Pardon The Interruption

[michaelm]

Maybe they'll start pulling the Subway ads that have Reggie walking up to a player, and the young player whines "I'll NEVER be a starter..."

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm......

That's art imitating life, ain't it? LOL!!!!

Man, you tripped me out for a minute... I didn't realize this post was the last post (word for word) in two different threads.. I kept going back and forth because I thought I was on the same thread for some reason even though I knew I'd clicked on different links...

 

[run-david-run]

Man, you tripped me out for a minute... I didn't realize this post was the last post (word for word) in two different threads.. I kept going back and forth because I thought I was on the same thread for some reason even though I knew I'd clicked on different links...

puff puff pass. didnt you learn anything in high school?

 

[DocBar]

I find it interesting that the Saints fans are now comparing him to Eric Metcalf. I was using the Metcalf comparison long before the NFL draft as an argument not to draft Bush when some here were comparing him to Barry Sanders, Gayle Sayers, etc.

Metcalf was a great comodity to have if you could afford him but we obviously could not as I mentioned in this thread below.

http://saintsreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2432

I was comparing him to metcalf also. IMO, Metcalf was a lot better.

 

[DocBar]

See, that's what's happening: Bush was perceived to be a threat in the first few weeks, so you saw teams practically putting all 11 men on him, or in his direction, and the Saints were rolling early.

Now, as time wears on...they won't put as much coverage or focus on him.

And even when he begins to get the ball in future games, as the focus is no longer on him, he still won't be producing.

They played him as decoy and he's never really been battle-tested at all.

We threw our guy (Mario) out there from day one, saying "This our starter. This is our guy."

Now, he's beginning to hit his stride. And Bush? Well, he's mired in mediocrity because they don't NEED him to do anything. They have a good back, a good QB, and a good set of WRs that are doing the job.

Bush, at some point, is going to get fed up and demand a trade...or demand that Deuce gets traded. It's going to be good TV.

What would Bush get fed up with? I think he enjoys being 2nd fiddle. He did it all the way thru college and says he doesn't mind sharing the backfield as a pro. He's got a ton of money and very little wear and tear on his body to this point. IMO, Bush might restructure his contract to accommodate Deuce. That's his ace in the hole.

 

[Seeing Red]

I'm not sure what "It" is, but it seems like Mario has it. His presence is being felt and when he dominates the whole team celebrates with him. Couldn't happen to a better guy and I'm glad we have him. Keep it up Mario!

 

[Wolf]

david Carr ... 27 rushes 87 yards 3.2 2 tds


Bush 87 rushes 207 yards 2.6 average zero tds


seriously though

lundy

74 rushes 309 yards long 35 and 1 td

but Duece is playing good, it would be hard to get Bush to beat him out this season..

DM 111 rushes 487 4.4 average with 5 tds

nothing wrong with DM

just going to make the rook earn his starting position.

 

[infantrycak]

His presence is being felt and when he dominates the whole team celebrates with him.

This is very telling IMO. If his teammates thought he was overrated and not worth the pick you wouldn't hear them on the radio near as enthusiastically endorsing him and they wouldn't celebrate and get fired up with him that way.

 

[Mr. B]

Well if any of you know Tom Benson (Cheap Ass Miser). You know that something will !!!! happen eventually. He isn't gonna keep paying those kinds of dollars. He never has and if you look at his history he has let go of some very talented players over money. Players the Saints needed. Also let go of some very good front office people whom didn't see things his way with the money or decisions.

All he was worried about up until Reggie Bush was selling out the state and moving to LA or SA. He will ride the Reggie thing for every cent it will bring him. If that means moving his best back in DM to keep the Reggie money coming in DM will be gone soon enough.

Tom Benson = Cockroach and should be squashed. The way he pranced and danced after the monday night win almost made me puke.

He will find a way to screw things up to get his almighty $$$. He always has. Maybe he will figure if he moves to LA with Reggie he will sell out there as well.

On another pointe maybe since I hear in the Rumor vine Arizona is interested in Pete Carrol, Reggie will demand a trade to them so he can play with Matt and Pete. You know James is all but about fed up with them already and is probably kicking himself for being greedy and going for the money instead of staying with Indy.

 

[Jwwillis]

spinning is just an artform

This would have been a legit situation..
we draft Bush.. N.O. took Mario.

I wonder what would be the spin.

Bush :with the Texans has no talent around him they are still with 2 wins.?

mario at N.O.? would they say Brees, Colston(m/s) and Payton are the real reason they are winning?

I honestly dont' think Mario would have gotten any praise from any team that drafted him.. Bush was the golden child.

Thing is .. isn't Lundry having a better season?

I know the kids in Indy and N.E. are having a better season than Bush

If Lundy is doing well for the Texans, Reggie would have done better. Just like DD, Lundy gets caught from behind. Can you imagine if D's had to key on Bush with our WR's? BUT, I've always been happy with the MW pick. We do not need a 1st round 50 million dollar HB. DE's are much tougher to find and last twice as long. We will get a 2nd or 3rd round HB in the off season for much less.

 

[TexasSportsFan4]

spinning is just an artform

This would have been a legit situation..
we draft Bush.. N.O. took Mario.

I wonder what would be the spin.

Bush :with the Texans has no talent around him they are still with 2 wins.?

mario at N.O.? would they say Brees, Colston(m/s) and Payton are the real reason they are winning?

I honestly dont' think Mario would have gotten any praise from any team that drafted him.. Bush was the golden child.

Thing is .. isn't Lundry having a better season?

I know the kids in Indy and N.E. are having a better season than Bush

Yep you are right. No matter where Mario went he wasn't going to be recognized nearly as much as Bush whether his team was winning or not.

Good points.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

If Lundy is doing well for the Texans, Reggie would have done better. Just like DD, Lundy gets caught from behind. Can you imagine if D's had to key on Bush with our WR's? BUT, I've always been happy with the MW pick. We do not need a 1st round 50 million dollar HB.

Well, I don't think your analysis of what Bush would bring to the team is correct.

The big problem with Bush is that he doesn't break tackles and he dances around too much trying to decide where to go. Teams wouldn't have to worry about catching him from behind because he wouldn't be ahead of them. I really think if we had Bush and Lundy on this team, Lundy would be more productive. Bush is running behind the same line as Deuce and Deuce is picking up good yardage. If a healthy DD was running behind this line and in this scheme, we'd be dominating teams on the ground.

 

[brewhaus]

Well, I don't think your analysis of what Bush would bring to the team is correct.

The big problem with Bush is that he doesn't break tackles and he dances around too much trying to decide where to go. Teams wouldn't have to worry about catching him from behind because he wouldn't be ahead of them. I really think if we had Bush and Lundy on this team, Lundy would be more productive. Bush is running behind the same line as Deuce and Deuce is picking up good yardage. If a healthy DD was running behind this line and in this scheme, we'd be dominating teams on the ground.

From what I have read (and I know stats don't tell the whole story) Lundy is doing better than Bush in all rushing catagories except Number of Carries.....Bush has more carries than Lundy.

 

[GP]

[/B]
What would Bush get fed up with? I think he enjoys being 2nd fiddle. He did it all the way thru college and says he doesn't mind sharing the backfield as a pro. He's got a ton of money and very little wear and tear on his body to this point. IMO, Bush might restructure his contract to accommodate Deuce. That's his ace in the hole.

We're talking about the same Reggie Bush. right?

I'm talking about the Reggie Bush that lost the Rose Bowl, was on the sideline watching LenDale White get the carries, and then was dissed by the Texans on draft day via a guy (Mario) who leapfrogged him to the No. 1 spot.

I'm talking about the Reggie Bush whose agent made it well-known that Reggie "deserved" No. 1 money even though he was the No. 2 pick.

I'm talking about the Reggie Bush who was looked upon by Saints fans and fans all over the world as the messiah for the Saints, a guy who could single-handedly re-build New Orleans with a football.

I'm talking about the Reggie Bush whose face and image and footage in a Saints uniform was plastered all over ESPN's opening credits, who was spoken of by 99% of the analysts as being unjustly skipped over by the Texans in what was a colossal mistake that would make the Texans look bad forever.

And I'm talking about the Reggie Bush who (A) Is not getting the carries that he ought to be getting because he splits time with Deuce, (B) Has not produced at all, other than a special teams TD, and (C) Who is not even the best ROOKIE on his team right now.

To me, and maybe I'm crazy...but the pouting is going to come at some point if Reggie feels he's not being "better utilized" by the Saints.

Even though the wins are coming each week, that actually hurts him because it further points to the idea that the Saints did not need him in the first place.

What team would trade for him right now? What has he done that indicates that it was a mistake for the other 30 teams to pass on trading UP for him?

Exactly. The NFL GMs who did not trade up for him are looking smarter as each weekend goes by. And New Orleans, IMO, is looking to be the desperate team that it was on draft day...it "felt" like the right pick, but think about the Saints with D'Brick on their team right now...protecting the blindside of Brees.

I'm just saying that this has the potential to be good TV if things keep rolling like they have. Maybe people disagree with me. That's cool. But I am loving that our rookie is the bonified starter AND that he's racking up sacks.

There are so many ingredients to this, it ought to be on Food Network.

 

[Texan_Bill]

We're talking about the same Reggie Bush. right?

I'm talking about the Reggie Bush that lost the Rose Bowl, was on the sideline watching LenDale White get the carries, and then was dissed by the Texans on draft day via a guy (Mario) who leapfrogged him to the No. 1 spot.

I'm talking about the Reggie Bush whose agent made it well-known that Reggie "deserved" No. 1 money even though he was the No. 2 pick.

I'm talking about the Reggie Bush who was looked upon by Saints fans and fans all over the world as the messiah for the Saints, a guy who could single-handedly re-build New Orleans with a football.

I'm talking about the Reggie Bush whose face and image and footage in a Saints uniform was plastered all over ESPN's opening credits, who was spoken of by 99% of the analysts as being unjustly skipped over by the Texans in what was a colossal mistake that would make the Texans look bad forever.

And I'm talking about the Reggie Bush who (A) Is not getting the carries that he ought to be getting because he splits time with Deuce, (B) Has not produced at all, other than a special teams TD, and (C) Who is not even the best ROOKIE on his team right now.

To me, and maybe I'm crazy...but the pouting is going to come at some point if Reggie feels he's not being "better utilized" by the Saints.

Even though the wins are coming each week, that actually hurts him because it further points to the idea that the Saints did not need him in the first place.

What team would trade for him right now? What has he done that indicates that it was a mistake for the other 30 teams to pass on trading UP for him?

Exactly. The NFL GMs who did not trade up for him are looking smarter as each weekend goes by. And New Orleans, IMO, is looking to be the desperate team that it was on draft day...it "felt" like the right pick, but think about the Saints with D'Brick on their team right now...protecting the blindside of Brees.

I'm just saying that this has the potential to be good TV if things keep rolling like they have. Maybe people disagree with me. That's cool. But I am loving that our rookie is the bonified starter AND that he's racking up sacks.

There are so many ingredients to this, it ought to be on Food Network.

Good post... Couldn't have said it better...

 

[bah007]

We're talking about the same Reggie Bush. right?

I'm talking about the Reggie Bush that lost the Rose Bowl, was on the sideline watching LenDale White get the carries, and then was dissed by the Texans on draft day via a guy (Mario) who leapfrogged him to the No. 1 spot.

I'm talking about the Reggie Bush whose agent made it well-known that Reggie "deserved" No. 1 money even though he was the No. 2 pick.

I'm talking about the Reggie Bush who was looked upon by Saints fans and fans all over the world as the messiah for the Saints, a guy who could single-handedly re-build New Orleans with a football.

I'm talking about the Reggie Bush whose face and image and footage in a Saints uniform was plastered all over ESPN's opening credits, who was spoken of by 99% of the analysts as being unjustly skipped over by the Texans in what was a colossal mistake that would make the Texans look bad forever.

And I'm talking about the Reggie Bush who (A) Is not getting the carries that he ought to be getting because he splits time with Deuce, (B) Has not produced at all, other than a special teams TD, and (C) Who is not even the best ROOKIE on his team right now.

To me, and maybe I'm crazy...but the pouting is going to come at some point if Reggie feels he's not being "better utilized" by the Saints.

Even though the wins are coming each week, that actually hurts him because it further points to the idea that the Saints did not need him in the first place.

What team would trade for him right now? What has he done that indicates that it was a mistake for the other 30 teams to pass on trading UP for him?

Exactly. The NFL GMs who did not trade up for him are looking smarter as each weekend goes by. And New Orleans, IMO, is looking to be the desperate team that it was on draft day...it "felt" like the right pick, but think about the Saints with D'Brick on their team right now...protecting the blindside of Brees.

I'm just saying that this has the potential to be good TV if things keep rolling like they have. Maybe people disagree with me. That's cool. But I am loving that our rookie is the bonified starter AND that he's racking up sacks.

There are so many ingredients to this, it ought to be on Food Network.

You are absolutely right.

Keep in mind that the Texans were entertaining trade offers for the #1 pick but NOBODY was interested because the only reason to trade up would be for Bush.

The media was pushing Bush as the greatest NFL player ever before he even got drafted, but the NFL teams pay talented scouts to do a better job than ESPN. They knew he was not worth the #1 so they didnt want to trade up for him.

 

[bah007]

The only person "worth" the #1 pick "talent" wise was Vince Young.

Mario was probably "worth" the #2 spot, but we didnt need or want VY, so we took what wanted, which is exactly what we needed.

I personally despise Bush because of the media hoopla surrounding him. I would never wish for anybody to get injured, but I do secretly hope he becomes the biggest bust in history.

Young was my favorite player in college football. But his game doesnt translate to the NFL that well. It will be another year or two before he is ready. We didnt need him. I hope he has a great career (except when he plays us).

I was for the Mario pick. I am still for it. He has become my favorite NFL player in just 8 games. He is going to be a monster & he will make the media eat crow someday.

 

[Mr. B]

Saints didn't need Reggie Bush, Saints didn't need Vince Young.

Reggie was taken cause as I posted earlier he was mega bucks in Bensons pocket. Paying $50 mil was chump change compared to what he will reap off of Bush regardless how he plays. I am sure Sean Payton could care less about Bush and might have gone with another player but the $$$$$ would never let that happen.

I will give Bush this though he may be sucking on the field but he gave the city a spark it really needed at a bad time.

All he will have to do is break one long gain or get an incredible touchdown run and all will be forgiven by the media and the spotlight will shine again on the man who would crush Jim Brown and Walter Payton.

B

 

[bah007]

Saints didn't need Reggie Bush, Saints didn't need Vince Young.

Reggie was taken cause as I posted earlier he was mega bucks in Bensons pocket. Paying $50 mil was chump change compared to what he will reap off of Bush regardless how he plays. I am sure Sean Payton could care less about Bush and might have gone with another player but the $$$$$ would never let that happen.

I will give Bush this though he may be sucking on the field but he gave the city a spark it really needed at a bad time.

All he will have to do is break one long gain or get an incredible touchdown run and all will be forgiven by the media and the spotlight will shine again on the man who would crush Jim Brown and Walter Payton.

B

Do you honestly think his name should even be put in the same sentence as Jim Brown or Walter Payton?

I was thinking more like KiJana Carter and Ryan Leaf.

 

[goodnews boy]

Do you honestly think his name should even be put in the same sentence as Jim Brown or Walter Payton?

I was thinking more like KiJana Carter and Ryan Leaf.

With the way he ran in college, I could see his name put next to Brown and Payton. But as we all know, great college players do not always become great Pro players

 

[The Pencil Neck]

With the way he ran in college, I could see his name put next to Brown and Payton. But as we all know, great college players do not always become great Pro players

Put his name next to KiJana Carter or... I don't know... Ron Dayne?

 

[Mr. B]

I don't think his name deserves to be put next to anyone. Especially Brown or Payton. I just used them off the top of my head. Until he has played a few years to see what he actually will do, then start comparing him. Same with all these rookies, until they have a few years under there belt they should get no big money or the ridiculous deals they are getting now.

But then again we all know that is not how things work today. When you have so many sponsers and whomever with there hand in the mix.

B

 

[thunderkyss]

Saints didn't need Reggie Bush, Saints didn't need Vince Young.

Reggie was taken cause as I posted earlier he was mega bucks in Bensons pocket. Paying $50 mil was chump change compared to what he will reap off of Bush regardless how he plays. I am sure Sean Payton could care less about Bush and might have gone with another player but the $$$$$ would never let that happen.

I will give Bush this though he may be sucking on the field but he gave the city a spark it really needed at a bad time.

All he will have to do is break one long gain or get an incredible touchdown run and all will be forgiven by the media and the spotlight will shine again on the man who would crush Jim Brown and Walter Payton.

B

Finally, someone from the BigEasy who is at least Honest about Reggie.........

 

[thunderkyss]

The only person "worth" the #1 pick "talent" wise was Vince Young.

Mario was probably "worth" the #2 spot, but we didnt need or want VY, so we took what wanted, which is exactly what we needed.

Get out of here........

What's the difference between #1 & #2?? Why is one guy worth $64 mil & another worth $60 mil.... & WTF is the difference??

How can one guy be worth the #2 & not the #1??


It's always been about who has the #1 pick, and what that team needs.

Have you ever seen a team with the #1 pick take a QB when they didn't need a QB?? Have you ever seen a team with the #1 pick take any position they didn't need??

Is it just a coincidence that the best player in the draft is always what the team with the #1 pick needs??

If Vince Young wasn't in this draft, and the Tennessee Titans had the #1 pick, don't you think they would have taken Lienart or maybe Cutler??

 

[bah007]

Get out of here........

What's the difference between #1 & #2?? Why is one guy worth $64 mil & another worth $60 mil.... & WTF is the difference??

How can one guy be worth the #2 & not the #1??


It's always been about who has the #1 pick, and what that team needs.

Have you ever seen a team with the #1 pick take a QB when they didn't need a QB?? Have you ever seen a team with the #1 pick take any position they didn't need??

Is it just a coincidence that the best player in the draft is always what the team with the #1 pick needs??

If Vince Young wasn't in this draft, and the Tennessee Titans had the #1 pick, don't you think they would have taken Lienart or maybe Cutler??

Chill out bro.

I was going by talent & potential regardless of who had the pick.

I already said that we didnt want or need VY.

I just feel that with talent & potential combined, he was "worth" more than any other player. That does not mean that the Texans should have drafted him.

 

[Insideop]

Well if any of you know Tom Benson (Cheap Ass Miser). You know that something will !!!! happen eventually. He isn't gonna keep paying those kinds of dollars. He never has and if you look at his history he has let go of some very talented players over money. Players the Saints needed. Also let go of some very good front office people whom didn't see things his way with the money or decisions.

All he was worried about up until Reggie Bush was selling out the state and moving to LA or SA. He will ride the Reggie thing for every cent it will bring him. If that means moving his best back in DM to keep the Reggie money coming in DM will be gone soon enough.

Tom Benson = Cockroach and should be squashed. The way he pranced and danced after the monday night win almost made me puke.
He will find a way to screw things up to get his almighty $$$. He always has. Maybe he will figure if he moves to LA with Reggie he will sell out there as well.

On another pointe maybe since I hear in the Rumor vine Arizona is interested in Pete Carrol, Reggie will demand a trade to them so he can play with Matt and Pete. You know James is all but about fed up with them already and is probably kicking himself for being greedy and going for the money instead of staying with Indy.

Mr.B, you feel about Benson the way most Houstonians feel about "bottom line bud." They sound like they're cut from the same cloth!

 

[Jwwillis]

Well, I don't think your analysis of what Bush would bring to the team is correct.

The big problem with Bush is that he doesn't break tackles and he dances around too much trying to decide where to go. Teams wouldn't have to worry about catching him from behind because he wouldn't be ahead of them. I really think if we had Bush and Lundy on this team, Lundy would be more productive. Bush is running behind the same line as Deuce and Deuce is picking up good yardage. If a healthy DD was running behind this line and in this scheme, we'd be dominating teams on the ground.

Pleaaase! My grandma could have run through some of those holes. Lundy's long runs have not been Earl Campbellish. I mean, I dont see Lundy breaking tackles all over the place. I knew someone was goning to actualy say Lundy is better for the system than Bush would have been but...naaaaa

 

[Jwwillis]

Saints didn't need Reggie Bush, Saints didn't need Vince Young.

Reggie was taken cause as I posted earlier he was mega bucks in Bensons pocket. Paying $50 mil was chump change compared to what he will reap off of Bush regardless how he plays. I am sure Sean Payton could care less about Bush and might have gone with another player but the $$$$$ would never let that happen.

I will give Bush this though he may be sucking on the field but he gave the city a spark it really needed at a bad time.

All he will have to do is break one long gain or get an incredible touchdown run and all will be forgiven by the media and the spotlight will shine again on the man who would crush Jim Brown and Walter Payton.

B

Forgiven by the media?? Hes all we freakin hear about....its absurd.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

Pleaaase! My grandma could have run through some of those holes. Lundy's long runs have not been Earl Campbellish. I mean, I dont see Lundy breaking tackles all over the place. I knew someone was goning to actualy say Lundy is better for the system than Bush would have been but...naaaaa

I'm not saying Lundy has been Earl Campbellish. He's been a decent back. But Bush hasn't even been a mediocre back so far. 11 rushes for -5 yards? Are you kidding me?

Bush has rushed a total of 81 times for 207 yards for 2.6 yards per carry; his longest run was 15 yards and he was covering up and looking like he was afraid he was going to get hit on that run. Behind that same line, Deuce has rushed 111 times for 487 yards for 4.4 ypc and a long run of 57 yards.

Whatever you might want to delude yourself into thinking, teams are not stacking the lines to stop Bush (an unproven rookie) MORE than they're stacking the lines to stop Deuce, a proven beast.

Payton has been doing everything he can to come up with ways to get Bush touches. But he has gotten very little for his efforts. There have been no big breakaway runs which was what was supposed to be Bush's signature.

How many guys could come into this league and get 2.6 yards per carry and 6.8 yards per catch and their coach keep trying to find ways to get them the ball? They could get that production from STECKER for crying out loud for much, much less money.

 

[Mysteryhunt]

dayne has been cut from many a team for much less than bush is producing so far. there is no rookie adjustment window for rookies at the rb position that are the 'cream of the crop rookies' caddy, ronnie brown, addai, maroney etc etc. they produce the secong they step onto the field. bush doesn't. look at the other highly touted rookie runners who similarly disnt produce and tell me if they suddenly got better.

the odds are stacking more and more against bush. i mean 8 games and he hasn't one run for 20 yards? every back and league at least can bust one once. and don't give me the punt return, CHAD STANLEY couldv'e taken that to the house with those holes.

 

[thunderkyss]

Chill out bro.

I was going by talent & potential regardless of who had the pick.

I already said that we didnt want or need VY.

I just feel that with talent & potential combined, he was "worth" more than any other player. That does not mean that the Texans should have drafted him.

So you don't think Lienart was worth the #1 pick last year??

did he all of a sudden get worse?? because everybody agrees he would have been the undisputed #1 pick last year. Even UT homers.

Even without VY in the '06 draft, Matt Lienart was not a lock for the #1 overall. I believe Mario & D'Brick are just as attractive, depending on who had the #1 pick. It is always based on need.


If we had taken Reggie with the #1 overall(which would have been really stupid, since he is a very, very good role player, and not a feature back) New Orleans wouldn't have given VY a second thought.... they would have taken Mario........ or maybe AJ Hawk.

If Vince wasn't in this draft, MattLienart or JayCutler would've been taken at least 7 spots earlier. Do they get better because VY isn't in the Draft, or did the teams between the #3 spot & the #10 spot just did not value a QB in the top 10??

If NYJ had traded up to the #2 spot, would they have taken the "only guy worth the #1 pick" (according to you) or would they have drafted Reggie Bush??

Which team would have drafted "the only guy worth the #1 overall" if they had traded up to the #1 spot??

I understand that Vince may have been the only guy you would consider at the #1 overall spot. Had I been the guy calling the shots for the Houston Texans, David Carr would be $8 million poorer than he is today, & I would have signed Vince before the ProBowl.

But to say, or even think that Vince is the only guy worthy of the #1 pick based on anything is a little out there..........

 

[thunderkyss]

Payton has been doing everything he can to come up with ways to get Bush touches. But he has gotten very little for his efforts. There have been no big breakaway runs which was what was supposed to be Bush's signature.

How many guys could come into this league and get 2.6 yards per carry and 6.8 yards per catch and their coach keep trying to find ways to get them the ball? They could get that production from STECKER for crying out loud for much, much less money.

So true... so true........

Bush is supposed to be dangerous in the open field. I'm not a Reggie Hater, & I'm excited the Saints are succeeding(I root for all the Gulf Coast teams), I don't want Reggie to fail.

I am so glad the city of NewOrleans is alive again, and a lot of that has to do with Reggie Bush. I've been waiting for him to "break out", and it just hasn't happened.

I've never sugar coated what I think about Reggie, & I fully expected him to do a lot of the things he did in college. But getting dropped behind the line of scrimmage, because he doesn't want to challenge the LBs on the edges is very, very disappointing.

I said as soon as they get the ball to Reggie in space, then Reggie will do his thang. 46 catches, & 312 yards later, I'm beggining to wonder. & he looks awfully average returning kicks.....

But, they did the same thing to my boy(Ricky Williams) the first two years he was in the league. JoeHorn & BooWilliams was making the D look stupid back then, but nothing like what we are seeing from Duece, Horn, Henderson, & the rookie sensation Colston.

 

[GP]

So you don't think Lienart was worth the #1 pick last year??

did he all of a sudden get worse?? because everybody agrees he would have been the undisputed #1 pick last year. Even UT homers.

Even without VY in the '06 draft, Matt Lienart was not a lock for the #1 overall. I believe Mario & D'Brick are just as attractive, depending on who had the #1 pick. It is always based on need.


If we had taken Reggie with the #1 overall(which would have been really stupid, since he is a very, very good role player, and not a feature back) New Orleans wouldn't have given VY a second thought.... they would have taken Mario........ or maybe AJ Hawk.

If Vince wasn't in this draft, MattLienart or JayCutler would've been taken at least 7 spots earlier. Do they get better because VY isn't in the Draft, or did the teams between the #3 spot & the #10 spot just did not value a QB in the top 10??

If NYJ had traded up to the #2 spot, would they have taken the "only guy worth the #1 pick" (according to you) or would they have drafted Reggie Bush??

Which team would have drafted "the only guy worth the #1 overall" if they had traded up to the #1 spot??

I understand that Vince may have been the only guy you would consider at the #1 overall spot. Had I been the guy calling the shots for the Houston Texans, David Carr would be $8 million poorer than he is today, & I would have signed Vince before the ProBowl.

But to say, or even think that Vince is the only guy worthy of the #1 pick based on anything is a little out there..........

I don't ever want to see you remark in your posts that you "back David Carr" or that you "support him" when I see you type what you did above.

You would have chosen to dump him. You would have drafted Vince Young.

So from now on, let's all be a bit more honest here and say what we really mean in our hearts. I am afraid that you are being a little flip-floppity in your statements about David. If the guy would not be on our team had you been making the calls, then how do you reconcile that with things you've said about David Carr regarding your support of him?

If you believe what you said, then you DON'T think David can be salvaged. Or is this particular post just how feel "today?"

Help me to understand how what you've said in the past is congruent with what you just said in your post (above, in the bolded text). I don't want to throw stones, but I'm a little confused with your wording of things from day-to-day around here.

 

[real]

I don't ever want to see you remark in your posts that you "back David Carr" or that you "support him" when I see you type what you did above.

You would have chosen to dump him. You would have drafted Vince Young.

I would have done the same thing....I would have dumped David as well...

But that doesn't mean I think he can't be a good QB...and that certainly doesn't mean I can't support him now....

 

[HOU-TEX]

I would have done the same thing....I would have dumped David as well...

But that doesn't mean I think he can't be a good QB...and that certainly doesn't mean I can't support him now....

Who would you have picked up for a replacement? Just curious. I liked VY in college, but for some reason I didn't want him here. Cutler OTOH, would've been....ah nevermind. I'm ecstatic with our draft class this year. I wouldn't change it for anything.

 

[real]

Who would you have picked up for a replacement? Just curious. I liked VY in college, but for some reason I didn't want him here. Cutler OTOH, would've been....ah nevermind. I'm ecstatic with our draft class this year. I wouldn't change it for anything.

I would have picked up Vince...

But in hindsight i'm happy with our draft...

 

[thunderkyss]

If you believe what you said, then you DON'T think David can be salvaged. Or is this particular post just how feel "today?"

Help me to understand how what you've said in the past is congruent with what you just said in your post (above, in the bolded text). I don't want to throw stones, but I'm a little confused with your wording of things from day-to-day around here.

I think David can be salvaged...... I think David has talent... I think David has more talent than Sage Rosenfels...... I think Gary Kubiak thinks he can salvage him. I believe Gary Kubiak has said David is our QB, and he will do what everything he can to help David experience success in this league.

If we are going to be talking about Sage should start a preseason game with our first team, or should start a regular season game so we can see how he performs with the first team, I'm going to say we are wasting our time, because Kubiak has already said David is our guy. It doesn't make sense to waste time "seeing" what our back up can do, because it doesn't matter. Winning games is not priority #1 for the Texans this year. Just like winning games is not, and never was a priority for the Tennessee Titans, and they shouldn't have put on that charade with Volek & Collins, and just tell their fans that Vince is going to start sometime this year, to prepare himself for next year.......... which is the same thing we are doing with David.

Except David is no rookie.

Again, I say David has the talent, and all the physical tools to be an Elite NFL QB..... but none of his supporters here think he needs to be elite, and half don't think he ever will be.. they'll be happy if David can be better than avg. which is fine, but I don't think we should have spent the money we have, including an $8 million bonus this year for a QB who has a top end somewhere below Elite.

If we're talking about doing the right thing...... yeah, we owe David to help him be a better QB.

If we're talking football is a business, and no one else would sink as much money into a QB, just to see if he can play..... then no.... we should've moved on.

I also don't think the Texans should pay the price to see if David has the mental fortitude to be Elite... you can blame coaches, you can blame lack of talent, but from my P.O.V. he has not improved any part of his game that he has had total control of. 43% of his passing yards are YAC of the reciever he is throwing the ball to. I wouldn't mind, if he was avg 11 yards or 13 yards, then our recievers were putting up a bunch of yards after that. But he's throwing 4 yard outs, and our recievers are having to break LineBacker tackles to get first downs. WRs aren't supposed to be physically challenging LBs. That's how they get hurt.



But I had/have no control in that decision. The Texans made it, and I've got to root for the Texans to succeed, and that means David has got to succeed. I will give credit where credit is due. when I see David improve his footwork, remain unphased while facing enormous pressure in the pocket, like the Washington game, I believe that was the game I gave him Kudos for that. I've given him Kudos for looking down field while taken sacks in several games, I gave him credit for challenging a defense in the Miami game.

At the same time, I blamed him & the offense for not staying on the field for the Philly game, for the Indy game, for the Washington game. I blame him for throwing passess that keep the LBs close to the LOS. I've blamed him for turnovers in the Indy game, the Washington game, the Dallas game, and the Tennessee game.

I have been going easy on him, because he is improving, as are the Texans. Only talking about David's bad points, when guys like you say it's unfair for David to be benched after "one bad game"..... or when another guy said the team would be alot better if the rest of the team would play as well as David... this, I believe is after the Washington game....... IIRC another 3 fumble game. & you can see the Defense sell out on the blitz after the first fumble, causing a second, then eventually a sack, killing the drive.

These people blame our defense for not being able to force a 3 & out in the first three games, but our offense couldn't get first downs. We are avg'ing 204 yards per game passing, and people think our passing game is working.. yet 21 teams in the league gives up over 200 ypg.

 

[beerlover]

not to discount the games of Football are different from Baseball but look at it from this angle: in Baseball if the starting pitcher is struggling (even if its Roger Clemons or Barry Zito) he will be pulled in the first couple innings because for one reason of another he does'nt have good stuff that particular start/game, no big deal put in your long inning relief & try to still win the game. does not mean the starter does not pitch again in his regular start, the same as always even if the relief does a great job and you wind up winning the game, ultimately its all about the team and the team winning

 

[thunderkyss]

Who would you have picked up for a replacement? Just curious. I liked VY in college, but for some reason I didn't want him here. Cutler OTOH, would've been....ah nevermind. I'm ecstatic with our draft class this year. I wouldn't change it for anything.

Without a doubt, looking back it's hard to argue what Kubiak has done.

I've mentioned before that after watching them play, I'd be scared, if our best DL was Weaver on one end, and Babin on the other. Or Peek, I wouldn't have liked that.

None of us liked the ordeal we went through finding a Tackle to actually produce on defense, and while I supported TJ, gave him the benefit of the doubt, and a clean slate and all that, I don't see him staying on this team for very long. If he is here next year, then a good DT is pretty hard to find.

Back in January, I had a different outlook of our team..... I looked through BattleRed glasses, and saw Babin, TJ, Buchannon and Greenwood as players that would succeed in a 4-3....... so I would have taken Vince, and not looked back.

The only way I see Babin & Peek staying on this team, is if they make the switch to SAM, and work their tails off to be damn fine LBs...... otherwise, I don't see much a future for either in the NFL.

In short... David is exceeding my expectations..... but I don't like him, or his style of football....... I'm happy about that .

Babin, Peek, GreenWood, Buchannon, Dunta are all disappointing me right now, and I'm not too happy about that.

I wouldn't mind seeing how Babin would do at MLB either. Nothing against the Rookie, but we need to get Greenwood off the field.

 

[HOU-TEX]

Babin, Peek, GreenWood, Buchannon, Dunta are all disappointing me right now, and I'm not too happy about that.

I wouldn't mind seeing how Babin would do at MLB either. Nothing against the Rookie, but we need to get Greenwood off the field.

LOL! You forgot the sarcasm smiley after this little quote.

D-Roy has become a fixture at the Mike position. Why fix something that's not broke? I understand Greenwood has been below average since he's been here, but Babin?? Is he your brother or something? Peek, Babin, Greenwood and Orr: at least one if not more will be gone in the offseason. Let's see how the remainder of the year pans out before we make any drastic decisions? Babin!! You're hilarious TK

 

[thunderkyss]

Let's see how the remainder of the year pans out before we make any drastic decisions? Babin!! You're hilarious TK

hehe..... I try.....

Not saying we should throw him out there in a game and see what happens.

I like Babin & Peek enough to try to find them a spot on this team. I'd run it by them..... try it out in practice.... if it doesn't work out, nothing lost... they're playing with the second team in practice anyway, so it won't be taking anything away from Demeco.

If they aren't a better option at SAM than Orr is.... then we are running out of spots for them.

I think Meco will be a stud regardless where we put him..... I'm not worried about him losing his "leadership" status with our D... he'll more than likely still be the man.

 

[HOU-TEX]

hehe..... I try.....

Not saying we should throw him out there in a game and see what happens.

I like Babin & Peek enough to try to find them a spot on this team. I'd run it by them..... try it out in practice.... if it doesn't work out, nothing lost... they're playing with the second team in practice anyway, so it won't be taking anything away from Demeco.

If they aren't a better option at SAM than Orr is.... then we are running out of spots for them.

I think Meco will be a stud regardless where we put him..... I'm not worried about him losing his "leadership" status with our D... he'll more than likely still be the man.

Wong should be ready to go Sunday from what Kub said. I'd like to see him get some good PT throughout the remainder of the season. We still need to pick up some LB help in the offseason. Greenwood=overrated, Orr=should've been a DE/OLB in 3-4, Wong=aging

 

[GP]

I think David can be salvaged...... I think David has talent... I think David has more talent than Sage Rosenfels...... I think Gary Kubiak thinks he can salvage him. I believe Gary Kubiak has said David is our QB, and he will do what everything he can to help David experience success in this league.

If we are going to be talking about Sage should start a preseason game with our first team, or should start a regular season game so we can see how he performs with the first team, I'm going to say we are wasting our time, because Kubiak has already said David is our guy. It doesn't make sense to waste time "seeing" what our back up can do, because it doesn't matter. Winning games is not priority #1 for the Texans this year. Just like winning games is not, and never was a priority for the Tennessee Titans, and they shouldn't have put on that charade with Volek & Collins, and just tell their fans that Vince is going to start sometime this year, to prepare himself for next year.......... which is the same thing we are doing with David.

Except David is no rookie.

Again, I say David has the talent, and all the physical tools to be an Elite NFL QB..... but none of his supporters here think he needs to be elite, and half don't think he ever will be.. they'll be happy if David can be better than avg. which is fine, but I don't think we should have spent the money we have, including an $8 million bonus this year for a QB who has a top end somewhere below Elite.

If we're talking about doing the right thing...... yeah, we owe David to help him be a better QB.

If we're talking football is a business, and no one else would sink as much money into a QB, just to see if he can play..... then no.... we should've moved on.

I also don't think the Texans should pay the price to see if David has the mental fortitude to be Elite... you can blame coaches, you can blame lack of talent, but from my P.O.V. he has not improved any part of his game that he has had total control of. 43% of his passing yards are YAC of the reciever he is throwing the ball to. I wouldn't mind, if he was avg 11 yards or 13 yards, then our recievers were putting up a bunch of yards after that. But he's throwing 4 yard outs, and our recievers are having to break LineBacker tackles to get first downs. WRs aren't supposed to be physically challenging LBs. That's how they get hurt.



But I had/have no control in that decision. The Texans made it, and I've got to root for the Texans to succeed, and that means David has got to succeed. I will give credit where credit is due. when I see David improve his footwork, remain unphased while facing enormous pressure in the pocket, like the Washington game, I believe that was the game I gave him Kudos for that. I've given him Kudos for looking down field while taken sacks in several games, I gave him credit for challenging a defense in the Miami game.

At the same time, I blamed him & the offense for not staying on the field for the Philly game, for the Indy game, for the Washington game. I blame him for throwing passess that keep the LBs close to the LOS. I've blamed him for turnovers in the Indy game, the Washington game, the Dallas game, and the Tennessee game.

I have been going easy on him, because he is improving, as are the Texans. Only talking about David's bad points, when guys like you say it's unfair for David to be benched after "one bad game"..... or when another guy said the team would be alot better if the rest of the team would play as well as David... this, I believe is after the Washington game....... IIRC another 3 fumble game. & you can see the Defense sell out on the blitz after the first fumble, causing a second, then eventually a sack, killing the drive.

These people blame our defense for not being able to force a 3 & out in the first three games, but our offense couldn't get first downs. We are avg'ing 204 yards per game passing, and people think our passing game is working.. yet 21 teams in the league gives up over 200 ypg.

Regarding your text (which I have bolded above):

That's not me, TK.

I said he needed to be benched. And I said that a few others ALSO needed to be benched. Nobody's gonna' find any of my posts that say I think he shouldn't have been benched.

I stay pretty concise and to-the-point with my observations about the team and how David Carr pertains to our team.

Your posts, on the other hand, might (key word being "might") be seen as day-to-day window dressing: The products for sale, the ones in the window, seem to change pretty regularly.

I gotta' be honest here: I didn't read your entire post (above) because there's no point in it. I know you have your opinion, and that's cool. But when it takes me 10 minutes to read your "real" David Carr stance....when I've seen other posts by you that contradict it or just flat-out confuse me...it only makes me shake my head more.

I think you desire to see David succeed. I just think you don't think he "can." And it's understandable (if that IS the case) due to the long 4 years that he's been unbearable to watch. It's a long stretch of time for us to use as an evaluation tool, and there's not much hope that the complete transformation will happen (or at least happen with him as a Texan).

(sigh)

Winning makes everything easier, don't it?

 

[Jwwillis]

I'm not saying Lundy has been Earl Campbellish. He's been a decent back. But Bush hasn't even been a mediocre back so far. 11 rushes for -5 yards? Are you kidding me?

Bush has rushed a total of 81 times for 207 yards for 2.6 yards per carry; his longest run was 15 yards and he was covering up and looking like he was afraid he was going to get hit on that run. Behind that same line, Deuce has rushed 111 times for 487 yards for 4.4 ypc and a long run of 57 yards.

Whatever you might want to delude yourself into thinking, teams are not stacking the lines to stop Bush (an unproven rookie) MORE than they're stacking the lines to stop Deuce, a proven beast.

Payton has been doing everything he can to come up with ways to get Bush touches. But he has gotten very little for his efforts. There have been no big breakaway runs which was what was supposed to be Bush's signature.

How many guys could come into this league and get 2.6 yards per carry and 6.8 yards per catch and their coach keep trying to find ways to get them the ball? They could get that production from STECKER for crying out loud for much, much less money.

All im saying is Bush would have done better to this point in Kubiaks system than Lundy has done so far or Bush has done with the Saints. I say this because Lundys big runs have come through large holes. Bush isnt going to get outside anymore than Lundy has on NFL D's, but Bush can make more happen in the open field once he's cleared the line. The one-cut style is only to get past the line, after that it's individual moves to get more. I think finding ways to get Reggie the ball is difficult because he isnt a full time HB. If he got the rock 25-35 times a game as a full time back perhaps he might be doing better. BUT, no way he or ANY RB is worth 50mill to the Texans.

 

[thunderkyss]

I gotta' be honest here: I didn't read your entire post (above) because there's no point in it. I know you have your opinion, and that's cool. But when it takes me 10 minutes to read your "real" David Carr stance....when I've seen other posts by you that contradict it or just flat-out confuse me...it only makes me shake my head more.

I think you desire to see David succeed. I just think you don't think he "can." And it's understandable (if that IS the case) due to the long 4 years that he's been unbearable to watch. It's a long stretch of time for us to use as an evaluation tool, and there's not much hope that the complete transformation will happen (or at least happen with him as a Texan).

(sigh)

Winning makes everything easier, don't it?

Abridged version......... I haven't attacked David Carr..... I haven't said Carr sucks........

All I said is that I wouldn't have given him $8 million to play for the Houston Texans.

I love Joey Harrington, but I think leaving Detroit was the best thing that could've happened for him. I love Culpepper..... I don't believe he should've stayed in Minnesota....

It might suck that I like those guys more than I like our guy. Or that I like Peyton Manning more than I like our guy.

But tell me....... do you think we have the best running backs in the league??

 

[GP]

Abridged version......... I haven't attacked David Carr..... I haven't said Carr sucks........

All I said is that I wouldn't have given him $8 million to play for the Houston Texans.

I love Joey Harrington, but I think leaving Detroit was the best thing that could've happened for him. I love Culpepper..... I don't believe he should've stayed in Minnesota....

It might suck that I like those guys more than I like our guy. Or that I like Peyton Manning more than I like our guy.

But tell me....... do you think we have the best running backs in the league??

That's like saying: "I didn't break up with my girlfriend because I think she's ________ or she's _________. I just broke up with her because I wanted to."

Look, if you say you'd dump him...then you're saying that you'd dump him. Nobody breaks up with a girl because they woke up one morning and just felt like it. There's a history there, a set of tangibles that have compounded enough toforce you to sever the relationship.

And thus you'd have to dump Carr for SOME reason or another. So why would you dump him? You said you "don't think he sucks" so why would you dump a guy you don't think is sucky?

That's where I cannot figure this out. You release a guy because he isn't working out. You're saying that he DOESN'T suck, so why would you release him?

In essence then, you DO think he sucks. Because if he didn't suck, he'd be on your team. You said you wouldn't pay him $8 mill. Well, you gotta' pay someone $8 mill (or thereabouts) to be a starter for an NFL team. Who is it? And why would they be more worthy than the guy who's taken the beat down for four seasons under a bad coaching staff? I'll tell you why: Because you really DO think he sucks, and you want someone else because ANYBODY else is better than him (in your mind).

This is the sort of thing that boggles my mind: You say he doesn't suck, but he ain't getting your money, either. Sounds fishy to me.

Still not sure, TK. Still not sure about the reasoning here...

 

[The Pencil Neck]

All im saying is Bush would have done better to this point in Kubiaks system than Lundy has done so far or Bush has done with the Saints. I say this because Lundys big runs have come through large holes. Bush isnt going to get outside anymore than Lundy has on NFL D's, but Bush can make more happen in the open field once he's cleared the line. The one-cut style is only to get past the line, after that it's individual moves to get more. I think finding ways to get Reggie the ball is difficult because he isnt a full time HB. If he got the rock 25-35 times a game as a full time back perhaps he might be doing better. BUT, no way he or ANY RB is worth 50mill to the Texans.

Coming in, everyone more or less agreed that he wasn't going to be an every down back. He might have been able to make more on those runs through big holes than Lundy but he would have gotten less on the runs with very little daylight. And there's a question on whether he would have been patient enough to choose the right hole sometimes as well; I think he spends a lot of time juking in the hole and I think Kubiak wasn't sure he'd be able to break him of that habit.

My knock on Bush is that he's Sanders-like. You have to be willing to take a big number of negative yard runs for 1 or 2 big, exciting plays per game. That's just a drive killer and it's why the Lions were never particularly successful with Sanders. And, you have to feed the guy the ball a LOT to get those big runs and I'm not sure Bush is durable enough for that.

The Saints now have a ton of money locked into the running back position. I expect that to cause problems further on down the line.

 

[thunderkyss]

Still not sure, TK. Still not sure about the reasoning here...

Good points..... GP..... I feel like I should be laying on a sofa.

I don't like his game. I don't like his dink & dunk style..... he's probably waiting setting up the defense, waiting for the OL to give him time to find the wideopen reciever.... like the third play of the Washington game(except that was created by the bootleg) You can win games like that..... you could probably go to the SuperBowl like that.

I don't like MichaelVicks game.. even though his style of play got his team to the NFC championship. Even though he threw 4 TDs in a game this year, and 3 TDs in the following game.

I don't think Vick sucks. But I wouldn't pay him $8 million to be on this team.

I don't think Carr sucks. But I wouldn't pay him $8 million to be on this team.

If I were a Falcon fan, I'd root for the falcons to win. I'd be mad as heck, if Vick was leaving the pocket before the play had time to develop. I'd be mad as heck, if it's 3rd & 24, and Vick takes off on a 23 yard run.

Kubiak made the decision to keep Carr. That's fine. I can understand the decision. Not the decision I would have made...... I understand it doesn't matter what I would have done. I'm fine with that.

I'll continue rooting for the Texans, and I'll continue to hope David proves me wrong.

 

[trutexan02]

All im saying is Bush would have done better to this point in Kubiaks system than Lundy has done so far or Bush has done with the Saints. I say this because Lundys big runs have come through large holes. Bush isnt going to get outside anymore than Lundy has on NFL D's, but Bush can make more happen in the open field once he's cleared the line. The one-cut style is only to get past the line, after that it's individual moves to get more. I think finding ways to get Reggie the ball is difficult because he isnt a full time HB. If he got the rock 25-35 times a game as a full time back perhaps he might be doing better. BUT, no way he or ANY RB is worth 50mill to the Texans.

He rarely, if ever, got he ball that many times at USC, yet he produced. Why not now? Because the PAC 10 isn't an elite conference. The NFL is full of elite players and coaches. He will suceed and be better and that will come with maturation.
Hope the Saints loaded that contract on the back end...

 

[banned1976]

I'm a native Houstonian living in Minnesota. I was constantly ridiculed for being a Texan fan because we didn't take Bush. For the entire pre-season and the first 4 weeks of the regular season the Viking fans were unmerciful. Now they say nothing and I kept an ace in the deck for pay-back; Laurence Maroney. Played for the Golden Gophers and the Vikings fans thought for sure Minnesota would take him. Now, if the Texans play a bad game and the Viking fans are opting to harrass me, I can slip Maroney into the conversation. The bantering is all in good fun but I am incredibly happy that this appears to be working out for us and I don't have to defend the pick anymore.

Thank you Mario and thank you Maroney.