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P-Burnt gets 8.5 Million contract with the Lions

N

nunusguy

Hall of Fame
The Detroit Lions continued to upgrade their tattered secondary by reaching a two-year agreement with Tampa Bay Buccaneers cornerback Phillip Buchanon.

The 5-foot-11, 186-pound Buchanon agreed to a two-year, $8.5 million contract, according to a source. The Bucs were trying to re-sign him. Earlier Wednesday, the Bucs agreed to a three-year, $8 million deal with Falcons defensive tackle Grady Jackson.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3953165
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I dunno, how does this guy stay in the league ? Just another example of how valuable CBs are, apparently any CBs.
 
When you're young, all you need are good measurements. Once you're getting up there, all you need is one or two good seasons under your belt. People will forget the one time you played two handed touch football with the Steelers.
 
nunusguy said:
The Detroit Lions continued to upgrade their tattered secondary by reaching a two-year agreement with Tampa Bay Buccaneers cornerback Phillip Buchanon.

The 5-foot-11, 186-pound Buchanon agreed to a two-year, $8.5 million contract, according to a source. The Bucs were trying to re-sign him. Earlier Wednesday, the Bucs agreed to a three-year, $8 million deal with Falcons defensive tackle Grady Jackson.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3953165
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I dunno, how does this guy stay in the league ? Just another example of how valuable CBs are, apparently any CBs.
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Its like left handed pitchers! I heard Florio this am say thats not out of line for a CB, even a crappy one. Between the market falling again and hearing P-Burnt is getting that kind of money I really feel as if the world is off its axis.
 
How can we make the worst team ever even worse? :thinking:
They sure better use him in the right, specific way, or they will have done just that.
 
He played fine once he left Houston so that's got to say something for what we were doing with him here. Is he a great CB? Of course not. Does he merit (in hindsight) his draft position? Nope. Is he worth that money in the NFL if he plays like he did for Tampa Bay? Absolutely.

We brought Buchanon in to develop but forgot that our coaching staff was utterly incapable of developing anyone and in fact routinely "down-coached" free agents who appeared to get worse right before our eyes. During the C&C years players came to Houston to get overpaid as their careers died. Buchanon was fortunate to escape that.
 
Kinda makes 4.5 mil over three years for David Anderson seem a little less cuckoo, doesn't it?
 
Hervoyel said:
He played fine once he left Houston so that's got to say something for what we were doing with him here. Is he a great CB? Of course not. Does he merit (in hindsight) his draft position? Nope. Is he worth that money in the NFL if he plays like he did for Tampa Bay? Absolutely.

We brought Buchanon in to develop but forgot that our coaching staff was utterly incapable of developing anyone and in fact routinely "down-coached" free agents who appeared to get worse right before our eyes. During the C&C years players came to Houston to get overpaid as their careers died. Buchanon was fortunate to escape that.
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Well said. That coaching staff couldn't develop players; potential never changed to effective play. I wonder how some careers would have been different if they hadn't gone through the Texans at the exact time when the player needed better coaching.
 
Runner said:
Well said. That coaching staff couldn't develop players; potential never changed to effective play. I wonder how some careers would have been different if they hadn't gone through the Texans at the exact time when the player needed better coaching.
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It also could be the system. P Burnt fit the Tampa 2 better than man or bump and run (since he was afraid of contact).
 
Specnatz said:
It also could be the system. P Burnt fit the Tampa 2 better than man or bump and run (since he was afraid of contact).
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There were a a lot more coaching failures than just P-Buc. I think that inept coaching was the root cause of the loser attitude that the team might have finally exorcised late last year.

I know this isn't popular around here, but if the coaching staff was a 2 on a scale of 10, I'd give Casserly a 5 relative to them. They ruined any talent he did happen to bring in.
 
Runner said:
There were a a lot more coaching failures than just P-Buc. I think that inept coaching was the root cause of the loser attitude that the team might have finally exorcised late last year.

I know this isn't popular around here, but if the coaching staff was a 2 on a scale of 10, I'd give Casserly a 5 relative to them. They ruined any talent he did happen to bring in.
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Whether people want to admit it or not, Casserly was responsible for our most successful draft in franchise history. I'm not trying to make excuses for the guy or excuse the results of alot of his decisions, just giving the guy credit for a heck of a draft.
 
Specnatz said:
It also could be the system. P Burnt fit the Tampa 2 better than man or bump and run (since he was afraid of contact).
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I realize that the Cover-2 they ran in TB didn't reguire the kind of physical player that the Texans were looking for in the more Man oriented coverage they wanted from their corners here in Houston.
But he's a defensive football player who is expected to make tackles from time to time, and I'm still surprised that teams are willing to shell out millions of dollars for him since he obviously has an utter aversion for contact, unless he can some how cover receivers like Dieon Saners did, and I don't think he can. He is a reasonable capable punt returner, but beyond that I don't get it ?
 
Carr Bombed said:
Whether people want to admit it or not, Casserly was responsible for our most successful draft in franchise history. I'm not trying to make excuses for the guy or excuse the results of alot of his decisions, just giving the guy credit for a heck of a draft.
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Which draft are you referring to? If it is the Mario draft, the answer would be ummm, no on giving Casserly credit until the 4th round where he convinced Kubiak to take OD. That story tells you exactly who was in control of that draft.

nunusguy said:
I realize that the Cover-2 they ran in TB didn't reguire the kind of physical player that the Texans were looking for in the more Man oriented coverage they wanted from their corners here in Houston.
But he's a defensive football player who is expected to make tackles from time to time, and I'm still surprised that teams are willing to shell out millions of dollars for him since he obviously has an utter aversion for contact, unless he can some how cover receivers like Dieon Saners did, and I don't think he can. He is a reasonable capable punt returner, but beyond that I don't get it ?
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He has played much more physically in Tampa.
 
nunusguy said:
I realize that the Cover-2 they ran in TB didn't reguire the kind of physical player that the Texans were looking for in the more Man oriented coverage they wanted from their corners here in Houston.
But he's a defensive football player who is expected to make tackles from time to time, and I'm still surprised that teams are willing to shell out millions of dollars for him since he obviously has an utter aversion for contact, unless he can some how cover receivers like Dieon Saners did, and I don't think he can. He is a reasonable capable punt returner, but beyond that I don't get it ?
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It's quite possible that Texans fans who he has betrayed and personally offended rate him more harshly than less personally invested talent evaluators.
 
Runner said:
It's quite possible that Texans fans who he has betrayed and personally offended rate him more harshly than less personally invested talent evaluators.
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But it's probably impossible for any Texan fan to be as critical of him as his own teammate Dunta Robinson was on the sidelines moments after P-Burnts pathetic non-play, non-tackle of Steeler Willie Parker as the back approached his area of the EZ. I never saw a scholastic player wimp-out on contact like that, let alone in college. And this was an "NFL-football player" (allegedly).
 
Carr Bombed said:
Whether people want to admit it or not, Casserly was responsible for our most successful draft in franchise history. I'm not trying to make excuses for the guy or excuse the results of alot of his decisions, just giving the guy credit for a heck of a draft.
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I don't think "responsible" is the right word. "Involved in", I could agree to. But he wasn't solely responsible for that draft and I don't think he had a big hand in it.

This coaching staff definitely does a better job of developing the players it gets but I think we're also drafting our players better. Casserly didn't have that great a history drafting in Washington, either.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
I don't think "responsible" is the right word. "Involved in", I could agree to. But he wasn't solely responsible for that draft and I don't think he had a big hand in it.

This coaching staff definitely does a better job of developing the players it gets but I think we're also drafting our players better. Casserly didn't have that great a history drafting in Washington, either.
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Yeah, you're right that's the wrong word, but there aren't many G.M.s in this league that have absolute power anyways.....it's usually a combined effort. Casserly was involved and I don't think this board wants to give him any credit. Who's to say him letting Capers' be involved didn't lead to alot of his crappy choices.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
I don't think "responsible" is the right word. "Involved in", I could agree to. But he wasn't solely responsible for that draft and I don't think he had a big hand in it.

This coaching staff definitely does a better job of developing the players it gets but I think we're also drafting our players better. Casserly didn't have that great a history drafting in Washington, either.
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Casserly wasn't responsible for all the busts either. He was only involved in them! :specnatz:
 
Runner said:
There were a a lot more coaching failures than just P-Buc. I think that inept coaching was the root cause of the loser attitude that the team might have finally exorcised late last year.

I know this isn't popular around here, but if the coaching staff was a 2 on a scale of 10, I'd give Casserly a 5 relative to them. They ruined any talent he did happen to bring in.
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Was not disagreeing with you but adding to. As far as it not being popular, I think most have signed on to this thinking. Along with crappy drafting of talent that did not fit and real crappy trades.
 
76Texan said:
Casserly wasn't responsible for all the busts either. He was only involved in them! :specnatz:
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Yeah, that's what my second paragraph there was addressing. He may have had some good drafts with the Texans but Capers screwed him by either not developing the players correction OR by lobbying for other players at times. The thing is that, if you include his years in Washington, Casserly had been involved with a lot of bad drafts prior to that good one so Casserly seems to be a fairly common denominator when it comes to bad drafts.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
Yeah, that's what my second paragraph there was addressing. He may have had some good drafts with the Texans but Capers screwed him by either not developing the players correction OR by lobbying for other players at times. The thing is that, if you include his years in Washington, Casserly had been involved with a lot of bad drafts prior to that good one so Casserly seems to be a fairly common denominator when it comes to bad drafts.
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I've studied his records with the Skins.
Pretty much the same thing as with the Texans here.
Fans always want to have a scape goat! :)
 
nunusguy said:
But it's probably impossible for any Texan fan to be as critical of him as his own teammate Dunta Robinson was on the sidelines moments after P-Burnts pathetic non-play, non-tackle of Steeler Willie Parker as the back approached his area of the EZ. I never saw a scholastic player wimp-out on contact like that, let alone in college. And this was an "NFL-football player" (allegedly).
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Wait a minute! I thought Dunta's opinion was no longer respected here either since he complained about being franchised. The gall! :)

I don't think it follows that every time a player gets lit up on the sidelines by another player that he sucks forevermore.

Besides, I think Andre Johnson still thinks highly of Buchanon. How would that fit in?
 
Runner said:
Wait a minute! I thought Dunta's opinion was no longer respected here either since he complained about being franchised. The gall! :)

I don't think it follows that every time a player gets lit up on the sidelines by another player that he sucks forevermore.

Besides, I think Andre Johnson still thinks highly of Buchanon. How would that fit in?
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They did go to college together and just because you like someone does not mean that they can play worth a damn. AJ does not seem the type to rip someone openly.
 
Runner said:
Wait a minute! I thought Dunta's opinion was no longer respected here either since he complained about being franchised. The gall! :)

I don't think it follows that every time a player gets lit up on the sidelines by another player that he sucks forevermore.

Besides, I think Andre Johnson still thinks highly of Buchanon. How would that fit in?
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That's just ties from "The U", nothing more. (I can almost hear "glory days" playing in my mind)

We still love Dunta, but he was being unrealistic for someone coming off major surgery AND not back to even 90% by the end of last season. P-Burnt has had multiple chances to show that he could be an effective player and live up to his draft position, he hasn't done it yet!
 
Specnatz said:
They did go to college together and just because you like someone does not mean that they can play worth a damn. AJ does not seem the type to rip someone openly.
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I don't use "thinks highly of" synonymously with "likes". More like respects him as a player.

I don't think a public display of emotion in the heat of the moment necessarily is the same as a person's more considered opinion either. Dunta may or may not think P-Buc sucks, but his one outburst carries a lot of weight around here. It even overrides Buchannon's success on the field since he left. As long as it bolsters a particular viewpoint, those 30 seconds seem to trump all else.
 
Runner said:
I don't use "thinks highly of" synonymously with "likes". More like respects him as a player.

I don't think a public display of emotion in the heat of the moment necessarily is the same as a person's more considered opinion either. Dunta may or may not think P-Buc sucks, but his one outburst carries a lot of weight around here. It even overrides Buchannon's success on the field since he left. As long as it bolsters a particular viewpoint, those 30 seconds seem to trump all else.
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I am not in that line of thinking, I just think you can have a scheme that fits a players style and there are schemes that would make the player look bad. Like I said about the Tampa 2 versus man coverage.
 
disaacks3 said:
That's just ties from "The U", nothing more. (I can almost hear "glory days" playing in my mind)

We still love Dunta, but he was being unrealistic for someone coming off major surgery AND not back to even 90% by the end of last season. P-Burnt has had multiple chances to show that he could be an effective player and live up to his draft position, he hasn't done it yet!
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So what if he doesn't live up to his draft position? Many players don't and are still good players. The draft position is set by someone else any way.

If he's not "great" or whatever his draft position specifes, that doesn't mean he sucks. He might still be pretty good. I'll take a pretty good player that doesn't meet first round expectations over a seventh rounder that performs exactly at that level anytime.
 
Runner said:
So what if he doesn't live up to his draft position? Many players don't and are still good players. The draft position is set by someone else any way.

If he's not "great" or whatever his draft position specifes, that doesn't mean he sucks. He might still be pretty good. I'll take a pretty good player that doesn't meet first round expectations over a seventh rounder that performs exactly at that level anytime.
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Agreed, but we were talking about P-Buc weren't we? :sarcasm:
 
Various thoughts...

Two draft picks against one good play (tip in the Browns game) = bust

No way he is 5'11"

He will be exposed playing for the Lions--he was adequate for the Tampa 2 system.

NFL is all about fit and scheme and opportunity and quality coaching and players. Few guys can succeed no matter how sorry their situation or how poorly it fits their skills.
 
Hervoyel said:
We brought Buchanon in to develop but forgot that our coaching staff was utterly incapable of developing anyone...
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For the cost of 2nd & 3rd round picks, you should get an immediate producer. Not a project to develop. P-Bust was a horrible acquisition for a panicky organization. He was a cover corner who couldn't cover. I don't want it to seem as if I'm giving then DB coach Jon Hoke a pass on this debacle. He's the guy who pushed for P-Bust. Just that a 4th year, 1st round CB shouldn't need to be developed.

Buyer beware, Lions.
 
Lucky said:
For the cost of 2nd & 3rd round picks, you should get an immediate producer. Not a project to develop. P-Bust was a horrible acquisition for a panicky organization. He was a cover corner who couldn't cover. I don't want it to seem as if I'm giving then DB coach Jon Hoke a pass on this debacle. He's the guy who pushed for P-Bust. Just that a 4th year, 1st round CB shouldn't need to be developed.

Buyer beware, Lions.
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All absolutely true, and yet he has played much better since leaving Houston which reflects on both him and our former coaching staff.
 
Lucky said:
For the cost of 2nd & 3rd round picks, you should get an immediate producer. Not a project to develop. P-Bust was a horrible acquisition for a panicky organization. He was a cover corner who couldn't cover. I don't want it to seem as if I'm giving then DB coach Jon Hoke a pass on this debacle. He's the guy who pushed for P-Bust. Just that a 4th year, 1st round CB shouldn't need to be developed.
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Or taught how to tackle.
 
Texans_Chick said:
Various thoughts...

Two draft picks against one good play (tip in the Browns game) = bust

No way he is 5'11"

He will be exposed playing for the Lions--he was adequate for the Tampa 2 system.

NFL is all about fit and scheme and opportunity and quality coaching and players. Few guys can succeed no matter how sorry their situation or how poorly it fits their skills.
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Sounds familiar.
 
P-Buc was a bust in Houston and probably average over his career. An average NFL career is OK in my book. Heck, a below average career of 6-8 years isn't that bad given the few number of players that make it that far.

Lucky said:
For the cost of 2nd & 3rd round picks, you should get an immediate producer.
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Like his draft position, he didn't set his price - the Texans did. That was a team mistake.

The funny thing is, as I heard it P-Buc was one of the few players that both the front office and the coaching staff had to have. Most of the time those two sides were butting heads; for instance Jason Babin was all coaching staff and Casserly was ordered to hire him. There were other players that Casserly chose that the coaches didn't particularly want.
 
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