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Our Running Game........

Our run game was ineffective because we didn't have a pass game that kept the D honest. I can accept the "game plan" for this particular game.......because we won. But I am not naive enough to believe that will work with an opposing team with a better balanced D and halfway decent O. I hope that Kubiak does not give way to naivete and a post game "It's on me" conference.
 
I agree, but i don't "think" what we saw today was the game plan... When Yates came in, Kubiak had him throwing it and they got three points out of it... He just reeled him in come the 2nd half just to be safe...

Seeing it was a weak offense we were going up against I'm okay with it..but you're right, against a team with a good offense we've got to try to score..

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They knew 10 points was an insurmountable lead for Jax. Was very smart to let him run a quick no huddle at the 2 minute mark because the jags had to expect them to let the half end. Got their cheapy points and rode the wave.
 
Our run game was ineffective because we didn't have a pass game that kept the D honest. I can accept the "game plan" for this particular game.......because we won. But I am not naive enough to believe that will work with an opposing team with a better balanced D and halfway decent O. I hope that Kubiak does not give way to naivete and a post game "It's on me" conference.

Lol, I don't think that even the biggest Texans homer is naive enough to think that game plan would work, and i sure as hell don't think Gariak is that naive...

And it's funny you mention an "it's on me" press conference, because when asked about the second half in his presser yesterday, Kubes actually said "it's on me" lol, and explained how he didn't put the offense in a good position to do well... But i think he knew he wasn't calling it great in the second half, and chose to just play it safe...

I think that's also why we didn't see Tate more in the 2nd half, because though Foster had ball-handling issues Sunday, that's really not an issue with him when looking at his track record, but an issue with Tate... I think not running with Tate may be something he felt he failed at as well, tossing that under the "it's on me" umbrella... Maybe he should have trusted Tate a little more...

But back to the original point, no one is "that" naive (or am i being naive here?)! That game plan we saw in the 2nd half Sunday will not work, which is why it will not be the game-plan this Sunday (not in "all-caps" because it is a correct statement ;)... Great reply yesterday, CND, just remembered to rep you for it)... The only reason it worked Sunday was because we were up 10 pts against a horrid offense when it went into effect...


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Our run game was ineffective because we didn't have a pass game that kept the D honest. I can accept the "game plan" for this particular game.......because we won. But I am not naive enough to believe that will work with an opposing team with a better balanced D and halfway decent O. I hope that Kubiak does not give way to naivete and a post game "It's on me" conference.

The Jacksonville D didn't really fear Leinart going deep on them and Leinart really didn't try too hard. There were good plays call when Leinart was in there where he could have stretched the field a bit more.

When Yates came in, I don't think Kubes knew how bad Leinart was hurt. And so he let Yates go back and wing a few and Yates did a good job.

But then after halftime, you've got Owen Daniels taking snaps on the sideline just in case Yates goes down.

Kubes still allowed him to try to make some throws. (The passes to AJ, for instance.) And Yates showed some spark. But then Kubes realized that he could ice the whole damned game and get out with Yates healthy, and that's the course he took.

I think it was a good call on Kubes' part. My wife was hating the play-calling but I was totally fine with it. It would have been great if our running game could have gotten some first downs in that instance but we got out with the W.

I don't know what Kubes is going to do in the Atlanta game. I expect him to find the things Yates feels most comfy with and build a gameplan around that. I'm not going to be surprised if Kubes treats this game as a test and pulls out some stops to see what Yates is capable of with real bullets flying.
 
I think we miss lawrence vickers a lot. James casey didn't look all that great today.

I don't think Vickers is all that great. In fact i think he clogs up the lanes! Look at previous games when he's in and you'll see that foster loses 1 yard or gains nothing when Vickers is in, this also happens with Tate. Just my OP..
 
I don't think Vickers is all that great. In fact i think he clogs up the lanes! Look at previous games when he's in and you'll see that foster loses 1 yard or gains nothing when Vickers is in, this also happens with Tate. Just my OP..

Just the opposite of what I've observed.
 
I don't think Vickers is all that great. In fact i think he clogs up the lanes! Look at previous games when he's in and you'll see that foster loses 1 yard or gains nothing when Vickers is in, this also happens with Tate. Just my OP..

Vickers has been really good the times that I have watched him.

He is a really good lead blocker in this offense because he has a little speed on him and is able to get up on the LB's really quickly.
 
That was no doubt a big pass he dropped in that Raiders game, but it shouldn't take from the fact that he's done a damn good job blocking...

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I ment that since I saw him that game I've always thought he sucked, when i see him trying to block, I don't know why but it looks like he's clogging the lanes! My brother notices too but i guess it's just us..
 
The Jacksonville D didn't really fear Leinart going deep on them and Leinart really didn't try too hard. There were good plays call when Leinart was in there where he could have stretched the field a bit more.

When Yates came in, I don't think Kubes knew how bad Leinart was hurt. And so he let Yates go back and wing a few and Yates did a good job.

But then after halftime, you've got Owen Daniels taking snaps on the sideline just in case Yates goes down.

Kubes still allowed him to try to make some throws. (The passes to AJ, for instance.) And Yates showed some spark. But then Kubes realized that he could ice the whole damned game and get out with Yates healthy, and that's the course he took.

I think it was a good call on Kubes' part. My wife was hating the play-calling but I was totally fine with it. It would have been great if our running game could have gotten some first downs in that instance but we got out with the W.

I don't know what Kubes is going to do in the Atlanta game. I expect him to find the things Yates feels most comfy with and build a gameplan around that. I'm not going to be surprised if Kubes treats this game as a test and pulls out some stops to see what Yates is capable of with real bullets flying.

Maybe I missed something but I don't remember Yates chunking the ball down field a whole lot.
 
Maybe I missed something but I don't remember Yates chunking the ball down field a whole lot.

The only atttempt that Yates tried for over 10 yards was that 14 yard pass to AJ.

Leinart had 3.
The TD pass to Dreessen, a 23-yd completion to AJ that was called back (they called AJ for pushing off, but we can't see it, and the radio guys I listened to thought it was a bad call), and a 14-yd incompletion to Dreessen (ball was just high, but catchable; Leinart was trying to avoid a D-lineman's hand; CB Midleton was called for a penalty offsetting by a penalty on D.Brown.)

I don't get this "Check Down King" label being put on Leinart, especially when we all know at least the first 15 plays were scripted.

I don't see anything wrong with Leinart's decision on where to go with the ball.
Sorry, but it seems to me some people are simply stuck with the past and/or influenced by some of the media's bias.
 
The Jaguars had a very good defensive game plan against us. They never over-pursued and allowed any cutback lanes. They're used to our zone blocking scheme and played disciplined football today. Every time Arian tried to put a foot in the ground to cut back he was cutting back right into a defender. They did a good job on us today.

^^^I agree with the above!

Our blocking overall wasn't very good either; and Foster didn't help the out at times.
Oh, and also AJ whiffed on a block where Foster fumbled the ball (he carried the ball as if it was a hot potato) while Walter whiffed on a block on the opposite side of the field on another stretch play.

The Jags didn't really stack the box.
They played 2-deep safety a bit more than us (I want to say quite a bit, but I haven't count them so I can't be 100% sure.)

We should have had a better running game than the Jags, but we didn't.
And don't tell me that we're scare of Gabbert! :slapfight:
 
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The only atttempt that Yates tried for over 10 yards was that 14 yard pass to AJ.

Leinart had 3.
The TD pass to Dreessen, a 23-yd completion to AJ that was called back (they called AJ for pushing off, but we can't see it, and the radio guys I listened to thought it was a bad call), and a 14-yd incompletion to Dreessen (ball was just high, but catchable; Leinart was trying to avoid a D-lineman's hand; CB Midleton was called for a penalty offsetting by a penalty on D.Brown.)

I don't get this "Check Down King" label being put on Leinart, especially when we all know at least the first 15 plays were scripted.

I don't see anything wrong with Leinart's decision on where to go with the ball.
Sorry, but it seems to me some people are simply stuck with the past and/or influenced by some of the media's bias.

First, the scripted business is a red herring. That has nothing to do with the QB's decision to - or not to - go for the WR running the deeper pattern. And of all people, I don't have to tell you that patterns are run in groupings; i.e., medium or deep outs are paired with fly or post patterns to make the safeties commit. I'm sure you know the thought process. My beef was that Leinart never took a shot deep downfield to make the safeties back off. I mean, do you really consider that 14-yd pass to AJ or the TD to Breessen a "deep" pattern?
Seriously?
C'mon man.

While I have to confess with being pleased Leinart never turned the ball over, I'm somewhat disappointed that he never really stretched the field.
 
I'm surprised Kubiak even had Yates doing any type of "real" pass plays just before halftime. I bet Kubiak, on his way to the locker room at half, was thinking "Geez, why did I do that? For a lousy 2-minute drill opportunity? I need to keep the Jags the hell away from Yates."

He goes to the team, says "Florida is a graveyard for my QBs. Wade, Bill, Vance...can you guys get us out of here with what we got on the board already? OK then. This season is different. It's going to continue to be different. It's not that I mistrust TJ. I just want to get the hell out of Florida and have a QB to work with. Alright? OK, let's go get Del Rio fired...."Keep choppin' wood" on 3, 1---2---3...KEEP CHOPPIN' WOOD!"

And with that, the entire second half was a running play or an immediate or delayed throw to a RB. And Del Rio gets fired, we still have Yates to work with, and it was a "W" for the good guys.
 
The only atttempt that Yates tried for over 10 yards was that 14 yard pass to AJ.

Leinart had 3.
The TD pass to Dreessen, a 23-yd completion to AJ that was called back (they called AJ for pushing off, but we can't see it, and the radio guys I listened to thought it was a bad call), and a 14-yd incompletion to Dreessen (ball was just high, but catchable; Leinart was trying to avoid a D-lineman's hand; CB Midleton was called for a penalty offsetting by a penalty on D.Brown.)

I don't get this "Check Down King" label being put on Leinart, especially when we all know at least the first 15 plays were scripted.

I like the "Check Down King" that's what this offense is made for. Run, check down, bust their ass with the play action.

Leinart did exactly what he was supposed to do.

Like TPN said, we scored 17 points in the first half on the road against what everyone is saying is a pretty good defense.

Yeah, he got help from special teams, defense, & 5 ypc running game. But that is exactly what we've been saying since Matt Schaub got hurt.

He didn't need to be a world beater. Manage the game, don't lose it.

He did exactly what he was supposed to.
 
While I have to confess with being pleased Leinart never turned the ball over, I'm somewhat disappointed that he never really stretched the field.

He didn't even make it out of the 1st half.

We don't know if anyone was open on any deeper routes. We can't see that. Like I said earlier, the defense played a great game, the special teams played a great game, we knew this was going to be the case going in & Matt wasn't going to have to force anything.

Just manage the game & get a win on the road (a place we haven't won since 2006 with Schaub or Sage (& you know he ain't scared to sling it))

5 wins in a row, never happened before. I think Leinart did his part & if he made it to the second half, we probably score 30.
 
I'm surprised Kubiak even had Yates doing any type of "real" pass plays just before halftime. I bet Kubiak, on his way to the locker room at half, was thinking "Geez, why did I do that? For a lousy 2-minute drill opportunity? I need to keep the Jags the hell away from Yates."

I think it was said that at the time, he thought Leinart was coming back. They had no idea what was wrong with Leinart at the time, he looked fine as he came off the field & told the coach he was in trouble.

They let Leinart go see the medical staff & threw Yates in the game. We were on their 45 yard line with less than 2:00 minutes in the game. Kubiak saw it as an opportunity to score, Yates looked great out of the gate & he kept his foot on the gas.

As this was going on, Leinart goes to the locker room, an assistant tells Kubiak it looks like Matt is done..... Kubiak's butt puckers & he gets extremely protective of the only QB active for the day.

Makes sense to me.
 
The only atttempt that Yates tried for over 10 yards was that 14 yard pass to AJ.

Leinart had 3.
The TD pass to Dreessen, a 23-yd completion to AJ that was called back (they called AJ for pushing off, but we can't see it, and the radio guys I listened to thought it was a bad call), and a 14-yd incompletion to Dreessen (ball was just high, but catchable; Leinart was trying to avoid a D-lineman's hand; CB Midleton was called for a penalty offsetting by a penalty on D.Brown.)

I don't get this "Check Down King" label being put on Leinart, especially when we all know at least the first 15 plays were scripted.

I don't see anything wrong with Leinart's decision on where to go with the ball.
Sorry, but it seems to me some people are simply stuck with the past and/or influenced by some of the media's bias.

Couldn't agree more.
 
The only atttempt that Yates tried for over 10 yards was that 14 yard pass to AJ.

Leinart had 3.
The TD pass to Dreessen, a 23-yd completion to AJ that was called back (they called AJ for pushing off, but we can't see it, and the radio guys I listened to thought it was a bad call), and a 14-yd incompletion to Dreessen (ball was just high, but catchable; Leinart was trying to avoid a D-lineman's hand; CB Midleton was called for a penalty offsetting by a penalty on D.Brown.)

I don't get this "Check Down King" label being put on Leinart, especially when we all know at least the first 15 plays were scripted.

I don't see anything wrong with Leinart's decision on where to go with the ball.
Sorry, but it seems to me some people are simply stuck with the past and/or influenced by some of the media's bias.

First, the scripted business is a red herring. That has nothing to do with the QB's decision to - or not to - go for the WR running the deeper pattern. And of all people, I don't have to tell you that patterns are run in groupings; i.e., medium or deep outs are paired with fly or post patterns to make the safeties commit. I'm sure you know the thought process. My beef was that Leinart never took a shot deep downfield to make the safeties back off. I mean, do you really consider that 14-yd pass to AJ or the TD to Breessen a "deep" pattern?
Seriously?
C'mon man.

While I have to confess with being pleased Leinart never turned the ball over, I'm somewhat disappointed that he never really stretched the field.

Like TK said, the WCO is built around the short passing game and running the ball. Occasionally, we would go deep.
It also depends on the opponent that we play. If Kubiak feel like we need to score against certain opponent, he would open the playbook more.

Yes, I understand pass patterns. And that was why I said I don't have any problem with where Leinart went with the ball. There was one occasion where I can't see deep (like TK mentioned) but I think the coverage was there.

You make me work, LOL; I checked a few games from last year and these are the results:

(Colts week 1)
- 53-yd PI Hayden on Walter (I mentioned this play in the 2-man route thread).
- 18-yd pass to AJ (who gained a couple more YAC) in the second qtr (on this play, JJ ran a deep route to take away the safety, the Texans then inserted AJ underneath.)
- 19yd pass to Walter who ran 3 more yards to the end zone (wide open).
- Schaub threw an ill-advised pass to AJ on a one-man route (double coverage) that was intercepted by the safety Bullitt). Schaub shouldn't have thrown this pass, EVER!

(Redskins week 2)
In the first qtr, Schaub completed a 16-yd pass to Walter who gained a couple more YAC.
In the second, Schaub completed an 18-yd pass to AJ.
And this one ended up a high-scoring affair.

(Cowboys game week 3 last year.)
In the first half, the only attempt Schaub had for over 14 yard was a 17 yard incompletion to AJ.

(Raiders week 4)17-yd attempt to JJ, who dropped the ball.
That was it!

(Giants game week 5)
- Behind by 7, Schaub tried a 19-yd pass to AJ and was intercepted.
- Behind by 14 late in the first, Schaub tried another 19 yarder to OD that was batted away by LB Goff who ran with OD.

2 mins into the second quarter, the Texans were behind by 21; still Schaub didn't attempt anything longer (than 14)

I think that's enough of a sample, at least for now!
 
Well you made mention of Leinart not stretching the field and then you said Yates came in and was winging it.

Maybe I'm just crazy.

Well, you ARE just crazy but I think this came from the definition of "winging it".

I was just saying that Yates came out throwing (after that initial run by Arian). Not that he was throwing it far down the field, just that he was throwing it instead of handing off. And the throws weren't flair passes to the RBs or bubble screens or anything like that. He got that nice crossing pattern to OD for 24 and a nice out to JJ on the sidelines.

In his first 4 throws, Yates went 3/4 for 39 yards (before the intentional grounding penalty.)
 
Here's confirmation on why the running game wasn't working well.
It was a little of the line, a little of Fostr, and a little of the Jags D staying discipline and containing the gaps.

Duane Brown
(on how to get the running game going again) “Yeah, we just got a little bit out of sync [against Jacksonville]. The line and the running backs got a little out of sync our last game with where a hole should’ve opened up at. We didn’t get on our blocks as cleanly as we could have, and we kind of forced some cutbacks that shouldn’t have been cut back there. Just keep working at it and every day, just keep trying to polish this thing up. We’ve still got a lot of confidence in the running game. The coaches do, too, and that’s our first goal, to establish it, so we’ll be fine.”
 
It looked to me like the Texans OL was taking a much shallower angle in the Jags game. Looked back and compared to the Titans game. The OL comes off almost running parallel to the LOS. Against the Jags they were coming off a lot closer to 45 degrees.
 
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