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our QB situation

TexanFanInCC

TexanFanInCC

Veteran
the more i think about it, and the more i hear about VY's capabilities, the more i start to sway from reggie over to VY. david carr is on the early xmas gift list of a lot of clubs, and im sure they see carr's potential. if the texans would like to cross out alot of needs, trade david carr for some major defense help. there are enough free agent o-lineman that would desire coming to htown bc of the change to kubiak. with the reports of vy working out with rohme at rice stadium, all i can wonder about is...man if he lives up to what rohme believes, then we would be perfect here in houston. imagine the talent and fan base going hand in hand....VY would be an absolute icon in houston for many years. one thing that caught my attention was how rohme stated that vy's ability to throw on the run was alot better than we all imagined. everyone believes that vy would struggle with that mainly bc he got to sit behind the best o-line in college football for the past 2 years and take as much time as he needed, but apparently rohme was very impressed. throwing on the run is something im sure kubiak treasures, mainly bc of his work with jake plummer. i believe these workouts that young is having is a showcase to show the texans front office that he has the goods to play under kubiaks system and be an elite QB. besides, VY has that vibe that really sinks in with the other players. he makes others play better bc he helps keep the team relaxed. his work ethic is unmatched and he is always looking forward to getting better. how can the texans NOT draft vince young?

lets think about it. reggie bush is a hell of a talent, and has massive potential, but there are so many other needs on this team, that RB shouldnt be an issue. im satisfied with domanick davis. he averaged 4.2 yds per carry last yr, which is very satisfactory. he just needs more touches. if u trade david carr, u can pick up some pieces to help other areas, especially on the defensive side of the ball.
 
SSDD.

Congratulations on repeating the reigning pro-Vince argument verbatim.

"... David Carr would fetch lots in a trade, Vince could and likely will live up all of the hype, surefire, hard worker, fan icon, etc. etc. ..."

Same argument, same problems. Carr isn't cheap, will cost us a small fortune to trade this season, isn't likely to fetch much of consequence as he is still relatively unproven. Vince is still a somewhat-project, will cost us a large fortune (~55M), and is at best a debatably moderate upgrade to a position we are already decent in and committed to contract-wise. Meanwhile we were 2-14 last year (due in large part to coaching, IMO, which we have rectified, but still ...) and we have a lot of ground to cover in this offseason.

If we didn't have a salary cap ...

If we didn't have David Carr on a 3-year, bonus-heavy contract ...

If we didn't have multiple other, far more pressing needs ...

If we couldn't trade this pick or better utilize it to add to this team now ...

Then yes, draft Vince Young. But the problem is, we do have a salary cap, we do have David Carr, we do have other, far more pressing needs, and we can use the pick better somewhere else.

I have stated it a million times, I think Vince will be a good NFL player. But the logistics of the situation - specifically, the Texans situation - dictate he will be a good player somewhere else.

Costs too much (real and opportunity cost) for not enough gain.
 
SESupergenius said:
FYI, there is no QB controversy. We aren't selecting Young with the #1 pick in the draft.

Feb. 9, 2006 - 10:41 pm et

The Texans exercised QB David Carr's contract option, keeping him with the team through 2008.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/3649092.html
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Usually it's the fans deciding if there is a QB controversy. By the way I see it, we've had one since the Browns game 2 seasons ago. When he was booed like the dickens when he was coming back onto the field after he took a play or two off due to some sort of injury, yea. People were booing Carr off the field once the game was over saying things like you suck and etc...

That's when he vehemently went to the coaching staff and demanded a change and he got it. Only problem was he wasn't smart enough QB passing wise to pull off the new system in the pre-season so they botched it and went back to the old system yet to no avail it failed as well. So now he has failed at two different system (look for the open receiver down field and the dink and dunk ((passes to running back don't count)) 2-3 step drop). Now we just had a 2-14 season and everyone else got the blame except for him. I mean for crying out loud, he's 2 commercials w/ Clemons referencing the fact that he's sack prone, that **** ain't funny. Not to mention he was sacked 32 times in his senior season, that's kinda steep if you consider VY and Leinert had less than 20 combined.

Bottom line there is QB controversy, whether it's the traditional kind where you have a vialble back-up or that the guy sux that bad where a change, any change is needed.
 
Joe Texan said:
The SESupergenius Speaks before the Team does, ANd seems to know more than Bob McNair, Amazing
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What does McNair know anyway. He complains about having a losing team, yet he stood by four 4 years watching his QB get pounded into the ground and seeing Capers run the rest of the team into the ground. Seriously, what would McNair know. Anyone on this board knows more about operations and football in general than McNair. He signs checks, and has yet to prove otherwise.
 
I'll counter your argument. Yes, we have more pressing needs on this team. Quarterback isn't one of them, and neither is running back. You say trade Carr for some defensive help. I say trade the #1 pick for a defensive starter, move back to the #4 or #5 pick and get a defensive player (AJ Hawk, Mario Williams) or an offensive lineman (Ferguson).

As for Domanick Davis, he averaged 4.2 yards a carry, but he was hurt for about 1/4th of the season. Giving him more touches isn't going to keep him healthy, it's actually the other way around. Give him less touches and he'll stay healthy but be less productive. Give him more touches he has a chance to be more productive but he'll also risk getting hurt, which can and probably will happen. He seems to have more nicks and bruises than any other player on our team, and those bruises are usually more severe.

The Texans don't need another QB. That would make us take longer to build this team up again, and I'm sure we don't want to see 3 more years of losing seasons. I say trade down, but if we had to choose between Reggie Bush and Vince Young, I would choose Reggie Bush. He helps our offense be much more dynamic now, helps take the pressure off Davis, and both of them can be productive immediately, not 3 down the line.
 
bigTEXan8 said:
What does McNair know anyway. He complains about having a losing team, yet he stood by four 4 years watching his QB get pounded into the ground and seeing Capers run the rest of the team into the ground. Seriously, what would McNair know. Anyone on this board knows more about operations and football in general than McNair. He signs checks, and has yet to prove otherwise.
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One thing is for sure, McNair upgraded our coaching staff after a miserable yr. You must admit, for an expansion team they were moving along as planned. Until this yr. Changes were made, in the coaching ranks, and upgraded by leaps and bounds IMO. The coaching staff we had was horrible. We now have young, aggressive coaches. I like that. We will now have a more aggressive defense and hopefully offense. We all learn from our mistakes, so will he. Only decision i don't agree with, is him keeping CC. Reeves could do a better job than what CC has done, should have given him the job.
 
Koolbrz said:
One thing is for sure, McNair upgraded our coaching staff after a miserable yr. You must admit, for an expansion team they were moving along as planned. Until this yr. Changes were made, in the coaching ranks, and upgraded by leaps and bounds IMO. The coaching staff we had was horrible. We now have young, aggressive coaches. I like that. We will now have a more aggressive defense and hopefully offense. We all learn from our mistakes, so will he. Only decision i don't agree with, is him keeping CC. Reeves could do a better job than what CC has done, should have given him the job.
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You know what...I will give McNair props for that. Even though he couldn't walk five feet without someone probably telling him, "Get Kubiak!!"
 
bigTEXan8 said:
You know what...I will give McNair props for that. Even though he couldn't walk five feet without someone probably telling him, "Get Kubiak!!"
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It's okay. I don't care if he couldn't walk 3 ft. without someone telling him to get Kubiak. The point is that he did. Which makes our team better. He is at the very least doing something about the situation.
 
I just hope the front office goes aggressively after F/A market. A corner and one of the OL mentioned in other recent threads added to a good draft can put this team on right track.
 
Meloy said:
I just hope the front office goes aggressively after F/A market. A corner and one of the OL mentioned in other recent threads added to a good draft can put this team on right track.
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I believe they will. They must jump on these guys from day one. Not wait to be 1 mth. into the FA market before signing someone. They will have slim pickins by then.
 
Joe Texan said:
The SESupergenius Speaks before the Team does, ANd seems to know more than Bob McNair, Amazing
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Want to put an avatar bet on it Joe "Holier than thou" Texan?

I think that signing Carr speaks for itself and the Team. I'll be looking for you after the 1st pick in the draft.
 
bigTEXan8 said:
What does McNair know anyway. He complains about having a losing team, yet he stood by four 4 years watching his QB get pounded into the ground and seeing Capers run the rest of the team into the ground. Seriously, what would McNair know. Anyone on this board knows more about operations and football in general than McNair. He signs checks, and has yet to prove otherwise.
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Mr. McNair complains about a losing team? :um: When?

What does Mr. McNair know...other than how to become a billionaire from nothing, convince the NFL to put in a new team in Houston instead of LA, how to put together financing for $700 million to buy a team, and be a major part of building the first retractable roof football stadium.

And let's see, he promised Houston sports fans that he wouldn't be a meddling owner, but would instead hire football men to run the operations. And when they failed, fire them and hire an entire new coaching staff.

yeah, this board knows more than Mr. McNair....yeah, riiiiiiiiiiiight. And that's why everyone on this board works for someone other than a professional football team. :ok:
 
Double Barrel said:
Mr. McNair complains about losing team? :um: When?

What does Mr. McNair know...other than how to become a billionaire from nothing, convince the NFL to put in a new team in Houston instead of LA, how to put together financing for $700 million to buy a team, and be a major part of building the first retractable roof football stadium.

And let's see, he promise Houston sports fans that he wouldn't be a meddling owner, but would instead hire football men to run the operations. And when they failed, fire them and hire an entire new coaching staff.

yeah, this board knows more than Mr. McNair....yeah, riiiiiiiiiiiight. And that's why everyone on this board works for someone other than a professional football team. :ok:
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I wasn't even going to dignify such a stupid comment with a response (the post you were quoting, not you) ... but thanks for saving me the effort.
 
jerek said:
SSDD.

Congratulations on repeating the reigning pro-Vince argument verbatim.

"... David Carr would fetch lots in a trade, Vince could and likely will live up all of the hype, surefire, hard worker, fan icon, etc. etc. ..."

Same argument, same problems. Carr isn't cheap, will cost us a small fortune to trade this season, isn't likely to fetch much of consequence as he is still relatively unproven. Vince is still a somewhat-project, will cost us a large fortune (~55M), and is at best a debatably moderate upgrade to a position we are already decent in and committed to contract-wise. Meanwhile we were 2-14 last year (due in large part to coaching, IMO, which we have rectified, but still ...) and we have a lot of ground to cover in this offseason.

If we didn't have a salary cap ...

If we didn't have David Carr on a 3-year, bonus-heavy contract ...

If we didn't have multiple other, far more pressing needs ...

If we couldn't trade this pick or better utilize it to add to this team now ...

Then yes, draft Vince Young. But the problem is, we do have a salary cap, we do have David Carr, we do have other, far more pressing needs, and we can use the pick better somewhere else.

I have stated it a million times, I think Vince will be a good NFL player. But the logistics of the situation - specifically, the Texans situation - dictate he will be a good player somewhere else.

Costs too much (real and opportunity cost) for not enough gain.
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First off, what price are you going to put on having a successful team and building a franchise that is actually respected around the league? How much do you think that is worth to McNair? Believe me, it is much more worth it to him to have the players in place to elevate this team out of NFL purgatory and put butts in Reliant stadium seats, regardless of whether he has to blow up the cap to do so. And interestingly enough, there is a chance the salary cap may be suspended if a new collective bargaining agreement can not be reached by March 3, although all the ramifications this could hold are not yet clear. Whatever the case, to not draft a player who you think could be great and plays what is widley considered the most important position on the field (obviously this is what the FO believes, as they already drafted a QB #1) because you already have another guy playing there, will inevitably blow up in your face and prove to be your ultimate regret. All arguments about Bush helping more, or needing multiple players are meritous, but to argue against a guy on financial grounds (when it applies to the prime position on the team) is highly dubious...

BTW...the "you" is not personally you, but anybody sitting in the FO who might share that sentiment...
 
Joe Texan said:
The SESupergenius Speaks before the Team does, ANd seems to know more than Bob McNair, Amazing
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Unfortunately, SES is most likely speaking the truth and Bob McNair is blowing smoke up you skirt. Once the option contract was executed, the probability of Vince Young landing in a Texans uniform dropped to about 5-10% (IMHO). It just doesn't make sense for the Texans to take that kind of hit to the cap for trade bait.

Actually, I don't think its Bob that’s blowing smoke these days, its Charlie. IMNSHO, having heard/seen Charlie on 610 and ESPN, that Charlie is a rat fink of the highest proportion. I don't know if it was Bob or Dan that got a tail shine from this guy, but someone had too for Charlie to survive last years 2-14 record.

I just hope that Vince signs a three year deal with the Titans.
 
Big B Texan Fan said:
Usually it's the fans deciding if there is a QB controversy. By the way I see it, we've had one since the Browns game 2 seasons ago. When he was booed like the dickens when he was coming back onto the field after he took a play or two off due to some sort of injury, yea. People were booing Carr off the field once the game was over saying things like you suck and etc...

That's when he vehemently went to the coaching staff and demanded a change and he got it. Only problem was he wasn't smart enough QB passing wise to pull off the new system in the pre-season so they botched it and went back to the old system yet to no avail it failed as well. So now he has failed at two different system (look for the open receiver down field and the dink and dunk ((passes to running back don't count)) 2-3 step drop). Now we just had a 2-14 season and everyone else got the blame except for him. I mean for crying out loud, he's 2 commercials w/ Clemons referencing the fact that he's sack prone, that **** ain't funny. Not to mention he was sacked 32 times in his senior season, that's kinda steep if you consider VY and Leinert had less than 20 combined.

Bottom line there is QB controversy, whether it's the traditional kind where you have a vialble back-up or that the guy sux that bad where a change, any change is needed.
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I think the point is that you can't really have a QB controversy without a #2 QB on the roster that the fans think should be the #1...we don't and as SES correctly pointed out...that is not going to change anytime soon. IMO, the final bullet on this thread was shot by Kubiak who by his comments and the actions of the FO said that they are going to bet on DC getting the job done. Obviously, it is fair and to some maybe even fun to passionately disagree with that decision but really we all should start getting used to the idea that the big moves that the Texans will be making will be elsewhere on the team.
 
jerek said:
Same argument, same problems. Carr isn't cheap, will cost us a small fortune to trade this season, isn't likely to fetch much of consequence as he is still relatively unproven. Vince is still a somewhat-project, will cost us a large fortune (~55M), and is at best a debatably moderate upgrade to a position we are already decent in and committed to contract-wise. Meanwhile we were 2-14 last year (due in large part to coaching, IMO, which we have rectified, but still ...) and we have a lot of ground to cover in this offseason.

If we didn't have a salary cap ...

If we didn't have David Carr on a 3-year, bonus-heavy contract ...

If we didn't have multiple other, far more pressing needs ...

If we couldn't trade this pick or better utilize it to add to this team now ...

Then yes, draft Vince Young. But the problem is, we do have a salary cap, we do have David Carr, we do have other, far more pressing needs, and we can use the pick better somewhere else.

I have stated it a million times, I think Vince will be a good NFL player. But the logistics of the situation - specifically, the Texans situation - dictate he will be a good player somewhere else.

Costs too much (real and opportunity cost) for not enough gain.
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(a) I'm not sure Carr wouldn't bring a good price, since you and others have elsewhere said how many coaches and GMs think highly of him.

(b) I don't think VY will cost of $55M in guaranteed money.

(c) I do believe the Texans have plenty of money under the cap and can arrange for more with cuts and renegotiations. The actual cash we'll be out if trading Carr means nothing, of course, except its effect on the cap.

(d) The Carr trade is to make up for the lost draft picks from not trading the 1st pick--so maybe you get a low first round and a player or a high 2nd and a player.


I actually think we SHOULD trade the first pick, too, and see if we can manage to do it while arranging to be wherever Vince Young is going to fall if he falls, as he seems to be doing now. Fourth or sixth is my guess.
 
Koolbrz said:
One thing is for sure, McNair upgraded our coaching staff after a miserable yr.
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I THINK this is true, too, but stranger things have happened than Kubiak turning out not to be the savior everyone hopes he will be. It seems that the coaching has been upgraded, but the degree of the upgrade is yet to be demonstrated. Everyone is hopeful and assumes that Kubiak and his Band of Nobodies can coach this team up like crazy and win 7 games next year. I hope everyone is right, but I'm not putting my retirement savings on it.
 
Nighthawk said:
I THINK this is true, too, but stranger things have happened than Kubiak turning out not to be the savior everyone hopes he will be. It seems that the coaching has been upgraded, but the degree of the upgrade is yet to be demonstrated. Everyone is hopeful and assumes that Kubiak and his Band of Nobodies can coach this team up like crazy and wil 7 games next year. I hope everyone is right, but I'm not putting my retirement savings on it.
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I honestly can't say how many games they will win next yr. One thing is for sure, coaching is going to be much better and what he can get out of them is up to the players. You can have the most successful coach ever on this staff, but if the players don't perform what good is it to have him. They need to make wise decisions in the draft, FA, and with the players they are going to keep. Maybe, we can get 7-8 wins. Like you said we will not know until next yr.
 
No need to bet on something that is so far from being decided. There is to much to look at and too much to think about before the draft. I say a week before the draft we will know exactly where the Texans are going. I am just amazed at all the couch coaches that seem to have so much knowledge that they can predict exactly how a professional team will react on draft day. I do appreciate all the opinions and actually laugh at some of them.
 
TexanSam said:
I'll counter your argument. Yes, we have more pressing needs on this team. Quarterback isn't one of them, and neither is running back. You say trade Carr for some defensive help. I say trade the #1 pick for a defensive starter, move back to the #4 or #5 pick and get a defensive player (AJ Hawk, Mario Williams) or an offensive lineman (Ferguson).

As for Domanick Davis, he averaged 4.2 yards a carry, but he was hurt for about 1/4th of the season. Giving him more touches isn't going to keep him healthy, it's actually the other way around. Give him less touches and he'll stay healthy but be less productive. Give him more touches he has a chance to be more productive but he'll also risk getting hurt, which can and probably will happen. He seems to have more nicks and bruises than any other player on our team, and those bruises are usually more severe.

The Texans don't need another QB. That would make us take longer to build this team up again, and I'm sure we don't want to see 3 more years of losing seasons. I say trade down, but if we had to choose between Reggie Bush and Vince Young, I would choose Reggie Bush. He helps our offense be much more dynamic now, helps take the pressure off Davis, and both of them can be productive immediately, not 3 down the line.
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...a couple things--first, everyone will be learning a new system this year, not just the newbies. So far, for whatever reason(excuse), Carr has not done very well in the learning/executing of 'any' system--and,yes, I hope the Texans take away all the excuses so that Carr can show us what 'he's got.'

Second, Bush is a small back--will he be able to take the constant pounding of the NFL? We've got 3 backs that avg close to 4 ypc and can catch, blocking being their weakness (Bush a good blocker?). If Capers had rotated DD to keep him fresh--instead of running him into the ground--he may have been less injury prone.
 
When all is said and done, the Texans will take Vince with the number one pick. Bob McNair isn't that stupid.
 
tsip said:
...a couple things--first, everyone will be learning a new system this year, not just the newbies. So far, for whatever reason(excuse), Carr has not done very well in the learning/executing of 'any' system--and,yes, I hope the Texans take away all the excuses so that Carr can show us what 'he's got.'

Second, Bush is a small back--will he be able to take the constant pounding of the NFL? We've got 3 backs that avg close to 4 ypc and can catch, blocking being their weakness (Bush a good blocker?). If Capers had rotated DD to keep him fresh--instead of running him into the ground--he may have been less injury prone.
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RB may be a little small, but that is something that can be takin care of with a little work in the weight room. Adding 7-10 pounds could help him. Honestly, with his speed and elusiveness it will be hard to get a solid hit on him and he has no history of being injured for the same reason. Look at T. Barber he is 5'10'' and 200lbs, W. Dunn is 5'7'' and 185lbs. They are small backs and great at what they do. Bush will be a stud. Now, DD is a nice power back. Only problem is he can not stay healthy. It seems to me that he is always hurt at the end of the season. When you need your back the most. IMO if you have these two guys on the field at the sametime it will benefit the team way more than having to switch out rb's. VM and JW are not the threats that RB can be. We need a GAMEBREAKER and that is what RB can be. I guarantee he will not be chased down from behind if he gets into the open field.
 
Joe Texan said:
No need to bet on something that is so far from being decided. There is to much to look at and too much to think about before the draft. I say a week before the draft we will know exactly where the Texans are going. I am just amazed at all the couch coaches that seem to have so much knowledge that they can predict exactly how a professional team will react on draft day. I do appreciate all the opinions and actually laugh at some of them.
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Some how I knew you wouldn't want to do the avatar bet, all mouth no substance.

It's pretty obvious what the Texans are NOT going to do since they picked up the option on Carr. Please keep yourself in denial, it's pretty funny. Although you may be right in that we could actually draft Young or even Lienart, because with Casserly driving the boat we can end up anywhere, of course you'd be front and center on that boat giving a homer "Hooray!"
 
Y'all might laugh at this but......I agree that spending the $$$$ on Young would be senseless,not that he probably isn't worth it but it would be $$$ tied up on the bench for 1-2 years.I think we need a better vet backup to teach,coach and console with Carr.I don't believe that Banks gives us that.I have never liked Banks as our #2 guy.Ok here is the punch line.I'm thinking of a guy that has been around for about 20 years,is a sparkplug and loves the game....anyone know who i'm talking about? Doug Flutie.:rolleyes:
 
TexanSam said:
I'll counter your argument. Yes, we have more pressing needs on this team. Quarterback isn't one of them, and neither is running back. You say trade Carr for some defensive help. I say trade the #1 pick for a defensive starter, move back to the #4 or #5 pick and get a defensive player (AJ Hawk, Mario Williams) or an offensive lineman (Ferguson).
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Doesn't look like the #4 or #5 are too eager to trade. GB likes where they are sitting. NY would probably like to trade down themselves.

TexanSam said:
As for Domanick Davis, he averaged 4.2 yards a carry, but he was hurt for about 1/4th of the season. Giving him more touches isn't going to keep him healthy, it's actually the other way around. Give him less touches and he'll stay healthy but be less productive. Give him more touches he has a chance to be more productive but he'll also risk getting hurt, which can and probably will happen. He seems to have more nicks and bruises than any other player on our team, and those bruises are usually more severe.
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DD will be Okay....... Kubiak's run blocking scheme saves wear & tear on the Runningback. Dlinemen/linebackers will be cut block, DD will be able to dance around them, and take on DBs more his size.

TexanSam said:
The Texans don't need another QB. That would make us take longer to build this team up again, and I'm sure we don't want to see 3 more years of losing seasons. I say trade down, but if we had to choose between Reggie Bush and Vince Young, I would choose Reggie Bush. He helps our offense be much more dynamic now, helps take the pressure off Davis, and both of them can be productive immediately, not 3 down the line.
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Not much arguing here. It is highly probable that Reggie would help us to be more productive on offense next season. Except, that he'll have to pass block on passing downs if we don't fix the Oline, so let's go ahead and take him out of the passing game.
 
Koolbrz said:
RB may be a little small, but that is something that can be takin care of with a little work in the weight room. Adding 7-10 pounds could help him. Honestly, with his speed and elusiveness it will be hard to get a solid hit on him and he has no history of being injured for the same reason. Look at T. Barber he is 5'10'' and 200lbs, W. Dunn is 5'7'' and 185lbs. They are small backs and great at what they do. Bush will be a stud. Now, DD is a nice power back. Only problem is he can not stay healthy. It seems to me that he is always hurt at the end of the season. When you need your back the most. IMO if you have these two guys on the field at the sametime it will benefit the team way more than having to switch out rb's. VM and JW are not the threats that RB can be. We need a GAMEBREAKER and that is what RB can be. I guarantee he will not be chased down from behind if he gets into the open field.
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Then look at RickyWilliams....... never hurt, not one day in college...... Then he's hurt his first 2 years.... Heck, let's compare DD's first 3 years to Ricky's(3129yrds)..... DD(3195yrds)....... Tiki Barber(935yrds).... Shuan Alexander(2806yrds).....

I may be in the minority, but I don't care if my running back get's 50-80 yard runs for touchdowns...... if he is a treat to get the first down, then that's all we need out of the rungame.
 
whiskeyrbl said:
Y'all might laugh at this but......I agree that spending the $$$$ on Young would be senseless,not that he probably isn't worth it but it would be $$$ tied up on the bench for 1-2 years.I think we need a better vet backup to teach,coach and console with Carr.I don't believe that Banks gives us that.I have never liked Banks as our #2 guy.Ok here is the punch line.I'm thinking of a guy that has been around for about 20 years,is a sparkplug and loves the game....anyone know who i'm talking about? Doug Flutie.:rolleyes:
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Let's get Flutie AND Vince--a Mutt & Jeff thing.
 
michaelm said:
'in my not so humble opinion'
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Yep, sometimes I'm humbe, and sometimes I'm not. When predicting our chances of getting VY, I'm humble, making subjective odds are pretty much a guessing game. When it comes to reading Charlie, I'm not. I don't think the guy has given a strait answer on anything since he got here. I expect this kind of double talk from my politicians, not from my football team.

Anyway there is my :twocents:
 
Koolbrz said:
RB may be a little small, but that is something that can be takin care of with a little work in the weight room. Adding 7-10 pounds could help him. Honestly, with his speed and elusiveness it will be hard to get a solid hit on him and he has no history of being injured for the same reason. Look at T. Barber he is 5'10'' and 200lbs, W. Dunn is 5'7'' and 185lbs. They are small backs and great at what they do. Bush will be a stud. Now, DD is a nice power back. Only problem is he can not stay healthy. It seems to me that he is always hurt at the end of the season. When you need your back the most. IMO if you have these two guys on the field at the sametime it will benefit the team way more than having to switch out rb's. VM and JW are not the threats that RB can be. We need a GAMEBREAKER and that is what RB can be. I guarantee he will not be chased down from behind if he gets into the open field.
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Barber and Dunn may be shorter, but they are much more skilled between the tackles runners. Barber is a physical runner for his size and Dunn doesn't take big hits because he is low to the ground and hard to light up. Scouts are concerned about how high Reggie runs, and at 6 even, that's a lot of ankle/knee for dudes like Bob Sanders and Polamalu to tear up. Because he is not a physical runner, he has the tendency to 'over-cut' in the backfield if the running lanes are not readily visible, and we already know how he likes to try to fly through the air. He did try to run over C.Griffin in the Rose Bowl tho, nice to see him try (I said try) somethin' different...
 
Double Barrel said:
Mr. McNair complains about a losing team? :um: When?

What does Mr. McNair know...other than how to become a billionaire from nothing, convince the NFL to put in a new team in Houston instead of LA, how to put together financing for $700 million to buy a team, and be a major part of building the first retractable roof football stadium.

And let's see, he promised Houston sports fans that he wouldn't be a meddling owner, but would instead hire football men to run the operations. And when they failed, fire them and hire an entire new coaching staff.

yeah, this board knows more than Mr. McNair....yeah, riiiiiiiiiiiight. And that's why everyone on this board works for someone other than a professional football team. :ok:
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Beginning of the KC game, Theisman quoted McNair as saying that he did not like the way the team was playing, and that they should have played a lot better in the first 8 games, and should play better in the last eight games. Cass was sitting next to him eating a salad or whatever, didn't even seem interested in the game at all. And correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't McNair go out to the Chronic and say multiple times he wasn't happy with the team? Seriously, correct me if I'm wrong, I thought I saw plenty of threads refering to those articles.

I admit, he's not a meddeling owner, and I give him a lot of cred about it. But there's a difference in "not meddeling" and "sitting on your *** and doing nothing." As an owner, your name goes out to a product. Just curious, would anybody on this board want your name on the product the Texans churned out this season? What I am saying is, McNair had to have seen a problem in specific areas of the team since 2002. This is just me, thinking if I was an owner, I would wonder, if not :brickwall to why the heck no one did anything to sure up the o-line, which has been a main problem since day 1. Congrats to bringing football back to Houston, with the awesome staduim and facilities, but no matter how good the make-up, the team still looked like krap.

When I said that more people on this board knows more about football than he does, I also said that, to me, is how McNair came off. I'm not saying McNair doesn't know more about football than people on this board, I'm just saying that's the way it is perceived.
 
why draft Vince and would Carr even be worth much considering Drew Brees is rumored to be released (yes damaged goods I know)

you could have Brees and Bush


sarcasm..

I'll be very suprised if VY is drafted... to me Carr is here for the long haul and besides that we will have Ragone also ..so why draft another QB when you can get OL/DL or RB that would help this team alot more than what a QB could right now or help a defense get a pass rush so our secondary would get toasted so much
 
TreWardTxn said:
Barber and Dunn may be shorter, but they are much more skilled between the tackles runners. Barber is a physical runner for his size and Dunn doesn't take big hits because he is low to the ground and hard to light up. Scouts are concerned about how high Reggie runs, and at 6 even, that's a lot of ankle/knee for dudes like Bob Sanders and Polamalu to tear up. Because he is not a physical runner, he has the tendency to 'over-cut' in the backfield if the running lanes are not readily visible, and we already know how he likes to try to fly through the air. He did try to run over C.Griffin in the Rose Bowl tho, nice to see him try (I said try) somethin' different...
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I agree with what you say about Dunn and Barber. As for RB, he is fast and elusive, i really don't think that defenses will be able to light him up. With a decent line and a few more pounds i feel he will be able to run between the tackles, and as far as him running high. A lil coaching can fix that. Dude is a GAMEBREAKER and thats what the Texans need someone who can take it the distance. DD is a good back he just can't go the distance. I believe he was caught from behind what 4-6 times this last yr. Not good
 
In the best of all situations, instead of trading down, the Texans should draft Vince Young and trade either him or David Carr (whichever another team wants more) for 3 qualified offensive linemen of at least 2 years experience. This would take a 3-way deal, because the liklihood of the team needing a QB willing to give up its OL is unlikely. They'd give up 1, and the other 2 would have to come from somewhere else.
 
tko54321 said:
In the best of all situations, instead of trading down, the Texans should draft Vince Young and trade either him or David Carr (whichever another team wants more) for 3 qualified offensive linemen of at least 2 years experience. This would take a 3-way deal, because the liklihood of the team needing a QB willing to give up its OL is unlikely. They'd give up 1, and the other 2 would have to come from somewhere else.
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Wow, I know teams like QBs, but no team is giving up even one promising, young offensive lineman, unless they are just stacked at the position. The only guy I can think of is Trai Essex from the Steelers, who apprently looks like a player, but can't stay on the field because of all the talent in front of him...
 
Bamboo said:
WOLF did u watch this????

http://media.putfile.com/Vince-Career-Top-11

that is why u draft another qb, one that is a leader and one that is home grown and all-world. carr couldn't do half of those plays in success, let alone one maybe one tenth.
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The Texans aren't taking VY. They may regret it down the road, and if that happens us fans will be the ones paying the price. However, just accept it now because whether it turns out to be good or bad, the Texans are not drafting VY.
 
Bamboo said:
this guy is pretty good, maybe we should draft him...

http://media.putfile.com/Vince-Career-Top-11

only player in the HISTORY of college football to pass for 3000 and run for 1000 in a season. something the Texans current qb NEVER came close to doing.

kinda weird trying to convince those that don't see it. a player that is already a legend possibly coming to a team that only won 2 games last year and fans have to question it?? wow, weird.
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That is probably one of the better VInce Young highlight clips I've seen.


Morknolle or any of the doubters... please look at the play starting @ 1:21....... Vince is rolling left..... stops, sets his feet, then throws a 40 strike to Limas Sweed( I think) hitting him in stride for a touchdown....... That is just an awesome play.... It's hard to tell, but it looks like he came over the top with the ball, and the release was high, and quick.

Throughout the clip, you see Vince moving with the ball, very well. AT 0:31, you see him get in trouble, but he keeps looking down field for a reciever. He's looking downfiled, and there's a rusher in his face....... he spins around him, and his eyes are down the field again, for a second time...... he slides to his right, the attackers have a hold of him, he looks at two different options, and decides to throw the ball to the second.......... that's awesome..

Then at 1:29, the pocket is gone, he runs right, sees the defender..... pump fakes...... the dB jumps to deflect the pass, as Vince runs past him with the ball. if you don't see how high the DB jumps(how convincingly Vince sold the pump) just wait, they replay it... What really impresses me about this, is even in the NFL, you don't see QBs effectively use the pump as often as they should..... much less, on the run. That's awareness........ keep watching, he'll pump fake five yards past the line of scrimmage, and they still bite on it...


I honestly don't know what to think of David Carr right now. I have no idea how much upside he has left. But if I'm going to bet my career on what David might be, or on what Vince might be....... I'm going with #10. Especially in the situation we have right now, where we can have the best of both worlds. Draft Vince. Start Carr next year, no questions asked, no QB competition, nothing. David starts. We've got two years, to see what he's got.... we can make the decision of wether we want to go with Carr or Vince, two years from now.

Especially if Casserly did his job, and Kubiak thinks he can do something with our offensive line. Move the pocket, pull a guard....... teach David what a hot route is..... help David understand that there is a difference between a stupid pass, and letting his WRs fight for the ball.

Let's get some cut blocking going on... let DD get 10 easy yards before he sees contact.

Get Gafney, Mathis, and Armstrong some stick-um, some gloves, something...

and get us a pass rush with that high second.....
 
man thats a nice clip, really gets the emotions stirring, what a special player he is

i'm truly going to be devastated if we pass on him : (
i've never felt this strongly about a player before
 
Bamboo said:
WOLF did u watch this????

http://media.putfile.com/Vince-Career-Top-11

that is why u draft another qb, one that is a leader and one that is home grown and all-world. carr couldn't do half of those plays in success, let alone one maybe one tenth.
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And do you think Vince Young will make those types of plays on a constistent basis in the NFL? He may turn out to be a great player, but he's not going to be anywhere near as exciting in the NFL as in college. He was a man among boys in college. Not so in the NFL.

And this comment is just to anyone who has this opinion. Some people say Vince Young will change the game. Here's this comment from Ron Jaworski to Peter King in Sports Illustrated. "I keep hearing how Vince Young's going to change the game. Well, the NFL's been around for over 80 years, and no single player has changed the game.'' I don't think Vince Young will redefine the QB position. He might be a good QB, but I don't think he's going to be the Lawrence Taylor of QB's.
 
TexanSam said:
And do you think Vince Young will make those types of plays on a constistent basis in the NFL? He may turn out to be a great player, but he's not going to be anywhere near as exciting in the NFL as in college. He was a man among boys in college. Not so in the NFL.

And this comment is just to anyone who has this opinion. Some people say Vince Young will change the game. Here's this comment from Ron Jaworski to Peter King in Sports Illustrated. "I keep hearing how Vince Young's going to change the game. Well, the NFL's been around for over 80 years, and no single player has changed the game.'' I don't think Vince Young will redefine the QB position. He might be a good QB, but I don't think he's going to be the Lawrence Taylor of QB's.
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This goes for all college players.... wether they play OL, DL, RB, WR, etc....

Yet some people do come in, and do what they did.... Leftwhich....... McNabb... Vick....... Ware.... Jevon... Palamau.. Rothlisberger.. Peyton...... LT.... Chad Johnson.... Cullpepper....... etc...... etc...

And Jaworski still carrying around his KC Chiefs plan for the superbowl book from three years ago... & what's he mean no single player has changed the NFl?? LT changed the Linebacker position, as did Butkus before him. Both players changed the make-up of the Defense, which changed how offenses have progressed through the years...
 
TexanSam said:
And do you think Vince Young will make those types of plays on a constistent basis in the NFL? He may turn out to be a great player, but he's not going to be anywhere near as exciting in the NFL as in college. He was a man among boys in college. Not so in the NFL.

And this comment is just to anyone who has this opinion. Some people say Vince Young will change the game. Here's this comment from Ron Jaworski to Peter King in Sports Illustrated. "I keep hearing how Vince Young's going to change the game. Well, the NFL's been around for over 80 years, and no single player has changed the game.'' I don't think Vince Young will redefine the QB position. He might be a good QB, but I don't think he's going to be the Lawrence Taylor of QB's.
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By "change the game," I take that to mean that he has the ability to become a new standard for his position at the professional level. And regardless of whether he reinvents the QB position or not, when his skills reach their peak, he will be the single hardest player to defend on any football field. Any DC would go nuts trying to figure out how to defend this guy; wouldn't want to spy most LBs, too slow, use a safety and your putting huge holes in your coverage. At the end of the day, playing QB is about making the best decisions, and there is no way to reinvent that, but a guy with his ability has so many options available to him on the field, it allows him to make plays that much easier...
 
The Sacking Machine said:
just give up man DAMN
why would you want vince young when he couldnt throw a TD pass against the 39th defense
((not to bring down young))
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Not to bring Young down? Umm, that is not what you are trying to do? I don't know which 39th defense you are referring to, however how does your argument hold any weight when he threw TD passes against a great Ohio State defense? The last one, threaded the needle in the clutch, to win the game.

If he DOES struggle against poor defenses, then we should have nothing to fear when he comes in here in Bud Duds (Titans uni), because our defense is pretty darn poor.

BTW folks, if the VY highlights gets you worked up, then STOP watching them. You are only going to p*ss yourself off when the Texans call out the name Bush on draft day. Face it, that is who they are taking whether we like it or not. Just take a few minutes and stare at my avatar. Better suck it up and get used to it now.

This is going to be one of those occasions where I pray I am wrong (as far as which direction I think the team should go) and those in charge of the Texans either know what they are doing or get lucky.
 
One thing you can be sure of.... the more the Texans say they'll draft Reggie, the less likely it will happen.

I'm not saying they'll be drafting Vince, even though I still think it is highly probable..... It looks more like they are ready to trade down.
 
The truth of the matter is that no one throughout the country thinks Young is ahead of Leinart if you need a QB. No one but fans in Houston. Many draft people have him rated 3rd or 4th as they review tape. He didn't actually shine in the skills challenge. As far as being a winner, his record is second behind Leinart "Homegrown" is overated and means nothing. The knock on Young is two fold. First his arm, second his ability to read defenses. Leftwich has the same problems. I am going to trust Kubiak and Co. to truly evaluate the players and what they need. Personally, I think that they will choose Bush or trade down. My only concern is that they get an impact player.
 
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