S
SESupergenius
Guest
I know that is just too classic. Nice fair weather fan base the Rams got going.
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Orlando Pace a Texan? | Day 2
- Thread starter Blake
- Start date
Texan Gal 312
Waterboy
$51 million - I would think we could sign an upgrade at center and guard for that price. or at least an upgrade at center and an improvement to depth at guard.
I would think improving this weakness would improve our TEAM more than replacing Wand with one of the best in the NFL. Wand is very athletic for his size and has significant upside potential. Hopefully he shows it next year.
I would think improving this weakness would improve our TEAM more than replacing Wand with one of the best in the NFL. Wand is very athletic for his size and has significant upside potential. Hopefully he shows it next year.
S
SESupergenius
Guest
Really, it's up to St. Louis at this point. If nothing more, this puts a little more pressure on those guys. - Orlando Pace (3/14/2005)"
So really, he was just forcing the Rams to handover the money. So how do the Rams fans like being mugged at gunpoint? We got used, they got mugged. Happlily ever after.
Team-Sport
Practice Squad
Just having fun.
Your Forum is great.
See you guys later.
Peace.
Your Forum is great.
See you guys later.
Peace.
There's good things and bad things about this fall through. Obviously, it would have been great to have Pace to anchor our line and protect Carr, but we'd be in a lot of financial trouble trying to keep him and Carr and AJ in a few years. It's good to have our draft picks back though 
Wolf
100% Texan
I think it would be a mistake for the Texans to make the trade.
if reports are true about 2 first round picks and possibly more..I will be disappointed in the texans on that.
1) I feel the weakness of the line is mainly from Center and guard.
2) we are not deep enough to give up 2+ draft picks (we have seen what has happened with injuries the last 2 years to the defense)
I know Carr needs help and I hate it that we can't protect him. but how much can one guy protect carr? Pace IS a player, but I can't remember Carr having a pocket to step up and throw into
I wish I could find a website that would compare our line to the Rams, because they gave up a lot of sacks also (eventhough they did throw a lot more)
if reports are true about 2 first round picks and possibly more..I will be disappointed in the texans on that.
1) I feel the weakness of the line is mainly from Center and guard.
2) we are not deep enough to give up 2+ draft picks (we have seen what has happened with injuries the last 2 years to the defense)
I know Carr needs help and I hate it that we can't protect him. but how much can one guy protect carr? Pace IS a player, but I can't remember Carr having a pocket to step up and throw into
I wish I could find a website that would compare our line to the Rams, because they gave up a lot of sacks also (eventhough they did throw a lot more)
Wolf
100% Texan
tiger06 said:There's good things and bad things about this fall through. Obviously, it would have been great to have Pace to anchor our line and protect Carr, but we'd be in a lot of financial trouble trying to keep him and Carr and AJ in a few years. It's good to have our draft picks back though
besides that, we still need youth in the defense area.. I am not saying everyone is old on the defensive side, but it would be nice to get some players to groom while Walker, Payne, Glenn, coleman are here.
bubbajaxonbrown
Noob
Well said. I'm a huge Coleman and Glenn fan since I'm from Tech but they're both a step or two slower than they used to be. They both still have a year or two left but we'll have to pass the torch at FS and CB soon.
That's why I'd like to see a play at a nice big DB who can play CB or S like Antrel Rolle. He can hit and cover. His 40 is a little slower than some of the other corners but none hit like he does.
That's why I'd like to see a play at a nice big DB who can play CB or S like Antrel Rolle. He can hit and cover. His 40 is a little slower than some of the other corners but none hit like he does.
Wolf
100% Texan
I guess I am a skeptic.. when I heard about the 2 plus draftpicks given up , first thing that I think of is the Cowboys and the Joey Galloway trade... with Galloway getting injured and Seahawks drafting Alexander and Robinson(if I am not mistaken) . to me it set the Cowboys back a few years, but they were a team on their last leg to get back to the superbowl and they still are reeling from that IMO (even though they had one good year under the tuna)
B
Bar_bq
Guest
Yeah. As a Rams fan, I've gotta tell you that if u trade for him, h'll be worth it. protection on the blind side is always important, and pace has gone to the pro bowl 6 years straight because of his abilities.
bubbajaxonbrown
Noob
You're exactly correct. The Dolphins and the Saints both made the mistake of giving up too many draft picks for Ricky Williams, the Chargers gave up too much to get David Boston, and I bet right now the Giants feel like *****s b/c they could have used the 2nd or 3rd round pick they gave up to get Eli.Wolf said:
It's never a good deal to give up that many draft picks when you have a young team.
TexansTrueFan
All Pro
i would agree with you about giving up to many draft picks beign a young team, if the coaches hadnt done such a great job of builing this team. I think we are way ahead of where all the past expansion teams were at this point. And we have so much young talent that i dont think it will hurt this team to give up 2 draft picks to get pace ! He will help us more than 2 rookies will !
ThaShark316
#28
Back to Square one since we wont be getting Orlando Beltran...errr Carlos Pace....dammit, I meant Orlando Pace.
^^^jokes...he basically told the Rams to jump, and the Rams said how high.
^^^jokes...he basically told the Rams to jump, and the Rams said how high.
TheOgre
All Pro
bubbajaxonbrown said:
None of your examples compare to this situation. Pace has been to the Pro Bowl several times. Ricky showed signs of emotional problems as did Boston. Eli has yet to prove or disprove his worth. You are comparing different things. Now if you had mentioned Andre Rison, that might have been a better comparison.
TexansTrueFan
All Pro
haha a non issue ?? you make it sound like one guy on our line is all thats needed to protect carr ! Even if we get pace the line will still have some troubles. And all your saying is WHAT IFs atleast we know what we're getting with pace.
LBblitz
Waterboy
He might have helped us this coming season...but what about three years from now when he is getting older and more vulnerable to injuries and when his huge salary would push out even more young, raw talent? IMO the trade would have been a disaster. I would much rather see us keep building thru the draft.
TheRealJoker
Hall of Fame
Would've loved to have a player at his level here. With him on the OL Carr would lack a major scapegoat in his OL for not performing well.
PS: By that I mean the line would give him alot more time in the pocket and let Carr put up the #s. However if he didn't put up the stats, then we possibly should look for a new franchise QB. Not saying Carr isn't good, hard to tell. But if he has a good OL and still doesn't put up nice #s and win games, then he isn't for us.
PS: By that I mean the line would give him alot more time in the pocket and let Carr put up the #s. However if he didn't put up the stats, then we possibly should look for a new franchise QB. Not saying Carr isn't good, hard to tell. But if he has a good OL and still doesn't put up nice #s and win games, then he isn't for us.
bubbajaxonbrown
Noob
You just mentioned Rison.....so thanks.
ccdude730
Veteran
first of all you dont know what your getting. you dont know what you get in return until hindsight - thats common sense.TexansTrueFan said:
i know pace is an upgrade over wand, but is getting pace worth draft day 1 draft picks - i dont think so (he will be 30 this year also - hes not a spring chicken either) we might be able to lessen the problem with pass protection with work on the interior of the line - mainly center.
if you think pace would make us an automatic playoff contender or he would give up 0 sacks thats just being ignorant.
TexansTrueFan
All Pro
we all know how good of a LT pace is, you are just ASSUMING we would get some automatic impact players from the draft, WE have been an extremely lucky team when it comes to the draft so far, but not every pick we make in the future will turn out to be a D-Rob, or babin or D.D or AJ !!!!
TexanExile
A New Hope
LOL@"Orlando Beltran"--classic.
Well, dang it. I was thinking they might pull it off, but as the numbers got higher, I admit I started to question the sanity of taking such a huge cap hit for the foreseeable future. I'm disappointed that the deal didn't happen, but the Texans have had unqualified success with their two most recent #1 picks, so here's hoping that trend continues.
I must say that the antics of the Rams fans were pretty entertaining. "He's a loser! He's a fat @#$*@#&%!!! What, he's coming back? I LOVE that guy! He RULES!"
Heh....it was fun while it lasted.
Well, dang it. I was thinking they might pull it off, but as the numbers got higher, I admit I started to question the sanity of taking such a huge cap hit for the foreseeable future. I'm disappointed that the deal didn't happen, but the Texans have had unqualified success with their two most recent #1 picks, so here's hoping that trend continues.
I must say that the antics of the Rams fans were pretty entertaining. "He's a loser! He's a fat @#$*@#&%!!! What, he's coming back? I LOVE that guy! He RULES!"
Heh....it was fun while it lasted.
Wolf
100% Texan
I agree with that. We have drafted well.. there are no guarantees in the rookies or there is no guarantees in a veteran getting injured.. I just would take my chances with atleast 2+ of our high draft picks panning out though... that is just me.. skeptic...TexansTrueFan said:
it isn't about the age of Pace either on my opinion.. heck this would be a moot point if we took Roaf over Boselli .. did I say that out load? (for the record.. based on doctors (nfl and texan) i'd take boselli)
TheRealJoker
Hall of Fame
Hmm... The plot thickens methinks...
AndreJ
Rookie
Wolf said:nfl.com and espn when I checked was saying that Texans had an offer and the Rams hadn't decided to match it,but a trade could be in the works.. I am confused
Yeah i just looked at that, ill trust ESPN and NFL.com over what any of you say or the yahoo searched football sites that most of you guys get your info from. Im gonna go along with ESPN and NFL.com and maybe there is still a chance.
P.S. doesn't this feel like the 2000 election (I think it was) When the media came out and said AL Gore was pres., then it was Bush.
AndreJ
Rookie
markbeth said:
I'm not sure what you meant in that second sentence, but why would NFL.com come out after Pace supposedly signed with the Rams and say he visited houston and there could be a possible trade. I would like to think that they might get the real facts before houstonprofootball.com or any of the other sites yall get some of this stuff from.
I could be wrong, but im gonna go with the big boys on this one. Only time will tell.
Wolf
100% Texan
TexansTrueFan
All Pro
well after the rockets game last night they were talking about it, and interviewed pace. So the info we got cant be to far off.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
TexansTrueFan
All Pro
well i hope he had a nice 2 way flight to houston. 
utahmark
markbeth
AndreJ said:
i was just saying that it takes time for those bigger sites such as nfl.com to get and confirm there reports. then it probably has to be approved by an editor and so on. the guys on this board just get the info then they type it. you would be amazed at how often they are correct. i read a thread about boseli ending his career a day before any newspaper or tv said anything about it. and now the news we are getting is confirming everything we have been reading here. have a little faith.
Ranger
Waterboy
Who says its ended? Just because he has signed a deal with the Rams, doesn't mean this whole thing has ended. Have you ever heard of a sign and trade?
The Texans are in no hurry to sign an offer sheet. If they do that and the Rams decline, then we will be forced to give up are 1st this year and next. By no means do we want to do that.
The Texans-Rams plan here may be for the Rams to work the contract with him, and then he could be traded to the Texans for a "smaller asking price" than those 2 first round picks. If the Texans had signed the offer sheet, we would have been forced to give away those 2 first round picks and that would have been the trade. Now with Pace signed with a contract, the Rams can trade him to Houston for a 1st and whatever else they want.
I don't know, maybe this is the end and he has signed with the Rams and plans to say. If it is, than Pace's agent just did a heck of a job by letting come to Houston and see the Texans were serious in this thing to let the Rams see what his true market vaule is and make Pace a better offer after they got scared that Pace might sign with us.
So the road goes on..............
The Texans are in no hurry to sign an offer sheet. If they do that and the Rams decline, then we will be forced to give up are 1st this year and next. By no means do we want to do that.
The Texans-Rams plan here may be for the Rams to work the contract with him, and then he could be traded to the Texans for a "smaller asking price" than those 2 first round picks. If the Texans had signed the offer sheet, we would have been forced to give away those 2 first round picks and that would have been the trade. Now with Pace signed with a contract, the Rams can trade him to Houston for a 1st and whatever else they want.
I don't know, maybe this is the end and he has signed with the Rams and plans to say. If it is, than Pace's agent just did a heck of a job by letting come to Houston and see the Texans were serious in this thing to let the Rams see what his true market vaule is and make Pace a better offer after they got scared that Pace might sign with us.
So the road goes on..............
This is funny, right before he left Houston he said he loved the visit, he enjoyed talking to Carr and Capers and said hes excited about the possibility of playing here, as Texans are a team on the rise. Right after that he told St louis he wants to stay in St louis..I think he's playin mind games
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Wolf said:
That was a really weird deal. The NFL took Roaf out of availability for the expansion draft for not being medically fit so the Texans never had a choice. How the NFL concluded Boselli was fit enough when he couldn't practice or anything we will never know. Of course Willie Roaf hasn't missed a game since and Boselli never played one. Imagine what might have happened if the NFL had pulled Boselli and left Roaf available.
TexansTrueFan
All Pro
infantrycak said:
hmm very interesting !!!!
from STL Today
The best suggestion Ive heard from our Houston counterparts had the Texans sending a first-round draft pick plus starting left tackle Seth Wand to the Rams for Pace.
Wand, a 6-foot-7, 330-pound behemoth from Northwest Missouri State, started all 16 games for the Texans last season. I've heard some good things about him, but why would Houston trade him if he had a big upside and a low salary?
It makes you wonder. Taking on Paces huge salary wouldnt make sense for Houston if Wand was ready to become a plus player at that position.
------
Houston seems willing to pay the going rate for Pro Bowl tackles, so Pace is not going to accept less to stay in St. Louis.
If Shaw, Zygmunt and Co. decide they cant pay the going rate for Pro Bowl tackles, for whatever reason, then they must score big while trading Pace.
They must get a player who can help right now, in a big way. They must add a second player who addresses the offensive lines future. And they must take whatever cap money is saved and spend it wisely on other needs.
Trading Orlando Pace could make or break the Rams in 2005 and beyond, depending on how it played out.
The Rams are on the clock . . .
the full story
The best suggestion Ive heard from our Houston counterparts had the Texans sending a first-round draft pick plus starting left tackle Seth Wand to the Rams for Pace.
Wand, a 6-foot-7, 330-pound behemoth from Northwest Missouri State, started all 16 games for the Texans last season. I've heard some good things about him, but why would Houston trade him if he had a big upside and a low salary?
It makes you wonder. Taking on Paces huge salary wouldnt make sense for Houston if Wand was ready to become a plus player at that position.
------
Houston seems willing to pay the going rate for Pro Bowl tackles, so Pace is not going to accept less to stay in St. Louis.
If Shaw, Zygmunt and Co. decide they cant pay the going rate for Pro Bowl tackles, for whatever reason, then they must score big while trading Pace.
They must get a player who can help right now, in a big way. They must add a second player who addresses the offensive lines future. And they must take whatever cap money is saved and spend it wisely on other needs.
Trading Orlando Pace could make or break the Rams in 2005 and beyond, depending on how it played out.
The Rams are on the clock . . .
the full story
You can tell by the fact that the Texans are considering high priced O-Lineman free agents that they are looking for a quick fix to the teams most vexing problem. I still say the Texans are suffering from the Boselli bust to this day. Most have been of the opinion that nothing would be done with the O-Line this off season to give the existing line time to jell and it was a focal point last year. It may be that patience among fans are already wearing thin and the coaches are looking over there shoulder. After all, if the Texans dont make the playoffs this year most seem to be of the opinion that heads should roll. So, there goes the "build from the draft" mentallity (thus not breaking the bank), and on to the "high priced quick fix" mentallity. Im sure there are some out there that are against the Pace deal and demand the playoffs next year too. Fact is, the Texans O-Line is not playioff calliber without drastic change or perhaps 2 more seasons with the same personel. Three years of being pummeled by NFL D-Lineman is starting to take its toll on Carr and his confidence and I think the coaches know it. Problem is, there is no easy answer.
TexansTrueFan
All Pro
Jwwillis said:
yeah i can agree tony really screwed things up for this team on the OL !!!
outofhnd
Rookie
I am against the Pace trade as well. Yea I would love to have his talent but i DOnt like his attitude and lack of work ethic. He is extremely talented but at his age with his lacksidaisical workout routine and M.O. for not showing up for any preseason conditioning only means that when he declines it will be a monstrous dropoff in talent level. He will then become a financial liability for the remainder of his tenure and the texans couldn't get a hotdog in a trade for Orlando at that point. I think we should wait and draft a top tier OL in next years draft when there should be a plethora available. I think Wand should workout with Peek on picking up the speed rush. Plus we keep forgetting we changed blocking schemes last year maybe we give it another year or maybe just ditch the blocking scheme all together. I don't think its a personnel issue at this time I say give Wand another year now that he has played 16 games and is a year wiser
Though on a positive note that over his career pace has recovered 4 fumbles
Though on a positive note that over his career pace has recovered 4 fumbles
BornOrange
Rookie
Ranger said:
It ends when Pace signs a contract with the Rams.
There are no sign and trades in the NFL, at least not with contracts this size.
In the NFL, if a player is traded then the entire cap hit of the signing bonus is taken that first year. So if the Rams were to sign Pace and then trade him, they would take a $15 million hit against the cap.
Pace is now a Ram for the rest of his career.