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Orlando Pace a Texan? | Day 2

Vinny said:
I think Lance has a clue that Guards and Tackles help each other. His Dad (or someone close in his family) is a NFL O-Line coach.
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And that makes them fair in their evaluations? Everybody has their opinion, and they seemed to make up their mind early on Wand.

Of course guards and tackles help each other, but post game they were always down on Wand. Do you really think he was the weakest player on the line every single game? Do other teams leave their LT one on one as much as the Texans? Why or why not? The Patriots used lots of schemes to give their LT help. I don't think we had the "team play" schemes in the OL down last year. That's where improvement is needed.

Even "experts" can be wrong, right?

Rant over. Thank you for your patience. :whew
 
What's the deadline for (3 P.M. wednesday)...I just wanna make sure I know what the hell I'm talking about....Is it this...


Rams | Negotiations with Pace at a Standstill - from www.KFFL.com
Tue, 15 Mar 2005 10:41:45 -0800

Jim Thomas, of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, reports the St. Louis Rams have until Wednesday, March 16, to sign franchise OT Orlando Pace to a long-term deal before a four-month blackout period kicks in when the team cannot negotiate a long-term deal with him. Pace characterized negotiations as being "at a standstill" with St. Louis. The team has offered him a deal worth $51 million, including a $15 million signing bonus. However, the guaranteed money in the deal is less than what the Seattle Seahawks gave OT Walter Jones.


:confused:

Could someone tell me what exactly yhat has to do with us....preciate it.
 
texansfan1974 said:
i wish we could hurry and get this done so i can go buy his new Texans jersey :woot
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Didn't Pace wear #76 in StLouis? Wonder if McKinney would be willing to give it up for him? Anyone know what number he wore at Ohio St? Not sure if the jersey number is all that important to him or not. :hmmm:
 
Runner said:
"The guys on 610" are so anti-Wand that they don't even realize the Texans scheme rarely had Pitts helping Wand. The Texans had Wand one on one while pass blocking almost all the time.
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The 610 radio guys commenting on the nuances of OL play is about as
appropriate as Terrel Owens commenting on Rocket Science.
On the other hand, we've got some guys on this Board who know something
on the subject, and I actually think the 610 guys audit our Board on a regular
basis because of some of the issues and question they raise.
Hey, don't get me wrong though, I listen to 610 and often find them entertaining, if not informative.
 
Iv'e seen Freeney get manhandled by OT that aren't even probowlers. It's just Freeney will have his days where nobody will be able to block him.
 
texasguy346 said:
Didn't Pace wear #76 in StLouis? Wonder if McKinney would be willing to give it up for him? Anyone know what number he wore at Ohio St? Not sure if the jersey number is all that important to him or not. :hmmm:
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Pace would wear 00, because that's how many sacks he'd be giving up.
 
Runner said:
And that makes them fair in their evaluations? Everybody has their opinion, and they seemed to make up their mind early on Wand.
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I exchange e-mails with Lance all the time (ask him if you want) and I find his exchanges with me very thoughtful. Perhaps he has a different opinion of Wand as you or I do? Does that make him a moron? I'd be real blunt and brutal if I thought he was a tool. I'm fairly outspoken.
Runner said:
Even "experts" can be wrong, right?
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Sure they can, but he just gives his opinion like we do here. He just gives his over the air.
 
texasguy346 said:
Didn't Pace wear #76 in StLouis? Wonder if McKinney would be willing to give it up for him? Anyone know what number he wore at Ohio St?
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That's enough reason to dump McKinney for me. :) Pace wore #75 at OSU.
 
I don't know if this is possible or has been discussed, but couldn't the Texans wait until after the draft to get pace? Get him to sign an offer sheet if the Rams won't budge on the trade...In that case, they either sign him or they would get our firsts in 2006 and 2007 which we are all hopeful will be in the high twenties.

It would be beautiful irony if Barron or someone the Rams would get were at 13 and turns out to be a stud and St. Louis misses on him because they want 2 firsts.
 
If something doesn't happen before tomorrow at 3pm I doubt it will at all. At least as far as the Texans are concerned. It doesn't look like the Texans are willing to surrender 2 1st round picks. If they signed Pace to an offer sheet and the Rams don't match that is the price the Texans would pay. If the Rams don't sign him to a long term deal by the deadline they can't negotiate with him until later in the year. I can't recall the exact time frame.

I would guess that right now the Texans and Rams are in a standoff. The Rams are asking for the 2 1s and the Texans are saying no. But, since I'm no longer allowed to listen in on their conversations I don't know for sure.

What I do know is..the Texans need to upgrade their line. The best tackle in the draft is Alex Barron. He should be available when the Texans pick. He'd get a lot of money, but not as much as Pace would command. It's impossible to project, but I would doubt he will ever be as good as Pace. He isn't a Gallery or Gross and neither of them have been all-world yet. They are still young and have plenty of time, though. The Texans want to take that next step now. If they can swap the 3rd round pick from Dallas and the 1st round this year plus even a midround pick next season I say it's a good deal. If they would have taken Barron you are in essence getting Pace for Barron, Henson, and maybe another pick. For an All-Pro left tackle it's worth it. They'd still have a 2nd and a 3rd rounder to pick up a Center and maybe a DT or a WR.
 
DoCt3rJ said:
Iv'e seen Freeney get manhandled by OT that aren't even probowlers. It's just Freeney will have his days where nobody will be able to block him.
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It's funny how guys will have good and bad days. Remember Pitts coming off giving up 15.50 sacks in 2002 to take on if memory serves the league leading sacker Jason Taylor with 18.5 sacks and not giving up a sack all day?

Some days the bear eats you--somedays you eat the bear.
 
UberDork said:
I don't know if this is possible or has been discussed, but couldn't the Texans wait until after the draft to get pace? Get him to sign an offer sheet if the Rams won't budge on the trade...In that case, they either sign him or they would get our firsts in 2006 and 2007 which we are all hopeful will be in the high twenties.

It would be beautiful irony if Barron or someone the Rams would get were at 13 and turns out to be a stud and St. Louis misses on him because they want 2 firsts.
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That option would be nice for the Texans, but if they bring in Pace I don't know if they would have enough cap space to also sign the #13 overall pick. Maybe they would look at trading down.
 
Vinny said:
I exchange e-mails with Lance all the time (ask him if you want) and I find his exchanges with me very thoughtful. Perhaps he has a different opinion of Wand as you or I do? Does that make him a moron? I'd be real blunt and brutal if I thought he was a tool. I'm fairly outspoken.Sure they can, but he just gives his opinion like we do here. He just gives his over the air.
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I didn't say they were morons. I said they were anti-Wand. I don't think you can argue that they aren't very high on him.

You're right, we could argue if their's is a good evaluation though. That's what this board does far better than talk radio.

The reason I first came on this board was to see if everyone thought like they did on the post game show. As a poster said a little while ago, this board has many very thoughtful posters. I think you get much more balanced discussion here. You also get to hear more than one sided rhetoric, if you care to read differing opinions.

The balance or lack there of is an artifact of just about all talk radio. I know I'd win lots of arguments if I had an off button for the opponent.

Peace.
 
texasguy346 said:
I like that idea. Now all we have to do is find an XXXXXXXXL helmet to fit that big melon of his.
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That thing has it's own weather system.

Stole that from Axe murderer. :D
 
SassyTexan said:
Anyone, besides me, watch him play at Ohio State?
The Pancake Man ... :thumbup
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Yep. I was hoping against all common sense that the Heisman voters would think outside the box and give the award to the most dominant player in college footbal regardless of position. They didn't.
 
Runner said:
I didn't say they were morons. I said they were anti-Wand. I don't think you can argue that they aren't very high on him.
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Ok, morons was too strong. I am not as high on Dom Davis as most of you guys are. That doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about because I am not in the larger opinion segment. We all have a different POV.
Runner said:
You're right, we could argue if there's is a good evaluation though. That's what this board does far better than talk radio.

The reason I first came on this board was to see if everyone thought like they did on the post game show. As a poster said a little while ago, this board has many very thoughtful posters. I think you get much more balanced discussion here. You also get to hear more than one sided rhetoric, if you care to read differing opinions.
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Every form of media has its limitations, including message boards. You give your thoughts, I give mine. It's all good.
 
Runner said:
Yep. I was hoping against all common sense that the Heisman voters would think outside the box and give the award to the most dominant player in college footbal regardless of position. They didn't.
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Perhaps they overreacted the next year and gave it to a DB (another very non traditional position for such an award) who was clearly less derserving than the QB who finished right behind him ?
 
Im not saying that this trade is a bad idea, because anytime u have a chance to bring in a top LT its key, but a lot of people on this board seem to think that draft pics in the 20's are bad picks....and that u can just give them away...Just look at the Rams last year, they got the best RB in the draft @ # 24 i believe....lots of amazing players come out of the late 1st round...and way deeper...I still think its a good trade but 200 and 2007 1st round picks are going to become great players.
 
Dunta_23 said:
Im not saying that this trade is a bad idea, because anytime u have a chance to bring in a top LT its key, but a lot of people on this board seem to think that draft pics in the 20's are bad picks....and that u can just give them away...Just look at the Rams last year, they got the best RB in the draft @ # 24 i believe....lots of amazing players come out of the late 1st round...and way deeper...I still think its a good trade but 200 and 2007 1st round picks are going to become great players.
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The Rams got Julius Jones? :shocked when did that happen? :heh

Trading two 1st rounders... :thumbdown
 
expect him to get around a 7 year deal worth around 50 million with at least 13 million in signning bonus money or gaurunteed money.
 
Absolutely first round picks are important stuff but "1st round picks are going to become great players" is a bit sweeping if you ask me. I got a list about a mile long of first round picks that didn't do squat. We've drafted well but it's impossible to be 100% in the draft, even in the first round. Hell, it's impossible to be 100% even in the top ten. Draft picks are chances to get a great player. Here in the Pace deal we're looking at giving up two chances for one sure thing.

That's what it comes down to for me. A sure thing, can't miss player who can instantly change the Texans offense for the better. You can't draft a single person this year who could come into our team and have the kind of effect Pace can have.

Lastly I ask anyone who's got real reservations about this deal to consider one thing. Do you like David Carr? Do you think he's going to be a good'un? Are you sick of seeing him running for his life and climbing up off the ground with pieces of turf sticking out of his facemask? If all that's true then what other move could the Texans possibly make that would be better than grabbing Pace from the Rams?

The offense appears mostly set. No more rookie starters and the only thing left causing a problem is the offensive line. Hello? Orlando Pace anybody? The defense is mostly set too. Last year we added 3 rookies starters and they're going to get better. The holes aren't like they were in 2002-2003. We've got some depth and we've got some players. Pace isn't going to gut this team like he might have done a few years ago. He's not going to prevent this team from growing and he's not asking (apparently) for some amazing stupid god-awful amount of money like his (former) agents were talking three years ago. He ain't cheap of course but he's not going to destroy our ability to manage the cap single handedly.
 
Pace is one of the best LTs in the league, he has won a super bowl and played in five pro bowls. Now look at who we are playing on the o line, is there anyone on our line with those kind of credentals? Looking at the draft class for this year and next year, besides D'Brickshaw Fergason(maybe) there are no LTs who are in the same class as him. But the way that we are trying to make a playoff push, Fergason will be gone. If we have a chance to get a guy like this who can play at a pro bowl level for the next 5-6 years, we should jump on the opportunity like it was the last chopper out of Nam.
 
TEXANS84 said:
I found it interesting that the Pace rumors have started a 5 page thread over at the Jaguars boards:

Jags Pace Topic
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And this of course means pretty much nothing (as does our own 400+ post thread(s) on this subject) but it's a fun read. How good is Pace? He's so good that there are knee jerks over there talking about "3rd place for the Jags after this move"

Give the Rams the two #1's, get the big guy into camp on time, and lets go smack some people around.
 
I will be very happy if we can add Pace for #13, Wand, Sharper and maybe a 3rd.

Our offense has 2 major weak spots and a couple of questionable spots.
Our major weak spots on offense are LOT and 2nd WR; our iffy areas are TE (waiting on Joppru who I think will bust) and OG (I think Pace makes these guys better by being here).

So, if we add Pace - then can add a quality WR (in the 2nd rd or FA? - McClaine speculated we were going to take a WR with our 1st pick, so we probably look at that with our 2nd pick now), our offense will be close to complete machine. I would love that - it would be nice to know that when you are down by 4 with 2 minutes to go, you can win if you get the ball back - teams like Indy/NE/Philly/GB KNOW they can win if they get the ball back - teams like AZ/NO/TB/Balt know they are in trouble if it comes down to that.
I would like to be in the category where we know we can score when we have to.

True, our D still needs work. But, we are still a young team and hopefully we can round that out next year.

So, please give up #13, Wand, Sharper, etc. to make the deal - it is the only way we are going to get a stud OLT - the rest (WR/OLB/DE) we can get later or next year if we have to.
 
The way that the Jaqs fan are talking, you would think that Pace already had a press confrence and held up a Texans jersey. Not to mention that they are freaking out. :thumbup
 
The Brown took Tim Couch (#1), Courtney Brown (#1), Gerard Warren (#3), and William Green (#16) all in the first round. Not one of them panned out. The draft is truly a lottery, some win and some lose.
 
Pace is a free agent next year if a deal is not struck. If the Texans are smart for lining up a deal now. This way they can meet and have terms worked out. If Pace becomes a free agent, then at least he is familar with the names and faces of the Texans organization and he has taken the tour.
 
rittenhouserobz said:
Pace is a free agent next year if a deal is not struck. If the Texans are smart for lining up a deal now. This way they can meet and have terms worked out. If Pace becomes a free agent, then at least he is familar with the names and faces of the Texans organization and he has taken the tour.
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The Rams arent stupid,they will franchise tag him, just like they have done for the past couple of years. Hes franchised now. If he plays for the Rams this year, he is going to have a long term contract with them.
 
I really hope this deal doesn't happen. Pace is very old now, and we have some nice defensive linemen in our division(freeney,Jacksonville's big 2) and if Pace ever needs help with those that will mess up our whole system. This team has built itself on youth so far, and i want us to keep that going. Pace can be a caner at some-times, and now at the near end of his career, already having won a championship, he's just worried about gettin set for life financially. We can do many good things with that #13 pick, And still not get hog-tied in terms of cap space.
 
DRIFTAWAY said:
I really hope this deal doesn't happen. Pace is very old now, and we have some nice defensive linemen in our division(freeney,Jacksonville's big 2) and if Pace ever needs help with those that will mess up our whole system. This team has built itself on youth so far, and i want us to keep that going. Pace can be a caner at some-times, and now at the near end of his career, already having won a championship, he's just worried about gettin set for life financially. We can do many good things with that #13 pick, And still not get hog-tied in terms of cap space.
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Dang it! I'm on death's doorstep then. I'm 31 years old!!
 
Carlton Thompson, of the Houston Chronicle, reports St. Louis Rams OT Orlando Pace sounded optimistic he would be able to reach a deal with the Houston Texans, who he visited with Monday, March 14. "The talks are going pretty good with Houston," Pace said. "Nothing has been written down or anything like that, but the fact I'm here and made the trip speaks enough for itself and their willingness to get it done. I don't think it will be a problem on that end. Really, it's up to St. Louis at this point." As reported, the Rams have until Wednesday, March 16, to sign their franchise player to a long-term deal before a four-month blackout period kicks in when the team cannot negotiate a long-term deal with him. "We'll see here in the next 24 hours or so... If we could make it happen, I'd love to be here (in Houston)," Pace said.
 
dalemurphy said:
Dang it! I'm on death's doorstep then. I'm 31 years old!!
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I guess I'll be next I'm 29 ! :heh:

I just hope this really goes through ............. I hate getting all hyped up for a big dissapointment . That seems to be the story when it comes to H-Town sports though . :thumbdown
 
DRIFTAWAY said:
I really hope this deal doesn't happen. Pace is very old now, and we have some nice defensive linemen in our division(freeney,Jacksonville's big 2) and if Pace ever needs help with those that will mess up our whole system. This team has built itself on youth so far, and i want us to keep that going. Pace can be a caner at some-times, and now at the near end of his career, already having won a championship, he's just worried about gettin set for life financially. We can do many good things with that #13 pick, And still not get hog-tied in terms of cap space.
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Maybe I'm tripping, but how is he old? He's 29 and won't be 30 until November. Born November 4, 1975, Sandusky, OH. Everyone always say your prime isn't until 28 or 29.
 
I know everyone is talking about Pace, but in my opinion only, he is definately not worth the 13th pick in the draft. Sorry, that is my opinion. With the 13th pick, we can pick up another player who will contribute immediately.

We need offense, not defense right now. Score 40 points, and let them score 38. I want an offense for my money, not defense. Who wants to see a game's final score of 7-3? Certainly not me....

BTW, this is not my first rodeo here, I just couldn't remember my last user name and password, or even e-mail address, LOL.

Blast away, I can handle it. Longtime Texan, never a Dallas Fan.......
 
Negative Jesus said:
I guess I'll be next I'm 29 ! :heh:

I just hope this really goes through ............. I hate getting all hyped up for a big dissapointment . That seems to be the story when it comes to H-Town sports though . :thumbdown
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And I am typing this to you all from BEYOND THE GRAVE! since I'm 39.

Pace isn't too old, Driftaway just doesn't want the Texans to sign him which is of course his right. I disagree and hope they reel him in.
 
Hervoyel said:
And I am typing this to you all from BEYOND THE GRAVE! since I'm 39.

Pace isn't too old, Driftaway just doesn't want the Texans to sign him which is of course his right. I disagree and hope they reel him in.
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I second that!
 
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