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Orlando Pace a Texan? | Day 2

keyfro said:
plus it would give indy a much harder time to sack carr with freeney out of the equation with pace on his side
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If I was Freeney I would just switch sides and wear out Todd Wade.
 
I'll take it with a grain. I've heard everything from it's a done deal to it's not going to happen. I wish they'd make SOME kind of announcement.
 
Vinny said:
I would. Kennedy is not real special and a back close to Jackson is much easier to find than dominant LT's.
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how about the two players the Texans aquired last season Dunta Robinson (#10) and Jason Babin (#27) would you trade both of those players for Orlando Pace? :cool:
 
beerlover said:
how about the two players the Texans aquired last season Dunta Robinson (#10) and Jason Babin (#27) would you trade both of those players for Orlando Pace? :cool:
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We aren't looking at a top-10 pick in this weak draft, next year I anticipate we have a 20-something selection and Pace would be the best position player on our team as soon as he signed outside of perhaps AJ. Pace instantly makes us a playoff contender imo.
 
Team-Sport said:
Someone on Rams Talk is saying the Rams and Texans have agreed in principle on a Pace Trade, with the Rams getting the Texans #1 Picks in 2005 and 2006. It was reportedly announced on the NFL Network.
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They don't need to trade to get that deal. They could sign Pace now and give up those two picks (that is the compensation for signing a Franchise Player). If there is an actual trade, it will be for less than 2 1st rounders.
 
Vinny said:
We aren't looking at a top-10 pick in this weak draft, next year I anticipate we have a 20-something selection and Pace would be the best position player on our team as soon as he signed outside of perhaps AJ. Pace instantly makes us a playoff contender imo.
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its close enough Vinny answear the question please. Dunta @ #10 is comparable to one of the CB's who will be there (#13) either Pac Man, Rogers or Miller, and Babin @ 27 is cutting a lot of slack that the Texans will be that good next year, but regradless as it relates to this draft that #27th spot would yield a player maybe even David Pollack.

so would you trade for Pace and give up Dunta Robinson & Jason Babin?
 
If I was Freeney I would just switch sides and wear out Todd Wade.
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True...... but Freeney would at least be in Carr's direct line of vision. Carr would just need to adjust his position in the pocket & it would help Wade & disrupt Freeney momentum.
 
Boris said:
True...... but Freeney would at least be in Carr's direct line of vision. Carr would just need to adjust his position in the pocket & it would help Wade & disrupt Freeney momentum.
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Didn't Mathis sack him 3 times from his non-blind side?
 
I tend to agree. The biggest ouch in this deal is the #13 this year. If all goes according to plan then next years first round pick won't be the loss that many people think of it as.

Honestly I'd gladly give them the two #1's (2005 and 2006) for Pace, particularly if it means keeping Wand instead of sending him to the Rams. People talk about Wand going to waste here if we've got Pace but if Wand has the kind of ability that the Texans thought they saw in him I could see him pushing Wade eventually.
 
wags said:
If I was Freeney I would just switch sides and wear out Todd Wade.
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And if I had Pace at LT and knew I was going to throw the ball I'd line Seth Wand up at TE on the right of Wade and then Freeney would view the play from his backside.
 
the rams FO are unwilling to part with pace because they know their 2005 season is shot without him anchoring the most pass-oriented offense in the league, even more than the colts...

they know, or are hoping, that the texans FO will never part with the 2 first rd. picks mandatory when an "offer sheet" is put on the table, hence the rams FO is not expecting to see any "offer sheet" from the texans...what they expect to see days before the draft is a trade proposal, hoping that the rams are fed up with pace or worried about any long holdout into the regular season...but if there's one thing the rams FO does know about pace is that he is not a dumb man. 8.5 million dollars is alot to even multimillionaries like pace. he will not miss any regular season games because it comes out of his own pocket...

the latest rumblings around rampark is that the FO will hold steady to demand of an "offer sheet" and reject any trade proposal. they expect pace to hold out all of training camp and preseason games but will eventually sign the franchise tender one or two weeks before the 1st regular season game. however, if the texans FO is dumb enough to put an "offer sheet" on the rams table and forego the two 1st rd picks then the rams are in deep do do...

and yes, pace is more important to the rams high octane pass offense than jimmy kennedy and steven jackson combined...
 
beerlover said:
its close enough Vinny answear the question please. Dunta @ #10 is comparable to one of the CB's who will be there (#13) either Pac Man, Rogers or Miller, and Babin @ 27 is cutting a lot of slack that the Texans will be that good next year, but regradless as it relates to this draft that #27th spot would yield a player maybe even David Pollack.

so would you trade for Pace and give up Dunta Robinson & Jason Babin?
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You don't know that and we aren't looking to deal Dunta or Babin. You assume that we land that caliber of player in the draft but reality is that it is simply unknown. I'm not into fantasy make believe speculation trumping real world situations. The facts are simple, Pace is a Hall of Fame tackle who would make Pitts better, AJ better, Carr better and Dom Davis better. He allows us to give help to Wade on the right side and would make us an instant playoff contender. The guy we pick at 13 may or may not be a player. Next year we likely have a lower pick...and he may or may not be a player. We know exactly what Pace is, a dominant Hall of Fame LT. There has only been perhaps one linemen rated as high as him coming out of College since he was drafted.
 
Hervoyel said:
And if I had Pace at LT and knew I was going to throw the ball I'd line Seth Wand up at TE on the right of Wade and then Freeney would view the play from his backside.
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If you want to get an all pro LT, why would you still wan't to use another LT to block Freeney? Why not keep what you have and use to LT's to block him?
 
Hervoyel said:
Honestly I'd gladly give them the two #1's (2005 and 2006) for Pace, particularly if it means keeping Wand instead of sending him to the Rams. People talk about Wand going to waste here if we've got Pace but if Wand has the kind of ability that the Texans thought they saw in him I could see him pushing Wade eventually.
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Interesting Herv, so if you feel that strongly abount Wand (or atleast his
potential), why would you support this transaction to acquire OP, especially
if it would cost this & next years #1.
 
Hervoyel said:
And if I had Pace at LT and knew I was going to throw the ball I'd line Seth Wand up at TE on the right of Wade and then Freeney would view the play from his backside.
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True. Unfortunately, that would leave us with four receivers against seven defenders. I kinda liked how the Patriots handled him. They would have a back, tight end, or receiver chip Freeney and then go out for a short pass.
 
Obviously starting Orlando Pace at LT is an upgrade over starting Seth Wand at LT right? Does that mean there's no spot for Seth Wand on our team? Of course not. Who's going to back up Orlando Pace? Who could also get work at RT if necessary? The answer is Seth Wand.

Now in 2003 Wand got some work lining up as an extra TE when we needed help in pass protection. The team thought it was a good idea to get him into a game or two even if it was just in certain obvious passing situations which brings me to what I was talking about.

If Freeney is over on the right side running around Todd Wade and causing problems you give Wade help. If you have Seth Wand on your roster and find yourself in an obvious passing situation where you plan on keeping a TE in to help block (because Wade is getting run over rememeber) then make that TE Wand and make Freeney a non factor. If Freeney is running over anyone (be it right side or left) then we're probably going to give that side some help with a TE, that's all I'm saying.
 
nunusguy said:
Interesting Herv, so if you feel that strongly abount Wand (or atleast his
potential), why would you support this transaction to acquire OP, especially
if it would cost this & next years #1.
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Pace is a very special player. There aren't a lot of LT's out there that are in his league so yes obviously I think he's worth the pair of 1's he would cost.

I do feel strongly about Wand but I also remember that Wand was a surprise starter last season. At the beginning of the year we were all a bit shocked that Wand was supposedly ready to go. He'd been described as a project since the day he was selected so when they said he was our starting LT I was like "Whoa, that was fast". One minute I'm hearing that he lacks strength and needs time to acclimate to the speed of the NFL and it seems like the next minute I'm hearing them say "Ok, he's ready".

And he didn't do half bad last year all things considered. I don't however think that what we saw from him last year was as good as it's going to get. I think he needs more time and more work. I think he'd be an outstanding backup to both Pace and Wade, and I believe that if he's got what the Texans think in the way of upside he might very well be starting ahead of Wade someday.

So in short I take Pace over Wand as my starter but I don't let go of Wand if I can help it because I think he's got a role to play here and could also be something special down the road. Maybe not Orlando Pace special but then how many of them do you see out there anyway.
 
Youngstown Colt said:
If you want to get an all pro LT, why would you still wan't to use another LT to block Freeney? Why not keep what you have and use to LT's to block him?
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He is saying if Pace was out LT and Freeney moved over the the left (against the right side of the Texans line) to avoid him, then the Texans could counter by putting Wand at TE to assist Wade with Freeney.
 
DC_ROCK said:
Is Vinny under oath here? haha
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your right DC :heh: Vinny is like the teflon man nothing sticks, on one hand he responds to a thread like this-
DC_ROCK said:
Would you give up #12 pick, Jimmy Kennedy, & #24 pick, Steven Jackson, for the rights to sign someone like Pace?
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then a response like this-
Vinny said:
I would. Kennedy is not real special and a back close to Jackson is much easier to find than dominant LT's.
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now change the question but not the intenet-
beerlover said:
how about the two players the Texans aquired last season Dunta Robinson (#10) and Jason Babin (#27) would you trade both of those players for Orlando Pace? :cool:
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and the response is-
Vinny said:
We aren't looking at a top-10 pick in this weak draft, next year I anticipate we have a 20-something selection and Pace would be the best position player on our team as soon as he signed outside of perhaps AJ. Pace instantly makes us a playoff contender imo.
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then the indictment-
beerlover said:
its close enough Vinny answear the question please. Dunta @ #10 is comparable to one of the CB's who will be there (#13) either Pac Man, Rogers or Miller, and Babin @ 27 is cutting a lot of slack that the Texans will be that good next year, but regradless as it relates to this draft that #27th spot would yield a player maybe even David Pollack.

so would you trade for Pace and give up Dunta Robinson & Jason Babin?
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the rebutal-
Vinny said:
You don't know that and we aren't looking to deal Dunta or Babin. You assume that we land that caliber of player in the draft but reality is that it is simply unknown. I'm not into fantasy make believe speculation trumping real world situations. The facts are simple, Pace is a Hall of Fame tackle who would make Pitts better, AJ better, Carr better and Dom Davis better. He allows us to give help to Wade on the right side and would make us an instant playoff contender. The guy we pick at 13 may or may not be a player. Next year we likely have a lower pick...and he may or may not be a player. We know exactly what Pace is, a dominant Hall of Fame LT. There has only been perhaps one linemen rated as high as him coming out of College since he was drafted.
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I thought it was a straight forward question given the circumstances just a yes or no would do :)
 
I was really not feeling this yesterday, but I'm really warming up to the idea. I just hope Pace isn't just using us to play off the Rams with no intention of coming here.
 
I love how these Ram fans come over here saying how dumb we are for trading for a fat lazy *** player, and then when it looks like the deal might go through, they talk about how he is the savior of their passing offense.
 
I think this would be great if they signed him. I mean, this guy automatically locks on our line. Sure we lose out on a couple draft picks BUT a proven commodity vs 2 maybe's...

I know the claim is that we don't want to play in the FA market but come one, I think this is one they should definitly make the push for.

I know this added absolutly nothing to the conversation...

Oh well, just like to hear myself type. :listening
 
DC_ROCK said:
I love how these Ram fans come over here saying how dumb we are for trading for a fat lazy *** player, and then when it looks like the deal might go through, they talk about how he is the savior of their passing offense.
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I most certainly don't think the Texans are dumb for pursuing Pace. But why do Texans fans think it is dumb to compensate the Rams with 2 1st Rounders? If he's that good - and he is - and he'll get you to the playoffs (no big deal for you guys?), then give them up.

Personally, I'd much rather have this year's 1st Rounder, a 3rd this year, and Wand, but its not up to me.
 
TheOgre said:
He is saying if Pace was out LT and Freeney moved over the the left (against the right side of the Texans line) to avoid him, then the Texans could counter by putting Wand at TE to assist Wade with Freeney.
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Yeah, but why would Freeney go to the right side, he took ogden 1 on 1, and Ogden is a better LT. Freeney is just gonna do what he does.
 
First...as I understand it, we only have to give up both 1st rounders (2005 & 2006) if we trade for him AFTER he signs an offer sheet with ST. Louis. Doubt that will happen. I'm thinking that if the Texans get a deal done, it will be done before tomorrow at 3...give up our #13 and perhaps the 3rd we got for Henson (which we all know cost a 6th). With that scenario...I am not AS against it.
But I still say we should get Spencer, Brown or Baas for C in the draft this year. The sacks came up the middle for the most part. We'd probably need to trade down, pick up another second round pick, get the C in the 20's of the 1st...and then add D-line & DB youth in the 2nd & 3rd rounds.

Now let me go back with the rest of the peanuts. :woot
 
tacoman_j said:
...according to Carlton Thompson on 590 the fan in STL
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I heard that interview, also. He was voicing his opinion more than relaying information. It's not like Thompson has real good sources with the Texans. He didn't break the Pace story & didn't he state that JJ Moses was certain to be cut prior to the season opener? I'll wait for a credible source before believing what the Texans will or won't do.
 
infantrycak said:
The guys on 610 am this morning were speculating that Pitts would look like a pro-bowler at LG if he wasn't worried about assisting weak players on each side of him.

Ses, isn't the deadline 3 pm Wednesday?
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"The guys on 610" are so anti-Wand that they don't even realize the Texans scheme rarely had Pitts helping Wand. The Texans had Wand one on one while pass blocking almost all the time.

I guess if he was a frequent guest on their show he'd be much better on the field - in their opinion.
 
Team-Sport said:
I most certainly don't think the Texans are dumb for pursuing Pace. But why do Texans fans think it is dumb to compensate the Rams with 2 1st Rounders? If he's that good - and he is - and he'll get you to the playoffs (no big deal for you guys?), then give them up.

Personally, I'd much rather have this year's 1st Rounder, a 3rd this year, and Wand, but its not up to me.
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You contradict yourself.
 
Team-Sport said:
I most certainly don't think the Texans are dumb for pursuing Pace. But why do Texans fans think it is dumb to compensate the Rams with 2 1st Rounders? If he's that good - and he is - and he'll get you to the playoffs (no big deal for you guys?), then give them up.
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Our team has a long term plan. Mortgaging the future for a chance right now may is one way to manage the salary cap/free agency era, but it's not the Texans' way.
 
Runner said:
"The guys on 610" are so anti-Wand that they don't even realize the Texans scheme rarely had Pitts helping Wand. The Texans had Wand one on one while pass blocking almost all the time.
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I think Lance has a clue that Guards and Tackles help each other. His Dad (or someone close in his family) is a NFL O-Line coach.
 
Team-Sport said:
I most certainly don't think the Texans are dumb for pursuing Pace. But why do Texans fans think it is dumb to compensate the Rams with 2 1st Rounders? If he's that good - and he is - and he'll get you to the playoffs (no big deal for you guys?), then give them up.

Personally, I'd much rather have this year's 1st Rounder, a 3rd this year, and Wand, but its not up to me.
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Dont get me wrong, I know Pace is an extraordinary player. But do you realize just how much 2 first round picks are?

I think a fair offer would be Wand, our #13 pick, and a 3rd round pick.
 
infantrycak said:
The guys on 610 am this morning were speculating that Pitts would look like a pro-bowler at LG if he wasn't worried about assisting weak players on each side of him.
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I think that's the best part of this deal. We'd pick up two Pro Bowlers for the price of one. Pace is and will be a Pro Bowler in his own right, but if Pitts is allowed to concentrate on his duties and responsibilities and not have to worry about helping Pace or McKinney he'd be a Pro Bowler as well. Even with Pace our OLine troubles are still there as long as McKinney is the starting C, but I think the Texans are going to try and address that position as well.
 
if we land Pace not only will the passing game be better the running game would benifit as well. opposing defences will drop back for the pass which will open lanes for DD.


with pace
DD 1400 yard rushing season 21tds and 700 yard recieving 8tds
DC 4000 yard passing 31 tds
AJ 1200 yards recieving 14tds
 
Team-Sport said:
How did I contradict myself?
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You said we are dumb for pursuing him but then you boast about his talent and say we should pay the price for him. If he's that good we can't be that dumb. It seems you're arguing both sides.
 
M@DD Mike said:
You said we are dumb for pursuing him but then you boast about his talent and say we should pay the price for him. If he's that good we can't be that dumb. It seems you're arguing both sides.
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My apologies I misread.
 
Team-Sports thinks we should pay two 1st rounders for Pace. He goes on to say he personally would prefer our 2005 1st and 3rd, as well as Seth Wand.

Clearly he thinks:
2006 1st < 2005 3rd + Seth Wand

He isn't contridicting himself. He is merely saying that we should pay AT LEAST the equivalent of two 1st rounders. He views his proposal with Wand as more valuable than that.

I hope we don't use two 1st rounders (or their equivalent) to get this done. I could live with trading a 1st and Wade or Wand, though, or a 1st and a 3rd.
 
M@DD Mike said:
You said we are dumb for pursuing him but then you boast about his talent and say we should pay the price for him. If he's that good we can't be that dumb. It seems you're arguing both sides.
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No, he specifically said that he did not think the Texans we're dumb for pursuing Pace.
 
texansfan1974 said:
if we land Pace not only will the passing game be better the running game would benifit as well. opposing defences will drop back for the pass which will open lanes for DD.


with pace
DD 1400 yard rushing season 21tds and 700 yard recieving 8tds
DC 4000 yard passing 31 tds
AJ 1200 yards recieving 14tds
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That gives me a :thumbup woody!!!! :whistle:
 
So when does anyone think we are going to get a decision on what St. Louis is going to do? I know tomorrow is the deadline but I wonder when we'll get an indication of something you know?
 
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