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One great game, and everyone proclaims VY our saviour

TexanSam

TexanSam

Hall of Fame
David Carr is not the problem for the Texans. Drafting Vince Young will not make us better. Heck, drafting Bush won't make us a whole lot better. We need a lot of help on this team, but QB is not one of them.

Carr has had a cruddy O-line all 4 seasons. If we drafted Young, and we had this same O-line, he'd run around the whole time and sooner or later he's going to take a big hit and get hurt. We need at least 2 good offensive lineman. We need a tight end and a 2nd wide reciever (Reggie Wayne anyone? He's a FA). We need DD to stay healthy and let him be a 1300 yard RB. We need more weapons on this offense and we need to let Carr do what he does best. He's not a scrambler, let him be a pocket QB who can look at the field and watch the play develop. Vince Young is not our answer.
 
OPEN YOUR FRIGGIN EYES. All of the commentators are saying that VY had the GREATEST GAME of all time. Yeah we should stick with David frickin Carr instead. Having VY who is a Houstonian and a Texas legend would energize this city like nothing before. We should by all means stick behind a bust. Laughable man.
 
TexansFight said:
OPEN YOUR FRIGGIN EYES. All of the commentators are saying that VY had the GREATEST GAME of all time. Yeah we should stick with David frickin Carr instead. Having VY who is a Houstonian and a Texas legend would energize this city like nothing before. We should by all means stick behind a bust. Laughable man.
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But will you explain to me why you think Vince Young will make the Texans better? Because he can scramble? Yipee. He had arguably the greatest COLLEGE game of all time. Last I checked, the Texans were in the NFL. There's no sure bet than Vince Young will succeed in the NFL.
 
but reggie bush has a good season and suddenly he is the next barry sanders?? I bet the same people putting vince young down now were the same people fueling the reggie bush hype machine before this game. Leaders step up, frauds are exposed....reggie is NOT worthy of our #1 pick
 
swtbound07 said:
but reggie bush has a good season and suddenly he is the next barry sanders?? I bet the same people putting vince young down now were the same people fueling the reggie bush hype machine before this game. Leaders step up, frauds are exposed....reggie is NOT worthy of our #1 pick
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Reggie may not be worth our #1 pick. But neither is Vince Young. Let the Saints take Young. Let the Titans take him. Let the Jets take him. Let the Texans take someone who can help us. AJ Hawk. D'Brickashaw Ferguson. Not Young.
 
VY played great football tonight, no doubt. But let's not forget that he's had well below average days as well. He plays big in big games, which is a definite plus, but I also remember watching lackluster performances from him on several occasions even against poor defenses (ie. the UT-A&M game this year). At this point, it's very possible he'll be a better pro than Carr, but I'll tell you this: if we'd had Young instead of Carr these first four years, we wouldn't have been much better. We need to address the O-Line this offseason before this team can truly progress. That doesn't necessarily mean using the first choice on an OLineman, but it needs to be addressed now. It doesn't matter who you put behind center, they'll be destined to fail unless we give them some protection.
 
Well I do hope that Young does not go to the Titans. That would be a nightmare both on the field and regarding PR. Hopefully the Saints get him.
 
Hulk75 said:
Open your freaking eyes, he had 6 yards per pass, he can not read a Defense
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Young threw the ball 40 times (30 completions for 267) and ran it 20 times for a combined 467 yards. I think he did pretty well reading him some D.
 
blockhead83 said:
VY played great football tonight, no doubt. But let's not forget that he's had well below average days as well. He plays big in big games, which is a definite plus, but I also remember watching lackluster performances from him on several occasions even against poor defenses (ie. the UT-A&M game this year). At this point, it's very possible he'll be a better pro than Carr, but I'll tell you this: if we'd had Young instead of Carr these first four years, we wouldn't have been much better. We need to address the O-Line this offseason before this team can truly progress. That doesn't necessarily mean using the first choice on an OLineman, but it needs to be addressed now. It doesn't matter who you put behind center, they'll be destined to fail unless we give them some protection.
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Exactly. Completely Agree.
 
Young changes the way defenses have to deal with him. If you spy him you have to take someone out of coverage or the rush...the man has to come from somewhere, you can't just throw 12 guys out there to stop him. He continually made them pay for blitzing with his accurate passing finding the open man.
 
everyone who is opposed to both young and bush or pretty much drafting anyone or anything at all, college and the NFL are different levels. look at alex smith at SF. great QB in college, bad rookie season, but he still has time before people start saying "you suck".

if not having a better QB, offense, defense, coach, mascot, whatever, will benefit a program that is falling apart, then what will? choosing to just sit around and let the same crap happen over and over, 2-3 seasons later, carr is still the same level of performance, maybe he'll find one non-losing season, but not until we get a better oline. but apparently, people are opposed to that too. so, lets just give the colts our draft pick, so that the league can disown the franchise, then houston can say, "we want a football team", then the league'll say, we'll you've had two failing franchises in a row, although the oilers had their prime.

doesn't sound appealing, i just hope they pick something beneficial for the organization, and better coaches too.
 
TexansFight said:
OPEN YOUR FRIGGIN EYES. All of the commentators are saying that VY had the GREATEST GAME of all time. Yeah we should stick with David frickin Carr instead. Having VY who is a Houstonian and a Texas legend would energize this city like nothing before. We should by all means stick behind a bust. Laughable man.
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What does him being a Houstonian have to do with football?

VY needs 1 more year as a collegiate athlete. He will learn more at UT than he will running the Texans offense and spending his time being sacked 77 times with the Texans. He'll stay at UT just out of self preservation.

By the way those same commentators said Reggie was superman yesterday!!
 
:redtowel: I bet 6 yds per pass is better than Carr's 5.88 ypa this year . I also noticed Vince's team will give 110 % for their leader . Seems like a distant concept .
 
You can't blame Young for taking what USC gave him, he played a great game. No reason really to belittle it. As far as the next level however, which is all I care about, does he have the ability to make the hard out throw, the long pass over the middle to a WR in stride, and how poised will he be when defenses contain him like they do Vick?
 
the Best part of the VY performance.............he just made the third pick in the draft as valuable as the first.............I know at three we will be getting a stud.............you guys know you need D'Brick in the worst way............but will the FO have the balls to do it? I hope you do know RBush had an off game.................he had 275 yds of total O..............how good do you have to be to be able to call 275 of total O bad??????
 
Having a great performance by Young and good performace by Bush puts us in the sweetest position possible if Young and Bush declare for the draft. I can't see Young staying because there is nowhere else to go and his stock rose tonight. We have the chance to trade down and still get either.
 
TexanSam said:
Reggie may not be worth our #1 pick. But neither is Vince Young. Let the Saints take Young. Let the Titans take him. Let the Jets take him. Let the Texans take someone who can help us. AJ Hawk. D'Brickashaw Ferguson. Not Young.
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Will all the respect in the world, you are sooo pathetic. Help us? Take someone who can help us? The person who could help us is this phenom QB who people have been raving about since he was in high school, apparently. It's not a matter of one game, or one season. It's magic, it's history, it's Earl Campbell falling right into our hands, again.
 
Vince Young said:
"I went through all my progressions," Young said, "so I just took off with it."
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Going through progressions? What does that mean..? I don't think our offense does anything like that.:tv:

Vince ran because he could. Because he knows that he has the ability and will power to put it in the end zone one way or another. Carr runs because he panics, Young never looked worried or like things were beyond his control.

Edit - I just want to add this. Didn't Casserly have some sort of mancrush on Vick and wanted him to stay in school so we could take him #1 overall? If he drafts Young, he gets his Vick and the locals proclaim CC a hero (after trying to take a dump on him just a few days ago).

(Let me say that the goal of this isn't to compare the two but the similarities ARE there.)
 
Nighthawk said:
Will all the respect in the world, you are sooo pathetic. Help us? Take someone who can help us? The person who could help us is this phenom QB who people have been raving about since he was in high school, apparently. It's not a matter of one game, or one season. It's magic, it's history, it's Earl Campbell falling right into our hands, again.
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But will you explain to me why he'll help us? If he has our same "weapons" on offense as we do now, he won't do much better than Carr. Having only AJ to throw it to. Having Jonathan Wells starting 1/3rd of the season. Having one of the worst O-lines in the history of the NFL. A QB is not what we need.
 
tulexan said:
We already have Earl Campbell falling right into our hands with Reggie Bush.
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how in the WORLD do you compare Earl Campbell to reggie bush. That is ignorance and blasphemy....one of the greatest power runners of our time is being compared to a flashy outside back? what the heck is that.....Reggie bush is Reggie Bush...no more, no less.
 
TexanSam said:
David Carr is not the problem for the Texans. Drafting Vince Young will not make us better. Heck, drafting Bush won't make us a whole lot better. We need a lot of help on this team, but QB is not one of them.

Carr has had a cruddy O-line all 4 seasons. If we drafted Young, and we had this same O-line, he'd run around the whole time and sooner or later he's going to take a big hit and get hurt. We need at least 2 good offensive lineman. We need a tight end and a 2nd wide reciever (Reggie Wayne anyone? He's a FA). We need DD to stay healthy and let him be a 1300 yard RB. We need more weapons on this offense and we need to let Carr do what he does best. He's not a scrambler, let him be a pocket QB who can look at the field and watch the play develop. Vince Young is not our answer.
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One thing Carr hasn't had is competition. San Diego drafted Philip Rivers and it lit a fire under Drew Brees. Keep Carr and draft Young.
 
bckey said:
One thing Carr hasn't had is competition. San Diego drafted Philip Rivers and it lit a fire under Drew Brees. Keep Carr and draft Young.
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I don't think that's the type of competition Carr needs. If Carr needs competition, let us sign a veteran QB. I would take Jon Kitna. I don't know if he's available, but if he is take him if you want competition. He had a good year in 2002, the year before Carson took over. And don't try the "Banks is also a veteran, he should be pushing Carr". Banks started in what, one year in the NFL?
 
swtbound07 said:
how in the WORLD do you compare Earl Campbell to reggie bush. That is ignorance and blasphemy....one of the greatest power runners of our time is being compared to a flashy outside back? what the heck is that.....Reggie bush is Reggie Bush...no more, no less.
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Reggie Bush is just as comparable to Earl Campbell as Vince Young, if anything more comparable because he plays running back where Vince Young plays quarter back. You can compare Vince to Cunningham, Vick, or any other quarter back, but comparing him to a running back makes no sense. Does anyone compare Clinton Portis to Lawrence Taylor? Of course not because they play different positions.

And you don't draft a quarter back with the number one pick to light a fire under David Carr. $50 Million is a pretty big investment for motivation.
 
swtbound07 said:
how in the WORLD do you compare Earl Campbell to reggie bush. That is ignorance and blasphemy....one of the greatest power runners of our time is being compared to a flashy outside back? what the heck is that.....Reggie bush is Reggie Bush...no more, no less.
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Yeah, I agree. Bush is a flashy PART TIME back, too.

Vince Young, on the other hand, seems like the kind of player that picks the team up and carries it over the hump. That's what Campbell was. Seeing some of those old runs of Campbell's still makes me weep.
 
tulexan said:
Reggie Bush is just as comparable to Earl Campbell as Vince Young, if anything more comparable because he plays running back where Vince Young plays quarter back. You can compare Vince to Cunningham, Vick, or any other quarter back, but comparing him to a running back makes no sense. Does anyone compare Clinton Portis to Lawrence Taylor? Of course not because they play different positions.

And you don't draft a quarter back with the number one pick to light a fire under David Carr. $50 Million is a pretty big investment for motivation.
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What you are saying, when you compare Vince Young to Earl, is that Vince Young will have the same kind of impact on the team that gets him as Earl had on the Oilers.

The position Young plays is immaterial, except that it puts him in a position to have that kind of impact overall.

Obviously, as one is a QB and one a power RB, you're not literally comparing their technical abilities in their areas, except possibly in the sense that they are both one-of-a-kind players in there individual areas.

Thank you.
 
Some of you people need to get off this kick of they are from Texas so they need to play in Houston.Who cares where they are from if they can play ball.
 
i didnt say vince young was comparable to earl campbell...in any way shape or form. PERIOD. Earl campbell is a legend, and one of the greatest. I just said its ridiculous to make any comparison between earl and reggie bush. Gee, they both played running back....that all you got?
 
bckey said:
One thing Carr hasn't had is competition. San Diego drafted Philip Rivers and it lit a fire under Drew Brees. Keep Carr and draft Young.
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I agree Carr needs competition!:ok: If it is not Young at least have someone that has his work ethics... Here is a quote from one of Young's teamate:

DAVID THOMAS: I think that the thing that makes him so good is he's just one of the guys. He's such a great player and a great athlete, but at the same time he wants to hang out and relax and have fun with us. He's such a good leader because a lot of quarterbacks are sitting in the back and not working that hard, but he's right in the middle of all of us, running with us and lifting weights, and that means a lot to us to know that he's working just as hard as we are and he wants it just as bad as we do.
------------------------------------------------------
http://www.pac-10.org/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/010206aaa.html

Hope everyone in the TEXANS Oganization has this type of work ethics!:twocents:
 
Most everyone on here and from what i've heard on the radio don't realize if VY comes to the Texans next year, he is going to go through growing pains.
Can Texans fans deal w/that for another 3 years give or take? I don't think so.

Carr has had his growing pains and can only go up now. Give him the reigns one more year. Improve the line, draft Bush, draft whoever, hire whatever coach, just give Carr some new supporting cast members and the Texans will be alright next year and the years to come.
 
People on this board confuse me....you're saying we dont take vince and grab bush cus we already have carr.... don't we already have davis? Then you say Vince Young won't succeed with the same offensive weapons around him.... Well we will have more weapons next year via the draft and free agency... All i know is we are better off taking Vince with the first pick then we are with Bush with the first pick.
 
I would absolutely HATE to be the GM right now. If you take Bush and Young becomes good, then Houston will go nuts. If you take Young and he is a bust, while Bush turns into "Gale Sayers" himself, another problem there. If we trade down for more picks, the general public will go nuts. It has a possiblity of a lose/lose/lose situation. Of course it could turn out great too......
 
dtran04 said:
I would absolutely HATE to be the GM right now. If you take Bush and Young becomes good, then Houston will go nuts. If you take Young and he is a bust, while Bush turns into "Gale Sayers" himself, another problem there. If we trade down for more picks, the general public will go nuts. It has a possiblity of a lose/lose/lose situation. Of course it could turn out great too......
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Another thing that could be funny is what if Bush comes here and looks great. Are the naysayers going to say, "well look, our O-line finally grew up and the late picks worked" or are they going to eat crow. Where I agree with the original post that vince isn't the automatic answer, I also don't belive that you just draft an line and DD is a stud and can stay healthy. I am not sure if people realize that there is a difference between a game breaker, someone that could have won those close games for us this year, and a DD who puts in his yards but doesn't win games. I know the line is maligned but has anyone else noticed that they still don't key on DD, even if he has 150 yards?They blitz because they know DD won't beat the, Gamebreakers like Bush can beat them. It is no coincidence that Leinart had all day to throw.
 
HoustonFrog said:
It is no coincidence that Leinart had all day to throw.
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I also think a major factor in his "time to throw" was his pocket presence. He could move just a little and give himself more time. He did this continually against Texas, ND, and Fresno State (the only times I watched him play) and I think it is one of his great strengths.


p.s. I said something nice about Leinart, but I do not mean to imply that I think Young sucks, we should draft Leinart, Bush is overrated, or the sun revolves around the earth.
 
dtran04 said:
I would absolutely HATE to be the GM right now. If you take Bush and Young becomes good, then Houston will go nuts. If you take Young and he is a bust, while Bush turns into "Gale Sayers" himself, another problem there. If we trade down for more picks, the general public will go nuts. It has a possiblity of a lose/lose/lose situation. Of course it could turn out great too......
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This is what I was just thinking after reading all these posts. Pick either one, and you immediately alienate half your fans and they start calling you out for picking the "wrong" one.

The fact of the matter is that this 2-14 Texans team will make either Bush or Young look bad. One player will not magically turn this team around. So regardless of who we pick, the general perception will be it was the wrong one, because they other guy could just as easily succeed with whatever team picked him.

There are some fundamental issue the Texans must address to make either Bush or Young succeed. Without a consistent o-line, both players will look like the rookies they are. No amount of juking and jiving will make a player go through a hole that doesn't exist.
 
axman40 said:
If I am the GM I draft VY or Lendale White end of story!
:cool:
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And still have no blocking. THat makes no sense to me. Is there anyone here that agrees we need offensive linemen that can block? We need them long before we need running back or quarterbacks. We are fine with the backs we have now. Well not we, I don't play, but the Texans. I just don't get all the drool over qb and rbs.
 
My favorite thing about Vince was his postgame interview where he said, "After reading that my first three options weren't open..."

FIRST THREE OPTIONS???? You mean, QB's aren't supposed to lock onto one WR and follow him the whole time?? A QB that actually 'reads' defenses and then make the throw accordingly? WOW!

Sorry David, you're reign may have come to an abrupt end!
 
DRAMA said:
My favorite thing about Vince was his postgame interview where he said, "After reading that my first three options weren't open..."

FIRST THREE OPTIONS???? You mean, QB's aren't supposed to lock onto one WR and follow him the whole time?? A QB that actually 'reads' defenses and then make the throw accordingly? WOW!

Sorry David, you're reign may have come to an abrupt end!
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Well, to cut DC a little slack, .08 seconds is not really enough time in a collapsing pocket to make more than one read and turn tail for an escape plan. I'm afraid VY wouldn't look any better than Carr behind the 2-14 Texans offense.

That being said, I'm still unsure how much defense DC can read even given time in the pocket. Guess time will tell.
 
Hulk75 said:
Open your freaking eyes, he had 6 yards per pass, he can not read a Defense THAT IS WHY HE RUNS and Why Vick runs, USC is not a NFL type Defense I would pay to see this guy play the Ravens or a team like that or to face a Pass rush like the ones in the NFL.
Pretty easy to do things when playing against a USC D that was so undiscipline it was stupid. OUTSIDE CONTAIN and TACKLING should be USC moto next season cause they sucked it up. He dose not run a O anything like you would see in the league.
Vincent Young= Andre Ware.:cool:
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Young completed passes to 7 different receivers. Carr did not even avg 5 yds
per attempt.
 
Hey Hulk75! I just wanted to be the first to let you know it's working. You are proving to every person on here that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about and don't watch college football unless your girlfriend makes you. Vince didn't hike the ball and immeadiatly start running up the sideline or through the line. He sat and read his receivers and then when the oppurtunity arose he ran. I like to discuss facts not fantasy. Get a grip
 
I am really having a hard time deciding what I'd do if I was a GM.
I still like Bush, and last night's game doesn't suddenly make me doubt his talent. The thing that took him out of his game was the lateral that he attempted, and that is an area that is coachable.
I'd go as far as to say that he will never have this particular problem again. He obviously took it pretty hard and let it affect his game. A little more maturity should help him shake off set backs like this as his NFL career progresses and not let it take him out of his game.
It is interesting that the guy had 270ish total yards and a td, but people are considering it a bad game.
I suppose in the bright light of VY's game, Reggie's game paled quite a bit, and he wasn't a diiference maker except a handful of plays.

As far as VY... what can you say? The guy had what is arguably the best individual game in the history of college football on the biggest possible stage against the best opponent.
It truely was incredible...!
Out of VY's performance, I can find one area that bothers me.
I (as a Longhorn fan) found myself nervous on more than one occasion when he passed the ball because I felt he was putting too much loft under the ball.
I just felt like the ball was kind of hanging up there a little more than it should.
To be fair, VY may have known that his target was wide open enough that he could afford to put it in there like that. Still, it had me nervous, and I coudn't help thinking several times "that ball gets picked in the NFL".
This too is a coachable area, so it shouldn't be of major concern. I know he has a strong enough arm to address this (IMO) problem.
There is some debate whether RB or VY can translate their games to the next level, but I think this debate is kind of pointless. I mean, these guys did all they could do for many games (not just this one) on the highest possible level.
That is all any college player can ever do, and it is next to impossible to predict any player's ability to succeed in the NFL.
Oh sure, it can and will be debated, but the point is that you can't ask any more of these two players than what they've done.

So the debate rages, and I'm unsure. I think that both of these guys could help the Texans. I think they will both have success on the next level.
I can also understand the view of people that believe that we should trade this pick, but I reject that out of hand.
Considering the (lack of) effectiveness of our other trade up/down scenarios in the past, I think there is too much potential for error. The idea has merit, but there is potential for a disaster both in the effect on the team on the field, and PR wise.
To me, the descision will come down to these two, and if I had to guess, I'd say that the team still feels like it can win with Carr. Not saying I agree or disagree with them, but it looks like the team feels that way.

Sorry for being so long winded, especially at this point in an already long thread.
I hope it didn't hurt your eyes too much!
 
Double Barrel said:
Well, to cut DC a little slack, .08 seconds is not really enough time in a collapsing pocket to make more than one read and turn tail for an escape plan. I'm afraid VY wouldn't look any better than Carr behind the 2-14 Texans offense.

That being said, I'm still unsure how much defense DC can read even given time in the pocket. Guess time will tell.
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I do go a little hard on Carr but I guess it's because right now, I don't know who I want, who I like, who I want traded, who I want cut, who I want to coach, who I want at OC, who I want at DC, or if I sprained my ankle....


Ahh...the pre-draft months....it was the best of times - it was the worst of times. I can honestly say that if Vince comes out - I may..I may....

ahh, forget it! I'm going to stand infront of a mirror and bounce some my points of view off myself. MAybe I can influence myself to uhh...pick......uhh.....to pick.....
 
The way I see it, I would love it if Bush were to be drafted IF we can fine away to not screw the later rounds and improve our line via draft and free agency. Maybe even a TE that can catch AND block. If we can accomplish that, picture a David Carr with much more time due to pass protection, in ADDITION TO the threat of Reggie Bush breaking it loose. Also, Reggie and Davis could be a great pair. One goes inside, one goes outside, sharing carries also equals more production in a sense due to less change of injury (ie. Davis) I also like the idea of if the receivers are covered, boom, their is Reggie to grab the short pass, or maybe even Dominick Davis (he has proven he can be a great receiver in the short game). I dont know, but this is all starting to make sense to me now. VInce Young doesn't give you all of this.
 
TexanSam said:
David Carr is not the problem for the Texans. Drafting Vince Young will not make us better. Heck, drafting Bush won't make us a whole lot better. We need a lot of help on this team, but QB is not one of them.
Carr has had a cruddy O-line all 4 seasons. If we drafted Young, and we had this same O-line, he'd run around the whole time and sooner or later he's going to take a big hit and get hurt. We need at least 2 good offensive lineman. We need a tight end and a 2nd wide reciever (Reggie Wayne anyone? He's a FA). We need DD to stay healthy and let him be a 1300 yard RB. We need more weapons on this offense and we need to let Carr do what he does best. He's not a scrambler, let him be a pocket QB who can look at the field and watch the play develop. Vince Young is not our answer.
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Neither Bush or Young will be very productive if we don't have a decent OLine to block for them!!!!

Bobby 119C
 
TexanSam said:
David Carr is not the problem for the Texans. Drafting Vince Young will not make us better. Heck, drafting Bush won't make us a whole lot better. We need a lot of help on this team, but QB is not one of them.

Carr has had a cruddy O-line all 4 seasons. If we drafted Young, and we had this same O-line, he'd run around the whole time and sooner or later he's going to take a big hit and get hurt. We need at least 2 good offensive lineman. We need a tight end and a 2nd wide reciever (Reggie Wayne anyone? He's a FA). We need DD to stay healthy and let him be a 1300 yard RB. We need more weapons on this offense and we need to let Carr do what he does best. He's not a scrambler, let him be a pocket QB who can look at the field and watch the play develop. Vince Young is not our answer.
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David Carr is part of the problem. Draft VY put him on the bench for a yr.
So what if Texans suck again next yr. Have good draft picks for the following season. No way VY Starts 1st season! Look what happen to Carr? (shell shocked) Look at Brady and Palmer sat out 1st yr to learn the game. The next yr you can draft cpl O-Lineman and FA. Look at Patriots they have 2 rookies playing on the left side of the O-Line.
 
touttail said:
Neither Bush or Young will be very productive if we don't have a decent OLine to block for them!!!!

Bobby 119C
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ding! ding! ding! A lone voice of reason in a sea of insanity. ;)

It's a tough call if both Bush and Young are available for the no. 1 pick. Not sure which way I'd lean at this point.

But the bigger picture is the rest of the team, because those cats are nothing but rookies with great potential if we are nothing more than a 2-14 team. O-line, first and foremost, has to be our primary concern. Then a viable #2 receiving threat, either with a solid TE or second receiver, should be second on the list. We've got to have 10 other solid players to make either Bush or Young shine.
 
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