I have always been a Carr Hater! I am not opposed to giving this guy one last chance. As I have said the last 2 billion posts.. If it was potential, I would be up on this guy. Maybe it was a training issue, but his ball placement and decision making is still sub-par at best right now. He could be good, but he aint yet.. He has alot to learn still and I hope the new coaching staff can help. I hope he can come back, but he has a long way to come and I feel he is running out of time.
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Hulk75
Veteran
Carr has had to go through more then just your average NFL QB troubles, too bad for him he was not picked by a Superbowl caliber team that was 1 year a way from a SB Championship.Titan "Tack" Fan said:
You want to talk about taking the LONG WAY, Hard way around something, take a look at Carr and what he has been through. Expantion team Rookie QB, how many of those are or were there in the history of the NFL......AHHHHH "1"......David Carr.
TwinSisters
Veteran
Hulk75 said:
Ugh Are you forgetting someone?
http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/member.jsp?player_id=209
Wasn't really sacked that much either
he even wrote a book on it...
"Better Scramble than Lose" by Fran Tarkenton
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
TwinSisters said:
He was awful and not fun to watch. Could not run or scramble as well as our inaugural pick either.
TwinSisters
Veteran
Kaiser Toro said:He was awful and not fun to watch. Could not run or scramble as well as our inaugural pick either.
He made the Pro Bowl MVP in his 4th season.
He had a so so coach in his first years with Van Brocklin, BUT he had a terrible team around him! ( in New York too ) It wasn't until Grant came along did things start to shape up for the Vikings. Tarkenton however, shined where ever he went ( 9 total Pro Bowls ).
Different time?... yes it was.
---
Also I want to point out another Carr theme that I peddle with great quarterbacks. Fran did not get along with Van Brocklin. ( Also Van Brocklin is not in the HOF for his coaching ability, he is there as a player.. just in case that gets confusing )
EDIT:
After going back and looking at him again... Tarkenton also had two Pro-Bowl OL with him in his 4th year! It's Casserly man, all Casserly... nobody would be here without him. Ain't that the truth...
BigTimeTexanFan
Rookie
Titan "Tack" Fan said:
Carr was drafted in 2002. This will be his 5th season. Just thought I'd point that out
Wolf
100% Texan
Carr has the tools to get the job done.. He has some weapons around him now and at least on paper an offensive line that is legit
It is up to Kubiak to use some of his magic and get Carr's head straight (i.e. get the game to slow down for him and watch downfield and not the rush)
Biggest improvements that should bolster Carr's performance (I would think he should be in line with his stats of 2004)
obvious is AJ and DD
next best improvement Moulds instead of Bradford(too bad Gaffney didn't stay, I like him as slot receiver)
A legit Center... maybe Flannigan can keep the DT from collapsing the pocket in front of Carr
and most important on my list for Carr's development.. legit 2 way TE's
It is up to Kubiak to use some of his magic and get Carr's head straight (i.e. get the game to slow down for him and watch downfield and not the rush)
Biggest improvements that should bolster Carr's performance (I would think he should be in line with his stats of 2004)
obvious is AJ and DD
next best improvement Moulds instead of Bradford(too bad Gaffney didn't stay, I like him as slot receiver)
A legit Center... maybe Flannigan can keep the DT from collapsing the pocket in front of Carr
and most important on my list for Carr's development.. legit 2 way TE's
Wolf
100% Texan
I hope I am not wrong ,but my last post, I jumped ahead of myself..the actual most improvement that needs to happen is Kubiak getting Carr's head on straight (the ole seeing downfield instead of the rush..and just letting the game slow down for him)..like it did in college after he redshirted
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
The fact is Carr and Mario are a better option than Fran and Vince .
Wolf
100% Texan
http://www.houstonprofootball.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=6333
has some interesting posts about Carr and some of the things being reported on the radio
has some interesting posts about Carr and some of the things being reported on the radio
powerfuldragon
Enchilada Aficionado.
Asking a texans MB if they think carr will be good this year is like asking Jesse Jackson if he likes to talk.
I don't post as much over here, BigTex. So I doubt alot of current members know that I think Carr sucks, unless they are the older members of this board.
and all this poll proves is 85% of the respondants don't know the difference between a real NFL QB, and a 'has been that never was' QB, like Carr.
I bet you can assume which way I voted.
mancunian
Old Timer
The Titan fan sent me a PM asking what I thought of DC and why I was behind him this was my reply:
Well your right he hasn't set the world on fire yet, but this coming season will prove whether he can do it.
Dont get me wrong I'm not blind to his faults, his decision making needs to improve for a start but I believe he has the ability to be a very good QB. He's no Manning or Brady but he can be in the top 10.
There's one game that stands out for me which was the Vikings game the season before last where he orchestrated a comeback to take it into OT and if I remember that same year he also played a blinder against the Titans.
For four years the previous coaching staff ignored the O line - and we gave up over 200 sacks in 4 years!! Some of those were Carr's fault - running out of bounds behind the line of scrimmage for example. But 4 years of being pounding is going to make you feel a little shaky.
Kubiak I think can restore that confidence, he's building an Oline that can protect our QB and we have seen in the past that when he is given time Carr is as good as 90% of the QB's in the league.
Look at Mike Vicks figures for last year and compare them to Carrs. There's very little in it, in fact Carr had a higher % completion rate - just over 60% where Vick was around the mid 50's.
I'm not the only Texan that supports Carr, and I know there a few that dont rate him. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt as he is the QB of the team I support.
However if can't or doesn't improve behind a revamped O line and under a offensive minded coach then I'll admit I was wrong and that Carr is not the answer.
Well your right he hasn't set the world on fire yet, but this coming season will prove whether he can do it.
Dont get me wrong I'm not blind to his faults, his decision making needs to improve for a start but I believe he has the ability to be a very good QB. He's no Manning or Brady but he can be in the top 10.
There's one game that stands out for me which was the Vikings game the season before last where he orchestrated a comeback to take it into OT and if I remember that same year he also played a blinder against the Titans.
For four years the previous coaching staff ignored the O line - and we gave up over 200 sacks in 4 years!! Some of those were Carr's fault - running out of bounds behind the line of scrimmage for example. But 4 years of being pounding is going to make you feel a little shaky.
Kubiak I think can restore that confidence, he's building an Oline that can protect our QB and we have seen in the past that when he is given time Carr is as good as 90% of the QB's in the league.
Look at Mike Vicks figures for last year and compare them to Carrs. There's very little in it, in fact Carr had a higher % completion rate - just over 60% where Vick was around the mid 50's.
I'm not the only Texan that supports Carr, and I know there a few that dont rate him. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt as he is the QB of the team I support.
However if can't or doesn't improve behind a revamped O line and under a offensive minded coach then I'll admit I was wrong and that Carr is not the answer.
johnny_tlmn said:Exactly, I just can't assume who'd vote no thats what intrigues me the most.
Have to be the "not-die-hard Texan fans."
Oh... so I am not a Texans fan now for voting my feelings on Carr. Or at least not a die heart fan you say. I say your full of 'insert creative explitive here' and to call me any less then a die-hard fan is the worst statement you have made on this board. If you believe in Carr, I wont down you, I just feel you are incorrect on what he can do. Could he be a contender for being a great QB, oh yes he could. But right now.. he is so far from being one, you need to see the light. His passes are strong, but are inaccurate enough for me. His ball placement makes some WR's take hits they shouldnt and other passes are just horrible. His consistance is lacking, and he has at times been a drive killer, instead of a play maker. Dont even get me started on his decision making abilities. Can coaching help, yes. Even I have said I would like to see him this year to see if he can produce. If he has a oline, and can stand up for a few seconds to make a pass, and still cant get it done.. then there will be no excuses.
By the way.. in case you missed it.. I voted NO. I am probably one of the dozens of the strongest fans they have, and to question that shows... no... I will hold my tongue for now.
NATHANHALE
Waterboy
Hulk75 said:
Carr had problems with the rush in college. He was sacked 30 times his SR year and 25 times his JR year, which is a lot of sacks for a college QB. Too, his SR year he rushed 94 times for 67 yds (.7 avg), which is a clear indication he was trying to avoid the rush and means he was very close to having a 'bunch' of sacks. Remember, though, he will not be strictly a pocket passer in Kubiak's offense, as he will be throwing on the run by desgn---something Carr has never done before.
NATHANHALE
Waterboy
johnny_tlmn said:
Your poll was the easy part and in no way guarantees Carr's performance next year or there after. It's kinda like writing Santa a letter for a horse, and then waking up Christmas Day to find he left you one of those sticks with a plastic horse's head on it. You got the results you wanted for your poll--let's hope we get some results now.
Actually, you need to start another poll that ask---
What is going to happen first?
A) Carr becomes a great/good QB
B) Fans run out of excuses for Carr
C) Neither
bigbrewster2000
Veteran
In college, a sack is considered a negative run, so he probably actually had around 60 rush attempts for 115-175 yds. And I voted yes and like most others, I am well aware of Carr's faults (all of them) but he gets the benifit of the doubt until I see what he can do in this new Offense.NATHANHALE said:
TheCD
Rookie
One of the reasons that I will defend Carr is that EVERY professional sports announcer I have seen (with the exception of that moron Shannon Sharpe) has said that Carr has it and will be amazing if put in the right situation.
I know they're only human and get things wrong nowt and then...but I'll trust ALL of these people who are paid millions to criticize players' talent and have access to who know how many films involving the players over us...who generally see a game once and base our opinions on that.
I know they're only human and get things wrong nowt and then...but I'll trust ALL of these people who are paid millions to criticize players' talent and have access to who know how many films involving the players over us...who generally see a game once and base our opinions on that.
Hulk75
Veteran
I am going to have to see a stat/link..........He was not sacked 30 times his SR year. I heard 7.NATHANHALE said:
MY BAD ONLY 15.............
http://bengals.enquirer.com/2002/11/02/Bengals02.html
And Carr does not know how to throw on the run, WhAt???
NATHANHALE
Waterboy
Hulk75 said:
http://gobulldogs.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/070902aaa.html
If you look down where it says sacks/yds, it says Fresno State 31--since Carr made all but about 9 offensive plays that year, who do you think got those sacks? Too, when has Carr thrown on the run? He was strictly a pocket passer in college and has thrown on the run very little in the pros, going out of bounds or into the fetal position.
Carr's rushing stats
14 94 260 193 67 0.7 5 14 4.8
94-attempts 260-plus yds 193-negative yds 67-net 0.7-avg 4.8-total yds per game
TwinSisters
Veteran
mancunian said:
Casserly was the Senior Executive Officer Vice President Director of Football Operations and General Manager. Casserly did not fix the problem on the line.
( It's not Capers who scouted and signed Texans )
The 4 vets added to the offensive line are almost all directly related to Kubiak and Sherman somehow. ( Which means Casserly most likely didn't have anything to do with bringing them here ).
We have changed the offense for Carr several times now, and none of the changes have worked for him.
http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=116&p=9&c=2&cid=433967&nid=2473062&fhn=1
Shorter drops earned him a 5 yard per pass average and he fell just shy of breaking his own Hall of Fame sack record last season.
Worthy to start......... worthy of this 4 year waiting period....... worthy of this unhealthy adulation......... worthy of yet another thread..... If we look hard enough, we will find something he is, and is not worthy of.
I've not voted on this poll, because I feel it is a bit Vague...... don't want anybody to misconstrue what I say.
There are definitely different groups of Carr Haters...... I'm in the group that says no one else (in the modern football era) has had more than 4 years to develop....... with the same team. I doubt there is one team, that let go an underperforming QB, then later say,"Man I wish we hadn't done that"
I've not voted on this poll, because I feel it is a bit Vague...... don't want anybody to misconstrue what I say.
Kaiser Toro said:
There are definitely different groups of Carr Haters...... I'm in the group that says no one else (in the modern football era) has had more than 4 years to develop....... with the same team. I doubt there is one team, that let go an underperforming QB, then later say,"Man I wish we hadn't done that"
TwinSisters
Veteran
thunderkyss said:
Ugh...
Tampa - Steve Young
Atlanta - Brett Favre
powerfuldragon
Enchilada Aficionado.
No one else needs an abacus to count how many times they've been sacked.thunderkyss said:
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
TwinSisters said:Ugh...
Tampa - Steve Young
Atlanta - Brett Favre
Are you implying that Brett Favre was a top pick and was meant to be a cornerstone of the Falcons for years?
MorKnolle
All Pro
TwinSisters said:Ugh...
Tampa - Steve Young
Atlanta - Brett Favre
Brett Favre was a high 2nd round pick and only attempted 5 passes for Atlanta that first year, so I don't know if he qualifies under the original quesiton (an underperforming QB that was let go - I don't know if he really had the chance to "underperform" other than on the practice field), although I am sure they still regret letting him go. Steve Young did play 19 games in 2 seasons for Tampa Bay and didn't accomplish much there, although if I'm not mistaken he played in the USFL or one of those other leagues for a year after being drafted into the NFL.
TwinSisters
Veteran
Kaiser Toro said:
No.
They wished they had him back after cutting him for being underdeveloped though.
( I am not really sure about Steve Young... I think the USFL something to do with him )
TwinSisters
Veteran
MorKnolle said:
Favre counts. Glanville booted him for being a "knucklehead".
( both Favre's and Glanville's words ... actually Glanville had a better set of words for him, but this is a Pop Warner forum ( not that there is anything wrong with that ) )
EDIT:
And ditto on the USFL with Young. I was just slow coming around. I am pretty certain that I could find a handful of regrets though.. Gannon was tossed around to several clubs before he earned his MVP.
TheCD
Rookie
thunderkyss said:
I think the Arizona Cardinals (Up until they drafted Leinart, that is) have been wishing that, due to their QB woes, they had kept Jake Plummer. We all know that despite how good of a job Kurt Warner does, he was just the temporary fix until something more permanent came along.
Jake Delhomme played for the Saints from '98 to '02 (only played in 6 games, though), and I'll bet they wish they'd kept him onbaord.
Trent Green played for the Chargers, Redskins and Rams for 8 years before coming to KC...Say what you want about him being overrated - he's produced.
The Redskins also had Brad Johnson the year before he won a Championship in Tampa...
And last but not least even though it's not completely relavent...I'l bet the Titans are going to be saying that same thing for letting McNair go.
I don't know if this will make any of those uneasy about us keeping Carr any better...but while Plummer was in Arizona for 6 years, he averaged a 68.4 Passer Rating, 2937 yards, 15 TD's and 22 INT's and had a 55.55% completion...since he went to Denver under Kubiak and Shanahan, he has averaged a 88.6 Passer Rating, 3212 yards, 20 TD's and 11 INT's and had a 60.5% completion. Although Denver runs predominately, his attempts only dropped from an average of 459 per season in Arizona to 426 in Denver.
My point is...don't worry. Kubiak's worked with Elway, Young and Plummer...Carr has two key attributes that Kubiak can work with...speed and a powerful arm. The rest can be taught.
TwinSisters said:Ugh...
Tampa - Steve Young
Atlanta - Brett Favre
uhh........ I'm counting modern era after salary cap..... those guys were moved before the salary cap....... favre was also never seen as the starter in Atlanta, much like Delhomme never had a chance to be the starter in N.O. he wasa let go, not because he underperformed....... but teams back then didn't hold on to backups like Volek, or the guy in Atlanta(can't remember his name).
PowerfulDragon said:
yeah..... well....
TheCD said:
I think the Cardnals realized their problem was much deeper than QB, and they had no right holding on to him, till they fixed their problems.... that's just my take. I'm sure they understand that a lot of success Jake has had, was because he left Arizona.
TheCD said:
why?? They had their starter. and had Aaron Brooks not run off the mouth about the guy signing his pay check, he'd still be the guy in N.O.
TheCD said:
I seriously doubt any of those teams want trent green back... I just don't believe it.
TheCD said:
You think the Skins think they would've won that SuperBowl if they would've kept Brad Johnson??
You really think that huh??
TheCD said:
Because you believe the Titans believe McNair was an underachiever??
OK.
TheCD said:
whose worried?? I'm not worried.......
TwinSisters
Veteran
thunderkyss said:
You still have Rich Gannon. The Chiefs wish they would have kept him post salary cap ( if for no other reason, so that he didn't become a Raider ) and the Vikings regret letting him go pre salary cap ( joy to the world with Jim McMahon leading the charge )
Favre was behind 1st round pick stand out Chris Miller. They hung on to that pipe dream for 6 or so seasons.
Andre Rison and Deon Sanders... with Favre June Jones or Dan Reeves, instead of Jeff George and Chris Chandler?
They regret it. I bet they regret it.
Hulk75
Veteran
Sr or mam..............I watched every game of this mans life, from College to the NFL.NATHANHALE said:
Carr was took out many times, in the 4th and even the 3rd Quarter, because the score was so high they did not want to run up the score. Missed 9 plays, the guy probably missed 4 maybe 5 Quarters of football, the guy throw 6 TDs in one half and they took him out for the rest of the next half in a game his senior year.
Joe Schey and Logan Mankins and the rest of the STARTING Oline only gave up 15 sacks, and Grady got the brunt of the sacks considering that the talent level dropped off big time after the 1st string lineman were out.
And as for Carr throwing on the run, he is one of the best at it. Palmer turned Carr (a pocket type QB) into a scrambler to protect him. They have used MANY roll out PA plays for Carr, he is used to it. One of his Strengths is throwing on the run.
Dont waste peoples time with this stuff........ here I will just say your right.
Your right, Carr sucked in College and in the NFL. Your right.
TwinSisters said:
Deja vu
NATHANHALE
Waterboy
"And as for Carr throwing on the run, he is one of the best at it. "
...guess that's why he never throws the ball away when he's running out of bounds. Also, Carr's back-ups threw 9 passes his entire SR year, so it would have been kinda hard for them to collect a lot of sacks or loss yardage. Finally, you ought to practice what you preach---try backing up your post once in a while. Oh,almost forgot---this is a public forum.
"did not want to run up the score"
...you watched every game??? The Bulldogs scored over a 100 pts in every single qtr (total) in 2001, including 154pts in the 3rd and 106pts in the 4th!! And, Carr was in there!! How do you think he got such big numbers??
...guess that's why he never throws the ball away when he's running out of bounds. Also, Carr's back-ups threw 9 passes his entire SR year, so it would have been kinda hard for them to collect a lot of sacks or loss yardage. Finally, you ought to practice what you preach---try backing up your post once in a while. Oh,almost forgot---this is a public forum.
"did not want to run up the score"
...you watched every game??? The Bulldogs scored over a 100 pts in every single qtr (total) in 2001, including 154pts in the 3rd and 106pts in the 4th!! And, Carr was in there!! How do you think he got such big numbers??
Ibar_Harry
All Pro
NATHANHALE said:
They had to score they had no defense........................ That's why they lost of Boise State and Hawaii. They scored a lot of points, but they couldn't stop the other team from scoring. If we would have had any kind of a defense we would have had a perfect season that year and the BCS would have been history.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Ibar_Harry said:
Interesting that they had to score, rather than score the right way. But heck we are talking about Boise State and Hawaii here and I have not heard any mention of moving those teams to Los Angeles.
Would it have not been great for David to slay the goliath BCS?
Ibar_Harry
All Pro
NATHANHALE said:
Kaiser my answer was to this rebuttle.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Ibar_Harry said:
I know Ibar. I am closing a nine hour shift soon and frankly I am only entertaining myself.
I dont think it matters what ANY of us on this board think of Carr . The only opinion that matters at this point is Gary Kubiak's ..... And he seems to be of the opinion that Carr can get the job done ..... I kinda tend to agree with him.
All you Carr haters blame his poor numbers on the man himself . One Man Does Not a TEAM Make .
Carr has never had a solid O-line to protect him .
Carr has never had a good second reciever option .
carr has never had a good offensive scheme with which to operate . Capers run on first down , run on second down oops its 3rd and long offense was a joke . Palmer , known for his offensive skills and ability to teach the QB position had his hands tied .... the coaching Carr recieved during this time was horrific .
Give the guy a break .... I know its difficult for us as fans to WAIT in this I want it YESTERDAY world .... But good things come to those who wait .
All you Carr haters blame his poor numbers on the man himself . One Man Does Not a TEAM Make .
Carr has never had a solid O-line to protect him .
Carr has never had a good second reciever option .
carr has never had a good offensive scheme with which to operate . Capers run on first down , run on second down oops its 3rd and long offense was a joke . Palmer , known for his offensive skills and ability to teach the QB position had his hands tied .... the coaching Carr recieved during this time was horrific .
Give the guy a break .... I know its difficult for us as fans to WAIT in this I want it YESTERDAY world .... But good things come to those who wait .
NATHANHALE
Waterboy
Ibar_Harry said:
You need to go read Hulk's thread about how he watched every Carr game at Fresno and he played little in the 2nd half, so they would not run the score up. You are right!! They had to score points because of the bad defense. Why didn't Hulk know this since he watched every game? Read his post...
NATHANHALE
Waterboy
"Give the guy a break"
He's going into the 5th year--and still counting--of his 'break.' What more do you want?
He's going into the 5th year--and still counting--of his 'break.' What more do you want?