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Official Brock Osweiler MVP Watch Thread!

JWLCASPER said:
6-3 Leading AFC South

Tell me the last time a quarterback with a .667+ Winning percentage leading his division was pulled.

Brock is kind of doing what B.OB wants, which is not COSTING us the game. Do I agree with this strategy, no, but B.OB has neutered Brock and his confidence.
Click to expand...
I fear you may be right.
And is that the way to groom/grow your hand-picked franchise guy? ...by neutering him midway through his first season...?

let's hope this is a military strategy... you know, O'Brien is tearing Osweiler down so he can build him back up like he wants him to be
(where's that fingers crossed smiley?)
 
gafftop said:
QB rating 2016 > 69 pass completions

30 Keenum 76.8
31 BO 74.1
32 Gabbert 69.6
33 Fitz 67.6

11 Hoyer 98

Mallett can hold a mean clip board.

3 out of bottom 4 in whole NFL ain't bad for the BRAIN TRUST of the Houston Texans

The Texans need to get some answers in reference to what they have at QB on the team presently and more than likely they will upgrade from BO if they make change and if not nothing lost.

Save face, save job, really think BO is answer, never admit to McNair they are wrong.......

Give you reason on why no change.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying anything other than someone else in the NFL decided to hire these guys and give them a starting gig. Or in Mallett's case, put him an injury away from a starting gig. There are apparently a lot of stupid people running NFL teams.
 
Brock isn't going anywhere until we start massively losing. Then, as usual, it will take to long to replace him, and with what anyway? I like Da Weed Man and Doc Savage as much as anyone else, if for their names I give them if nothing else, but if they were that hot they wouldn't be 2nd and 3rd stringers on the Texans.
 
I still think Brock is on the right track. This is the time I expect to see him improve. The first eight weeks, while I didn't expect bottom of the league performance, I didn't expect much from the position.

Against Jacksonville, his drives broke down like this.

1st possession 3/4 19 yards TD
2nd possession 2/3 15 yards
3rd possession 4/6 34 yards
4th possession 0/4 0 yards

1st possession 0/2 0 yards
2nd possession 1/2 7 yards
3rd possession 1/1 6 yards TD
4th possession 1/2 6 yards... DVR stopped recording.

Nothing great or mind blowing... just a regular football game. Looks like he's becoming a fine game manager. & to me, that's "on track" especially for a drop back passer like Osweiler. YPA is still low, he needs to bring that up. Completion percentage is low, needs to bring that up.

But he looks aiight... He doesn't look as scared as he had before... imo. He looks like he can protect himself with either the line calls, getting the ball out, or moving in the pocket. & he makes plays when he has to, he converted twice on third down with his legs.

Like I eluded to before, first step in developing a drop back passer is to make him a game manager. Hopefully by the end of the year, he'll be a dang good game manager. Next year we'll see if he can take the next step towards franchise QB. Or maybe that happens in the playoffs... who knows?
 
JWLCASPER said:
6-3 Leading AFC South

Tell me the last time a quarterback with a .667+ Winning percentage leading his division was pulled.

Brock is kind of doing what B.OB wants, which is not COSTING us the game. Do I agree with this strategy, no, but B.OB has neutered Brock and his confidence.
Click to expand...

thunderkyss said:
I still think Brock is on the right track. This is the time I expect to see him improve. The first eight weeks, while I didn't expect bottom of the league performance, I didn't expect much from the position.

Against Jacksonville, his drives broke down like this.

1st possession 3/4 19 yards TD
2nd possession 2/3 15 yards
3rd possession 4/6 34 yards
4th possession 0/4 0 yards

1st possession 0/2 0 yards
2nd possession 1/2 7 yards
3rd possession 1/1 6 yards TD
4th possession 1/2 6 yards... DVR stopped recording.

Nothing great or mind blowing... just a regular football game. Looks like he's becoming a fine game manager. & to me, that's "on track" especially for a drop back passer like Osweiler. YPA is still low, he needs to bring that up. Completion percentage is low, needs to bring that up.

But he looks aiight... He doesn't look as scared as he had before... imo. He looks like he can protect himself with either the line calls, getting the ball out, or moving in the pocket. & he makes plays when he has to, he converted twice on third down with his legs.

Like I eluded to before, first step in developing a drop back passer is to make him a game manager. Hopefully by the end of the year, he'll be a dang good game manager. Next year we'll see if he can take the next step towards franchise QB. Or maybe that happens in the playoffs... who knows?
Click to expand...

Take away Kareem Jackson's pick 6, and we just lost to a 2-6 Jaguars.

"Game manager" is now a best case scenario, and that's not what you buy with $36 guaranteed.

The question is now: "Does Brock have the ceiling and potential that we initially thought he had?" By game 11, the evidence has pointed close enough to "No." And the evidence is inaccuracy.
 
thunderkyss said:
I still think Brock is on the right track. This is the time I expect to see him improve. The first eight weeks, while I didn't expect bottom of the league performance, I didn't expect much from the position.

Against Jacksonville, his drives broke down like this.

1st possession 3/4 19 yards TD
2nd possession 2/3 15 yards
3rd possession 4/6 34 yards
4th possession 0/4 0 yards

1st possession 0/2 0 yards
2nd possession 1/2 7 yards
3rd possession 1/1 6 yards TD
4th possession 1/2 6 yards... DVR stopped recording.

Nothing great or mind blowing... just a regular football game. Looks like he's becoming a fine game manager. & to me, that's "on track" especially for a drop back passer like Osweiler. YPA is still low, he needs to bring that up. Completion percentage is low, needs to bring that up.

But he looks aiight... He doesn't look as scared as he had before... imo. He looks like he can protect himself with either the line calls, getting the ball out, or moving in the pocket. & he makes plays when he has to, he converted twice on third down with his legs.

Like I eluded to before, first step in developing a drop back passer is to make him a game manager. Hopefully by the end of the year, he'll be a dang good game manager. Next year we'll see if he can take the next step towards franchise QB. Or maybe that happens in the playoffs... who knows?
Click to expand...

I'm hoping Brock is on the right track but the problem I have with all of this is why? Why do Prescott and Wentz, as Rookies, look so much better than Brock? Is it because they have better pass protection? Is it because they are in a better offensive scheme? Or is it because they have better coaching? :thinking: Just some food for thought!
 
Brisco_County said:
Take away Kareem Jackson's pick 6, and we just lost to a 2-6 Jaguars.

"Game manager" is now a best case scenario, and that's not what you buy with $36 guaranteed.

The question is now: "Does Brock have the ceiling and potential that we initially thought he had?" By game 11, the evidence has pointed close enough to "No." And the evidence is inaccuracy.
Click to expand...

I said it before, we don't know how the game would have played out without Kareem's pick 6. It most likely would have been called differently. Same as we don't know how the game would have played out without Kareem's pass interference. The Jags may not have scored on that possession... wouldn't have had the two point conversion, so we'd have won by an additional 8 points, if it were that simple.

Secondly, no. You don't buy game managers for $37M guaranteed. But it's a step towards becoming a franchise QB. It's a step that Roethlisberger, Wilson, Brady, & many others took on their way to becoming what they are.

Insideop said:
I'm hoping Brock is on the right track but the problem I have with all of this is why? Why do Prescott and Wentz, as Rookies, look so much better than Brock? Is it because they have better pass protection? Is it because they are in a better offensive scheme? Or is it because they have better coaching? :thinking: Just some food for thought!
Click to expand...

Take away all the plays where they extended plays, ad libbed, ran around & broke the defense down. Take that ability away from them & how "good" would they look?

Nothing wrong with QBs like that. But Brock isn't that type. He's not going to look good for a while. It took Derek Carr three years to go from meh... to where he is now (winning & looking good). I'm not saying it will take Brock three years, only that it will take more than 9 games.
 
gafftop said:
Yep, everything said rings true. Especially Brock being spoiled and he is beginning to rot. He isn't just bad he is historically bad.
Now to be fair BOB/Godsey may also be historically bad from an offensive standpoint. Last couple of year's results tend to make you think it is not all coaching/scheme. Fitz/Mallett/Keenum (2014) ;Hoyer/Mallett/Yates/Weeden (2015) didn't look consistently as bad as Brock.
Wow what a list of QBs BOB/Smith have brought in and believed in. McNair look at this list. Really!!!! C'mon MAN!!!!!!!

Time to get some answers for the future.
We already know about Brock for this year. Let him sit before he is a broken QB. May already be there. Maybe off season he can figure out how to throw the ball again and get some confidence back but presently it is all falling apart for him. BOB/Rick are keeping him in for purely personal reasons or they really can't see the truth. It may be the latter because they sure haven't made a good decision on QBs since being at Texans. See above list.

Is Savage worth anything? Put him in and find out. Personally I think way over his head and his lack of mobility and experience will make it very hard for him to succeed. He may be able to throw more accurately and quicker ( a given) read the defense, know the offense better, and be more poised than BO (not a high bar) and probably will be better than Brock. Let's find out!!!!!

Is Weeden the answer for this year? Put him in and find out if Savage fails.

Brock will not finish the season as the starter even if he stays healthy. He will be pulled for some reason, mysterious injury or maybe just pulled at some point if he stays healthy. My opinion.


Even BOB/Rick and McNair will come to this conclusion at some point.
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Great observation right here.
 
ObsiWan said:
This ^^^^

I'm with you. At the beginning of the season folks were saying, give 'em time to gel. We should be rolling smoothly around or after the bye.
Well, it's after the bye.
Are we rolling smoothly yet?
Click to expand...

I am one of those people that said give him some time. But after that Detroits game I was convinced this dude was pure trash. And I still gave him the benefit of the doubt with my prediction of him having a much better second half. It's on record . Lol

And then what does he do, 99 yards 2 TDS in the red zone and 0 interceptions( which is good). But dang his mechanics are awful, he's still staring down his targets, ball placement is erratic and that time clock in his head is moving too fast for him.
 
Insideop said:
I'm hoping Brock is on the right track but the problem I have with all of this is why? Why do Prescott and Wentz, as Rookies, look so much better than Brock? Is it because they have better pass protection? Is it because they are in a better offensive scheme? Or is it because they have better coaching? :thinking: Just some food for thought!
Click to expand...

In Dak's case: better protection in terms of pass pro & in the run game protecting him...& they aren't asking him to do too much either & he hasn't had to.

In Wentz' case: Pederson has placed high emphasis on getting the ball out quickly for him.

Brock and the entirety of the offense haven't even played 1 full game together yet...Brown, Fuller, B. Miller and Newton have all missed games at various times throughout the year. And for a line that was already shaky coming into the season, I'm surprised Brock hasn't been sacked more than he has & i'm even more impressed that we've been able to run it as well as we have. There's just really been no continuity.

Brock has to improve his pocket awareness & accuracy, but beyond that I don't think a significant percentage of the offenses woes fall on him. Nuk's got to be better getting off press coverage, Fuller/Strong/Miller have to get healthy b/c they all need the reps with Brock to continue to get on the same page & from a playcalling/coaching standpoint, we've got to better utilize B. Miller's skill set. We should be bubble screening & jet sweeping the **** out of teams with him.
 
Insideop said:
I'm hoping Brock is on the right track but the problem I have with all of this is why? Why do Prescott and Wentz, as Rookies, look so much better than Brock? Is it because they have better pass protection? Is it because they are in a better offensive scheme? Or is it because they have better coaching? :thinking: Just some food for thought!
Click to expand...

In Dak's case: better protection in terms of pass pro & in the run game protecting him...& they aren't asking him to do too much either & he hasn't had to.

In Wentz' case: Pederson has placed high emphasis on getting the ball out quickly for him
Brock and the entirety of the offense haven't even played 1 full game together yet...Brown, Fuller, B. Miller and Newton have all missed games at various times throughout the year. And for a line that was already shaky coming into the season, I'm surprised Brock hasn't been sacked more than he has & i'm even more impressed that we've been able to run it as well as we have. There's just really been no continuity.

Brock has to improve his pocket awareness & accuracy, but beyond that I don't think a significant percentage of the offenses woes fall on him. Nuk's got to be better getting off press coverage, Fuller/Strong/Miller have to get healthy b/c they all need the reps with Brock to continue to get on the same page & from a playcalling/coaching standpoint, we've got to better utilize B. Miller's skill set. We should be bubble screening & jet sweeping the **** out of teams with him.
 
Mr teX said:
In Dak's case: better protection in terms of pass pro & in the run game protecting him...& they aren't asking him to do too much either & he hasn't had to.

In Wentz' case: Pederson has placed high emphasis on getting the ball out quickly for him.

Brock and the entirety of the offense haven't even played 1 full game together yet...Brown, Fuller, B. Miller and Newton have all missed games at various times throughout the year. And for a line that was already shaky coming into the season, I'm surprised Brock hasn't been sacked more than he has & i'm even more impressed that we've been able to run it as well as we have. There's just really been no continuity.

Brock has to improve his pocket awareness & accuracy, but beyond that I don't think a significant percentage of the offenses woes fall on him. Nuk's got to be better getting off press coverage, Fuller/Strong/Miller have to get healthy b/c they all need the reps with Brock to continue to get on the same page & from a playcalling/coaching standpoint, we've got to better utilize B. Miller's skill set. We should be bubble screening & jet sweeping the **** out of teams with him.
Click to expand...

Accuracy! That's the one thing I'm concerned about more than any other with Brock. Without accuracy a QB will never make it for very long in the NFL. I've seen flashes of it with Brock that give me hope, but I need to see him be more consistently accurate game in and game out. If he can't do that, I don't think he will be with the Texans much past the 2 years guaranteed on his contract.
 
Insideop said:
Accuracy! That's the one thing I'm concerned about more than any other with Brock. Without accuracy a QB will never make it for very long in the NFL. I've seen flashes of it with Brock that give me hope, but I need to see him be more consistently accurate game in and game out. If he can't do that, I don't think he will be with the Texans much past the 2 years guaranteed on his contract.
Click to expand...

Ideally, you want to sack the qb, but if you can't do that, the next best thing you'd take is making a qb move off his spot, b/c it effects mechanics & thereby accuracy. Defenses haven't really been sacking him, but they have pretty consistently been making him move off his spot with pressure. As i watch him play more & more, it's pretty clear to me he has no belief in his o-line (specifically that right side) & so he's never really comfortable back there. OB has tried to get him comfortable by playing up the short passing game, but that only works for so long ...eventually you're gonna have to make them pay for cheating & take a deep shot....This last part is what they can't seem to do b/c they've got systemic o-line issues imo. Now combine all this with the fact that his WR's can't get off press coverage to where he never can consistently know where they're gonna be at & this is what you get.

I'd be very surprised we don't go o-line in the 1st round next year.
 
Mr teX said:
Ideally, you want to sack the qb, but if you can't do that, the next best thing you'd take is making a qb move off his spot, b/c it effects mechanics & thereby accuracy. Defenses haven't really been sacking him, but they have pretty consistently been making him move off his spot with pressure. As i watch him play more & more, it's pretty clear to me he has no belief in his o-line (specifically that right side) & so he's never really comfortable back there. OB has tried to get him comfortable by playing up the short passing game, but that only works for so long ...eventually you're gonna have to make them pay for cheating & take a deep shot....This last part is what they can't seem to do b/c they've got systemic o-line issues imo. Now combine all this with the fact that his WR's can't get off press coverage to where he never can consistently know where they're gonna be at & this is what you get.

I'd be very surprised we don't go o-line in the 1st round next year.
Click to expand...
Good analysis.
 
Texansballer74 said:
I am one of those people that said give him some time. But after that Detroits game I was convinced this dude was pure trash. And I still gave him the benefit of the doubt with my prediction of him having a much better second half. It's on record . Lol

And then what does he do, 99 yards 2 TDS in the red zone and 0 interceptions( which is good). But dang his mechanics are awful, he's still staring down his targets, ball placement is erratic and that time clock in his head is moving too fast for him.
Click to expand...

So what happened to him? He wasn't this bad last year, or in the preseason this year. Seems he's gotten worse ever week, but turnovers are improving, wins are coming, despite the way he looks.

Personally, I don't care if he has the worst stats in the league (I would prefer best stats in the league), if the wins are rolling in.

I have serious doubts about OB and GG now, much more than I did in the preseason, but overall the team has exceeded my expectations as far as W/L this year
 
ObsiWan said:
This ^^^^

I'm with you. At the beginning of the season folks were saying, give 'em time to gel. We should be rolling smoothly around or after the bye.
Well, it's after the bye.
Are we rolling smoothly yet?
Click to expand...

I am one of those people that said give him some time. But after that Detroits game I was convinced this dude was pure trash. And I still gave him the benefit of the doubt with my prediction of him having a much better second half. It's on record . Lol

And then what does he do, 99 yards 2 TDS in the red zone and 0 interceptions( which is good). But dang his mechanics are awful, he's still staring down his targets, ball placement is erratic and that time clock in his head is moving too fast for him.
JB said:
So what happened to him? He wasn't this bad last year, or in the preseason this year. Seems he's gotten worse ever week, but turnovers are improving, wins are coming, despite the way he looks.

Personally, I don't care if he has the worst stats in the league (I would prefer best stats in the league), if the wins are rolling in.

I have serious doubts about OB and GG now, much more than I did in the preseason, but overall the team has exceeded my expectations as far as W/L this year
Click to expand...


I'm good with the wins for sure. But in the grand scheme of things we will need him to play much better against stiffer competition. As of right now we have won game against a true quality opponent. We've lost to 3 other quality opponents, all by the way of embarrassment might I add.

I am with you on the fact that we are exceeding expectations at this point. But if we want to make some real noise in the playoffs, we will need Brock to give us more than what he's given right now.
 
Texansballer74 said:
I'm good with the wins for sure. But in the grand scheme of things we will need him to play much better against stiffer competition. As of right now we have won game against a true quality opponent. We've lost to 3 other quality opponents, all by the way of embarrassment might I add.

I am with you on the fact that we are exceeding expectations at this point. But if we want to make some real noise in the playoffs, we will need Brock to give us more than what he's given right now.
Click to expand...

So lets at least give them a chance to fail us. If it's the defense to fail, will Brock still get the blame? I'm betting he does. And if it's the special teams or the RB or anyone at all. It's a team game but not for the Texan fans around here
 
Mr teX said:
In Dak's case: better protection in terms of pass pro & in the run game protecting him...& they aren't asking him to do too much either & he hasn't had to.

In Wentz' case: Pederson has placed high emphasis on getting the ball out quickly for him.

Brock and the entirety of the offense haven't even played 1 full game together yet...Brown, Fuller, B. Miller and Newton have all missed games at various times throughout the year. And for a line that was already shaky coming into the season, I'm surprised Brock hasn't been sacked more than he has & i'm even more impressed that we've been able to run it as well as we have. There's just really been no continuity.

Brock has to improve his pocket awareness & accuracy, but beyond that I don't think a significant percentage of the offenses woes fall on him. Nuk's got to be better getting off press coverage, Fuller/Strong/Miller have to get healthy b/c they all need the reps with Brock to continue to get on the same page & from a playcalling/coaching standpoint, we've got to better utilize B. Miller's skill set. We should be bubble screening & jet sweeping the **** out of teams with him.
Click to expand...
There your problem right there. Pocket awareness is instinctual and can't be coach. And a lot of his inaccuracies comes from his inability to utilize touch passes or take a little off on the ball. Sometime a QB have to throw early because of pressure and that throw requires less velocity to allow receivers time to finish their route. I don't ever remember seeing Os throwing a touch pass. Has anybody?
 
JB said:
So lets at least give them a chance to fail us. If it's the defense to fail, will Brock still get the blame? I'm betting he does. And if it's the special teams or the RB or anyone at all. It's a team game but not for the Texan fans around here
Click to expand...


I toss blame in the direction of where it belongs. If Brock come out and have his best game of his Texans career, you can best believe I will give him his props. If the defense lay a goose egg, I'm going to roast that bleep all day long.

As far as failing us, JB they've done that three times this year already. Like I said in an embarrassing fashion. The entire team including the coaching staff didn't give us their best effort in those games.
 
klockWork said:
There your problem right there. Pocket awareness is instinctual and can't be coach. And a lot of his inaccuracies comes from his inability to utilize touch passes or take a little off on the ball. Sometime a QB have to throw early because of pressure and that throw requires less velocity to allow receivers time to finish their route. I don't ever remember seeing Os throwing a touch pass. Has anybody?
Click to expand...

He threw one to Strong along the sideline against the Colts. That was a beautiful pass right there. Right touch, velocity and ball placement.
 
Texansballer74 said:
I toss blame in the direction of where it belongs. If Brock come out and have his best game of his Texans career, you can best believe I will give him his props. If the defense lay a goose egg, I'm going to roast that bleep all day long.

As far as failing us, JB they've done that three times this year already. Like I said in an embarrassing fashion. The entire team including the coaching staff didn't give us their best effort in those games.
Click to expand...

I know that, and they caught grief for it. Lots.

The Patriots have failed twice, the Steelers, Titans, Colts, Packers five times. Even the Cardinals, Vikings and Dolphins four times.

Talking that they're gonna fail before they do achieves what?
 
Texansballer74 said:
He threw one to Strong along the sideline against the Colts. That was a beautiful pass right there. Right touch, velocity and ball placement.
Click to expand...
Kind of hard to zip a 30 yard pass, no other way than to throw it like that. I'm talking about those intermediate passes where a defender is quickly in his face and the only way to complete a 10 yard out to Nuk is to throw it early and soft giving him time to break free from his defender. Os just doesn't seem to understand that concept of the game.
I seen him too many times fire a ball that arrived as his receivers were making their breaks.
 
Mr teX said:
Ideally, you want to sack the qb, but if you can't do that, the next best thing you'd take is making a qb move off his spot, b/c it effects mechanics & thereby accuracy. Defenses haven't really been sacking him, but they have pretty consistently been making him move off his spot with pressure. As i watch him play more & more, it's pretty clear to me he has no belief in his o-line (specifically that right side) & so he's never really comfortable back there. OB has tried to get him comfortable by playing up the short passing game, but that only works for so long ...eventually you're gonna have to make them pay for cheating & take a deep shot....This last part is what they can't seem to do b/c they've got systemic o-line issues imo. Now combine all this with the fact that his WR's can't get off press coverage to where he never can consistently know where they're gonna be at & this is what you get.

I'd be very surprised we don't go o-line in the 1st round next year.
Click to expand...

You're singing my song! It's the O-line song! :doot:
 
At this point the only thing to do is hope Os gets it figured out. I'm pretty sure we can get out from under his contract in 18 months' time and we'll surely sign another QB through the draft to develop.

If that guy/Savage can be the answer we can eat a ton of dead money while our starting QB is on a rookie deal.

O'Brien will have to go if he can get a quality starting QB given the time and resources at his disposal come that point though.
 
I've got a challenge for anyone saying Brock has an accuracy problem and therefore won't amount to anything: Re-watch the Jacksonville game w/ a notepad and tally the # of inaccurate throws. I just did and counted one throw that was inaccurate (possibly 2).

Of his 13 incompletions, 3 were dropped passes (1 by Hop that was an uncalled PI), 2 were tipped by DL, 1 was thrown away, 1 he was flushed from the pocket and Hop caught the ball but didn't get both feet down in bounds, 1 was essentially a hail mary with 2 seconds on the clock at the end of the half that should have been a field goal attempt but Novak had already missed 2 field goals. Of the 5 remaining incompletions, 1 was to Hop who was tightly covered and Os put it where only Hop could catch it but he wasn't able to, 2 were timing issues where Hop didn't have his head around in time in the flats (the ball hit him in the hands) and the other Brock didn't allow a screen play develop to Hunt (a DL was on the ground when Os started his motion but he got on his feet directly in front of Hunt as the ball was released), 1 was poorly thrown (inaccurate) to Hop down the left sidelines and 1 was the bullet to Brax that Brax didn't have a chance on (may have been catchable w/ touch but also slightly inaccurate). As a side note, there was plenty of touch on the TD throw to Anderson and Griffin -- please don't say he can't put touch on a short throw.

There was room for improvement on timing as I mentioned -- criticize him for that. There's room for criticism on decision making -- I thought he did fairly well but maybe could have done better. But not inaccuracy (at least in this game). Re-watch the game and see for yourself.
 
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Max said:
I've got a challenge for anyone saying Brock has an accuracy problem and therefore won't amount to anything: Re-watch the Jacksonville game w/ a notepad and tally the # of inaccurate throws. I just did and counted one throw that was inaccurate (possibly 2).

Of his 13 incompletions, 3 were dropped passes (1 by Hop that was an uncalled PI), 2 were tipped by DL, 1 was thrown away, 1 he was flushed from the pocket and Hop caught the ball but didn't get both feet down in bounds, 1 was essentially a hail mary with 2 seconds on the clock at the end of the half that should have been a field goal attempt but Novak had already missed 2 field goals. Of the 5 remaining incompletions, 1 was to Hop who was tightly covered and Os put it where only Hop could catch it but he wasn't able to, 2 were timing issues where Hop didn't have his head around in time in the flats (the ball hit him in the hands) and the other Brock didn't allow a screen play develop to Hunt (a DL was on the ground when Os started his motion but he got on his feet directly in front of Hunt as the ball was released), 1 was poorly thrown (inaccurate) to Hop down the left sidelines and 1 was the bullet to Brax that Brax didn't have a chance on (may have been catchable w/ touch but also slightly inaccurate). As a side note, there was plenty of touch on the TD throw to Anderson and Griffin -- please don't say he can't put touch on a short throw.

There was room for improvement on timing as I mentioned -- criticize him for that. There's room for criticism on decision making -- I thought he did fairly well but maybe could have done better. But not inaccuracy (at least in this game). Re-watch the game and see for yourself.
Click to expand...

This is a good sign that he's making progress. Have you looked back on any of the games earlier in the season when he didn't seem to be as accurate and count the inaccurate passes? Would be interesting to see if he's been slowly improving over the course of the season or if this game is his first step on improvement.
 
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Insideop said:
This is a good sign that he's making progress. Have you looked back on any of the games earlier in the season when he didn't seem to be as accurate and count the inaccurate passes? Would be interesting to see if he's been slowly improving over the course of the season or if this game is his first step on improvement.
Click to expand...
Good question. I haven't rewatched previous games for accuracy but I did for this one because I didn't remember the inaccuracy he's been criticized for. I have made comments after each game where I had a similar feel and to me I've seen accuracy improvement since Indy but no stats as I haven't rewatched the games.

I will add this, I've also noticed improved pocket presence and confidence since the Indy game (save the Denver game post fumble pass). This stood out to me in the Jax game as he scrambled for several first downs when it was his only option. I'm not going to be surprised if we see a much improved passing game this week if the game plan allows for it.
 
Max said:
I've got a challenge for anyone saying Brock has an accuracy problem and therefore won't amount to anything: Re-watch the Jacksonville game w/ a notepad and tally the # of inaccurate throws. I just did and counted one throw that was inaccurate (possibly 2).

Of his 13 incompletions, 3 were dropped passes (1 by Hop that was an uncalled PI), 2 were tipped by DL, 1 was thrown away, 1 he was flushed from the pocket and Hop caught the ball but didn't get both feet down in bounds, 1 was essentially a hail mary with 2 seconds on the clock at the end of the half that should have been a field goal attempt but Novak had already missed 2 field goals. Of the 5 remaining incompletions, 1 was to Hop who was tightly covered and Os put it where only Hop could catch it but he wasn't able to, 2 were timing issues where Hop didn't have his head around in time in the flats (the ball hit him in the hands) and the other Brock didn't allow a screen play develop to Hunt (a DL was on the ground when Os started his motion but he got on his feet directly in front of Hunt as the ball was released), 1 was poorly thrown (inaccurate) to Hop down the left sidelines and 1 was the bullet to Brax that Brax didn't have a chance on (may have been catchable w/ touch but also slightly inaccurate). As a side note, there was plenty of touch on the TD throw to Anderson and Griffin -- please don't say he can't put touch on a short throw.

There was room for improvement on timing as I mentioned -- criticize him for that. There's room for criticism on decision making -- I thought he did fairly well but maybe could have done better. But not inaccuracy (at least in this game). Re-watch the game and see for yourself.
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Well the ones he does complete are less per yard than we average running the ball. regardless of the "situation" he needs to play like he's worth the 72 million, right now he isn't worth a million.
 
EllisUnit said:
Well the ones he does complete are less per yard than we average running the ball. regardless of the "situation" he needs to play like he's worth the 72 million, right now he isn't worth a million.
Click to expand...

For all we know, O'b may be pleased... extremely pleased with what he's seen from his $72M investment. while it doesn't look impressive to us, when they get to the film room to break down film, Osweiler may have very good reasons, the reasons O'b wants to hear, for making the choices he makes.

After watching the Jags game three times, & watching the all 22, nothing Osweiler's done gives me heartburn. doesn't look elite or anything like that, but I think he's close enough to where he was last year in Kubiak's system. When he looked like a very good QB prospect. Which is all he is. A prospect.
 
EllisUnit said:
Well the ones he does complete are less per yard than we average running the ball. regardless of the "situation" he needs to play like he's worth the 72 million, right now he isn't worth a million.
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Wtf does the money matter? Not your money.

If he's playing like crap $1 is too much

If he turns it around and plays like he did last year and this year preseason, $72 mil is cheap
 
Money effects the remainder of the roster. A big investment prevents other investments. So yeah, kinda significant.
 
O'BRIEN is not pleased with Brock's performance so far. He just can't be. Especially with the way he handled Hoyer and Mallett last season.

The big difference is, the owner Mr. McNair has his stamp on this thing.
 
Max said:
I've got a challenge for anyone saying Brock has an accuracy problem and therefore won't amount to anything: Re-watch the Jacksonville game w/ a notepad and tally the # of inaccurate throws. I just did and counted one throw that was inaccurate (possibly 2).

Of his 13 incompletions, 3 were dropped passes (1 by Hop that was an uncalled PI), 2 were tipped by DL, 1 was thrown away, 1 he was flushed from the pocket and Hop caught the ball but didn't get both feet down in bounds, 1 was essentially a hail mary with 2 seconds on the clock at the end of the half that should have been a field goal attempt but Novak had already missed 2 field goals. Of the 5 remaining incompletions, 1 was to Hop who was tightly covered and Os put it where only Hop could catch it but he wasn't able to, 2 were timing issues where Hop didn't have his head around in time in the flats (the ball hit him in the hands) and the other Brock didn't allow a screen play develop to Hunt (a DL was on the ground when Os started his motion but he got on his feet directly in front of Hunt as the ball was released), 1 was poorly thrown (inaccurate) to Hop down the left sidelines and 1 was the bullet to Brax that Brax didn't have a chance on (may have been catchable w/ touch but also slightly inaccurate). As a side note, there was plenty of touch on the TD throw to Anderson and Griffin -- please don't say he can't put touch on a short throw.

There was room for improvement on timing as I mentioned -- criticize him for that. There's room for criticism on decision making -- I thought he did fairly well but maybe could have done better. But not inaccuracy (at least in this game). Re-watch the game and see for yourself.
Click to expand...

Food for thought..................This season, Osweiler has been dealing with back issues.........and with foot issues. That combination of injuries could explain any real existing accuracy issues. Not only that, but it could also explain the myriad of short passes with the paucity of even attempts at long ones. You have to have a strong uninjured back and strong stable feet to throw an accurate pass.........more so a long pass..........even more so a long accurate pass. When you have a back and foot issue, you lose your ability to throw a pass hard enough to gain significant distance..........and the harder you attempt to throw the ball to attain distance beyond your injured capability, the greater the logarithmic inaccuracy.

Could this explain what we are seeing with Osweiler? Yes. Does this explain what we are seeing? I don't know. Maybe not. But if we hear about any offseason surgery(ies), we could very well have our answer...........just food for thought.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Food for thought..................This season, Osweiler has been dealing with back issues.........and with foot issues. That combination of injuries could explain any real existing accuracy issues. Not only that, but it could also explain the myriad of short passes with the paucity of even attempts at long ones. You have to have a strong uninjured back and strong stable feet to throw an accurate pass.........more so a long pass..........even more so a long accurate pass. When you have a back and foot issue, you lose your ability to throw a pass hard enough to gain significant distance..........and the harder you attempt to throw the ball to attain distance beyond your injured capability, the greater the logarithmic inaccuracy.

Could this explain what we are seeing with Osweiler? Yes. Does this explain what we are seeing? I don't know. Maybe not. But if we hear about any offseason surgery(ies), we could very well have our answer...........just food for thought.
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Good input. I also heard he's suffering from a mild case of lockinonfirstreaditis. I don't suppose that's helping either.
 
Texansballer74 said:
Please post a link of these undisclosed injuries.
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These are not "undisclosed injuries." You can go back to my official Injury Report threads and find these injuries listed. Keep in mind that although they may be dropped at some point from the official Injury Report, it does not mean the player does not continue to be affected by the injuries. Remember, Watt was playing with a back injury for most of a season before it was even revealed let alone listed on any Injury Report.
 
Max said:
Good input. I also heard he's suffering from a mild case of lockinonfirstreaditis. I don't suppose that's helping either.
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It only hurts when you pee and root for the Texans.
 
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Around the NFL
Week 11 Cheat Sheet
By Kevin Patra
  • Around the NFL writer
  • Published: Nov. 18, 2016 at 06:52 p.m.
  • Updated: Nov. 20, 2016 at 08:23 a.m.
Houston Texans at Oakland Raiders (MEXICO CITY)

Brock Osweiler has relied heavily on his running game and defense to compile wins. The quarterback is averaging fewer yards per pass attempt (4.29) over the past three weeks than Lamar Miller is averaging per rush (4.65). The Texans will go as far as Miller's playmaking takes them against a Raiders defense that has tightened up the past three weeks. If Miller can't escape Khalil Mack and Bruce Irvin, it's going to be a forgettable trip to Mexico for Bill O'Brien.

The most intriguing matchup for those traveling to Estadio Azteca is the Raiders wideouts versus the Texans defensive backs. Houston allows just 196.8 passing yards per game and defensive backs Johnathan Joseph, A.J. Bouye and Kareem Jackson have been phenomenal this season. The matchup against Amari Cooper and Michael Crabtree will be fun to watch. The duo is prolific, especially when Derek Carr has time to survey the field. It's not often Cooper and Crabtree don't own an overwhelming advantage over a secondary, but Monday night might be one where they struggle to gobble up easy yards.

Say what? Stat of the week: Brock Osweiler on 25-plus air yard passes this season:

Comp Percentage: 12.0 (Last)
Pass Yards/Att: 5.4 (Last)
TD Passes: 0 (T-Last)
Passer Rating 31.4 (32nd)
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Around the NFL
Week 11 Cheat Sheet
By Kevin Patra
  • Around the NFL writer
  • Published: Nov. 18, 2016 at 06:52 p.m.
  • Updated: Nov. 20, 2016 at 08:23 a.m.
Houston Texans at Oakland Raiders (MEXICO CITY)

Brock Osweiler has relied heavily on his running game and defense to compile wins. The quarterback is averaging fewer yards per pass attempt (4.29) over the past three weeks than Lamar Miller is averaging per rush (4.65). The Texans will go as far as Miller's playmaking takes them against a Raiders defense that has tightened up the past three weeks. If Miller can't escape Khalil Mack and Bruce Irvin, it's going to be a forgettable trip to Mexico for Bill O'Brien.

The most intriguing matchup for those traveling to Estadio Azteca is the Raiders wideouts versus the Texans defensive backs. Houston allows just 196.8 passing yards per game and defensive backs Johnathan Joseph, A.J. Bouye and Kareem Jackson have been phenomenal this season. The matchup against Amari Cooper and Michael Crabtree will be fun to watch. The duo is prolific, especially when Derek Carr has time to survey the field. It's not often Cooper and Crabtree don't own an overwhelming advantage over a secondary, but Monday night might be one where they struggle to gobble up easy yards.

Say what? Stat of the week: Brock Osweiler on 25-plus air yard passes this season:

Comp Percentage: 12.0 (Last)
Pass Yards/Att: 5.4 (Last)
TD Passes: 0 (T-Last)
Passer Rating 31.4 (32nd)
Click to expand...


All I can say is OUCH to Brock's stats.
 
Ok, so I didn't get to see the game last week. Won't go into the reasons, but it is the first Houston football game I have not watched since 1992. Here's my week old diagnosis. The pass game is just broken. The first couple of weeks the pass protection was just terrible. The pocket had all of the shape of... well it never had one. The interior linemen were routinely pushed into Os lap and the edges were pretty flimsy. In recent weeks that seems to have gotten better but the receivers don't seem to get separation. I haven't watched much All22 film but I wonder when people say "so and so was open", where was that? I mean I see guys get separation but it doesn't seem like it happens where it is supposed to.

Brock appears to be broken as well. As soon as pressure starts up his mechanics look like they go to ****. Once that happens you start seeing throws go wild.

OTOH, we've actually seen some TEs involved in the passing game. Its weird to me that suddenly CJF is starting to catch the ball.

I don't know if I like the play calling. Sometimes the route concepts really puzzle me. There are times that it seems like the route concepts should set either or propositions. Either you let the guy go short or long... but those should occur roughly within the same throwing window but that doesn't seem like what is happening. Instead it seems like the people coming open are on opposite sides of the field. Is that designed? Is the defense figuring out where we are trying to go presnap and just ignoring our "decoy" on the other side of the field? I mean surely we don't have most of our routes to include scans from one sideline over to the other at least not as a part of the early route progression...

I have to wonder if there is something about the NE game that teams just kind of picked up on. I wonder if someone who watches film can look to see if we are seeing a disproportionate amount of looks in certain formations... are teams trying to disguise the fact that they are giving us the same look 70% of the game?

Just thoughts of a fan who's trying to figure out why this offense is so terrible and seems so broken...
 
Around the NFL
Week 11 Cheat Sheet
By Kevin Patra
  • Around the NFL writer
  • Published: Nov. 18, 2016 at 06:52 p.m.
  • Updated: Nov. 20, 2016 at 08:23 a.m.
Houston Texans at Oakland Raiders (MEXICO CITY)

Brock Osweiler has relied heavily on his running game and defense to compile wins. The quarterback is averaging fewer yards per pass attempt (4.29) over the past three weeks than Lamar Miller is averaging per rush (4.65). The Texans will go as far as Miller's playmaking takes them against a Raidersdefense that has tightened up the past three weeks. If Miller can't escape Khalil Mack andBruce Irvin, it's going to be a forgettable trip to Mexico for Bill O'Brien.

The most intriguing matchup for those traveling to Estadio Azteca is the Raiderswideouts versus the Texans defensive backs. Houston allows just 196.8 passing yards per game and defensive backs Johnathan Joseph,A.J. Bouye and Kareem Jackson have been phenomenal this season. The matchup againstAmari Cooper and Michael Crabtree will be fun to watch. The duo is prolific, especially whenDerek Carr has time to survey the field. It's not often Cooper and Crabtree don't own an overwhelming advantage over a secondary, but Monday night might be one where they struggle to gobble up easy yards.

Say what? Stat of the week: Brock Osweiler on 25-plus air yard passes this season:

Comp Percentage: 12.0 (Last)
Pass Yards/Att: 5.4 (Last)
TD Passes: 0 (T-Last)
Passer Rating 31.4 (32nd)
 
Texansballer74 said:
Man nobody wants to discuss those beautiful stats of Brock Osweiler. Especially the last three week.

Interesting
Click to expand...

Well, the last two weeks he has had a 61% completion rate, 3:1 TD:INT ratio and 85% rating. You can look at the 285 total passing yards as a negative all you want, but the Texans were 2-0 while racking up almost 300 rushing yards and 17 catches by the TE's.
 
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