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Offensive Line

TheOgre said:
The bare minimum I think we need a center and a NT.
Gotta add TE to the bare minimum list. They really need to find out about Joppru and I was hoping they'd have activated him instead of going the IR rout with him as they did. Some had said this will give him a chance to start
next summer in camp with a clean slate/opportunity to make the team, but we don't have the luxury of that kind of time to wait to see if Joppru pans out. Therefor I figure they will draft or pick up a TE from FA and have Joppru compete with him. Under that scenario we could end up with redundancy at TE - bad management for us because its a waste of precious resources.
 
Yes we could wind up with two potential starter type TE's that have consumed first day picks, but at this point I don't think we have much choice. If they both prove to be starter quality, we can probably recover our draft pick cost with a trade in a year or two.
 
nunusguy said:
Under that scenario we could end up with redundancy at TE - bad management for us because its a waste of precious resources.
Kinda like the redundancy the Patriots had when they drafted TE's in the first round twice in the last three years? (Ben Watson 31st overall and Daniel Graham 21st overall), or perhaps the Colts drafting 2 first day TE's when they already had Pollard? (Ben Hartsock 68th overall and Dallas Clark 24th overall pick both in the last two years). Just between these two teams they have used 4 first day picks on TE's in the last 3 years.

We wanted to run a two TE scheme. Drafting another TE is not out of the question nor would it be foolhardy if a good one is available even if Joppru becomes a pro bowler. One of our biggest problems is our lack of offensive diversity. Having a couple of one-dimensional TE's isn't helping our team score points.
 
well as things stand right now our biggest problem on offense is our line. one of the easiest ways to help out with pass protection is by adding another lineman...one who happens to be eligible to catch a pass wouldnt be so bad.
 
Vinny said:
Kinda like the redundancy the Patriots had when they drafted TE's in the first round twice in the last three years? (Ben Watson 31st overall and Daniel Graham 21st overall), or perhaps the Colts drafting 2 first day TE's when they already had Pollard? (Ben Hartsock 68th overall and Dallas Clark 24th overall pick both in the last two years). Just between these two teams they have used 4 first day picks on TE's in the last 3 years.
We wanted to run a two TE scheme. Drafting another TE is not out of the question nor would it be foolhardy if a good one is available even if Joppru becomes a pro bowler. One of our biggest problems is our lack of offensive diversity. Having a couple of one-dimensional TE's isn't helping our team score points.
The breadth and depth of quality personnel that the Patriots & Colts have on their respective rosters is something that we can only dream about @ this point in time. We have far too many needs on both sides of the ball that
prevent us from having the luxury of using multiple first-day draft picks and/or extravagant FA acquisitions on multiple TEs.
 
I started to add TE to the list. It does need to be addressed. I left TE off the list because the team my believe we have one in Joppru. Personally I am with Vinny, there is nothing wrong with having two good all-purpose TE's. Indy had it with Dilger and Pollard and now has it with Pollard and Clark. It works well for them.
 
Vinny said:
Kinda like the redundancy the Patriots had when they drafted TE's in the first round twice in the last three years? (Ben Watson 31st overall and Daniel Graham 21st overall), or perhaps the Colts drafting 2 first day TE's when they already had Pollard? (Ben Hartsock 68th overall and Dallas Clark 24th overall pick both in the last two years). Just between these two teams they have used 4 first day picks on TE's in the last 3 years.

We wanted to run a two TE scheme. Drafting another TE is not out of the question nor would it be foolhardy if a good one is available even if Joppru becomes a pro bowler. One of our biggest problems is our lack of offensive diversity. Having a couple of one-dimensional TE's isn't helping our team score points.

Good and bad as examples IMO. Watson has played in a grand total of one game this year, contributing 2 receptions. Hartsock has "played" in 13 games and has 0 receptions. The Patriots really don't use their TE's much as receivers, although the Colts certainly do and have split about evenly between Pollard and Clark. A second complete TE is a luxury IMO compared to other needs for immediate impact on the team. Now "second" is the $64K question--is Joppru the first or not? This is one of those deals where IMO you just have to trust the team and doctors. If they have significant doubts, by all means TE is a priority. If they don't then TE drops way down the list. We as fans will simply never have enough information to adequately judge the odds and the only indication we are likely to get from the Texans is whether a TE is drafted in the 1st 3 rounds.
 
The problem, Infantry, is that we cannot afford to go another season without a "true" (2 dimensional) TE. If we are going into the 3rd season in a row count on Joppru, we are obviously not learning very well. IMO we should treat it as if we don't have a TE going into this season and act accordingly. If Joppru pans out, it is a bonus. If not, we have it covered.
 
That is what I was trying to get at though--the difference in perspective and information between fans, and the combination of the player/team/doctors. From our perspective it looks like we should act like Joppru is not there. If every piece of information the player/team/doctors have is that Joppru could be playing right now and will be fine next year then I hope the Texans use that information to make an informed plan for drafting rather than just ignoring it. Is there a risk--sure--but if it pays off the return will be greater.
 
Fiddy said:
My answer: A

We have a new LT, LG and RT to go along with a new scheme. Give them time...


I agree that the offensive problems center squarely on the O-Line.

As for the zone blocking, it's been proven by several teams that it can be very effective and with Davis' health returning, I think the past two or three games has shown us that IS starting to finally show some results.

I also agree completely with Fiddy that they just need time. It takes at least one season for an O-line to gel.
 
infantrycak said:
Good and bad as examples IMO. Watson has played in a grand total of one game this year, contributing 2 receptions. Hartsock has "played" in 13 games and has 0 receptions. The Patriots really don't use their TE's much as receivers, although the Colts certainly do and have split about evenly between Pollard and Clark.
The Patriots planned to but Watson only played in one game due to being on IR. Hartsock may not have any receptions but Pollard is a FA this year and they didn't draft him to make a contribution this year.
 
Vinny said:
The Patriots planned to but Watson only played in one game due to being on IR. Hartsock may not have any receptions but Pollard is a FA this year and they didn't draft him to make a contribution this year.

Didn't realize Watson was on IR, but Hartsock to me is a good example of either a team believing they have the luxury of letting the guy sit a year (which we don't have just because I can't stand the threads on the blown pick) or a good argument could be made that Indy would have been better served by drafting someone for D this year like--Randy Starks, Matt Ware, Derrick Strait, etc. that were taken shortly thereafter. All that said, I am not anti-TE by any means--but through FA/draft would like to see a center, ILB and another CB also as priorities.
 
I'm not so sure that you have to play a guy his first year in order to consider it a good pick for that particular draft. You don't want to wait till the last min and play rookies because you are forced too. The Colts have a good D line. Why draft the lazy Starks when you know you are losing Pollard in a year? He fell to the 3rd round for a reason...and it wasn't because he wasn't talented. Keith Bulluck sat behind Favors for two years and guys like Jason Gildon sat for two years while learning their respective systems. I was reading in another thread that Mistril declared the Cowboys "set back" earlier in the year because they didn't draft Steven Jackson because he could have played earlier than the injured Jones. I don't understand that kind of thinking.
 
Here is what he have @ TE...

One guy who had one good year catching the ball, and is a below average blocker.

One guy who was once regarded as an above blocker, but is now is closer to avergae because of age and injury and has always been a belwo average pass catcher.

One guy who last live game action was the 2003 Senoir bowl because of injuries. when he lines up in a preseason game it will 2.5 years since live game action.

One guy obtained off the practive squad who has not been regularly activiated.

IMO, going into the off-season the only position in worse shape is the DL. i zero issues with a FA acquisition and/or a high draft pick. It is not a luxury.
 
Vinny said:
I'm not so sure that you have to play a guy his first year in order to consider it a good pick for that particular draft.

I absolutely agree with this statement--hence the fact that I made a joke about it. In fact, hopefully it will be increasingly difficult for rookies to break into the starting lineup.
 
infantrycak said:
I absolutely agree with this statement--hence the fact that I made a joke about it. In fact, hopefully it will be increasingly difficult for rookies to break into the starting lineup.

even though there are 'need' positions for the Texans, i don't think that there is one where a rookie automatically starts as it has been the 1st three years.
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
even though there are 'need' positions for the Texans, i don't think that there is one where a rookie automatically starts as it has been the 1st three years.

I agree. If we get a NT and/or C in the draft, they probably won't start in 2005. Those are still areas that need serious draft consideration.
 
pek281 said:
I also agree completely with Fiddy that they just need time. It takes at least one season for an O-line to gel.
Bingo

Most people on this message board want to give Carr 4 years to develop but want to give the line one or two years to develop before we call for their heads (we have players in new positions in 4 of the 6 line positions if you include the TE). I guess Carr gets a special exemption from the fans because he is prettier than the linemen. Everyone who posts over and over about being patient with Carr needs to do the same with the O-line if they want any credibility. Both the line and Carr will have plenty of time to work out their problems by next year.
 
A lot of people say we are a one dimensional team. That's because we have a one dimensional coaching staff. I laugh at all of the nonsense being posted here. It comes from the heart, and I understand that, but nobody can see the tree for the forest. You take an outstanding O-line coach and we have a SB line. I'm sorry, but the answer is as simple as that. The players are confused and it shows. They don't know what their assingments really are. I've stated it many times, and many others have in so many words, and that is DOM only wants to play smash mouth football with a team that is incapable of playing that way. He has changed his offensive scheme to be that type of a team, except he doesn't have the personnel to play that type of game. They draft a QB whose forte is passing, not handing off the ball to a running back. They draft an extemely talented WR by the name of AJ and he wastes away in an anemic offense. Why does everyone think theses coaches are Saints? On second thought, may be they are. I know if I were the owner I would be less than joyous watching the lack luster performances I'm seeing on the field. There is one player they put through hell before the season began and he's the only consistant player on the ball club and thats JJ. He has the luxury of only having to play a few times each game. He consistantly does his job. I think most of you are going to be unpleasantly surprised at how badly we loose to the Bears and the rest of the teams we play this year. There is no heart and soul left in this team. This team has been badly mismanged and miscoached. Again you play a style of ball that fits the personnel you have, and you don't dream and play like you have Bettis.
 
Ibar_Harry said:
A lot of people say we are a one dimensional team. That's because we have a one dimensional coaching staff. I laugh at all of the nonsense being posted here. It comes from the heart, and I understand that, but nobody can see the tree for the forest. You take an outstanding O-line coach and we have a SB line. I'm sorry, but the answer is as simple as that. The players are confused and it shows. They don't know what their assingments really are. I've stated it many times, and many others have in so many words, and that is DOM only wants to play smash mouth football with a team that is incapable of playing that way. He has changed his offensive scheme to be that type of a team, except he doesn't have the personnel to play that type of game. They draft a QB whose forte is passing, not handing off the ball to a running back. They draft an extemely talented WR by the name of AJ and he wastes away in an anemic offense. Why does everyone think theses coaches are Saints? On second thought, may be they are. I know if I were the owner I would be less than joyous watching the lack luster performances I'm seeing on the field. There is one player they put through hell before the season began and he's the only consistant player on the ball club and thats JJ. He has the luxury of only having to play a few times each game. He consistantly does his job. I think most of you are going to be unpleasantly surprised at how badly we loose to the Bears and the rest of the teams we play this year. There is no heart and soul left in this team. This team has been badly mismanged and miscoached. Again you play a style of ball that fits the personnel you have, and you don't dream and play like you have Bettis.

Charlie Weiss, the new Notre Dame Coach/ex Patriots OC, made some
interesting statements ( can be found on the Notre Dame web site ) at
his press conference when asked what kind of offense the Fighting Irish
will have next year. Weiss's answer was that it depended on the personnel
he had but there were 3 basic themes that depended upon where the
strength of the offense was-- strength could be tight ends, or running
backs, or wide receivers. His offense will feature whatever group provides
the best oppurtunity to win. He only mentioned the OL as the remaining 5
players that make up an offense but-basically-will not dictate what offense
will be run. He also had interesting comments about excuses!!
 
The grass is always greener. I remember when everyone in Cleveland wanted Belichick ran off because he didn't know what he was doing. I remember when everyone wanted Butch Davis because he was the next coming of Tom Landry.
 
I just have a small question. Why would they draft a stud WR like AJ, then try to instill a blocking scheme that helps build a run dominated offense? I think we did AJ a disservice by drafting him and putting him in this system that accentuates running the ball as well as Carr. We Should have drafted completely differently. OL, DL, RB, LB's should have our focus. Any QB can handoff and throw dump passes. I honestly do not believe right now there is a system that uses AJ correctly. Mike Martz or Tony Dungy would have AJ with 1400 yards and 12 TD's right now. Sorry I am tired of watching games where I here the annoucer say "Why aren't they getting it to Andre Johnson? He has to get into the offense more for them to win." Does anybody ever remember hearing the announcers say that? :hairpull: :soapbox:
 
Well, this may be the first time a 3rd year expansion team has had a receiver like AJ. They're O-line isn't dominating at anything at all. This is NOT the production they want from their line.
 
rittenhouserobz said:
Sorry I am tired of watching games where I here the annoucer say "Why aren't they getting it to Andre Johnson? He has to get into the offense more for them to win." Does anybody ever remember hearing the announcers say that?

More than likely, the announcers don't have any more of a clue to what's going on than we do. :heh:
 
More than likely, the announcers don't have any more of a clue to what's going on than we do

Evidently they don't.
And to all you criers for AJ, how about 71 catches and a possible pro bowl appearance. Yeah, I guess we did him a disservice.

And Ibar, how about posting about something other than how much you can't stand our coaches. I guess by your terms anyone could be our QB because all they have to do is hand the ball off. Heck, let's just phone up Ryan Leaf. I may not know what I'm talking about most of the time, but your redundant ***** posts are getting old. Get a clue.
 
Marcus said:
More than likely, the announcers don't have any more of a clue to what's going on than we do. :heh:

I think the coaches around the league may be the only ones who do know more than some of you guys. A lot of the so-called experts are clueless.
 
Chance_C said:
And to all you criers for AJ, how about 71 catches and a possible pro bowl appearance. Yeah, I guess we did him a disservice.

Totally outside your point and everything but when I read this I thought "You know, in a few years we're going to be thinking that 71 catches makes for a down year for AJ" and that was a cool mental picture that popped into my head. I just had one of those "Damn he's going to be good!" moments.
 
Chance_C said:
Evidently they don't.
And to all you criers for AJ, how about 71 catches and a possible pro bowl appearance. Yeah, I guess we did him a disservice.

And Ibar, how about posting about something other than how much you can't stand our coaches. I guess by your terms anyone could be our QB because all they have to do is hand the ball off. Heck, let's just phone up Ryan Leaf. I may not know what I'm talking about most of the time, but your redundant ***** posts are getting old. Get a clue.

My posts are redundant, because the coaches are the problem. By the way Ryan Leaf probably would do well with this offense and would be a lot less expensive.
 
rhc564 said:
Charlie Weiss, the new Notre Dame Coach/ex Patriots OC, made some
interesting statements ( can be found on the Notre Dame web site ) at
his press conference when asked what kind of offense the Fighting Irish
will have next year. Weiss's answer was that it depended on the personnel
he had but there were 3 basic themes that depended upon where the
strength of the offense was-- strength could be tight ends, or running
backs, or wide receivers. His offense will feature whatever group provides
the best oppurtunity to win. He only mentioned the OL as the remaining 5
players that make up an offense but-basically-will not dictate what offense
will be run. He also had interesting comments about excuses!!

Thanks for the post, because this has been the heart and soul of many of my posts. Many fans keep posting the things they see wrong including Vinny. However, the solution to all of the problems are a new set of coaches, some new players, and yes, we are going to have to start over. Why, because injuries along with coaching have desimated this team for at least another 2 to 3 years if we are lucky. Injuries have hurt Capers defensive system and rendered it usless. That's unfornuate, but Casserly and Capers were expecting a greater length of service out of some key older and experienced defensive players. That plan blew up with the injuries. The end result is that they must retrench and start new. Unfortunately, that alone will take at least two years and may be longer.
 
Ibar_Harry said:
Thanks for the post, because this has been the heart and soul of many of my posts. Many fans keep posting the things they see wrong including Vinny. However, the solution to all of the problems are a new set of coaches, some new players, and yes, we are going to have to start over. Why, because injuries along with coaching have desimated this team for at least another 2 to 3 years if we are lucky. Injuries have hurt Capers defensive system and rendered it usless. That's unfornuate, but Casserly and Capers were expecting a greater length of service out of some key older and experienced defensive players. That plan blew up with the injuries. The end result is that they must retrench and start new. Unfortunately, that alone will take at least two years and may be longer.

What in the HELL are you talkin about? The coaches are not going anywhere as was stated in the in the paper a few days ago. What injuries are you talkin about (Coleman, Foreman)? Everyone besides them is healthy. You make it seem like we have as many injuries as the TITANS right now. Arron Glenn should play for about 2 maybe 3 more years. Jamie still has some left in him, the only player i really see that needs to retire is Gary Walker, he's a good guy, but he's old and needs to hang it up.

As for the coaches, regardless of what any of you think. It doesn't matter how good of a coach you are, if the guys you have physically don't have any talent, they're not going to play good (Offensive Line; Seth Wand). If he is not physically able to play against the RE's of other teams. It doesn't matter what you tell that persn as a coach, he AIN'T, yes i said AIN'T, going to get the job done!

Bottom Line. :hairpull:
_________________________________________________________________

Get off the coaches back, good lord. They are not leaving anytime soon deal with it! :whew
 
Ibar_Harry said:
That's unfornuate, but Casserly and Capers were expecting a greater length of service out of some key older and experienced defensive players. That plan blew up with the injuries. The end result is that they must retrench and start new. Unfortunately, that alone will take at least two years and may be longer.

Where do you get this stuff? Four of eleven likely defensive starters next year will be young guys coming into their own--Babin, Robinson, Peek & Earl. I would bet Payne comes back to his 2003 form next year and Robaire is a young guy that will have a year of 3-4 under his belt. Wong will be coming off the best season he's ever had. There is no reason this D cannot respond next year, especially with the infusion of another defense heavy draft--and if your expectations were to have the Baltimore defense this year, they were out of whack to begin with.
 
Ibar, does your glass EVER get half full? It may have happened, but I have yet to see a positive post by you. There are a LOT of positives for this team and MOST of the unrest on the board are from over inflated expectations for this season. If you check the stats for offense in nearly every catagory and most skill positions we are at about the middle of the league and that's not bad for a team that hasn't even finished its third season. Yes, we have been very inconsistant and the defense isn't playing as well as the experience level would indicate, but all is not a disaster, it just needs a bit more time and play together for the most part and a few more players.
 
aj. said:
The grass is always greener. I remember when everyone in Cleveland wanted Belichick ran off because he didn't know what he was doing. I remember when everyone wanted Butch Davis because he was the next coming of Tom Landry.

100% agree....remember when Belichick was derided as a guy who was a coordinator who wasn't head-coach material? (Sounds vaguely familiar...)

To the issue of how long we give each player before we say they should stay or go, it's difficult. Chester Pitts is still here and he hasn't been part of a successful offensive line yet; how many Oiler fans remember how truly bad Brad Hopkins was with false starts in the early part of his career? If a guy has shown flashes of greatness he may just need time to get consistent. I hope that's what they're seeing with Pitts, because he literally couldn't be given any more chances than he's getting. (Worth noting that he did make a position change this year, albeit to his "natural" position.)

Pitts, though, was never labeled a "project" or given the job basically because he's huge. That's my gripe with Seth Wand. He's a big guy and that's about it. So's my mechanic, but I don't expect him to be an NFL tackle. End the "project" and find somebody who belongs in this league.

Carr? I've heard NFL minds say for years that a QB needs 4 seasons to mature. During the hot streak this year, I thought Carr may have suddenly cut that short and figured it all out. Obviously not. I'll wait another year to break out the pitchforks and torches for Carr, Capers, etc....

Teams in constant flux generally don't get better. More than anything, I don't want the Texans to become another Arizona or Washington, where mediocrity is expected. Ironically, the best way to ensure that sort of fate is to RAISE the expectations too quickly. I fully expect this team to finish 7-9 or 8-8, and that's not an unreasonable expectation. If they have the same record in January that they do right now, then it may indeed be appropriate to make SOME changes--but not wholesale ones.
 
infantrycak said:
Where do you get this stuff? Four of eleven likely defensive starters next year will be young guys coming into their own--Babin, Robinson, Peek & Earl. I would bet Payne comes back to his 2003 form next year and Robaire is a young guy that will have a year of 3-4 under his belt. Wong will be coming off the best season he's ever had. There is no reason this D cannot respond next year, especially with the infusion of another defense heavy draft--and if your expectations were to have the Baltimore defense this year, they were out of whack to begin with.

I think there are real questions as to how effective Payne and Walker will be from here on out. You think they will be fully recovered and I do not. We suffered more injuries than any one else last year and that's a fact. Those injuries have had an enormous effect on what has happened this year. People were still healing at the beginning of the season and they played on. We have not been able to attain last year's efficiency. Everyone had hoped BJ would be back, but he's not. Will he every be back? Will Hollings ever make it? The list goes on and on. I'm not saying its the coaches fault that players got injured, but it is a fact that we have had some very devastating injuries to players. I personally think we will have to due a lot of retrenching. I think Glenn might be on the downhill side of things. Part of his performance this year could be the result of lack of a pass rush, but only time will tell. Coleman was converted to his new position, in part, because of age. Now he's injured. Will it be fixed, probably, but its not a certain thing. The Bosselli injury was a gamble. We have gambled a lot on injured personnel recovering and it hasn't happened as well as we would like.
 
Ibar_Harry said:
The Bosselli injury was a gamble. We have gambled a lot on injured personnel recovering and it hasn't happened as well as we would like.
You're right about the Bosselli selection in the X draft, there was a gamble because of his injury but I don't think we were as confidant as we let on at
the time we took him that he would eventually play for us. But we were heavily hedged in that transaction with the Jags because we got Payne & Walker in the package with Bosselli. Taking Hollings with a second round pick
was a huge gamble by Cass because he was such an unknown quantity as
a running back - a converted DB who played in only 4 college games. The
injury boosted the risk factor.
I dunno, the wife & I are planning on a Vegas trip next month and I just know we're gonna walk into one of those casinos on the strip and there's gonna be this huge crowd gathered around a **** table and there will be Cass - rolling the dice, betting big, and the crowd roaring.
 
Ibar_Harry said:
I think there are real questions as to how effective Payne and Walker will be from here on out. You think they will be fully recovered and I do not. We suffered more injuries than any one else last year and that's a fact.

First off, your post that I responded to was about the defense so I was not talking about injuries such as Joppru, Boselli, Hollings, Carr, etc. On defense, my point is injuries last year, even those that still hurt this year don't necessarily mean they will be ongoing problems next year and they don't support your statement that it will take 2+ more years for the D to come together. It seems you want to treat any injured player as permanently lost/ineffective. Virtually every player in the NFL has been injured at some point. Payne has consistantly improved as the year has gone on and is getting much closer to his old form (stats aren't everything, but he will be near or possibly above his tackle/sack numbers from 2002). There has not been any indication of reinjury and with his work ethic IMO it is more likely than not he will fully recover. Other than pessimism what makes you think Payne will not recover? Walker has been a disappointment this year, but what evidence do you have that it is due to injury rather than playing with a notable lack of the fire he had in 2002? Ramon Walker will also be bringing his depth and outstanding special teams play back next year. JMO, but the playing time for the young guys that play substantial roles in the Texans D--Babin, Peek, Robinson, Faggins, Earl--will outweigh the lingering effects of 2003 injuries in 2005.
 
infantrycak said:
Payne has consistantly improved as the year has gone on and is getting much closer to his old form (stats aren't everything, but he will be near or possibly above his tackle/sack numbers from 2002). There has not been any indication of reinjury and with his work ethic IMO it is more likely than not he will fully recover.
Yup, he's lookin' good. Always felt he was more valuable to us than Walker.
Plus he's still < 30. He is in his contract year I believe. Has anybody heard anything on getting him resigned ?
 
Gary Walker has always been one of my favorite Texans. I'm hoping he rebounds next year. Two-gap linemen tend to stick around and play in their older years. Perhaps his injury has a bit of a carry over effect.
 
I wonder if Seth Wand or Marcus Spears will start at LT against the Jags. Spears seemed to play a lot of LT today, mostly third down it seemed.

Hopefully Wiegert is ok because Washington sucks. :slap:
 
wags said:
I wonder if Seth Wand or Marcus Spears will start at LT against the Jags. Spears seemed to play a lot of LT today, mostly third down it seemed.

Hopefully Wiegert is ok because Washington sucks. :slap:

the game notes said that Zach looks to be out for the year.
 
wags said:
Spears seemed to play a lot of LT today, mostly third down it seemed.
On the post-game radio show they were calling Wand the Anti-Peek. He was coming out in passing downs.
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
the game notes said that Zach looks to be out for the year.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

:slap:
 
What is wrong with McKinney? Let me count the ways. But really he simply gets beat one-on-one up the gut too much. That is overly simplistic, I know, but it also distills in a few words what is wrong with McKinney.

I don't too often agree so completely with Vinny but I agree pretty much with his post above.

I think they should trash the zone blocking scheme, because it seems to confuse us more than the opposition.

Maybe it is because they get hurt too much, and still try to play. Or it is they haven't played beside one another for long enough, or just what it is, but McKinny and Weigert, over the course of the year, have been the weak points more than anyone else on the O-line. Wand is limited only by his lack of experience. He was more or less thrown to the Lions this year in an effort to force feed him into playing the LT position. It is way too early to get negative on Wand. He needs to look at a ton of film over the off-season with his position coach to show him his mistakes, especially against the Freenys of the world. He will eventually become an asset at the position.
 
this is still the first year in the new zone blocking scheme and i dont see us getting any worse in the future. I think we will only get better with time. I like how after David Carr threw a fit today, the O-Line pulled together and you didn't see much pressure on him after that.

If we are still having these same problems next year than yes i think we may need to start looking at a new blocking scheme.
 
Between Todd Washington, Milford Brown, and Fred Weary I believe they'll be able to find someone to fill in capably for Weigert. Sure it's not as good as having Weigert in there but it should get us through the last two games.

On Wand I'm thinking that this is good for him. He's still ahead of where I thought he'd be. Like a lot of people I was surprised he was ready to start this year and apparently he's not completely ready to be starting or he wouldn't be coming out on passing downs now. He has the physical tools to be a very good LT. He's obviously a hard worker and working hard at it. If he has someone replacing him on passing downs that's going to challenge him to come back and put a stop to it so I expect Wand to work twice as hard as before. He just started this thing with a long way to go but I'm impressed with how hard he's worked if not always the way things have turned out.
 
Wondering what yall thought about next years OL. We have the worst center in the league. He spends entire games on the ground. Its embarrassing. Does he even workout? Do you think we will do anything to address the issue. Like move Wiegert to center, and leave Brown at RG. I didnt know if the Texans org. felt like they should keep him because hes a local guy/media guy. Any thoughts?
 
Ah, it's not all on Steve - wasn't he a guard before he joined up with the Texans? Depends if we can find a center to replace. If so - then it'll depends on how fast he can be put into the speed of the NFL and learn the system.

If all goes well, then McKinney will start or provide depth at guard (depending on who wants the job more) as well as be depth for center.... my 2 cents.
 
Well, if Casserly wanted to draft a center in the 2nd round, like Vince Carter or Donovan Raiola, I wouldn't complain.

Either one of them would be an instant upgrade over McKinney IMHO.
 
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