Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍

Offensive Line

infantrycak

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
At least IMO, the OL has been the single greatest failure of the Texans this year. The pass protection is better than the run blocking but only because the run blocking is miserable. So what does it take to improve the OL next year:

a) time--they just need to gel
b) new personnel at one of more positions--I will nominate center
c) a new OL coach--some how San Diego's OL coach has changed 4 out of 5 guys and replaced them, including putting in 2 rookies and a vet considered a yeoman on other teams
d) dump the zone blocking
e) a combination of the above or
f) leave it alone--it is all the RB and QB's fault

Not having heard anyone else's opinion, IMO they need a center and to let the line gel. I just don't know about the zone blocking and am willing to be patient but it clearly isn't working right now. It appears we missed out by not grabbing the coach San Diego got when we got Pendry but have no idea if there is a better OL coach out there that would make a difference--if not stick with (a) & (b).
 
Cak,

I think once before you posted info on the sacks given up and penalties called on each lineman. Can you update that?
 
I think it's a combination of the above and the only real choice here is to leave it alone. Not because it's all the QB and RB's fault but because the only thing that's going to improve this bunch is time together and experience.

Wand, He's got to learn it and keep getting better. Right now he's wet behind the ears and learning his second scheme in two years.. That's not good and that's not just about the Texans line. Players that come up in stable systems, consistent systems have a head start on players who get their systems changed all the time. At this point I'd rather wait and see where this zone blocking scheme goes, see what we're looking at in 2005 and then draw a conclusion from that.

Pitts, He's doing his second system in three years and he's playing a new position for the first time in his career. All the talk about his being a natural guard has obscured the fact that he's always been a tackle even in college. He's destined to be a guard in the NFL but this is his first year there. He needs more time and like Wand he needs to not be learning a new system next year. Granted he'd have it easier going back to the old system since he started in it for two years before the zone blocking scheme got here but he'd have to learn what a guard does in the old scheme.

McKinney, the only cure for McKinney is I fear a replacement. McKinney was a better guard and is a terrible center. The Texans need to be looking at the draft for a center or if there isn't one there worth drafting they need to be looking to trade for or sign one. In terms of excuses his only one is that this is his first season with the zone blocking scheme. He might get it down better with time but he's always going to be Steve McKinney.

Weigert, second year here in his second system and playing next to a new guy on his right and Steve McKinney on his left. We know Weigert can play. We've seen him play and play well. I consider him to be a victim of what's going on around him, new players and a new system. If the zone blocking scheme is the future then I expect him to get it down and do well in it. Until he's next to a real center and Todd Wade gets comfortable though he's not going to look good consistently.

Wade, new guy in a new system. I'd have thought he would be settled in by now but I'd have been wrong. I still think he's going to be a good signing but like the rest of them he's taking to the zone slowly and he has been injured some this season.

The zone works elsewhere. The players we have are not bad players. At one time or another they've all (excluding Wand who's a first time starter and McKinney who is what he is) played well and I expect them to play well again. The learning part seems to be going slow and trying to learn a system while getting comfortable with a bunch of teammates you're unfamiliar with is probably very hard. I think changing again so quickly is going to set them back at this point. Hindsight might say that changing wasn't such a good idea (it does to me) but changing again is going to just mess things up even more.

One more year to see whether this is going to work. If they're looking at 6 wins in 2005 and the running game sucks rocks again then I say ditch it. For now though the Texans just need to sleep in the bed they made.
 
mckinney must be replaced. ideally i'd like for them to get a center who's versitile enough to play guard if necessary.

is it abundantly clear yet that fred weary will only be a depth player at best?
and-- i'd say the same for milford brown (a bit premature i know) ,but i seem to recall hearing rumblings from training camp that he had an honest chance to start.

i'm curious as to what the overall consensus is on seth wand.

i think hes been "ok" for the most part. (keep in mind i had visions of carr going down for the season because of him).
 
I did too Powda. Wand was the "Ok, this looks alright but it could all go to hell in one play" guy on the line I thought. Last season all I heard was that he was a project with no strength who had played at a small school with no coaching or conditioning program. I couldn't believe he'd be ready to start this season. I just couldn't make myself believe it.

You know what I'd like to know? I'd like to know how Wand has stacked up against Pitts in his first season at LT. To provide more balance I'd like to also know how he stacks up to Pitts in his second season. Has he been that big a drop off from Pitts? I'm curious but I'm not a statistics commando so perhaps someone who is good with them might chime in with that.

Also I think Milford Brown is an eventual starter. He came close to taking a spot this season. He's going to pan out but he's not going to be one of those guys who can jump in there and start right away. Most offensive linemen spend time behind a starter it seems so this isn't too bad. He's just not ready.

Fred Weary? I just don't know about Fred Weary. If Brown's getting it slowly then Weary's crawling. Maybe he's just a longterm project or maybe he's always going to be depth. All of our draft choices aren't going to pan out so maybe he's one of them. I just don't know. I know one thing though. The grabbed Pitts and Weary with an eye towards playing them at LG and RG respectively. They planned on supporting them with veterans surrounding them (Boselli, McKinney, and Young) but then they grabbed Brown in the expansion draft right away. Sure the Texans needed depth everywhere but deep down inside I think even then they had the idea in the back of their minds that Fred was going to take a while to come around. Since the got Brown I've never heard of Weary being a potential starter, just Brown on that side.
 
Defensive Line IMO. Texans offense ranks 14th in the NFL while the defense is 29th even though the secondary has the 2nd most interceptions. The front 3 of the Texans are not failing because of inexperience either with Walker in the NFL 10 years, Payne 8 & Smith 5. Heck even Marcus Spears has 10 years & Corey Sears 5. On the other hand your blasting a offensive line that includes some veteran leadership Weigert 10, McKinney 7 & Wade 5 but also has youngsters Pitts 3 & the KEY LT manned by 2 year Seth Wand.

Yes I agree that the Texans need to continue to build the line, I'd like them to use their 2nd round pick as a matter of fact on Ben Wilkerson C, LSU. But our #1 priotiry has to be the infusion of a stud DT that can put more pressure on the QB's. This has been far and away the most disappointing aspect of the 2004 Texans IMO.
 
Here are the penalties and sacks for the line as it is now:

Wand--2 holding, 0 false starts, 7.5 sacks
Pitts--3 holding, 4 false starts, 3 sacks
(2003)--7 holding, 8 false starts, 5.75 sacks
(2002)--5 holding, 3 false starts, 15.5 sacks
McKinney--0 holding, 0 false starts, 3 sacks
(2003)--2 holding, 1 false start, 3.75 sacks
(2002)--0 holding, 2 false starts, 2 sacks
Wiegert--0 holding, 1 false start, 3 sacks
(2003)--1 holding, 6 false starts, 1.5 sacks
Wade--0 holding, 2 false starts, 4 sacks

Wand is on pace for a better statistical 1st year at LT than Pitts--of course remember, Wand has a much better LG next to him than Pitts did.

My gut feeling is the personnel is good except for McKinney and that a 1st day pick should be used to replace him and otherwise keep the line and the scheme the same.

Nice posts Herv--looks like pretty much the same conclusion with a much better explanation.
 
infantrycak said:
Wand--2 holding, 0 false starts, 7.5 sacks
Click to expand...
Dang, no false starts. That is a surprise. However, it would be fitting if he got a couple of early starts this week now that I know that he hasnt had a false start all season... :thud:
 
i'd like to see the sack numbers on him go down a little ! But other than that i have not been to dissapointed with his performance this year !
 
infantrycak said:
Here are the penalties and sacks for the line as it is now:

Wand--2 holding, 0 false starts, 7.5 sacks
Pitts--3 holding, 4 false starts, 3 sacks
(2003)--7 holding, 8 false starts, 5.75 sacks
(2002)--5 holding, 3 false starts, 15.5 sacks
McKinney--0 holding, 0 false starts, 3 sacks
(2003)--2 holding, 1 false start, 3.75 sacks
(2002)--0 holding, 2 false starts, 2 sacks
Wiegert--0 holding, 1 false start, 3 sacks
(2003)--1 holding, 6 false starts, 1.5 sacks
Wade--0 holding, 2 false starts, 4 sacks
Click to expand...
In all fairness to Wand (or who ever the LT is), ya gotta discount this # somewhat because he is usually going against the oppositions best
pass rusher.
 
Hervoyel said:
McKinney, the only cure for McKinney is I fear a replacement.
Click to expand...
Great post Herv - you da man when it comes to the OL. So if we do look to the college draft to upgrade McKinney, we can probably get a "top-of-the-line" center (or guard) in the 2nd or even 3rd round, unlike a top tackle which
usually means a first round pick ?
 
The key to the line has been the health of Wade. In the games he was totally out Spears was abused. I wonder what his numbers are. McKinney is playing the same as he has over 3 years. Decent position/pass blocker, but not a great power guy and can get bowled over at times. Even if the texans draft a center first lineman i expect that McKinney start next year before the prospect pass him.

7.5 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 4 = 20.5 sacks (not a terrible total) ...I know Spears gets a few more , but are there team sacks or do the TEs and RBs get some credit against them also?
 
infantrycak said:
Wand is on pace for a better statistical 1st year at LT than Pitts--of course remember, Wand has a much better LG next to him than Pitts did.
Click to expand...

And Wand is playing with a more experienced QB, as well.

What are the O-line options? Going back to the draft and picking up a LT in the draft won’t help in the immediate future. Robert Gallery was the best LT prospect in years, and he had to start out his career at RT. Unless you want to find a way to bring in Walter Jones in the offseason, you have to wait on Wand. If Wand could just pound on the smaller RDEs in the running game, it would help him slow down their pass rush. But the Texans have trailed too often in the 2nd half to make that a viable strategy. Wand & Pitts have been burned on stunts. Hard to know who’s to blame there, but that has to get fixed or Carr will get waxed.

Pitts needs to improve, but his history here indicates he will improve in his 2nd season at a position. Is this the right scheme for a power blocking guy like Chester? He’s not extremely quick, but Pitts can man handle a guy who comes right at him. Look at what he did to Stroud in the Jag game. It’s guys like the Colts’ Reagor who have given Pitts problems. But I believe that Pitts (and Wand) will get better over time.

The other guys are vets, and time is not on their side. I’m satisfied with Wade, but he hasn’t blown me away. He’s a solid, workman like lineman who doesn’t make a lot of mistakes. You can win with Wade at RT, but he won’t dominate.

What has disappointed me about McKinney is that he’s lost his quickness. He always had problems with players directly over him, but now he has trouble sliding over to double team or pick up blitzers. Has Steve’s knee problem from the preseason carried over into the regular season? I thought the zone blocking scheme would be a good fit for McKinney, but that hasn’t proven true. Still, can you bring in a rookie and ask him to make the line calls? It may be the ’06 season before McKinney can be replaced.

Wiegert’s sack numbers (Three?) seem low to me. I know he’s given up a lot of penetration this year on runs & passes. Last season, Zach would demolish the guy in front of him. This year, he’s taking bad angles and whiffing on blocks. The new blocking scheme may have hurt Wiegert more than anyone else. I see keeping Zach as an either/or proposition. Either Wiegert goes or the zone blocking is trashed. With his cap number rising to $3.3 million next year, Wiegert being replaced by a younger, cheaper, more athletic lineman seems to be the best choice. Regarding the reserve linemen on the Texans, if they could play it would have become apparant by now.

There are legendary O-line coaches who can piece together a unit from scraps. Hudson Houck (with the Chargers), Alex Gibbs, Jim McNally come to mind. If a guy like that became available, I’d say jump on him. Otherwise, just stay with the guys that are here (Pendry & Marshall). And I wouldn’t dump the zone blocking, but add to it. Run some traps, pull some linemen, block man on man sometimes. Don’t be such a one trick pony.

With a quarter of the season left, I reserve the right to change my mind. But unless major improvement is shown over the last 4 games, I think something has to change regarding the O-line in ’05.
 
The left side of the line is set. Pitts and Wand just need to continue to work together. They have the quickest feet of all the linemen and will be our left side for years.

Wade is going to be here for years also. RT is set.

Weigert and McKinney will need upgrading in the near future but it would not shock me to see this entire group as our starters next year.
 
powda said:
mckinney must be replaced. ideally i'd like for them to get a center who's versitile enough to play guard if necessary.
Click to expand...

Maybe "Inside Skinney" should sign up with his own business venture, Velocity. They are suppose to increase strength, quickness, and agility. :hmmm:
 
Vinny said:
The left side of the line is set. Pitts and Wand just need to continue to work together. They have the quickest feet of all the linemen and will be our left side for years.

Wade is going to be here for years also. RT is set.

I couldnt agree more with you Vinny.While the o-line stinks as a consistant unit I think were on the brink of having a good if not dominate o-line in the near future.Time together and maybe one upgrade and I think we"ll be there.
Click to expand...
 
So to summarize even those of us who believe that switching blocking schemes might have been a mistake also think that our best chance of getting better is to push on with it. I think Carr could have used another season of consistency that would have come from the Texans building their running game on the previous years progress but that decision has been made. There's nothing to be gained now by trying to go back to what was. All we can do is keep trying to make "what is" work the way it's supposed to. It's going to be alright in the long run. I believe that.
 
I do not understand why you people think we need a new center what's wrong with McKinney, someone please tell me! MAybe yall r looking at something that im not,but in my eyes McKinney is not the problem the problem is the LT, yes he goes up against some of the best, but heck we're in the NFL for crying out loud. I think we need a faster and more agile LT, IMO that is our #1 concern for the O-Line not McKinney.
 
AndreJ said:
...I think we need a faster and more agile LT, IMO that is our #1 concern for the O-Line not McKinney.
Click to expand...
About what's wrong with McKinney...I think most people would agree that the Texans aren't getting much of a push in the middle of the O-line. That's where Steve lives. The Texans allow a lot of penetration up the middle from the pass rush. Again, where's Steve?

I think almost every team would like a more agile LT (in their price range). But, they don't grow on trees. I think Wand is a good athlete for a LT. He seems a little slow now because he's thinking rather than reacting. We're all hoping that changes with experience. Walter Jones might finally make it to free agency this offseason. Are you ready to give a 8 figure signing bonus to a 31 year old LT? More importantly, do you think Casserly would? I'm thinking he won't, so getting Wand experience now seems to be the smart play.
 
AndreJ said:
I do not understand why you people think we need a new center what's wrong with McKinney, someone please tell me! MAybe yall r looking at something that im not,but in my eyes McKinney is not the problem the problem is the LT, yes he goes up against some of the best, but heck we're in the NFL for crying out loud. I think we need a faster and more agile LT, IMO that is our #1 concern for the O-Line not McKinney.
Click to expand...

Wand does not have an issue with his feet quickness. he needs more strength and aggressivenss. also, the LT in most offense will have the highest sack total because they are normally facing the opposition's best pas pusher. McKinney gets blown up at times in the middle and never really gets a push. he was a better position/pass blocker but does not seem to do that as well. Wand has not been embarrassing on the left side considering its his first year as a starter. If dominate LT type comes available to the Texans then yeah go get him, but about half the team in the NFL have a worse situation at LT than the Texans.
 
I do not understand why you people think we need a new center what's wrong with McKinney, someone please tell me!
Click to expand...
Watch the replay of McKinney vs. Randy Starks on the play when Carr should have been called for the safety against TN. That wasn't an isolated case and it's a very good example of why we are weak up the middle. That was supposed to be pass protection but he gets blown up on running plays too.
 
aj. said:
Watch the replay of McKinney vs. Randy Starks
Click to expand...
And replay the trade of Babin for Randy Starks & Ben Troupe. Woah ! Let
me see, do we need a TE (a real TE who can catch passes & who has the size to get a D linemans attention when he throws a block who is also young guy for the future) and a D lineman who played in the 3-4 in college who is there for the future and can start for us today. Geez Cass, did you lose your shirt on this deal or what ?
 
As a frame of reference for Wade, here are Spears stats on very limited duty:

1 false start, 0 holds, 2 sacks.

As for McKinney, it just seems clear from rewatching the games that the center of the line is a huge problem, so much so that I would blame some of both Wiegert and Pitts' problems on McKinney. McKinney, good guy that he is, is simply incapable of getting the push on rushing plays or holding the line on passing plays that is necessary. We need the offensive opposite of Smith or Payne as a center--someone who never gets pushed back and if anything moves forward--a huge push forward upon which the D-line breaks around rather than a gap they can exploit. Going into this off-season, at this point center is what is the greatest need IMO.
 
infantrycak said:
As a frame of reference for Wade, here are Spears stats on very limited duty:

1 false start, 0 holds, 2 sacks.

As for McKinney, it just seems clear from rewatching the games that the center of the line is a huge problem, so much so that I would blame some of both Wiegert and Pitts' problems on McKinney. McKinney, good guy that he is, is simply incapable of getting the push on rushing plays or holding the line on passing plays that is necessary. We need the offensive opposite of Smith or Payne as a center--someone who never gets pushed back and if anything moves forward--a huge push forward upon which the D-line breaks around rather than a gap they can exploit. Going into this off-season, at this point center is what is the greatest need IMO.
Click to expand...


Agreed. Although DL, RB, and TE (If Joppru never plays) need to be addressed also. Hopefully we can get a free agent center and RB in the off season and continue to address defense in the draft.
 
I would go with a, and d. I think they could shake up things a bit more if they started someone else at center . Kinda like when they benched moon in 1990's and then the Oilers won 12 straight.
 
Fiddy said:
Dang, no false starts. That is a surprise. However, it would be fitting if he got a couple of early starts this week now that I know that he hasnt had a false start all season... :thud:
Click to expand...
You have got to be kidding me. :rofl:
 
Vinny said:
The left side of the line is set. Pitts and Wand just need to continue to work together. They have the quickest feet of all the linemen and will be our left side for years.
Click to expand...

That is a scary thought. eek:

Both Pitts and Wiegert looked bad in pass protection, not to mention the false starts(Pitts 2, Wiegert 1). I wouldn't mind a new guard in the offseason.

Wand needs to get stronger. Much stronger.
 
Up and down game today. They were horrible at times and they had nice blocks at times. On balance it wasn't solid. I just don't understand why we have Wand on Freeney one-on-one so much.
 
wags said:
Wand needs to get stronger. Much stronger.
Click to expand...
You know that Feeney can finesse Wand, but turns out he can also overpower him. And Wand has 75 lbs & 6-7 inches on him. The guy has got to be anemic for someone of that size. They need to get him in the weight room this winter and lock the doors.
 
Well our offensive line has managed to give up more sacks in 13 games this year (37) than all 16 last year (36). Congratulations guys. :sumo:
 
From Mike Wilkening, Pro Football Weekly, November 18, 2004:

"I’m not trying to be flippant, but watching Carr scramble for his NFL life last week in the RCA Dome really got me questioning how long it’s going to take the Texans to have consistent success. Because until the Texans start making Carr feel safe in the pocket, the painful defeats will be plenty, the playoff trips will be zero.

Carr was supposed to have endured the worst of the punishment at the hands of defensive linemen in his rookie season, when a patchwork line allowed a league-record 76 sacks. The O-line did make strides in 2003, allowing less than half as many sacks as it had the previous season. But personnel types around the AFC generally believed it to be a weak unit still in need of plenty of work.

Seeking better results, the Texans made a handful of personnel changes along the line in the offseason. Veteran ORT Todd Wade was signed away from Miami. Chester Pitts, Houston’s left tackle in those first two seasons, slid to left guard, with athletic Seth Wand taking over as Carr’s blind-side protector.

After a rough start to this season (10 sacks allowed in the first three games), the line started to settle down. Carr was sacked only six times in the next four games. With time to throw, we saw Carr blossom. We saw the arm strength, accuracy and playmaking ability that convinced the Texans to build their team around him. It’s no coincidence Carr threw six touchdowns against only one interception in this stretch.

By Election Day, the Texans were factors in the AFC South, kicked around as hip, dark-horse division-title candidates.

But then came the trip to Denver, where the Broncos outmuscled them from the start. Carr was sacked four times, threw no touchdowns, and the Texans lost 31-13.
As bad as that performance was, the Colts game was much worse. DEs Robert Mathis and Dwight Freeney whipped Wand and Marcus Spears, who was filling in for the injured Wade. The result was a 49-14 loss, which Carr, who was sacked five times and pressured on numerous occasions, unfavorably compared to the string of punishing defeats he took in 2002."

Full article

I have no faith in Wand. I disagree with the idea that a young franchise QB's blind side should be trusted to someone they called a "project" in the offseason.
 
i totally agree...if there is away seattle parts ways with walter jones because of their needs with saun alexander and matt we need to be the team that gets him...overpay him just to make sure he's on our roster next year...that's what i'm thinking...wand is a really good back-up...maybe a decent RT but as far as LT he doesn't seem to have the strength or the feet for it...personally i think pitts made a better LT than he did
 
I've come to the conclusion that there's nothing left to do but watch and wait for this mess to come together. If it takes the rest of this year and if Carr's beaten down into a little lump of bruised flesh then that's what's going to happen. There's no other solution to this.

You can't fix it right now no matter what happens. Moving Pitts back out to LT isn't going to make the last three games any easier on Carr. Changing the blocking scheme isn't going to correct things. It will only aggravate the inconsistency we already have there. Wand may be a project but he's a project we're in the middle of right now so we're going to have to see this through.

I've also spent some time considering my criticism of the coaches decision to implement the zone blocking scheme. Upon reflection I think I was wrong and lest anyone say that I'm retracting because of the day DD had against the Colts I'd like to add that this thought has been bouncing around my head for several days.

Had Capers & Co. opted to install the zone blocking scheme in 2002 when the team began I think the effort would have been wasted. Wand and Wade weren't even here then. Pitts wasn't playing the same position then, and McKinney was... well he was and still is Steve McKinney. Basically they'd have been taking the time to teach a blocking scheme to a bunch of guys who were not going to be here in the following years. Today we'd be looking at Pitts learning the scheme for the first time in his new position, Wade and Wand learning it for the first time in their positions, Weigert in his second year in it, and McKinney sucking at it for two years in a row.

I now conceed that this season with all of it's warts was the correct time to implement such a scheme and that the rewards we all want to see should become apparent in 2005 if they are in fact going to happen. As fans we're all just going to have to suck it up and watch the end of this train wreck and then be ready to come back for some more football in 2005.

The only other option is to jump the wagon and go get a silver and blue cap with a star on it (or something along those lines) and I'm not going to do that while I still have a choice. Capers ain't going anywhere, Palmer ain't going anywhere, and the zone blocking scheme ain't going anywhere. If it looks this bad next year then maybe some changes might be coming down the pipe but no sooner than that.
 
Hervoyel said:
I've come to the conclusion that there's nothing left to do but watch and wait for this mess to come together. If it takes the rest of this year and if Carr's beaten down into a little lump of bruised flesh then that's what's going to happen. There's no other solution to this.
Click to expand...
You're gettin' pretty graphic on us there Herv. I don't think we want poor Dave's physical appearance to approach that condition, else he wouldn't have
time to play or practice because he'd be so beat-up & sheel-shocked he'd be spending all of his time in the hospital and talking to a shrink. But whatever
they decide to do about zone-blocking (keep it or drop it), they still gotta find some people who can pass-block & protect Dave when he drops back to pass. Especially over on the LT island.
 
Actually Wade had zone blocking in Miami. The Texans will still have to teach zone blocking to whoever replaces Wiegert and McKinney. I still think it would have been better to start it in 2002 than now. It did look like we ran the ball better today so maybe this is a sign of improvement although pass blocking is horrible.

Here is a good article from www.Houstonprofootball.com

November 25, 2004
It's All Downhill From Here
by Keith Weiland
HoustonProFootball.com

Ten games into the season and the Texans' running game is still going nowhere. With the implementation of a slight variation of the zone blocking scheme on the offensive line, weren’t we supposed to be watching something akin to what we see in Denver and Baltimore?
Click to expand...
 
I think that if Carr is beat up for another season, he might just start getting the screw it all attitude. I mean hell I wouldn't piss on fire to put my o-line out if they aren't going to do there freakin jobs and block like they r supposed to. I mean c'mon guys, I know they don't get paid much, but it's a hell of alot more than what I make and my job is 10 times as painfull and dangerous.
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
Wand does not have an issue with his feet quickness. he needs more strength and aggressivenss. also, the LT in most offense will have the highest sack total because they are normally facing the opposition's best pas pusher. Wand has not been embarrassing on the left side considering its his first year as a starter. If dominate LT type comes available to the Texans then yeah go get him, but about half the team in the NFL have a worse situation at LT than the Texans.
Click to expand...

Can I take this back???
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
Can I take this back???
Click to expand...

I thought you pretty much nailed this:

Wand does not have an issue with his feet quickness. he needs more strength and aggressivenss
Click to expand...

Who knew Freeney would be stronger than Wand? I don't think even Freeney realized that until the 2nd half.
 
I think i've figured out the line problems. With Joe Pendry on board the Texans have switched to a zone blocking scheme.

This year the focus is on the zone part.
Next year they learn to block.

:jumpbanan

Then, it's time to celebrate.

Seth Wand did a wonderful impersonation of the ticket takers at the gates. Although, they do sometimes slow people up a bit.
 
"Seth Wand did a wonderful impersonation of the ticket takers at the gates. Although, they do sometimes slow people up a bit."

Man........thats cold. :bouncey:

cac :coffee:
 
We cannot afford to be below average on the line much longer. Carr is regressing as a result of the poor line play. He is developing bad habits as a result of running for his life. McKinney is definitely a liability. I hope he is gone by the start of the 2006 season. I am not convinced that Wand will get much better either. Here are the areas we need to consider addressing this offseason:

1. NT - Payne is not the same player he was before the injury. It seems like the best 3-4 teams have dominant NT's. We really MUST have one to make this work.
2. Center - McKinney isn't getting it done. Replacing him may improve the play of the guards.
3. TE - We cannot count on Joppru to be healthy. Miller and Bruener are 1-dimensional. We need to give Carr better short options than just DD and occasionally Miller.
4. ILB - Foreman is great at making a tackle 5-10 yards downfield. He is just too slow.
5. LT - Wand is a project. If we have a shot at a better LT in this draft, do we pass it up? IMO it is the most important position on offense after QB.
6. WR - Bradford is probably gone. Do we have a speedster option (Starling?) other than AJ when he leaves?
7. RB - Are we sold on DD as our back? He has looked good the last 3 weeks but where was he during the rest of the season? Hollings is looking like a bust (although the verdict isn't in quite yet). Wells is nothing but a solid backup.
 
TheOgre said:
We cannot afford to be below average on the line much longer. Carr is regressing as a result of the poor line play. He is developing bad habits as a result of running for his life. McKinney is definitely a liability. I hope he is gone by the start of the 2006 season. I am not convinced that Wand will get much better either. Here are the areas we need to consider addressing this offseason:

1. NT - Payne is not the same player he was before the injury. It seems like the best 3-4 teams have dominant NT's. We really MUST have one to make this work.
2. Center - McKinney isn't getting it done. Replacing him may improve the play of the guards.
3. TE - We cannot count on Joppru to be healthy. Miller and Bruener are 1-dimensional. We need to give Carr better short options than just DD and occasionally Miller.
4. ILB - Foreman is great at making a tackle 5-10 yards downfield. He is just too slow.
5. LT - Wand is a project. If we have a shot at a better LT in this draft, do we pass it up? IMO it is the most important position on offense after QB.
6. WR - Bradford is probably gone. Do we have a speedster option (Starling?) other than AJ when he leaves?
7. RB - Are we sold on DD as our back? He has looked good the last 3 weeks but where was he during the rest of the season? Hollings is looking like a bust (although the verdict isn't in quite yet). Wells is nothing but a solid backup.
Click to expand...


Oh I don't know Ogre. Wand is obviously playing like the rookie which for all intents and purposes I still think of him as. He's in his second year but we all knew he had a big jump to make coming from "The University of Nowhere Important" to the NFL. He was lacking experience against quality defenses, strength, and coaching. He's getting those and I think he'll get better.

Carr is showing signs of regression because of this and I don't know what you do to stop that from happening. We're going to play the rest of this season with the line just like it is so he's got three more weeks of this kind of pass protection before a well deserved vacation. The best thing for Carr right now (though maybe it won't be the best thing for the win column) would be for the Texans to spend these three weeks focusing on the running game. It's started to come around a little bit lately. Davis needs to keep it up and the line needs as much work as they can get. We need to take as much of the load off of Carr as we can for now and hopefully come back next season improved.

On your points

1. I'm all for drafting someone to push Payne or spell him as necessary if a player fitting the bill is available when we pick. I think Payne will be back to his old self next season so I'm not worried so much about him as I am about what we do after he's gone. He won't last forever and all it would take would be one more real bad knee injury to put us back where we were in 2003. We need someone behind Payne who can do the job.

2. Yes to that one too. McKinney needs to at least have his eventual replacement waiting in the wings. I'd like to see the Texans find another center because I too think McKinney isn't getting the job done. If we need to draft one (and if there's one the Texans like) then he won't probably be ready to take over for McKinney until 2006 but that's fine. By then the guards on either side of him will be better. If we can aquire one through free agency then that's a quicker fix but more expensive. Either way though McKinney has to go.

3. Joppru has had one terrible career so far and the Texans need a real TE badly. Miller and Bruener are both good at what they do but niether one does it all. This is a tough call I think. Do the Texans spend a pick on another TE or do they wait and see if Joppru is going to be ready to get to work. 2 years is a lot of time to wait for your draft pick to get in a game. I bet the Texans give him another camp to see if he can do it. If he breaks down during the course of next season though (assuming he makes it out of camp without another problem) then I think they have to be prepared to move forward after that and find someone else.

4. ILB, yeah get me one of those in the draft. In reality Wong is the inside linebacker we need. We should be starting Babin, Sharper, Wong, and Peek right now and hopefully we will be spending a lot of time in that combination the rest of the season. Wong came here to play on the outside so he may not be happy inside but that's where he belongs and where the team needs him. If he doesn't want to adjust to that then it's time to find another ILB.

5. Wand is the LT. He needs to have Bruener over there every down to hold his hand but he needs to play if he's ever going to get past being a project. I don't think we need a LT right now for anything other than depth. If the Texans spend a first day pick on the o-line I want to see it be a center.

6. Bradford is probably gone I agree. It's possible he doesn't get the bites in free agency though and he could be back. There's an outside chance I think. If he isn't (and we should be thinking he won't be) then yeah Kendrick Starling is a 4.39 guy who could do what Bradford does. Fast enough? Yep. Inconsistent hands? Yep. Sounds like he can do everything Bradford does. Also we've got Sloan Thomas on our practice squad. Not as fast but he's available. I wouldn't have a problem with the Texans drafting another speed guy though in the upcoming draft.

7. Unless a guy the Texans like better falls into their laps I bet that Domanick Davis is going to be the starter when the 2005 season opens. Just you wait and see. He's going to get himself a hundred plus yards in the rest of our games this year, finish with a little past 1,100 yards and 11-12 touchdowns and that will be just enough to buy him another season up front. His poor performance this year will be attributed to the new blocking scheme and by the time the team goes to camp people will be talking about how he's going to get 1,500 or 1,600 yards in 2005.

Will he get it? Probably not but who knows. If he doesn't I don't think it's going to be because he isn't fast enough, big enough, or good enough at breaking tackles. DD's all of those things. It will be because he can't stay healthy long enough to do it and the Texans know this by now. They'll draft a back this year and maybe sign another free agent running back but they won't be handing the job to them. they'll be for insurance. Even if they do get to select a kick butt back he's going to have to beat out Davis for the job and that's not going to be real easy while Davis is healthy. He won't stay healthy long though and that will be their chance to grab the spot.
 
Vinny said:
Up and down game today. They were horrible at times and they had nice blocks at times. On balance it wasn't solid. I just don't understand why we have Wand on Freeney one-on-one so much.
Click to expand...


It's unbelievable! They have one playmaker on defense and we allow him the opportunity to make plays on every important 3rd down. I saw one chip- it was quite effective by the way... and I didn't see any double teams on passing plays. It was almost enough for me to start a "Fire Palmer" thread. I've been very supportive of him, but it's inconceivable that, in the 2nd meeting of the year against the Colts, we have so few packages that incorportate a double team on Dwight Freeney!!
 
It sounds like you agree with me on the weak areas but not necessarily on the remedies. There is no doubt that we likely won't fix all of these areas in one offseason. The bare minimum I think we need a center and a NT.
 
The Texans have had their share of bad luck on the o-line but with us playing some awful teams down the line, I think we may have three wins in a row. A bit worried about the Jacksonville game.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top