Offense........it is starting to click.

[texan279]

eh...I'm just talking about his passing. my opinion of Carr is at an all time low right now. I figured I'd see progress under Kubiak, but I just see the same ol' workout warrior....anyway....to each his own

Keep sippin' that koolaide

Not sipping any kool-aid, go back and read my posts from the past couple of days, I have said "Carr right now is average at best" and made several other not so great comments about him. Also go check the first two game threads and see what I said about him. I am not just going to give up on the guy after what about 4 or 5 quarters of preseason play? Especially after the first 4 seasons, and especially after a coaching change, change of offense, and several new guys starting on offense. Miracles don't happen overnight.

 

[santo]

You could take this several ways.

First, Kubiak could be deflecting the blame to himself to avoid a QB controversary.

Second, Kubiak has basically said the offense cannot handle the entire offense. Maybe he pushed them a little and they didn't stack up.

Kubiak is a smart guy and a good coach. I think you have to read between the lines a little on this one and he could be trying to avoid controversaries.

I don't think you can say Carr doesn't have any responsibility for the play of the offense in the first half.

[Qoute] on QB David Carr) “A lot of the things that happened early in the game were David’s fault. On the interception I think he tried to dump it to Wali Lundy. He (Carr) has to protect the ball. He is in charge of protecting the ball. I think we proved that we can be a pretty good team, without the turnovers.” [/quote]

http://houstontexans.com/news/detail.php?PRKey=2797&section=N%20Latest%20News


I agree with Hulk, Kubiak will tell it how it is.

on QB David Carr’s early struggles)

“As a coach you have to try to find someway to calm him down with some automatic completions. Those are hard to come by in this league. He did come back and make some very nice plays, but as a coach I need to figure out how to start the game and calm down.”

That is the real cool thing about Kubiak, is that he will admit when he did a mistake, but also will call out the players when they mess up.


Houston now has a real coach!!!

 

[Runner]

The last quote about "automatic completions" may explain the vanilla offense calls and more down field chances for Sage.

 

[HJam72]

Well, at this point we've already spent 4 years on Carr and you can call it five now because that's what it's going to be. My resolution is that we're just gonna have ta stick with him until he wins a Super Bowl.



Patience people, patience.

 

[hollywood_texan]

I think Carr and the offense have a lot to work on. The running game is good, but the passing looks enemic.

It seems to me that Kubiak wants to use more of the offense but is holding back a little. IMO, Kubiak is taking the blame for not getting them up to speed to the point he expects for his play calling. He pushed them a bit last night knowing it might not work. That is why is taking the blame in my opinion.

We'll see on Sept. 10. I think we know what to expect against the Eagles. An offense that will struggle early and a defense that will play good considering the circumstances.

 

[aj.]

Carr looked very good and was throwing the ball with accuracy and with smart possition of the football..

I've seen some homer takes but that one takes the cake. But it's understandable.

Until Carr can get out of this frantic and frenzied mental mode he's in, this offense will never be able to be run as designed and Carr won't be a legit NFL QB. Maybe a sedative before the game would help.

The rollout scramble/fumble was inexcusable. You have to take care of the ball better than that.

The point blank rocket he threw at (behind) Lundy and into traffic was totally uncalled for since he was under no pressure. That reminded me of the same stuff he was doing with DD over the middle on those laughable short screens years ago. He could have waited a second of two for Lundy to clear or even rolled right - there was no one there - but no....rocket that bad boy into traffic and see what happens. Can he not see further downfield than 15 yards?

There are things we are seeing that we shouldn't be seeing in Year 5 regardless of the previous regime/situation. It's the between the ears things that Kubiak and Calhoun now have to contend with.

Kubiak and Calhoun having to draw up 'special' plays at the beginning of the game just to get their 5 yr veteran quarterback comfortable means they are having to crutch the system and get away from the 15 scripted that they would rather run.

When I continue to hear this "continue to give him things to help him build his confidence" spoon feeding crap like what came out of Sterling Sharpe's mouth last night I want to put my foot through the tv. If our QB was Phillip Rivers or Alex Smith (or Jay Cutler) I could understand.

Jay Cutler looked more poised than Carr. (yes I know -- anyone would look poised on that offense, bur yes, Carr would look just as frantic against pressure - imagined or real - from second stringers).

The fact that we're even having these seemingly endless debates proves that all is not right...

 

[hollywood_texan]

[Qoute] on QB David Carr) “A lot of the things that happened early in the game were David’s fault. On the interception I think he tried to dump it to Wali Lundy. He (Carr) has to protect the ball. He is in charge of protecting the ball. I think we proved that we can be a pretty good team, without the turnovers.”

http://houstontexans.com/news/detail.php?PRKey=2797&section=N%20Latest%20News


I agree with Hulk, Kubiak will tell it how it is.



[/SIZE]


That is the real cool thing about Kubiak, is that he will admit when he did a mistake, but also will call out the players when they mess up.


Houston now has a real coach!!!





[/QUOTE]

Yep, but my remarks were in reference directly to Kubiak's comment at half time and that it was his fault for the offense's poor play due to play calling.

You really proved my point. He was taking the blame there himself.

 

[real]

I think Carr and the offense have a lot to work on. The running game is good, but the passing looks enemic.

It seems to me that Kubiak wants to use more of the offense but is holding back a little. IMO, Kubiak is taking the blame for not getting them up to speed to the point he expects for his play calling. He pushed them a bit last night knowing it might not work. That is why is taking the blame in my opinion.

We'll see on Sept. 10. I think we know what to expect against the Eagles. An offense that will struggle early and a defense that will play good considering the circumstances.

i don't think thats entirely true...In pre-season most teams aren't going to show you their whole hand...most keep it pretty vanilla...And IMO, Kubaik taking "the blame" was just the diplomatic thing to do...

 

[tsip]

2nd Qtr
1-10-HOU47 (2:07) D.Carr pass short middle to A.Johnson to DEN 47 for 6 yards (Da.Williams).
2-8-DEN40 (1:22) D.Carr pass incomplete deep left to E.Moulds.
3-8-DEN40 (1:13) D.Carr pass short middle to K.Walter to DEN 35 for 5 yards (DJ.Williams).
4-3-DEN35 (1:01) D.Carr pass short middle to A.Johnson to DEN 30 for 5 yards (Da.Williams, I.Gold).

3rd Qtr--still 1st team D
1-10-HOU20 (15:00) D.Carr pass short right to A.Johnson ran ob at HST 34 for 14 yards.
2-6-DEN47 (12:48) D.Carr pass incomplete short right to E.Moulds.
3-6-DEN47 (12:41) D.Carr pass incomplete deep left to A.Johnson (Da.Williams).

...wow, 7 passes for 30 yds...maybe it is the distance that gets people confused, thinking that 4 ypa must surely be to an rb or te--or maybe the intent is to get it to the wr so he can get yac

 

[Runner]

I think Carr and the offense have a lot to work on. The running game is good, but the passing looks enemic.

Nice Freudian slip.

Did you mean:
anemic: lacking power, vigor, vitality, or colorfulness; listless; weak: an anemic effort; anemic tones.

or are you coining a new word from the root word enema?

I'd believe either.

 

[hollywood_texan]

Nice Freudian slip.

Did you mean:
anemic: lacking power, vigor, vitality, or colorfulness; listless; weak: an anemic effort; anemic tones.

or are you coining a new word from the root word enema?

I'd believe either.

I wish I could take credit for that one. I just screwed up and used the wrong word, actually the right word, but not by design.

Sometimes do you something hilarious and you don't even know it. This is one of those times for me.

Thanks for pointing it out.

 

[eriadoc]

I posted a short write-up on the passing plays in the Rams game, as it pertained to Carr's decision-making in that game. I haven't had a chance to go back over the Tivo from this game, but my initial impression is that Carr was definitely worse than last week in the first quarter than at any point last week, yet better in the second quarter than at any point last week. It's very frustrating. If we see more of the second quarter version of Carr (and offensive gameplan), wherein the team takes chances downfield and throws to someone besides a running back, then I'll be happy, within reason. If we keep doing the little dump-offs, I don't think anyone will be happy with Carr.

Someone else posted this, and I agree with it, on short thought - it's not the decisions that Carr makes, it's the ones he doesn't make. Trust your WRs more, even if they have dropped a ton of balls before, or not gotten open. Trust your line more, even if they have let rushers through like water through a sieve. It's easier said than done, but if he doesn't show signs of improving in those areas, we need to draft a QB in 2007.

Vinny was kind enough to add his comments to my write-up last week, noting the 3rd down play-by-play. Yet he chose to ignore the specifics of each play. As stated, you can't take stats at face value and there is more to each of those plays than just "Carr failed again on 3rd down". I think that is what people are trying to point out. It seems as if you're letting your distaste for Carr affect your objectivity. Just my 2c.

 

[Vinny]

Vinny was kind enough to add his comments to my write-up last week, noting the 3rd down play-by-play. Yet he chose to ignore the specifics of each play. As stated, you can't take stats at face value and there is more to each of those plays than just "Carr failed again on 3rd down". I think that is what people are trying to point out. It seems as if you're letting your distaste for Carr affect your objectivity. Just my 2c.

So you don't think that a total inability to convert on 3rd downs via the pass isn't any sort of a trend with your QB? Carr struggled on 3rd down in his previous years here too. My distaste for Carr only stems from his play...his play is the only thing I question.

 

[eriadoc]

So you don't think that a total inability to convert on 3rd downs via the pass isn't any sort of a trend with your QB? Carr struggled on 3rd down in his previous years here too.

I believe the offense has had a hard time converting 3rd downs. I am trying to determine how much of that is Carr. I am in no way suggesting Carr gets a pass, and I was bipolar about his play last night, but I am trying to be somewhat objective about it at this point. Given the framework of "He's our QB and that's not changing until 2007 at earliest", it's all I can do.

Looking inside the stats is one way for me to try and figure it out. Other people use different methods, I'm sure.

 

[eriadoc]

My distaste for Carr only stems from his play...his play is the only thing I question.

I have stated so before, but I'll reiterate - I don't intend to imply otherwise. All my comments are strictly football-related.

 

[Vinny]

I have stated so before, but I'll reiterate - I don't intend to imply otherwise. All my comments are strictly football-related.

I probably misunderstood this comment then...

It seems as if you're letting your distaste for Carr affect your objectivity. Just my 2c.

 

[michaelm]

There have been many good points made by both sides of the Carr debate.

One observation I'd like to make is that the Denver defense is the best that we've seen this preseason. In my opinion, it is better than the KC and St. Louis defenses by a good margin, although the Ram blitzes did give us fits.

Check back later in the year after we've had a chance to see them in action for awhile, but I think Denver's defense is better than last year's and will be one of the top Ds in the league this year.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

I believe the offense has had a hard time converting 3rd downs. I am trying to determine how much of that is Carr. I am in no way suggesting Carr gets a pass, and I was bipolar about his play last night, but I am trying to be somewhat objective about it at this point. Given the framework of "He's our QB and that's not changing until 2007 at earliest", it's all I can do.

Looking inside the stats is one way for me to try and figure it out. Other people use different methods, I'm sure.

It is just not the stats, which show trending and their consequent red flags are all over the place. But we all are observing similar play on the field. Where is Carr 2.0? What is the significant change in his style of play, his leadership, etc?

What makes you believe that Carr is better than before or will be better, given the stats and your observations. And please make it something that Carr has done or is doing. He is a big boy and should no longer need more help from a staff, O Line and playmakers.

 

[the wonger need food]

Kubiak himself acctually took the blame.

Just when you thought you had seen every excuse possible for Carr.

You Carr apologists are hilarious. Does he have photos of you guys or something?

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

I've seen some homer takes but that one takes the cake. But it's understandable.

Until Carr can get out of this frantic and frenzied mental mode he's in, this offense will never be able to be run as designed and Carr won't be a legit NFL QB. Maybe a sedative before the game would help.

The rollout scramble/fumble was inexcusable. You have to take care of the ball better than that.

The point blank rocket he threw at (behind) Lundy and into traffic was totally uncalled for since he was under no pressure. That reminded me of the same stuff he was doing with DD over the middle on those laughable short screens years ago. He could have waited a second of two for Lundy to clear or even rolled right - there was no one there - but no....rocket that bad boy into traffic and see what happens. Can he not see further downfield than 15 yards?

There are things we are seeing that we shouldn't be seeing in Year 5 regardless of the previous regime/situation. It's the between the ears things that Kubiak and Calhoun now have to contend with.

Kubiak and Calhoun having to draw up 'special' plays at the beginning of the game just to get their 5 yr veteran quarterback comfortable means they are having to crutch the system and get away from the 15 scripted that they would rather run.

When I continue to hear this "continue to give him things to help him build his confidence" spoon feeding crap like what came out of Sterling Sharpe's mouth last night I want to put my foot through the tv. If our QB was Phillip Rivers or Alex Smith (or Jay Cutler) I could understand.

Jay Cutler looked more poised than Carr. (yes I know -- anyone would look poised on that offense, bur yes, Carr would look just as frantic against pressure - imagined or real - from second stringers).

The fact that we're even having these seemingly endless debates proves that all is not right...

Kub is basically saying the same thing in a "diplomatic" and more veiled approach..........you can feel that he too is beginning to get frustrated with the same ole, same ole.

(on QB David Carr) “A lot of the things that happened early in the game were David’s fault. On the interception I think he tried to dump it to Wali Lundy. He (Carr) has to protect the ball. He is in charge of protecting the ball. I think we proved that we can be a pretty good team, without the turnovers.”

(on QB David Carr’s early struggles) “As a coach you have to try to find someway to calm him down with some automatic completions. Those are hard to come by in this league. He did come back and make some very nice plays, but as a coach I need to figure out how to start the game and calm down.”

 

[Hulk75]

I've seen some homer takes but that one takes the cake. But it's understandable.

Until Carr can get out of this frantic and frenzied mental mode he's in, this offense will never be able to be run as designed and Carr won't be a legit NFL QB. Maybe a sedative before the game would help.

The rollout scramble/fumble was inexcusable. You have to take care of the ball better than that.

The point blank rocket he threw at (behind) Lundy and into traffic was totally uncalled for since he was under no pressure. That reminded me of the same stuff he was doing with DD over the middle on those laughable short screens years ago. He could have waited a second of two for Lundy to clear or even rolled right - there was no one there - but no....rocket that bad boy into traffic and see what happens. Can he not see further downfield than 15 yards?

There are things we are seeing that we shouldn't be seeing in Year 5 regardless of the previous regime/situation. It's the between the ears things that Kubiak and Calhoun now have to contend with.

Kubiak and Calhoun having to draw up 'special' plays at the beginning of the game just to get their 5 yr veteran quarterback comfortable means they are having to crutch the system and get away from the 15 scripted that they would rather run.

When I continue to hear this "continue to give him things to help him build his confidence" spoon feeding crap like what came out of Sterling Sharpe's mouth last night I want to put my foot through the tv. If our QB was Phillip Rivers or Alex Smith (or Jay Cutler) I could understand.

Jay Cutler looked more poised than Carr. (yes I know -- anyone would look poised on that offense, bur yes, Carr would look just as frantic against pressure - imagined or real - from second stringers).

The fact that we're even having these seemingly endless debates proves that all is not right...

Okay you covered 2 bad plays................now how about the 15 he completed.
You guys are funny and crafty.

 

[real]

Okay you covered 2 bad plays................now how about the 15 he completed.
You guys are funny and crafty.

He gets payed to play well...that is expected of him...So why would anyone make a fuss over a couple completions?

 

[Hulk75]

Just when you thought you had seen every excuse possible for Carr.

You Carr apologists are hilarious. Does he have photos of you guys or something?

And your a hater, listen to the lady and what she says that Kubiak said, about the 1st half..

 

[aj.]

Okay you covered 2 bad plays................now how about the 15 he completed.
.

...or maybe the other plays that might have been, that we'll never know about?

Crafty? That would mean I have an agenda against Carr, which I don't. I want him to do well because if he does, we do well. It doesn't take an Einstein to see he's not comfortable most of the time he drops back to pass, nor does he see the entire field. The game is still too fast for him and may always be. Love him or hate him, when your QB is as nervous as a cat, the whole offense suffers.

 

[the wonger need food]

And your a hater, listen to the lady and what she says that Kubiak said, about the 1st half..

No, I'm a realist. Carr's performance last night would be laughable if it wasn't so sad. I'm really starting to feel sorry for the guy. 5 years in the league and he still can't do the simplest things...

 

[thunderkyss]

There have been many good points made by both sides of the Carr debate.

One observation I'd like to make is that the Denver defense is the best that we've seen this preseason. In my opinion, it is better than the KC and St. Louis defenses by a good margin, although the Ram blitzes did give us fits.

Check back later in the year after we've had a chance to see them in action for awhile, but I think Denver's defense is better than last year's and will be one of the top Ds in the league this year.

ON top of that.. what we saw last night, and the two games prior, are exactly what we were supposed to see.

David Carr struggling.

Remember how many times we've said..... well I can't blam this on him, because I don't know what the other guy was supposed to do........

Well, that's were Kubiak was until now. He's got some good film, David against the exotic StL blitzes, and against the no-nonsense DenverBronco's D. He knows exactly who was where, and what was what, & where the ball was supposed to go, and more importantly, he knows why things didn't go as planned.

Baby steps......... we'll get there.

 

[Yankee_In_TX]

Kubiak and Calhoun having to draw up 'special' plays at the beginning of the game just to get their 5 yr veteran quarterback comfortable means they are having to crutch the system and get away from the 15 scripted that they would rather run.

Rumor has it Kubes used to take responsibility for players' mistakes back in Denver. Good or bad, that's how he works.

However, IMO, I agree. You don't toss the playbook out the window because your 5th year QB is a cat in a dog fight and sit around and keep preaching "He's the one."

 

[Porky]

What was wrong with how he played?

Umm, he sucked? Is that close enough for you.

 

[Hulk75]

...or maybe the other plays that might have been, that we'll never know about?

Crafty? That would mean I have an agenda against Carr, which I don't. I want him to do well because if he does, we do well. It doesn't take an Einstein to see he's not comfortable most of the time he drops back to pass, nor does he see the entire field. The game is still too fast for him and may always be. Love him or hate him, when your QB is as nervous as a cat, the whole offense suffers.

Suffers? A couple series off not doing well is Sufering? Like it or not the guy is still learning the Offense, scared as a cat? Looked pretty calm to me on his deep ball, the 4th dn conversion, all of his rollouts and the one were Champ was blitzing stood there and got the ball off for a completion.

Is he perfect no, does he have stuff to work on sure, he is learning. BUT is he as bad as some of you THINK, No, not at all.

Give him some props, throw him a bone every now and again. People want to talk about 2 plays when he took these guys on drive that came out in points against a very tough Defense.
Okay so other then 1 play he said.............

I think we proved that we can be a pretty good team, without the turnovers.”

 

[Hulk75]

Umm, he sucked? Is that close enough for you.

Bet I can show you more possative plays then negative plays. Thanks for the insight and knowledge by the way.

 

[GP]

All the RB dump passes ( I was angry at first) were IMO Kubiak's way to look at how the defense is reacting to those. It clearly looked like David was directed to look at only the RB on those plays. You would have seen a SCREAMING Kubiak on the sideline if David had dumped it to the RB on his own all those plays. Kubiak isn't afraid to show his displeasure durig a game, especially with his QBs.

And, IMO, we were also trying to lure the defenders up so we could push some deeper routes later on (which we did, by the way).

Was it a "fun" game to watch? Nope. Did we do a better job against a team that was one win from a trip to the Super Bowl last season? I think so. Last year's preseaosn game against Denver was an absolute JOKE.

Nobody got seriously hurt. We're heading into the last game with our current starters and our entire defensive line and LB rotation healthy.

Be happy.

 

[Porky]

Bet I can show you more possative plays then negative plays. Thanks for the insight and knowledge by the way.

What, a 3 yard dumpoff to the RB? Your right, that takes a #1 overall and an 8 million dollar extension for someone talented enough to do that.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

All the RB dump passes ( I was angry at first) were IMO Kubiak's way to look at how the defense is reacting to those. It clearly looked like David was directed to look at only the RB on those plays. You would have seen a SCREAMING Kubiak on the sideline if David had dumped it to the RB on his own all those plays. Kubiak isn't afraid to show his displeasure durig a game, especially with his QBs.

You probably know my standard response to this logic, but.... Why are we paying 8 mill per for a stooge?

It's like he is Derek Zoolander and Pendry or Calhoun are saying into his helmet, "you must destroy the Houston Texans' fans natural love for the game. Throw a dump off at 90 mph."

 

[GP]

You probably know my standard response to this logic, but.... Why are we paying 8 mill per for a stooge?

It's like he is Derek Zoolander and Pendry or Calhoun are saying into his helmet, "you must destroy the Houston Texans' fans natural love for the game. Throw a dump off at 90 mph."

One question: Would Kubiak be visibly upset if Carr had not gone through progressions, throwing the ball to the RB over and over as he did?

I don't think that one's on Carr. And I don't buy the theory that Kubiak has put training wheels on his system for Carr.

Come on, guys. Get past the flame war that's going on in this thread.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

One question: Would Kubiak be visibly upset if Carr had not gone through progressions, throwing the ball to the RB over and over as he did?

I don't think that one's on Carr. And I don't buy the theory that Kubiak has put training wheels on his system for Carr.

Come on, guys. Get past the flame war that's going on in this thread.

There is so much plausible innuendo being thrown around here, but come on man. Kubiak has plenty of tape on Carr rolling out and throwing dump off passes, we know he can do that well in the 2nd and 3rd quarters very well. When will we see something that is different? That is what has us most concerened. I thought I would see a much different Carr after the third game. I see other players and units getting better, but not at the QB position. Once again I am measuring Carr against Carr.

 

[SESupergenius]

Vinny had me looking for the 3rd down conversion more closely this game, and really I came away thinking we did a decent job, not great, but not horrible. Carr does need to get better at the 3rd down coversions, but I felt he was starting to this game. The way I see it, Carr had a 3-7 3rd down coversion ( count the 4th down conversion as a 3rd down conversion because we are basically measuring his ability to convert for more downs, and don't coun't the spiked ball to go against him because that is what the coaches wanted.)
So he was 43% on conversions last night, which is above average in QB conversion for the 2005 season.

3-4-50 (6:44) D.Carr sacked at 50 for 0 yards (K.Lang). FUMBLES (K.Lang), touched at DEN 48, ball out of bounds at HST 44.

3-4-HOU48 (3:22) D.Carr sacked at HST 41 for -7 yards (E.Ekuban).

3-2-HOU28 (3:17) D.Carr pass short right to J.Cook to HST 35 for 7 yards (DJ.Williams).

3-8-DEN40 (1:13) D.Carr pass short middle to K.Walter to DEN 35 for 5 yards (DJ.Williams).

4-3-DEN35 (1:01) D.Carr pass short middle to A.Johnson to DEN 30 for 5 yards (Da.Williams, I.Gold).

3-5-DEN11 (:12) D.Carr spiked the ball to stop the clock.

3-6-DEN47 (12:41) D.Carr pass incomplete deep left to A.Johnson (Da.Williams).

3-6-DEN29 (10:16) D.Carr pass to E.Moulds to DEN 18 for 11 yards (C.Cox; K.Paymah).


I think Sage was 1-3 on 3rd down conversions, but did get the long TD pass.

 

[Hulk75]

You probably know my standard response to this logic, but.... Why are we paying 8 mill per for a stooge?

It's like he is Derek Zoolander and Pendry or Calhoun are saying into his helmet, "you must destroy the Houston Texans' fans natural love for the game. Throw a dump off at 90 mph."

Dump offs? Thats all he threw.


I am so freaking tired of all the absolutes that are thrown around here, always, only, all the time.

He had some nice passes to Moulds Dre Owen Walters, you guys ALWAYS do this.

A stooge? Okay,

 

[Hulk75]

Vinny had me looking for the 3rd down conversion more closely this game, and really I came away thinking we did a decent job, not great, but not horrible. Carr does need to get better at the 3rd down coversions, but I felt he was starting to this game. The way I see it, Carr had a 3-7 3rd down coversion ( count the 4th down conversion as a 3rd down conversion because we are basically measuring his ability to convert for more downs, and don't coun't the spiked ball to go against him because that is what the coaches wanted.)
So he was 43% on conversions last night, which is above average in QB conversion for the 2005 season.

3-4-50 (6:44) D.Carr sacked at 50 for 0 yards (K.Lang). FUMBLES (K.Lang), touched at DEN 48, ball out of bounds at HST 44.

3-4-HOU48 (3:22) D.Carr sacked at HST 41 for -7 yards (E.Ekuban).

3-2-HOU28 (3:17) D.Carr pass short right to J.Cook to HST 35 for 7 yards (DJ.Williams).

3-8-DEN40 (1:13) D.Carr pass short middle to K.Walter to DEN 35 for 5 yards (DJ.Williams).

4-3-DEN35 (1:01) D.Carr pass short middle to A.Johnson to DEN 30 for 5 yards (Da.Williams, I.Gold).

3-5-DEN11 (:12) D.Carr spiked the ball to stop the clock.

3-6-DEN47 (12:41) D.Carr pass incomplete deep left to A.Johnson (Da.Williams).

3-6-DEN29 (10:16) D.Carr pass to E.Moulds to DEN 18 for 11 yards (C.Cox; K.Paymah).


I think Sage was 1-3 on 3rd down conversions, but did get the long TD pass.

Yea he did, against slap 1 and slap 2 playing CB and Saftey.

 

[hollywood_texan]

Dump offs? Thats all he threw.


I am so freaking tired of all the absolutes that are thrown around here, always, only, all the time.

He had some nice passes to Moulds Dre Owen Walters, you guys ALWAYS do this.

A stooge? Okay,

Hulk, I think it is a vibe or feel that they are getting from the offense.

David did have a long thow that was incomplete last night. I believe it was too Moulds down the right sideline. Hence, Carr needs to get the ball downfield.

I think the point is, there is a real tendacy for Carr to do the dump off. Which is really their point.

Carr needs to make more throws downfield, even if they are incomplete. He needs to get defenses thinking he will go downfield at anytime. Right now, it seems like maybe one throw or so per half.

I see throwing downfield as like shots on goal in hockey. The more you have, the better chance of success. Not to mention in football, it opens up other parts of the game. One dimensional teams in the NFL usually get stuffed.

If Carr can get the ball downfield successfully (even incompletions but shows it can get done), then it will make other parts of the offense more productive becuase there isn't one thing a defense can key on.

Right now, I don't think there is one defensive coordinator in the league that is concerned about David Carr lighting them up.

 

[rmartin65]

Its too bad the starters wont play much next week. The offense looked pretty good near the end of the second, and into the 3rd. Carr looked just as good as Sage did against second teamers, and started to pick it up against the starters. The RB's are really good. Morency and Lundy are both good backs.

 

[kbourda]

Umm, he sucked? Is that close enough for you.

I have been laughing on this one for about 20 minutes!

Seriously people, this is the pre-season. I would much perfer Carr to do this now than in the season when it matters. In Carr's defense, Mc Nabb does the same thing (throw to his RB's alot) and so does Brady. That is just what the WCO brings. He is showing inconsistency and has not shown a solid game to this point (including last night) in the pre-season. I hope that will change. One more thing, Hulk when I say this I think I speak for a bunch of people on this board, Get Off Of Carr's ****, please! I don't even think you could get Carr's parents to say he had a good game last night. Stop. Just Stop! Let's all hope for the very best for the Texans, ok.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

I have been laughing on this one for about 20 minutes!

Seriously people, this is the pre-season. I would much perfer Carr to do this now than in the season when it matters. In Carr's defense, Mc Nabb does the same thing (throw to his RB's alot) and so does Brady. That is just what the WCO brings. He is showing inconsistency and has not shown a solid game to this point (including last night) in the pre-season. I hope that will change. One more thing, Hulk when I say this I think I speak for a bunch of people on this board, Get Off Of Carr's ****, please! I don't even think you could get Carr's parents to say he had a good game last night. Stop. Just Stop! Let's all hope for the very best for the Texans, ok.

I think what many are missing here is that everyone is in agreement about the team doing incredibly better. But once something like success appears it tastes so good when it hits the lips and we expect it to be mirrored everywhere. If Kubiak came out said it will take DC one year to understand my system and we may have some trouble offensively then I buy into the let Carr go out and do that voo-doo that he supposedly does so well. But in the interim I am under the expectations that we are trying to win 16 games and that will not happen more than 6 times with Carr somewhere in, around and under the pocket.

 

[thunderkyss]

I think what many are missing here is that everyone is in agreement about the team doing incredibly better. But once something like success appears it tastes so good when it hits the lips and we expect it to be mirrored everywhere. If Kubiak came out said it will take DC one year to understand my system and we may have some trouble offensively then I buy into the let Carr go out and do that voo-doo that he supposedly does so well. But in the interim I am under the expectations that we are trying to win 16 games and that will not happen more than 6 times with Carr somewhere in, around and under the pocket.

Doesn't help that Cutler & Sage appear to be catching on quickly either.

 

[kbourda]

I think what many are missing here is that everyone is in agreement about the team doing incredibly better. But once something like success appears it tastes so good when it hits the lips and we expect it to be mirrored everywhere. If Kubiak came out said it will take DC one year to understand my system and we may have some trouble offensively then I buy into the let Carr go out and do that voo-doo that he supposedly does so well. But in the interim I am under the expectations that we are trying to win 16 games and that will not happen more than 6 times with Carr somewhere in, around and under the pocket.

To me, I know enough about this offense to know he won't pick it up in one year. No way. Behind the scenes Coach Kubes knows this is a year maybe a year and a half thing to pick up. He's seen a few QB's in his day to know that. It might be time to lower the expectations for the QB and hope we play more games like the first two wins (where we won despite of the QB play) than last night.

 

[kbourda]

Doesn't help that Cutler & Sage appear to be catching on quickly either.

I'm trying to make everyone see a bright side in all of this ok. You're not helping. *s*

 

[Smash_Mouth_Mario]

Carr does best when he has no pass-rush pressure (as do most QBs). He's actually very good. It's when he runs around trying to make the long pass that he gets in trouble. Also, he seems to do better when he uses his TE and/or short passes to the WR. His longer passes seem to make him nervous.

 

[tsip]

There have been many good points made by both sides of the Carr debate.

One observation I'd like to make is that the Denver defense is the best that we've seen this preseason. In my opinion, it is better than the KC and St. Louis defenses by a good margin, although the Ram blitzes did give us fits.

Check back later in the year after we've had a chance to see them in action for awhile, but I think Denver's defense is better than last year's and will be one of the top Ds in the league this year.

Do you remember last year when so many of the posters were 'raving' about the Bills defense and how 'great' it was? True, that defense was 'great' against us (almost everyone else,too) but no body else, costing their 'play-off' coach his job.

IMO, we need to start holding players (every player) accountable for their play on the field, so we can get rid of this 'roll-over' effect we have 'wait,gel,time,etc.'

 

[GP]

There is so much plausible innuendo being thrown around here, but come on man. Kubiak has plenty of tape on Carr rolling out and throwing dump off passes, we know he can do that well in the 2nd and 3rd quarters very well. When will we see something that is different? That is what has us most concerened. I thought I would see a much different Carr after the third game. I see other players and units getting better, but not at the QB position. Once again I am measuring Carr against Carr.

It's not to see if DAVID can do it...it's to see what effect it has/had on the opposing defense. It MIGHT be (hold on to something, ok?) to see if Lundy can catch the ball consistently. After all, he coughed one up in the game...and he has been knocked for fumbling it earlier in camp.

Why is it that we are focused on EVERYTHING being geared toward "helping David," or "Getting David up to speed"? Could it be, and I know this is a real stretch for some of you, could it be that we designed multiple throws to the RB to evaluate the RB, or to evaluate the effect it had on the defense, to see if it would open up stuff downfield.

But nope, it's always got SOMETHING to do with David, doesn't it?

You'd think this team is just David Carr. What about Alfred Malone costing us the game by lining up over center? What about Chad Stanley shanking a punt that went 33 yards? What about all the other things that the other players ARE or ARE NOT doing that they "ought to be" or "should not be" doing? Every game there are players who make bad plays, and players who make good plays. Honestly, preseason does stink because it's not really a "full game" where we go from start to finish with the starters to see how it would really end up at the final tick of the clock. We played hard. We got away without injuries. And we lost by three points to a Broncos team that was a win away from the SUper Bowl last season...and added Javon Walker (and has arguably the best LB crew in the AFC).

It's as if we're judging this whole team, or at least the offense, on David Carr. There's 10 other guys on every snap that must also be performing excellently. As in: Moulds actually SPRINTING to the deep pass instead of jogging. And if that's his "high gear," then we're in trouble. As in: Daniels false starting and blowing us a shorter 4th down conversion attempt. Had we made the first, could we have gone on to score a TD? We'll never know.

Be happy.

 

[Second Honeymoon]

If you can't see a trend in never converting a first down from a 3rd down (or perhaps once in 3 games)...I can't help you. You make all the excuses you want to make yourself comfy...but I'll keep pointing out that your offense goes to the sidelines when you can't convert a 3rd down.

Your preaching to the choir, Carr has been embarassing...as for your boy Ryans, he is looking like a future Pro Bowlers for sure.

doug from the woodlands

 

[Second Honeymoon]

What was wrong with how he played?

Umm, I dont know, maybe the fact that he played poorly and has been all preseason, just like last year. But I guess we will hear the same lame excuses you homers gave last year. 'It's just preseason, wah wah wah'. Admit that he sucks one day, its all I ask, because anyone who has seen football knows he is not a good NFL quarterback, he is a workout warrior and a flatliner when it comes to football IQ and acumen

doug ftw