now that we have flanagan...(no need to draft a center?)

[Kaiser Toro]

Did we not sign Anthony Weaver?

Did we not offer a contract to Sam Cowart?

Did we not change the defense to fit our players better?


We have addressed the defense. We are going to continue to add players through the draft and FA and it will get better. This reminds me of the talk before of how we have to draft D'Brick with the #1 overall pick because we have a terrible line. There are 7 rounds in the draft and we have 4 of the first 66 picks. If we are so desperate for a DE (which we aren't anymore after Weaver), we can might be able to get Mathias Kiwanuka or Tamba Hali in the 2nd round. Or we can take Darryl Tapp in the third. Maybe we can take Mario's counterpart Manny Lawson? If we need a DB we can go after Antonio Cromartie or Jonathan Joseph or Darnell Bing. How about D'Qwell Jackson? He could fill our MLB hole.

You know our current needs and you stated very good prospects, but this is simple forecasting. If we go Bush and no other needs are addressed via FA you have heavily invested in the offense until 2008 with no chance of signing any top Defensive FA's and hope that our defensive unit grows organically. A ~20 million dollar delta is huge, not just for next year, but possibly for the next three years with DC, AJ and a prospective Bush all signed through 2008.

In any business you cannot be that weighted from an investment standpoint in one of your two lines of business, as you will stymie incremental growth.

 

[el toro]

Did we not sign Anthony Weaver?

Did we not offer a contract to Sam Cowart?

Did we not change the defense to fit our players better?


We have addressed the defense. We are going to continue to add players through the draft and FA and it will get better. This reminds me of the talk before of how we have to draft D'Brick with the #1 overall pick because we have a terrible line. There are 7 rounds in the draft and we have 4 of the first 66 picks. If we are so desperate for a DE (which we aren't anymore after Weaver), we can might be able to get Mathias Kiwanuka or Tamba Hali in the 2nd round. Or we can take Darryl Tapp in the third. Maybe we can take Mario's counterpart Manny Lawson? If we need a DB we can go after Antonio Cromartie or Jonathan Joseph or Darnell Bing. How about D'Qwell Jackson? He could fill our MLB hole.

Exactly. Now with the Flanagan signing and with Bush at #1 the rest of the draft can be used to address the D. Then you have '07 when you can also use that draft to address the D.

 

[TexanAddict]

If we are so desperate for a DE (which we aren't anymore after Weaver), we can might be able to get Mathias Kiwanuka or Tamba Hali in the 2nd round. Or we can take Darryl Tapp in the third. Maybe we can take Mario's counterpart Manny Lawson? If we need a DB we can go after Antonio Cromartie or Jonathan Joseph or Darnell Bing. How about D'Qwell Jackson? He could fill our MLB hole.

This all sounds possible and OK, except for Darnell Bing. Bing would ost likely translate as a SS in the NFL, a position we already have adequate players at without addressing the more pressing need of a FS. I would also add Ray Edwards and Victor Adeyanju as DEs that should be available on day 2.

 

[infantrycak]

You know our current needs and you stated very good prospects, but this is simple forecasting. If we go Bush and no other needs are addressed via FA you have heavily invested in the offense until 2008 with no chance of signing any top Defensive FA's and hope that our defensive unit grows organically. A ~20 million dollar delta is huge, not just for next year, but possibly for the next three years with DC, AJ and a prospective Bush all signed through 2008.

In any business you cannot be that weighted from an investment standpoint in one of your two lines of business, as you will stymie incremental growth.

Totally understand where you are coming from, BUT I don't think your conclusion is absolute. I'd bet the Colts are even more weighted to the O over the D. No they haven't won the SB but they have been in the hunt for years now.

 

[tulexan]

Who said that you have to have an unbelievable defense? I believe with our current additions, current scheme change, most importantly our coaching change, and our draft picks, we can be a middle of the pack defense.

If you have a middle of the pack defense and an all world offense you can be very successful. The Seahawks were tied for the 16th best defense this year. Denver had the 15th best defense. Cincinnati had the 28th best defense. New England had the 26th best defense.

On offense. Seattle had the 2nd best, Indy had the 3rd best, Denver had the 5th best, Cincy had the 6th best, New England had the 7th best.

Now I know that there were top ranked defenses were in the playoffs and there were also bad offenses in the playoffs. But the idea that you have to have a great defense is wrong.

 

[el toro]

Who said that you have to have an unbelievable defense? I believe with our current additions, current scheme change, most importantly our coaching change, and our draft picks, we can be a middle of the pack defense.

If you have a middle of the pack defense and an all world offense you can be very successful. The Seahawks were tied for the 16th best defense this year. Denver had the 15th best defense. Cincinnati had the 28th best defense. New England had the 26th best defense.

On offense. Seattle had the 2nd best, Indy had the 3rd best, Denver had the 5th best, Cincy had the 6th best, New England had the 7th best.

Now I know that there were top ranked defenses were in the playoffs and there were also bad offenses in the playoffs. But the idea that you have to have a great defense is wrong.

Yep. Having an offense that can chew up yards and the clock while putting points on the board is quite conducive to winning. The team has not ignored the D in free agency and I suspect they will not in this draft. Going with Bush, given the moves thusfar in the offseason, gives you the best opportunity to have one side of the ball that is well above average. Why clip its wings to achieve cap equivalence?

 

[TheOgre]

I still think between now and the start of the season we MUST find a #2 WR and a starting MLB. We may even find stop-gap veterans for both positions then draft prospects for one or both. Other positions that should to be addressed this year or next are FS (sorry but CC Brown and Glenn Earl are NOT a dynamic duo), CB2, OT, and a DE prospect.

I would love to take Winston in the 2nd.

LT Pitts
LG McKinney
C Flanagan
RG Wiegert
RT Winston

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

Is finding a #2 WR the same as finding another weapon on offense ? If this is so then Bush is on paper the most lethal offensive weapon in the draft . This is not a great WR draft as far as depth at the top goes so you can't get a number 2 WR easily .

 

[beerlover]

seems universal on this board at least if Winston is available #33 the Texans take him. however I hope the Texans don't want him so bad they feel the need to trade up to get him. if he falls to us fine, if not look at the bpa.

 

[threetoedpete]

They could still draft a lineman prospect at #33.

Agreed, but I think this signing puts Mangold in the luxuary catigory. I think there are enough RB's in the draft that someone will take a shot at Mangold
at the bottom of the first.

 

[threetoedpete]

Did we not sign Anthony Weaver?

Did we not offer a contract to Sam Cowart?

Did we not change the defense to fit our players better?


We have addressed the defense. We are going to continue to add players through the draft and FA and it will get better. This reminds me of the talk before of how we have to draft D'Brick with the #1 overall pick because we have a terrible line. There are 7 rounds in the draft and we have 4 of the first 66 picks. If we are so desperate for a DE (which we aren't anymore after Weaver), we can might be able to get Mathias Kiwanuka or Tamba Hali in the 2nd round. Or we can take Darryl Tapp in the third. Maybe we can take Mario's counterpart Manny Lawson? If we need a DB we can go after Antonio Cromartie or Jonathan Joseph or Darnell Bing. How about D'Qwell Jackson? He could fill our MLB hole.

Like all of those choses except Bing. A corner at the top of the second wouldn't surprise me. Look at the two deep roster at RC. I shudder to think. Manny Lawson looks like a winner. Lot of good players at the top of the second. Maybe this year we'll hit 1. Personally, I'm hoping for one of the gaurds. Especailly if we get creative at the top of the draft. Be nice to have one player to hang our hats on. What MLB's do you like day two beerlover ? Leon Williams might make a switch ? Parnham @ the top of the second, but...I'd rather have the young right corner if we go defense.

 

[tulexan]

The guy I really want in the second is Cromartie. If he is available I think there is no way we can pass on him. If he stayed in school he would have been a top 10 pick next year.

A 6'2 CB that runs a sub 4.4 40? How can you pass on that?

 

[TexanAddict]

I hope the Texans don't want him so bad they feel the need to trade up to get him. if he falls to us fine, if not look at the bpa.

This is about the way I see it. If one of the top linemen is there you have to take him, but we have enough areas that require attention that a high quality player at one of those positions should be available and trading up should not be considered.

 

[threetoedpete]

The guy I really want in the second is Cromartie. If he is available I think there is no way we can pass on him. If he stayed in school he would have been a top 10 pick next year.

A 6'2 CB that runs a sub 4.4 40? How can you pass on that?

I think that's another universal. If he busts at corner, make a heck of FS.
Visa versa, start him at FS in camp and if P-burnt and Faggins bust, we're not in the hole so bad. If they go db, wouldn't be surprised. Day two Blackmon & Maxey ?

 

[el toro]

Because they just signed Weaver to a fat contract?

 

[el toro]

A yardage gaining, chain moving, clock eating and point scoring offense wins championships.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

Totally understand where you are coming from, BUT I don't think your conclusion is absolute.

It is not. It is a take based purely on the finances of the team which is just one of the acquisition/attrition levers that are most often skipped over in the world of fandom. Moreover, I am quite aware that there is other data out there that fans are not privy to such as how each bonus is prorated.

 

[tulexan]

In any business you cannot be that weighted from an investment standpoint in one of your two lines of business, as you will stymie incremental growth.

Actually, in business you take on a portfolio of investments that are weighted in such a way to maximize your revenue.

Most companies in all industries do not have equal budgets for each division.

If the philosophy of our team is not one of a balanced attack on both offense and defense, but rather one of a very strong offense and an average defense then it would make sense.

You make it sound like the Texans are the only team ever to have such a difference between the offense and defense on a salary standpoint. It is probably hard to find, but I'm sure that the Ravens defense in 2000 was making a lot more than the offense.

I would also imagine that since we are focusing so much on offense this season, that next season would be the defensive offseason to equal it out a bit.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

Actually, in business you take on a portfolio of investments that are weighted in such a way to maximize your revenue.

Most companies in all industries do not have equal budgets for each division.

If the philosophy of our team is not one of a balanced attack on both offense and defense, but rather one of a very strong offense and an average defense then it would make sense.

You make it sound like the Texans are the only team ever to have such a difference between the offense and defense on a salary standpoint. It is probably hard to find, but I'm sure that the Ravens defense in 2000 was making a lot more than the offense.

I would also imagine that since we are focusing so much on offense this season, that next season would be the defensive offseason to equal it out a bit.

I just use the biz terminology to help frame, it is not a failsafe comparision, but should illustrate my point.

I look at the Colts and I do not see how our defense is going to be able to help us twice a year. If VY or Leinart go to the Titans I do not see how our defense will help us. As Leftwich continues to improve we will need a better defense.

Our offense will do fine, as is, in my opinion against those defenses in our division. Defensively we could be behind the eight ball for a long time with an investment in Bush at #1.

 

[el toro]

Most firms are successful by doing one thing well. I'm not sure that's easy to translate to the NFL.

Perhaps the way would be that you have to excel on one side of the ball and be average on the other + special teams?

Since the Texans appear to be determined to build their strength on the offensive side, then the appropriate goal would be to develop a capable D. Someone posted the rankings of the offenses and defenses of playoff teams. Those rankings seemed to fit that analogy...great on offense and average on defense.

I think the team can reach average on D given the constraints.

 

[tulexan]

I just use the biz terminology to help frame, it is not a failsafe comparision, but should illustrate my point.

I look at the Colts and I do not see how our defense is going to be able to help us twice a year. If VY or Leinart go to the Titans I do not see how our defense will help us. As Leftwich continues to improve we will need a better defense.

Our offense will do fine, as is, in my opinion against those defenses in our division. Defensively we could be behind the eight ball for a long time with an investment in Bush at #1.

That's a good point, but don't you think some of the other teams could eventually say the same thing about us (assuming Bush lives up to the hype)?

 

[Kaiser Toro]

That's a good point, but don't you think some of the other teams could eventually say the same thing about us (assuming Bush lives up to the hype)?

Reciprocity would not be a bad thing. I know Bush is a great prospect, I am not blind. You will get no debate from me on what he can potentially offer our offense.

Good stuff today Tulexan and El Toro, thanks for playing.

 

[CITY CAT]

I really don't think the defense was that bad. I think they lost a lot of motivation with the departure of Glenn and Sharper, and they were put in bad situations. That I think killed their confidence.