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Not in tank mode just yet!

Mangler

All Pro
Trading Roby does not make me believe tank mode has been activated. Not even if Caserio traded Lonnie Johnson next.

What would convince me that we’re tanking would be trading Justin Reid for picks, Laremy Tunsil, Brandin Cooks, and or Zach Cunningham.

Not saying that Caserio won’t go into tank mode, as I’d be all for a full rebuild, but we ain’t there yet!
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
Trading Roby does not make me believe tank mode has been activated. Not even if Caserio traded Lonnie Johnson next.

What would convince me that we’re tanking would be trading Justin Reid for picks, Laremy Tunsil, Brandin Cooks, and or Zach Cunningham.

Not saying that Caserio won’t go into tank mode, as I’d be all for a full rebuild, but we ain’t there yet!
:toropalm:
 

TheRealJoker

Hall of Fame
The trade deadline will certainly be interesting that’s for sure.

The team will figure out who are the “bad seeds” in the locker room once the team encounters some adversity. Anybody can buy in to the vision of the team when they are 0-0. But when the team takes some losses and/or certain players don’t get as many touches or playing time as they feel they deserve… that’s when it gets harder to “be a good teammate”.
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
Trading Roby does not make me believe tank mode has been activated. Not even if Caserio traded Lonnie Johnson next.

What would convince me that we’re tanking would be trading Justin Reid for picks, Laremy Tunsil, Brandin Cooks, and or Zach Cunningham.

Not saying that Caserio won’t go into tank mode, as I’d be all for a full rebuild, but we ain’t there yet!
Caserio may be, debatedly, in a "tank" mode. But the coaching staff and players will be trying to win every game.
 

powda

I bought Watson a massage gun on Amazon prime day!
Isn't there a fine line here? I don't think they're naive enough to believe they're going to a superbowl this year. Does anyone? If they're making moves to help them after this season shouldn't we applaud that? Isn't that what we should expect?
 

Mangler

All Pro
Isn't there a fine line here? I don't think they're naive enough to believe they're going to a superbowl this year. Does anyone? If they're making moves to help them after this season shouldn't we applaud that? Isn't that what we should expect?
Quite a few posters here are completely against tanking. Yet, will bash the owners, and especially the GM that was handed a disaster of a team for not having a winning team. Either accept being a shite team or accept tanking for a year or two if that’s what it’ll take to finally trot out a young winning team!
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
The first games should give us an ideal or be a great indicator to how the remainder of the season unfolds. We the fans tends to think emotional or jump the gun before the trigger is pulled.

Even before this trade many were screaming TANK. Then when you hear your GM saying this season is only basically process driven. Fans will take that as he’s tanking
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I dont understand why fans aren't on board with the tank.

They were 4-12 with the POS.

What do y'all think they would be with the POS.

A rebuild was needed whether the POS was still here or not.
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
No fan should want to see their team tank. That’s literally a quitters mentality.
No fan should want to see their team go through a Cleveland Browns 2 decades of futility either.

Bill O’Brien destroyed this franchise. It has to be rebuilt. Drayton McClain destroyed the Astros. 3 years of 100 losses sucked ass, but it had to be rebuilt.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
No fan should want to see their team go through a Cleveland Browns 2 decades of futility either.

Bill O’Brien destroyed this franchise. It has to be rebuilt. Drayton McClain destroyed the Astros. 3 years of 100 losses sucked ass, but it had to be rebuilt.
Watson will be traded at some point for a king’s ransom. Therefore, you will get 2-3 first round picks, maybe a couple 2nd -3rd rounders as well. With those picks you can build from however this season unfolds. So technically you do not have to tank. If you have a successful season, you will be adding more talent to go along with that Speedy and Steel.
 

powda

I bought Watson a massage gun on Amazon prime day!
Watson will be traded at some point for a king’s ransom. Therefore, you will get 2-3 first round picks, maybe a couple 2nd -3rd rounders as well. With those picks you can build from however this season unfolds. So technically you do not have to tank. If you have a successful season, you will be adding more talent to go along with that Speedy and Steel.

We'll have opportunities. We had opportunities with an f ton of picks when we were an expansion team. Charley Casserly managed to sh*t the bed on that.

We have to nail those picks when we get them.
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
Watson will be traded at some point for a king’s ransom. Therefore, you will get 2-3 first round picks, maybe a couple 2nd -3rd rounders as well. With those picks you can build from however this season unfolds. So technically you do not have to tank. If you have a successful season, you will be adding more talent to go along with that Speedy and Steel.
They have a roster full of depth and special teamers. The tank is already happening. Yeah, hopefully they can get out of it quicker if they get a haul for Watson, but this season, they are not trying to win this year. They don't have the ******* talent to do so.

And I'm not talking about the players. The players are on the field doing everything they can to try to win. But management gave them a roster that's going to be hard for them to do so.
Players don't tank. Management does. The players didn't pay $7M to get rid of their best CB, management did.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
They have a roster full of depth and special teamers. The tank is already happening. Yeah, hopefully they can get out of it quicker if they get a haul for Watson, but this season, they are not trying to win this year. They don't have the ******* talent to do so.

And I'm not talking about the players. The players are on the field doing everything they can to try to win. But management gave them a roster that's going to be hard for them to do so.
Players don't tank. Management does. The players didn't pay $7M to get rid of their best CB, management did.
Someone on here said Roby was acting out of character. ( paraphrasing) if that’s the case maybe he forced his way out of here.

You might be spot on about the talent. But you can win without great talent. I watched the Eagles win the Super Bowl with a bunch of backup. Therefore you can win with the right scheme. Sometimes we have to let things play out. Question: what if we start off 4-1, do you still think management will thinking about tanking?
 

powda

I bought Watson a massage gun on Amazon prime day!
Someone on here said Roby was acting out of character. ( paraphrasing) if that’s the case maybe he forced his way out of here.

You might be spot on about the talent. But you can win without great talent. I watched the Eagles win the Super Bowl with a bunch of backup. Therefore you can win with the right scheme. Sometimes we have to let things play out. Question: what if we start off 4-1, do you still think management will thinking about tanking?
I don't think we're deliberately tanking. Fa's don't wanna be here and we had few draft picks. The end.

If we see some late 4th quarter shenanigans I might change my mind. Until then this is a stupid notion. (Not directed at you @Texansballer74 just the mindset.)
 
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76Texan

Hall of Fame
Someone on here said Roby was acting out of character. ( paraphrasing) if that’s the case maybe he forced his way out of here.

You might be spot on about the talent. But you can win without great talent. I watched the Eagles win the Super Bowl with a bunch of backup. Therefore you can win with the right scheme. Sometimes we have to let things play out. Question: what if we start off 4-1, do you still think management will thinking about tanking?
It's convenient how things leak when a player got traded.
Remember Hopkins?

Well, it's well documented that JJ Watt had certain heated moments with you know who.
He also proclaimed that "something must change", and then when OB got fired, he put out that tweet about "light" (I don't remember the exact words).

Players having disagreements with coaches is nothing uncommon.

Remember Brady and O'Brien?
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
I watched the Eagles win the Super Bowl with a bunch of backup.
You've said that before and it still doesn't make it true. The Eagles had 6 Pro Bowl players on that team, 5 if you don't count Wentz, and 2 All-Pros. They had Blount, Alshon Jeffery, Nelson Agholor, Darren Sproles, Chris Long, Patrick Robinson, along with the Pro Bowlers and All-Pros Zach Ertz, Lane Johnson, Jason Kelce, Brandon Brooks, Fletcher Cox and Malcolm Jenkins. Show me anybody on the Texans that can even come close to comparing to any of those guys. Brandin Cooks, Laremy Tunsil, that's it.

Yeah, the scheme might have been good, but it's only as good as the talent. Nick Foles was able to step right in because the team around him was good.

Question: what if we start off 4-1, do you still think management will thinking about tanking?
It doesn't matter now. They've already put the roster together. If they win they'll certainly take it. But the GM himself said this season wasn't about results, it's about process. You can take that and twist it all up however the **** you want to to make yourself feel better, but we all know what that means.
 

powda

I bought Watson a massage gun on Amazon prime day!
You've said that before and it still doesn't make it true. The Eagles had 6 Pro Bowl players on that team, 5 if you don't count Wentz, and 2 All-Pros. They had Blount, Alshon Jeffery, Nelson Agholor, Darren Sproles, Chris Long, Patrick Robinson, along with the Pro Bowlers and All-Pros Zach Ertz, Lane Johnson, Jason Kelce, Brandon Brooks, Fletcher Cox and Malcolm Jenkins. Show me anybody on the Texans that can even come close to comparing to any of those guys. Brandin Cooks, Laremy Tunsil, that's it.

Yeah, the scheme might have been good, but it's only as good as the talent. Nick Foles was able to step right in because the team around him was good.



It doesn't matter now. They've already put the roster together. If they win they'll certainly take it. But the GM himself said this season wasn't about results, it's about process. You can take that and twist it all up however the **** you want to to make yourself feel better, but we all know what that means.

No. What does it mean? Let's put this in black and white. Do you genuinely think before the first whistle is ever blown this team is trying to lose? Why? What great and amazing opportunities did we have this off-season that we passed on?

What would gm @Speedy have done to make us super bowl bound?
 

Mollywhopper

Facilitator
Staff member
No. What does it mean? Let's put this in black and white. Do you genuinely think before the first whistle is ever blown this team is trying to lose? Why? What great and amazing opportunities did we have this off-season that we passed on?

What would gm @Speedy have done to make us super bowl bound?
The players aren't trying to lose. That's not how tanking works in the NFL.

The front office is perfectly content with losing this year in order to start from scratch in terms of salary cap, draft capital, and shaking out the players that can/can't fit the system/culture moving forward. That is tanking in the NFL.
 

powda

I bought Watson a massage gun on Amazon prime day!
The players aren't trying to lose. That's not how tanking works in the NFL.

The front office is perfectly content with losing this year in order to start from scratch in terms of salary cap, draft capital, and shaking out the players that can/can't fit the system/culture moving forward. That is tanking in the NFL.
So what players would you have drafted and signed were you in charge?
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
You've said that before and it still doesn't make it true. The Eagles had 6 Pro Bowl players on that team, 5 if you don't count Wentz, and 2 All-Pros. They had Blount, Alshon Jeffery, Nelson Agholor, Darren Sproles, Chris Long, Patrick Robinson, along with the Pro Bowlers and All-Pros Zach Ertz, Lane Johnson, Jason Kelce, Brandon Brooks, Fletcher Cox and Malcolm Jenkins. Show me anybody on the Texans that can even come close to comparing to any of those guys. Brandin Cooks, Laremy Tunsil, that's it.

Yeah, the scheme might have been good, but it's only as good as the talent. Nick Foles was able to step right in because the team around him was good.



It doesn't matter now. They've already put the roster together. If they win they'll certainly take it. But the GM himself said this season wasn't about results, it's about process. You can take that and twist it all up however the **** you want to to make yourself feel better, but we all know what that means.

Got darn man why do a conversation with you always results into cursing and stuff. It’s if someone doesn’t agree you or you think they’re challenging your intelligence, you get mad and crap.

I posted the freaking interview and I said then they’re tanking. But my thing is after thinking about it, I wondered what if they start off hot. Will the GM have a change of heart? So I asked you that simple question that wasn’t intended to rub you the wrong way.

I don’t know how many supposedly pro bowlers the Eagles had that year? What I do know they fought through adversity (injuries) to a lot of starters especially on the offensive side and still won a Super Bowl.

But if tanking is what you want, more power to ya.
 

Mollywhopper

Facilitator
Staff member
If you can't name better players, how can you acuse the team of tanking?
Because one doesn't necessarily negate the other.

In fact if no one worth a flip wanted to sign here, and neither of us can prove that one way or another, that's all the more reason lean in on overhauling everything.
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
It's just semantics. If you want to call it tanking, fine. I prefer rebuild.

Caserio is certainly getting rid of deadwood, but he's also putting in place, on short term contracts, experienced veterans who fit the new culture but who also can implement Cully's team plan, offense and defense, with minimum instruction.Some will call these players jags, but that is to be seen and proven by their play on the field.

Tanking implies losing. Well, the Texans won 4 games last year. If the players Caserio gave Cully to put on the field win more than 4 games, does "tanking" fit. Rebuild, irregardless of the record, does fit.
 

Lucky

Not like this. Not like this.
Staff member
Caserio is certainly getting rid of deadwood, but he's also putting in place, on short term contracts, experienced veterans who fit the new culture but who also can implement Cully's team plan, offense and defense, with minimum instruction.Some will call these players jags, but that is to be seen and proven by their play on the field.
Caserio is just mimicking what he saw Belichick do 20 years ago when Nick arrived in Foxboro. Belichick also went nuts on bargain basement free agents. Former Bill 1st rounder Antowain Smith, a bruising RB that delivered a 1000 yard season. David Patten, a journeyman punt returner that became a starting WR. Mike Compton, a long time starting OG the Lions replaced with a pricey FA. A couple of journeymen DL that played for Belichick before in Bobby Hamilton and Anthony Pleasant. And the best signing was a Pittsburgh draft bust who did nothing in 4 years with the Steelers, Mike Vrabel. All of these became starters on Super Bowl teams.

But, there are big differences between those Pats and these Texans. First, Belichick hit on the draft pick of a lifetime. Tom Brady. You may have heard of him. Second, the previous regime left Belichick with a treasure trove of young talent.

Willie McGinest. Ty Law. Troy Brown. Teddy Bruschi. Damien Woody. Lawyer Milloy.

Pro Bowl players entering the peak of their careers. Those great bargain basement FAs filled in nicely around that premium talent. But guess what? Caserio didn't inherit that in Houston. The most valuable asset on the team is an albatross around Nick's neck. Caserio has the least amount of talent in the NFL. And he had little draft capital to build on, initially.

So what does Nick have to do to rebuild the Patriot way? He has to have draft picks. A lot of them. And hit at an astronomical rate. The best way to do that is to lose. Big. For quite awhile. Starting now. I know a lot of fans don't want to hear this. It's just the reality of this particular situation. Look at the talent on those Super Bowl champion Patriot teams. That talent is not here. Not yet. By a long shot.

Embrace the tank, people.
 
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banned1976

All Pro
I don’t know why the upset over the verbiage “tank”.

Just because someone is using the word “tank” doesn’t mean they’re saying they would have done differently. I said months ago the Texans should do all they can to dump salary. Start over from scratch. Tank this season for the future of the franchise. What is wrong with that? It’s better than just treading water at 4 to 8 wins.

When I use “tank mode” in reference in what Nick Caserio has done, and is doing, I’m not meaning it as a slam on the approach. But it does come with risks. If the Texans draft poorly with Nick (and others) they’re going to suck for maybe a long time. Browns territory.
 

banned1976

All Pro
Tank is when you don’t play hard and don’t care.

Rhymes with skank.
As others have written in this thread, players don’t “tank” a season. They play hard because if they don’t they’re going to get blown up by their opponent who is trying hard.

Management hasn’t put together a team built for the future. They haven’t “gone all out” in free agency to “win now” because they didn’t have the resources. Instead, Caserio stripped this team down to the bone, shedding as much future cap money as he could.

Anyway, I guess it is semantics. I’m actually surprised this thread merged. It seems we’ve discussed this subject to death in other similar threads. I’ve become hesitant to create threads because they so often get merged if they are even remotely similar to another thread.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
So what does Nick have to do to rebuild the Patriot way? He has to have draft picks. A lot of them. And hit at an astronomical rate.
More than that. He's got to establish a team culture that allowed Vrabel & all those other "jags" to form a greater whole.

Jags become good, good players become great, & great players become legends.

Not at all arguing your points, that was an awesome post, but it's not just about the draft & it's more than assembling great talent. Wes Welker was not drafted & he like many other Patriots from that dynasty played way above their talent.

I don't know how you make that happen. No one who's tried to repeat that outside of New England has been able to. Chances are Nick Caserio won't.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I said months ago the Texans should do all they can to dump salary. Start over from scratch. Tank this season for the future of the franchise. What is wrong with that?
Nothing is wrong with that.

imo, the problem is Nick didn't do any of that but people were/are still calling it a tank.

We've done nothing different this offseason than we normally do, except for the one year contracts, which may be setting up next year's tank.

We did not accumulate a plethora of draft picks by trading what little talent we had. We did not create cap space by signing UDFAs & bargain basement veterans at bargain basement contracts.

True to form, we straight up release Jj Watt & Will Fuller, restructure contracts that should have been dumped, & paid players to play for other teams.

I wouldn't call that a tank. Just the Texans way.
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
Got darn man why do a conversation with you always results into cursing and stuff. It’s if someone doesn’t agree you or you think they’re challenging your intelligence, you get mad and crap.

I posted the freaking interview and I said then they’re tanking. But my thing is after thinking about it, I wondered what if they start off hot. Will the GM have a change of heart? So I asked you that simple question that wasn’t intended to rub you the wrong way.

I don’t know how many supposedly pro bowlers the Eagles had that year? What I do know they fought through adversity (injuries) to a lot of starters especially on the offensive side and still won a Super Bowl.

But if tanking is what you want, more power to ya.
Maybe it has something to do with trying to have a conversation with people who have their heads in the sand. So you just make stuff up to argue points? You not knowing what was on the Eagles roster, for example. I know of at least 2 occcasions now that I've engaged with you about you saying the Eagles won the SB with a bunch of backups. That, of course, is a lie, and you just admitted that you didn't know how many ProBowlers they had. So why put that false narrative out there?

Nobody wants to be where the Texans are at right now. Nobody, not even me, likes a wasted season. But they're where they're at and have to do what they have to do to get us to where we're not wasting seasons like the Browns have done for so long. I'd rather go 0-17 for a year or two than go 15 years of 4, 5, 4, 6, 3, 5, 2, 7, 3 win seasons.

I haven't been too impressed with much of what Caserio has done so far, but I do understand the disaster he had to start with. I didn't like anything Luhnow was doing at first with the Astros when they had a payroll barely over $20M and losing 100+ games for 3 straight years. But he not only turned that into a perennial contender year in and year out for the last half decade, they won a WS. If Caserio has to gut this team and start over like that, and turns the Texans into legit SB contenders for a 5, 10 year period, I'll gladly take this throw away season.

Nobody likes it, it just is what it is.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I don’t know why the upset over the verbiage “tank”.

Just because someone is using the word “tank” doesn’t mean they’re saying they would have done differently. I said months ago the Texans should do all they can to dump salary. Start over from scratch. Tank this season for the future of the franchise. What is wrong with that? It’s better than just treading water at 4 to 8 wins.

When I use “tank mode” in reference in what Nick Caserio has done, and is doing, I’m not meaning it as a slam on the approach. But it does come with risks. If the Texans draft poorly with Nick (and others) they’re going to suck for maybe a long time. Browns territory.
You could say this about any GM.

If they dont hit on their picks the team will suck.
 


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