no excuses for david carr if...

[thunderkyss]

Hey I'll be the first to tell you I have flip flopped on several issues on here in the past 4 seasons. I was one of the ones calling for Carr to be benched either last preseason or the preseason before, can't remember which one.

that is not a flip flop...... that is not a flip flop.

I knew posts like that were going to hurt me in my argument. But.........

I've stated before, I never wanted to take Carr with the #1 pick in 2002. I wanted Joey Harrington(and still believe that would have worked out better for Joey, Carr, and the Texans). I am a fan of the Texans, so I will defend each and every Texan, especially during the regular season. I also mentioned the OLine as looking great in that game, and I defend our offensive line today.

If you dig deep enough, you'll see that my position is/has been to trade the #1 pick but because of all this Reggie Bush bowl crap, I decided to fortify my Vince young position by taking shots at Carr, that I wouldn't normally take. If you view some of my most recent posts, you'll see I'm trying to come to terms with taking Reggie.

Not much has changed since that post in November 2005. I still think David has a lot to work on. I still think we can win a lot of games for us. I don't think now, or then, that David is going to take us to the SuperBowl. I still would have loved to see how we'd look with Joey Harrington(starting since 2002, I think things would've been way different). If it weren't for signing Rosenfell(sp), I'd still rather take Vince with the #1 overall, and start David for the first half of 2006.

Soon as Training Camp starts, I won't mention the words Vince Young and the Texans in the same sentence again...... you can hold me to that. Heck, after signing Rosenfell(sp) I'm less inclined to do so now.

I will continue to give David a hard time, till Week 1.


That is not a flip flop.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

Over? The guy is 26. Kubiak hasn't had the opportunity to coach a game, yet. Why not wait to watch a couple of series before proclaiming the end of an era?

I'm a trench guy, too. Unfortunately, the $$$ the Texans have spent there hasn't produced results. Again, maybe the new staff can turn around the McKinneys, Wades, and Robaire Smiths. I'm willing to find out before becoming upset over cap problems that don't currently exist.

I am waiting to see what the Kubiak effect will look like as well. I am of the ilk that if Kubiak can't get it done then no one can. All things do come to an end, but planning must happen well before the end arrives. This is how I think, whether you want to call me a nervous nellie or one that this proactively thinking about solutions that fit our cap, our style, our personnel while balancing it with the macroeconomics of the NFL then I am cool with either.

 

[thunderkyss]

I was also in support, and very vocal about it on the Cowboys forum, that keeping Quincy Carter till their Franchise back was made available to them without having to sell the farm.

I think Bill Parcells was with me 'till the drug problems surfaced. I feel the same way about Carr.... we've got a lot of other things to worry about. Till that Franchise QB is out there, that we have a legitimate claim to, with out having to sell the farm to get, we stay with Carr.

our farm would have to be sold now, that we've extended Carr's contract, and are paying Sage to challenge Carr.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

As far as the Carr contract not sure were KT was going with that one.

Get me off this crazy thread or at least take the shovel out of my hands. I just need to move on as I do not believe in Carr nor the way we spend our dollars. All I can do is hope that it gets better.

 

[adrianshrev]

Get me off this crazy thread or at least take the shovel out of my hands. I just need to move on as I do not believe in Carr nor the way we spend our dollars. All I can do is hope that it gets better.

as far as carr's contract it is kubiak who authorized it and he is trying to rebuild carr's confidence like it was when he was a rookie...the coaching last yr sucked period they were coaching not to lose rather than coaching to win..
i realize that all of you have got to go to the games i have had to dvr them so i could watch them and in the cincy game for example the rt didn't get out of his stance one play and carr was sacked... i think kub's is going to get the oline in the right position and mike sherman is going to put a ft in their collective butts if they can't do the job...that is my hope anyways...i hate the reggie pick i think taking d'brick or mario w/1st pick is alright if we can't trade down because that is what we need and who cares if we overpay at one of those positions when we need both and don't need a rb...good luck in the arguments to follow

 

[Coach C.]

Ok KT I see what you were talking about now. We discussed this before we executed the option. Yes they should have just reworked the complete deal to reflect performance. I think they could have got him for a cheaper price over the next two years and then put an option in year three that would make him alot of money if he performed, plus load the first two years with reasonable roster bonuses and some reachable performance milestones and he would have made some good cash.

 

[TJFord]

Jeez, I thought that VY got a lot of benefits from the Rose Bowl but he has nothing on "David's Miracle Half vs. 'Zona". It is truly sad that after 4 years of watching Carr the best thing to be said is that he had a good half in one of the two games we won last year. I do not think that anyone is saying that our record was entirley DC's fault, but I can't believe that half of you are saying unequivically (sp?) that he should not shoulder the blame. Look people the QB is the only player that touches the ball every snap and thus can impact the game more than any other player. Its real hard to blame a group of guys that nobody expected to be good, likewise it is hard to throw kudos to guy billed as a great player who has yet to break even in a season. I wish people were as patient with Steve Francis...

 

[Runner]

Hey I'll be the first to tell you I have flip flopped on several issues on here in the past 4 seasons. I was one of the ones calling for Carr to be benched either last preseason or the preseason before, can't remember which one.

Flip flopping can be good. It shows the ability to consider new evidence and evaluate it, rather than keep hard headed opinions no matter what.

 

[infantrycak]

Carr being #2 behind Vick for rushing yards for a QB, tells me Carr is almost as inept as Vick is in the passing game...

That's absolutely hilarious coming from a Vince Young fanatic.

 

[SESupergenius]

When a QB leeves(leaves, or leives, (sp)) the pocket, he needs to be looking downfield. He needs to be making plays with his arm.

How many TD's did Young throw when he left the pocket against USC? You can't have your argument both ways.

 

[thunderkyss]

That's absolutely hilarious coming from a Vince Young fanatic.

How so?? I've always said I'll take Young over Carr, because he plays better outside the pocket. I've always referred to how he keeps his eyes down the field, and mentioned several times that I am impressed by his abillity to look at different recieving options while on the move.

How many TD's did Young throw when he left the pocket against USC? You can't have your argument both ways.

I'm not saying Carr has to throw TD's, but there are times when he needs to create time for our recievers to get open, then make the big play down the field. Carr will be teed on, again, and again with little fear that he will beat the blitz. Vince will punish you if you blitz too often.

 

[tsip]

Ok KT I see what you were talking about now. We discussed this before we executed the option. Yes they should have just reworked the complete deal to reflect performance. I think they could have got him for a cheaper price over the next two years and then put an option in year three that would make him alot of money if he performed, plus load the first two years with reasonable roster bonuses and some reachable performance milestones and he would have made some good cash.

Good post! This is what the team should have done with Carr's contract situation. I can not imagine that the 'higher-ups' in the organization even considered this '5th year' situation for Carr when he was drafted-surely, they had 'all-pro' play in their equation. So, why do they continue to 'treat' Carr with 'kid gloves?' Is he really that sensitive?

From day one, Carr was handed the starting job and no serious challenger has been brought in since then, nor were the QB's already here allowed to play.At an early point in its career, this team is putting it all on the line with Carr, declining to do anything that might have help 'push' Carr's performance to a higher level. In my management career, I was trained early on to want a #2 man that wanted my job and not be intimidated by their talents/desire/results. Having people under me with these talents and the oppurtunity to use them made me a better supervisor/person but-for some reason-the Texans must believe that Carr needs no help/push to not only be the best he can be but-most important-will achieve desired results on the field.

Certainly, time will tell, However, I believe the Texans could have done more to insure that Carr is 'mentally' prepared and motivated--handing him everything on a 'silver platter' may not have been the best choice. We'll see.

 

[Lucky]

...Yes they should have just reworked the complete deal to reflect performance. I think they could have got him for a cheaper price over the next two years and then put an option in year three that would make him alot of money if he performed, plus load the first two years with reasonable roster bonuses and some reachable performance milestones and he would have made some good cash.

I think you are wrong. The Texans had to either exercise Carr's option, put a franchise or transition tag on him, or allow David to enter free agency. Where he would have received more guaranteed money than he got from the Texans. Carr had the leverage, the Texans didn't. There was absolutely no reason to accept less than the 3 year, $ 25 million he got from the Texans. Look at the prices now being paid free agents and you'll see that's true.

 

[Coach C.]

Lucky at the time FA was not there and Carr wanted to be here, I am not saying he would not get the 8M bonus that would have been guaranteed money to him. I am saying we restructure the contract to a longer term deal that has some outs. It would be similar to how Denver first structued Jake Plummer's contract when they brought him in.

 

[Second Honeymoon]

That's crazy! Dave Carr is better than Vince Young? Unbelieveable! Carr is the worst QB in the NFL and VY is the best player in this year's draft period, did you see the Rose Bowl? In two years we'll still be making excuses for Carr and VY will be the leading the Titains to the playoff. And as for as the wonderf___ test, what does a written test has to do with playing football; if you gave that same test to Charley C, he'd likely do well, however, if you asks him to evaluate a football player, lets just see:

1. Dave Carr (the worst qb in the league)
2. Jason Babin (the worst first round pick in football)
3. Phillip Bucannon (worst, period)
Should I go on? Nay, you get the picture.
:brickwall

sad thing is they dont get the picture, but its time to turn the page. everyone knows we arent drafting VY. anyone who is honest with themselves knows that Carr is at best a career backup getting paid franchise QB money. As long as we have so much money tied into Carr we will continue to be viewed as a joke in the NFL and a team NO ONE wants to come to unless we overpay to the Nth degree. Currently we are a less desirable football destination than any team in the NFL besides maybe Green Bay, Arizona and San Francisco. This is a sad fact due to our great facilities, good fan support and no state income tax/low cost of living in comparison to other cities. But if you want to blame someone blame Casserley and to a lesser extent McNair for not putting Mr.Acne in the unemployment line after a dismal 2-14 season and total ineptitude in the draft/Free Agency.

Thanks McNair, you just wasted $700 million dollars and would probably be lucky to get $450 million in its current state. Bad QB, Check. Bad Front Office, Check. Bad Players in the trenches, Check. Bad Free Agency Signing, Check. Bad Draft Picks, Check. Bad Team, Check.

That being said, if they can find a way to sign Runyan, all will be forgiven and maybe we can be the AFC version of the Bears and win with running game and good defense...oh wait, our defense sucks.

Doug from the Woodlands

 

[Lucky]

...I am saying we restructure the contract to a longer term deal that has some outs.

At the time the Texans had to make a decision on the Carr option, a bonus could only be spread over 4 years. The Texans did spread the option bonus over 4 years, because they had '05 cap room left. And Carr didn't have to agree to the additional year contract, much less the outs for the Texans.

The Texans could redo the contract now, and spread a bonus over 6 seasons. But unless there would be much more $$$ up front, why would Carr agree to that? If you like Carr as the Texans QB in '06 (and Kubiak does), this was the contract that made sense. If they weren't sold on Carr, they should have cut him back in February, used the extra $$$ on free agents, looked at Brees & Culpepper, or start comparing Leinart to Young. That didn't happen.

 

[Second Honeymoon]

i know i come off negative on a lot of things but I have come to start thinking Kubiak was a good choice as Head Coach and from listening to him on NFL Network and in interviews he seems committed to turning around things here with what works. He is working his butt off trying to come up with a new mindset and a new scheme for the team. I really feel he is putting his blood sweat and tears into rewarding McNair's faith in him.

Put it this way, when I saw the interview on NFL Network, the dude look tired and a bit haggard. THAT IS AWESOME. We dont ncessarily need a near obsessive compulsive 80-90s era Joe Gibbs type of fanaticsm/work ethic but I do feel he is really busting his buns to turn this ship around and probably feels embarassed of how the team looked on film when he watched video from last year. Put it this way, if this guy can find a way to morph Carr into a legit NFL starting QB we need to rename Reliant Stadium to Kubiak Field and give the dude keys to the city and anoint him mayor.

Prove me wrong about Carr, Mr.Kubiak!! Prove me wrong!!

doug from the woodlands

 

[jgite]

I think you are wrong. The Texans had to either exercise Carr's option, put a franchise or transition tag on him, or allow David to enter free agency. Where he would have received more guaranteed money than he got from the Texans. Carr had the leverage, the Texans didn't. There was absolutely no reason to accept less than the 3 year, $ 25 million he got from the Texans. Look at the prices now being paid free agents and you'll see that's true.

I think that Carr didn't have any leverage in getting his bonus. That was purely the organization's decision. If they wanted to give him the two year deal then he would have had to accept it. That was the point the team was making when the bonus was being discussed.
IMO, I would have loved to have Vince Young learning the playbook and playing later. That is something that they should have done with Carr. I wasn't to keen on him as our #1 in 2002. But if that's who they wanted then I was gonna roll with the team. I'm still not convinced of D. Carr's ability to put his team on his back and win. I would like to either have VY or trade down. Since reality is setting in like with with most people on here, Bush is okay with me.
I don't like the way free agency has started (except Weaver). I didn't realize backup QB's can command that much. If Carr shows improvement above what he was doing 2004 and continues to get better. I can accept that. They still shouldn't have given him the entire 8 Mil.

 

[HJam72]

I must admit, I'm pretty sure that Carr is not strong enough to carry an entire team on his back. Maybe a team of 3 yr. olds....nah.

 

[texplayer2]

Regardless of if he is good or a deer in headlights we will be seeing David Carr on the feild. We will be seeing Vince Young 2 time a year here and in tennessee. It will really get my goat if VY gets the ring for Bud But Knowing that VY is a Houstonian he just might tank the first 4 years and come to us when David has worn out his welcome. But untill then David Carr is the captian of this team and untill he is dethroned he will have my support. We are not getting Vince from what I hear from the people who know. So get ready for some Reggie ball and hang on. It will be a ride worth riding.

Go Texans

I think the Titans will go with Lienert(Norm Chow connection) if the Saints don't trade down from two, with a team that wants him. We might not see Vince until we play the Jets one of these days.

 

[threetoedpete]

1. we have an offensive minded coaching staff (check)
2. we do add john runyan to the OL
3. we draft reggie bush
4. we sign jeb putzier

david carr will have more favorable playcalling, a better line with better blocking schemes, a running game that should be really good, a recieving TE as the safety valve. with the recievers he has, the better blocking, the versitility of reggie bush to be used as a RB or WR, a better recieving FB jameel cook, and the offensive mindfulness of the staff...if david carr is not producing good numbers after week 3, do the texans make a change?? what happens?

Nice try....if you're counting going to war with this group of OL, it's not a better OL. It is a patch work OL. Even with the mossback Ryunyan added to the group. And has been a patch work OL since Boselli bombed out. Let's see Hutch just signed for how many millions in Minnesoooooda ?
What ever it is I bet you a coke our little band of warriors on the OL collectively don't match it. Zone scheme or not...tallent makes a difference. If they stand pat on the OL, this coaching staff would have earned their pay if they can keep DC upright an entire season with this group. Welcome to the big suck. Rb's going to be a stud at picking up the blitz, you know this because ?
Jeff is a good pick up simply for the fact once they sign him, he'll be the best prospect on the feild at TE. ..Not a stud mind you, but a servicable TE who can drag himself onto a football feild with out getting injured. If they are not producing good numers by week three they should of taken Brick and left the California kid alone. Lastly, a lot of people on this board were ready to pack it in with Carr from day one. This will be the year. I just hope you're giddy over the failure and enjoy yourselves. The rest of us have had a bellyfull of the whinning. Never know how good DC could of been. What I do know for a fact is that he has had no support from this organization. And they're going to do it to him again this year. They're going to stand pat with this group. Mind boggeling. I hope he ends up on his feet and kicks the beJesus out of us every time he faces us.
It wasn't that Carr wasn't good enough for us. It was we weren't good enough for him.

 

[thunderkyss]

And has been a patch work OL since Boselli bombed out.

it's been patchwork since Boselli bombed?? didn't we put our very own First day pick in his spot??

 

[texan279]

it's been patchwork since Boselli bombed?? didn't we put our very own First day pick in his spot??

He said the offensive line has been a patchwork job since Boselli bombed, not the LT spot...

 

[SESupergenius]

it's been patchwork since Boselli bombed?? didn't we put our very own First day pick in his spot??

Since there are 5 guys on the line and Pitts was supposed to compliment Boselli on the line, losing Boselli cost us. The pathwork happend because we kept getting put off on the date he was coming back. Conspiracy theorists believe however that the Texans management knew all along that he wasn't coming back and what a great deal we got in getting Payne and Walker.