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NFL Total Access: Texans to pass on Bush?

[rotoworld blurb]

link

"I would say if Reggie Bush wasn't in this draft, there wouldn't be any question who the first pick of the draft is. It would be Mario Williams... He deserves to be in that discussion," --Casserly
 
Tale Gator said:
[rotoworld blurb]

link

"I would say if Reggie Bush wasn't in this draft, there wouldn't be any question who the first pick of the draft is. It would be Mario Williams... He deserves to be in that discussion," --Casserly
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Charlie, they ain't released you yet?
 
tulexan said:
Deuce:

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/235228/gamelogs/2003


Aaron:

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/133233/gamelogs/2003


Deuce consistently had great games while Aaron was his typical inconsistent self. I noticed a lot of sub 200 yard passing games during Deuce's 9 game 100+ yard rushing streak.
Click to expand...

Yep, you got me....... Poor inconsistant Aaron Brooks played better than David Carr in his best year........ a lot of those sub 200 yard games, he had ratings over 80......... completions rarely falling below 60%, only 7 times all year.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a Duece fan also, but I don't think he is better than DD. Different, he can break off a 70 yard TD run, while that isn't in DD's repetoire......

But Duece has had a better team throughout his carreer....... position by position.
 
How would you guys feel if the Texans do trade down and take Vince Young. I don't see it happening, but if they did what would be your reaction.
 
Frak The Jags said:
Adam Schefler was on & he said we haven't even talked to Reggie Bush's people about negotiations & that we didn't even let him meet with some important people when he visited here. Pretty much stated that we don't seem very interested, while we have been in relentless pursuit of contract negotiations with Mario Williams. Wow, the backlash from passing on Young AND Bush...........
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can anyone smell AJ HAWK!?

:ok:
 
TexanFanInCC said:
can anyone smell AJ HAWK!?
Click to expand...
ESPN is reporting that the Texans and Bush's agent had some discussion today and will begin negotitations later this week. (this is in an article posted earlier under this topic - but I'm too lazy to repost the link...)
 
Frank_The_Tank said:
How would you guys feel if the Texans do trade down and take Vince Young. I don't see it happening, but if they did what would be your reaction.
Click to expand...


Honestly, I'd be pretty annoyed at the team. Last year I was sitting there watching Derrick Johnson fall right into our lap and what did we do? We went and screwed the whole thing up and ended up with TJ's fat useless butt. They spun that like they meant to get him all along but i don't buy it. They tried to be clever and someone grabbed their guy. Then when I complained about it all I heard for the rest of the off-season was that all of us "UT Homers" should just shut up and accept that we didn't get our man.

Now I want to see the Texans draft Reggie Bush and I'm convinced that Vince Young will prove to be a bad mistake if we take him and what do I hear? I'm a "UT hater" now or an Aggie or something.

I think Bush will be something special. I think the Texans should take him with the top pick and not look back. If they pass on him and he goes on to be even half the player I think he will be then I'm going to bring that up every day for the rest of his career and possibly beyond. I'll be on a lot of peoples ignore lists I guess.
 
Hervoyel said:
Honestly, I'd be pretty annoyed at the team. Last year I was sitting there watching Derrick Johnson fall right into our lap and what did we do? We went and screwed the whole thing up and ended up with TJ's fat useless butt. They spun that like they meant to get him all along but i don't buy it. They tried to be clever and someone grabbed their guy. Then when I complained about it all I heard for the rest of the off-season was that all of us "UT Homers" should just shut up and accept that we didn't get our man.

Now I want to see the Texans draft Reggie Bush and I'm convinced that Vince Young will prove to be a bad mistake if we take him and what do I hear? I'm a "UT hater" now or an Aggie or something.

I think Bush will be something special. I think the Texans should take him with the top pick and not look back. If they pass on him and he goes on to be even half the player I think he will be then I'm going to bring that up every day for the rest of his career and possibly beyond. I'll be on a lot of peoples ignore lists I guess.
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I agree with you and disagree with you. I'd be annoyed to, because whoever is their guy they should just take and be done with. I dont think its reggie bush, and we have discussed that ad nauseum. I do have to refute your travis johnson point. I have actually talked to a texans scout for several hours about the derrick johnson passing. Believe me when i say this, even though i was a fan too. If derrick johnson fell to 16, they were still passing on him. PERIOD. Casserly was (and is) dead set against him. It WAS spin, because travis johnson was not who they were targeting at 16...they got thomas davis sniped right out from under them....Casserly had a "gut feeling" in the war room that he could get his guy and they would come out smelling rosy. This is pretty much direct from a guy who was there.

As for bringing stuff up after the draft....why? What good can we do herv? I think vince young is the best quarterback to come out in years. If they pass on him i will regret it for his entire career. However, let draft day bygones be bygones.....being right isnt enough anymore. You have to know whats going to happen, tell people, fight off the disbelievers, and still be right about every single thing you say. Just let it go if they dont get reggie...and i'll let it go if they dont get vince, and we can get back to just being fans of our team. What do you say?
 
kastofsna said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huge
I can name 3:
Bruce Smith
Ed "Too Tall" Jones
Bubba Smith

Name the RBs that went #1 overall that made an impact:
Billy Sims
Earl Campbell
OJ Simpson

Am I missing a point somewhere?

yes.
Click to expand...
No really, I'd like to know what point I'm missing.
 
From ESPN Insider (Todd McShay):

The 2006 NFL draft is rapidly approaching. With less than two weeks remaining before draft weekend kicks off on April 29, it's time to take a look at how the seven-round process could shake out:

1. Houston Texans (2-14)
Top-five needs: OT, OG, DC, WR, RB
The pick: +Reggie Bush, RB, USC
The Texans are surprisingly fielding far more trade offers for their pick than the Saints are at No. 2. If the deal is sweet enough, there's still a chance that the Texans could trade down a few spots (Jets?) and still get an elite player at a position of greater need, such as NC State DE Mario Williams or Virginia OT D'Brickashaw Ferguson. When all the dust settles, however, the Texans are still expected to take Bush with the first overall selection. Running back is not one of the Texans' top positional needs, but Bush is far more than just a running back. He's the most explosive runner, receiver and return man that this year's class has to offer. No other rookie will make a bigger impact than Bush will for the Texans next season.
Click to expand...
 
Hervoyel said:
Honestly, I'd be pretty annoyed at the team. Last year I was sitting there watching Derrick Johnson fall right into our lap and what did we do? We went and screwed the whole thing up and ended up with TJ's fat useless butt. They spun that like they meant to get him all along but i don't buy it. They tried to be clever and someone grabbed their guy. Then when I complained about it all I heard for the rest of the off-season was that all of us "UT Homers" should just shut up and accept that we didn't get our man.

Now I want to see the Texans draft Reggie Bush and I'm convinced that Vince Young will prove to be a bad mistake if we take him and what do I hear? I'm a "UT hater" now or an Aggie or something.

I think Bush will be something special. I think the Texans should take him with the top pick and not look back. If they pass on him and he goes on to be even half the player I think he will be then I'm going to bring that up every day for the rest of his career and possibly beyond. I'll be on a lot of peoples ignore lists I guess.
Click to expand...

I will chalk it up to being late in the evening. I wouldn't expect you to be so wrapped up in the potential of a college player when this off season is more about the coaching change and the free agent acquisitions filling needs.

I expect Bush to be a very good player, but I expect Williams, Hawk and Huff to be good as well.
 
Hervoyel said:
I think Bush will be something special. I think the Texans should take him with the top pick and not look back. If they pass on him and he goes on to be even half the player I think he will be then I'm going to bring that up every day for the rest of his career and possibly beyond. I'll be on a lot of peoples ignore lists I guess.
Click to expand...
Not to mention the fact that Bush would take special delight in tearing up the team that passed on him. I'd much rather see him in Steel Blue, making Titans fans cry two Sundays a year.
 
swtbound07 said:
It WAS spin, because travis johnson was not who they were targeting at 16...they got thomas davis sniped right out from under them....Casserly had a "gut feeling" in the war room that he could get his guy and they would come out smelling rosy. This is pretty much direct from a guy who was there.
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If they thought Davis would be there at 16 then they need to start reading more. There were multiple reports that New Orleans, KC, and Carolina all had Davis rated higher than DJ.
 
wags said:
If they thought Davis would be there at 16 then they need to start reading more. There were multiple reports that New Orleans, KC, and Carolina all had Davis rated higher than DJ.
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It has to sting Wags. How was Davis this past year?
 
The question shouldn't be which RBs went #1 and were worth it, the question should be which RBs DESERVED to be #1. There were RBs who went below there who, in hindsight, could easily be justified in being #1 picks. LT, anyone? Barry Sanders? Looking back, it would be easy for a team to say, "We should have taken him that year #1."

Just imagine playing Reggie Bush twice a year, every year. Imagine every Sunday watching ESPN SportsCenter, and seeing the tagline on Reggie, and hearing Stuart Scott saying 'BOO-YAH! What WERE the Texans thinking?'

It's much better to suffer playing against a great player when you had no chance at all of getting him, then playing against him every year knowing you made the mind numbingly stupid decision to not draft him.

And as for the Derrick Johnson non-pick, those theories above are wrong. They didn't draft him because he is a MLB. You don't invest first round picks and money in middle LBs in a 3-4. Capers was a 3-4 coach. He would be a great fit now - but that wasn't their focus then. They didn't trade down to try and get him lower, they weren't going to draft him. Period
 
Kaiser Toro said:
It has to sting Wags. How was Davis this past year?
Click to expand...

He was OK. Played mostly a joker role in nickel sets. Sacked Tom Brady and shut down Vick every time he scrambled. Almost killed Terrence Murphy in the Packers game.

The Panthers like him and he will be used better this year. They are switching him to linebacker apparently.
 
Texansfan30 said:
The question shouldn't be which RBs went #1 and were worth it, the question should be which RBs DESERVED to be #1.
Click to expand...

This has been the problem to date for the Texans. Carr and AJ deserved 7 million a year, but did not earn it. I do not want anymore players on offense that deserve 7 mil per. I trust the new staff and the direction they have taken this recent off season. Moreover, we have a second year back in Morency that can help Davis.
 
We also have Anthony Weaver, ND Kalu, Antwan Peek, and Jason Babin. I guess that means that we shouldn't take Mario Williams
 
tulexan said:
We also have Anthony Weaver, ND Kalu, Antwan Peek, and Jason Babin. I guess that means that we shouldn't take Mario Williams
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Weaver can play DE/DT. Kalu does not cost anything. Peek can still be moved or cut for nothing. Babin is a little trickier, but I do expect him to work off last season's momentum. Once again it is offense vs. defense. When we extended Carr and signed Moulds, Flanagan, McKinney, Cook and Putzier we pretty much sewed up our needs and spend on offense for this coming year.

As I have stated before, if we did not extend Carr I would be in the Bush camp front and center.
 
I think that when we signed Weaver to a big contract, signed Kalu, and gave Peek a first round tender that we sewed up our needs on the DL. It's not just Peek, Babin, Weaver, and Kalu, but we also have an expensive Robaire Smith, and first round pick Travis Johnson.

We have a lot of money tied up in the DL and now you want to add another $45-50 million to it? Our needs on defense right now are at LB and DB positions.
 
this is what i think, you cant get a reggie bush in free agency that guy is going to be locked up all the way through his prime. if babin doesnt work out you can easily find a replacement in free agency. if the texans pick up mario with the #1 pick i will lose all faith in them. now if they trade down thats a different story as long as they get an impact player
 
Kaiser Toro said:
As I have stated before, if we did not extend Carr I would be in the Bush camp front and center.
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Then you'd be kinda outta luck because the Texans would probably be going after Young or Leinart...
 
tulexan said:
I think that when we signed Weaver to a big contract, signed Kalu, and gave Peek a first round tender that we sewed up our needs on the DL. It's not just Peek, Babin, Weaver, and Kalu, but we also have an expensive Robaire Smith, and first round pick Travis Johnson.

We have a lot of money tied up in the DL and now you want to add another $45-50 million to it? Our needs on defense right now are at LB and DB positions.
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What did Weaver get?? 13 million over 4 years?? that's chump change.

light said:
this is what i think, you cant get a reggie bush in free agency that guy is going to be locked up all the way through his prime. if babin doesnt work out you can easily find a replacement in free agency. if the texans pick up mario with the #1 pick i will lose all faith in them. now if they trade down thats a different story as long as they get an impact player
Click to expand...

WE could have gotten Edgerin James in FA, and Shaun Alexander has been a threat to hit the FA market for what 3 years running??
 
LoneStarState said:
Then you'd be kinda outta luck because the Texans would probably be going after Young or Leinart...
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Nope, I do not believe in drafting a QB in the upper echelon of the draft. To much money for an unproven commodity that needs time to develop.
 
thunderkyss said:
What did Weaver get?? 13 million over 4 years?? that's chump change.
Click to expand...

Actually Weaver got a 5 year $26.5 million contract with $12 million guaranteed. That is far from chump change.
 
Thunderkyss thanks for the info on Young. It did open my eyes some, but a question that I ask is why is it that Simms ran a certain type of offense and then Young could not succeed in it. I know you have to adjust, but Young seemed to make the coaches change or he was not going to be the QB. I do agree that Young and Matt both have impeccable intagibles, and yes Matt does have that Hollywood stigma that says he might opt out to the league early, but Young has an Aaron Brooks aloofness about him that scares me also.

I do admit though after researching and watching some games, I feel that Young is much better than I gave him credit for. He is not good enough to be the number 1 pick, but he deserves the top 12. His throwing style fits with Arizona well, he has receivers that will go get the ball which he will need to be successful in the NFL.

Also on the subject of Weaver he is seems like a talented DT that is undersized. I know that he played DE at ND, but he is not overly quick, and more of a run stuffer. I question his ability to get pressure, but at DT I think he could put up, consistently, Rocky Benard type 2005 seasons.
 
tulexan said:
Did you even read your source?

It says in the last link that Anthony Weaver signed a 5 year contract for $26.5 million with $12 million guaranteed
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which Link?? on two of them, I'm blocked from........ fantasy sports and all.

on the other, the Houston Pro Football, they have weaver counting $3.4mil against the cap this year. Signed through 2010, 4 years, that works out to $13.6 million, including the bonus.
 
PokerStar said:
Thunderkyss thanks for the info on Young. It did open my eyes some, but a question that I ask is why is it that Simms ran a certain type of offense and then Young could not succeed in it. I know you have to adjust, but Young seemed to make the coaches change or he was not going to be the QB. I do agree that Young and Matt both have impeccable intagibles, and yes Matt does have that Hollywood stigma that says he might opt out to the league early, but Young has an Aaron Brooks aloofness about him that scares me also.

I do admit though after researching and watching some games, I feel that Young is much better than I gave him credit for. He is not good enough to be the number 1 pick, but he deserves the top 12. His throwing style fits with Arizona well, he has receivers that will go get the ball which he will need to be successful in the NFL.

Also on the subject of Weaver he is seems like a talented DT that is undersized. I know that he played DE at ND, but he is not overly quick, and more of a run stuffer. I question his ability to get pressure, but at DT I think he could put up, consistently, Rocky Benard type 2005 seasons.
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Simms ran the UT offense, but he wasn't anything special. I believe TampaBay got him on the cheap. He was a much better QB than he had shown in Texas. I think that is because UT is built for running the football. Who was the last Great QB to come out of Texas?? How many impressive Running backs came out of Texas??

In fact, the word was that Phil was going to take Chris out of Texas, so he can play on a team the threw the ball more. In my Orange hued world, Vince sold the coaches on an offensive plan that made sense with the Offense he had.

Now Weaver, I think we brought him in to be a run stopper. You want to win championships, there are two things you have got to do, no if's ands or buts. You have to run the ball, and you have to stop the run.
 
thunderkyss said:
which Link?? on two of them, I'm blocked from........ fantasy sports and all.

on the other, the Houston Pro Football, they have weaver counting $3.4mil against the cap this year. Signed through 2010, 4 years, that works out to $13.6 million, including the bonus.
Click to expand...


The USA today link (3rd one) said that he was signed to a 5 year $26.5 million with $12 million guaranteed.

The HPF link said that his 2006 allocated bonus pay is $2.4 million. If that stays constant (which it won't because there will be other future bonuses kicking in) that alone will be around $10 million. His base salary this year is $1 million. That too will increase every year.

http://kffl.com/player/133/nfl

There is a breakdown of the contract.
 
PokerStar said:
Thunderkyss thanks for the info on Young. It did open my eyes some, but a question that I ask is why is it that Simms ran a certain type of offense and then Young could not succeed in it.
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In the Longhorns' previous offense, Simms unperformed to his talent level. And Vince was no less successful in it than Simms was. It wasn't until Mack Brown and Greg Davis changed their offensive philosophy that the Longhorns were able to break that ceiling and win a championship. It wasn't just about shotgun formations and designed running plays - it was also about playing to win instead of playing not to lose.

IMO, a good coach tweaks his system to bring out the best performances in his players.
 
Tulip said:
In the Longhorns' previous offense, Simms unperformed to his talent level. And Vince was no less successful in it than Simms was. It wasn't until Mack Brown and Greg Davis changed their offensive philosophy that the Longhorns were able to break that ceiling and win a championship. It wasn't just about shotgun formations and designed running plays - it was also about playing to win instead of playing not to lose.

IMO, a good coach tweaks his system to bring out the best performances in his players.
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simms was not great at texas, but he was much better in that offense than young was.

basically young's mommy complained to mack that he was in the wrong offense and brown changed it. definitely the funniest story i've heard yet involving young.
 
thunderkyss said:
Simms ran the UT offense, but he wasn't anything special. I believe TampaBay got him on the cheap.
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He was the #1 recruit coming out of high school - the perfect physical specimen - and he was drafted at spot #97, the last pick of the third round.

That must have been some offense the Longhorns were running.
 
young was the #1 recruit as well, and in the same offense, he was being considered a receiver at the next level. now a top 10 pick at QB. hmm, nothing to do with the offense i'm sure.
 
kastofsna said:
simms was not great at texas, but he was much better in that offense than young was.

basically young's mommy complained to mack that he was in the wrong offense and brown changed it. definitely the funniest story i've heard yet involving young.
Click to expand...
Simms' first two seasons at Texas:
86 of 153 (56.2%), 1287 yards, 10 TDs, 8 INTs

Young's stats playing in that same offense (before it was changed):
143 of 247 (57.9%), 1894 yards, 14 TDs, 9 INTs

Now looking at those numbers, you're going to attempt to convince others that Simms was "much better" in that offense than Young? Wait, sorry...forgot who I was asking for a second.

I thought your first comment was a dumb one until I read the one about Vince's mom.
 
Almost forgot...

kastofsna said:
Originally Posted by Huge
I can name 3:
Bruce Smith
Ed "Too Tall" Jones
Bubba Smith

Name the RBs that went #1 overall that made an impact:
Billy Sims
Earl Campbell
OJ Simpson

Am I missing a point somewhere?

yes.
Click to expand...
What point was/am I missing?
 
Tulip said:
He was the #1 recruit coming out of high school - the perfect physical specimen - and he was drafted at spot #97, the last pick of the third round.

That must have been some offense the Longhorns were running.
Click to expand...


so you agree with me??
 
Huge said:
Simms' first two seasons at Texas:
86 of 153 (56.2%), 1287 yards, 10 TDs, 8 INTs

Young's stats playing in that same offense (before it was changed):
143 of 247 (57.9%), 1894 yards, 14 TDs, 9 INTs

Now looking at those numbers, you're going to attempt to convince others that Simms was "much better" in that offense than Young? Wait, sorry...forgot who I was asking for a second.

I thought your first comment was a dumb one until I read the one about Vince's mom.
Click to expand...

Your forgetting the fact that Simms' eventually had success in the Texas offense, the same one that had to be changed for Vince. If you look at Vince's final season at Texas and Simms' final at Texas, they are pretty even if you ask me.

PASSING Cmp Att Pct Yds Yd/A TD Int Rating

Vince Young 212 325 65.2 3,036 9.3 26 10 163.9


Chris Simms 235 396 59.3 3,207 8.1 26 12 143.0
 
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