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NFL scout talks about JaMarcus Russel
- Thread starter dbspi
- Start date
for a minute thought this was another kastofsna self-proclaimed "NFL Draft Expert" analysis
dbspi
Waterboy
yeah it's a concern but the guy is young and he does have all the tools.
sprtsfanatic
Veteran
does anyone have any reference material to compare some of his other thoughts on players and how they turned out??? without a comparison I cant really say his opinion holds any water...working for 11 NFL teams though really puts a question mark on where he goes in the draft...especially if he works for any of the 7 in front of us.
dbspi
Waterboy
yes but it is also possible that he might be working for us as well.
dbspi
Waterboy
sorry for got to quote,
yes but it is also possible that he might be working for us as well.
kastofsna
Hall of Fame
landry used to work for LSU, he knows all about russell. i'll listen to him over anyone else about LSU players. and he generally fluffs his opinion up a bit, so this is definitely something i'd worry about. plus....he's just not that good of a quarterback.
threetoedpete
Hall of Fame
Wake me up when the water walker gets beyond 55% completion rate. There are old QBs in the NFL and Bold QBs in the NFL. But there are no old bold QBs in the NFL.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
wth is that? Some Nostradamus quatrain? John Elway's first year he threw under 50% (259 attempts and 123 completions and 14 INT's to go with only 7TD passes). Stat-drivel gets so old....watch a few games.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
John Elway's gonna be dead, and you're gonna say, "Oh, I've been listening to him for years, and I think he's fabulous."
First, Landry has been saying critical stuff of JR for a while. And JR somehow finds a way to throw for over 3,100 yards this year with 28 TDs, completes 68 percent of his passes, leads the team to double digit wins for the second straight year and manages to engineer a number of game winning drives against solid competition the last two years.
Is the guy perfect? No. But his development the last two years has been significant, and his physical ability at the position is just about unmatched. Anyone saying this guy ain't a good QB hasn't watched him much. I've watched nearly every LSU game of his since 2004, so I've followed his development and know how far he's come and how good he is. When he first began, he was easily rattled, stared down his receiver and forced bad passes. Now, for the most part, he's as cool in the pocket as can be, spreads the ball around (three receivers each caught more than 50 passes this year), runs when he needs to and throws it away when nothing else is there. He's learned to take what is open and strike big downfield when the opportunity arises. He still needs to develop more, but he's a special talent worthy of a top pick.
Is the guy perfect? No. But his development the last two years has been significant, and his physical ability at the position is just about unmatched. Anyone saying this guy ain't a good QB hasn't watched him much. I've watched nearly every LSU game of his since 2004, so I've followed his development and know how far he's come and how good he is. When he first began, he was easily rattled, stared down his receiver and forced bad passes. Now, for the most part, he's as cool in the pocket as can be, spreads the ball around (three receivers each caught more than 50 passes this year), runs when he needs to and throws it away when nothing else is there. He's learned to take what is open and strike big downfield when the opportunity arises. He still needs to develop more, but he's a special talent worthy of a top pick.
dbspi
Waterboy
Actually concerned raised by Landry is valid and it has been there the last few years. I had heard this rumor last year as well. But he does have all the tools to succeed in NFL. I think he will be a great QB in the NFL for a long time.
kastofsna
Hall of Fame
i'm not a fan of his play on the field, AND when i hear those comments by chris landry, i really see that he's just not that great of a prospect. sometimes it takes more than just watching the game and saying "duhhhhh he throws the ball far" to determine if a player will be good or not. or the always stupid "duhhhh he just wins!"
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
There is a huge difference in those two corollaries. If you have played or coached in any competitive sport you should know that.
landry's take just reeks of racism.
the "heady white guy" panics in every big game, chokes and throws the ball into the hands of the "natural athletes" in the defensive backfield.
the "raw" black QB throws for more than twice the yardage, throws for touchdowns and leads his team to victory over the "heady white guy" and yet he is considered "unpolished"
i wish jamarcus russell would tell chris landry what he could "polish"
the "heady white guy" panics in every big game, chokes and throws the ball into the hands of the "natural athletes" in the defensive backfield.
the "raw" black QB throws for more than twice the yardage, throws for touchdowns and leads his team to victory over the "heady white guy" and yet he is considered "unpolished"
i wish jamarcus russell would tell chris landry what he could "polish"
R
real
Guest
I really don't like to pull the race card so fast, because I would rather give people the benefit of the doubt...
I don't know if this guy is a racist or not, but I just think there is a subconcious bias against black QB's in general...
kastofsna
Hall of Fame
oh please. landry is close to LSU and knows all about russell, certainly more than any of the people reading this message board. he's not calling him "aloof" because he's black. although if you makes you sleep better at night heywood to think that the only possible reason someone could disagree with your opinion is because they're a racist, go ahead and think that.
i'll give landry the benefit of the doubt since his comments were notably before the sugar bowl. if he watched that game and continues to spout his bull, then i'll be concerned.
kastofsna
Hall of Fame
he's not talking about his gameplay. he's talking about what he does off teh field. he's lazy, he doesn't have the NFL work ethic, he's aloof, etc. that's what he's said for a long time. and yes, he still questions his decision-making after the sugar bowl. first of all, he made a terrible decision that resulted in an interception in triple-coverage, and secondly, you can't just throw out every game he's played because of one decent bowl game. sheesh.
well it's obvious we'll disagree. ND was absolutely wiped off the field by michigan, USC and LSU, and quinn stunk it up big-time. he's yet teflon it would appear.
8 4th quater comebacks. 6 of which in the final two minutes or overtime. 7 of which against top 25 teams.
3 WRs with 50+ receptions each.
SEC academic honor roll.
I think I watch as much LSU football as Chris Landry does and in this case he doesn't know what he is talking about.
A Closer Look At Russells 4th Quarter/Overtime Comebacks
2004 Oregon State game (Tiger Stadium)
Trailing 15-7 with 1:36 to play, Russell drove the Tigers 64 yards on 4 plays, which included completions of 26 and 38 yards to Dwayne Bowe, the second of which went for a touchdown pulling the Tigers to within 15-13. Russell then tied the game with a 3-yard rush to successfully convert the 2-point attempt to tie the game at 15-15 with 33 1:05 to play. LSU went on to win the game in overtime, 22-15.
2004 Ole Miss game (Tiger Stadium)
Down 24-20 entering the fourth quarter, Russell again marched the Tigers downfield to a victory in the final stanza. Russells second comeback victory had the Tigers going 61 yards on 7 plays to take a 27-24 lead on a 7-yard run by Alley Broussard with 10:45 to play. The Tiger defense did the rest as LSU held on for a 27-24 win over the Rebels in Tiger Stadium.
2005 Arizona State game (Tempe, Ariz.)
LSU fell behind three times in the fourth quarter, but the Tigers took the lead for good on their final possession of the contest. Down 31-28 with 4:07 to play and on their own 9-yard line, Russell engineered a memorable drive, one that saw the Tigers go 91 yards on 10 plays. Down to their last chance on a 4th-and-10 situation at the ASU 39, Russell rolled out of the pocket, avoided a sack, and found Early Doucet in the endzone for what proved to be the game-winning score with 1:13 left in the contest. The Tiger defense then held off 15th-ranked Arizona State for a 35-31 victory.
2005 Florida game (Tiger Stadium)
Despite dominating the Gators for three quarters, the Tigers found themselves down 17-14, but with the ball going into the fourth quarter. On its first possession of the fourth quarter, Russell completed passes on 3rd down twice to keep the drive going and then ran 4 yards on a 4th-and-1 to keep the possession alive. Russells second 3rd-down conversion was a 31-yard strike to Dwayne Bowe, which got the ball to the Florida 12. Joseph Addai scored 2 plays later, putting the Tigers up for good, 21-17.
2005 Auburn (Tiger Stadium)
For the second time in as many weeks and the third time in 2005, Russell rallied the Tigers to a victory despite trailing in the fourth quarter. Down 17-14 with 4:52 to play, Russell completed passes of 8 and 31 yards to Dwayne Bowe, setting up a 44-yard game-tying field goal by Chris Jackson with 1:40 to play. The Tigers won the contest in overtime, 20-17.
2005 Alabama (Tuscaloosa, Ala.)
Down 10-0 at halftime, Russell rallied the Tigers to a 10-10 tie with No. 3 Alabama late in the third quarter. Russell then put the Tigers in position to win the game in regulation, but Chris Jacksons 49-yard field goal attempt sailed wide right with 54 seconds to play sending the game to overtime. In overtime, Alabama struck first, scoring on a 34-yard field goal to take a 13-10 lead. On LSUs overtime possession, Russell completed a 10-yard pass to Justin Vincent on first down, taking the ball to the Bama 15-yard line. The Tigers managed just four yards on their next two plays setting up 3rd-and-6 at Alabama 11-yard line. Russell capped the comeback for the Tigers with strike to Dwayne Bowe in the back of the endzone giving LSU a 16-13 overtime win over the Crimson Tide.
2006 Tennessee (Knoxville, Tenn.)
For the seventh time in his career, and the first time in 2006, Russell rallied the Tigers from fourth quarter deficit to win a game. Down 24-21 following a 54-yard scoring play by Tennessee, Russell and the Tigers had 80-yards in front of them and 7:23 on the clock. Russell used both his feet and his arm to lead the Tigers to this victory. Russell ran 11-yards on 2nd-and-10 at the LSU 31 to give the Tigers a first down with just over 5 minutes to play. After an incomplete pass, two 1-yard yard runs and a 5-yard penalty, the Tigers were then faced with 4th-and-8 at the UT 42-yard line with 2:15 to go. Russell calmly connected with Early Doucet for an 8-yard gain to the UT 34-yard line to keep the chains moving for the Tigers. Russell connected with Doucet for 11 more yards on LSUs next play and then following a Jacob Hester 9-yard run, the Tigers were all the way down to the UT 14-yard line. Keiland Williams picked up another first down with a 7-yard run to bring the ball to the 7-yard line. After two plays yielded 3 yards for the Tigers and with just 9 seconds left on the clock, Russell hit Doucet with a 4-yard pass to lift LSU to a 28-24 win over No. 8 Tennessee.
2006 Ole Miss (Tiger Stadium)
Trailing 20-7 late in the third quarter, Russell went to work, taking the Tigers on an 8-play , 59-yard drive to pull within 20-14 on a 4-yard TD pass to Early Doucet with 8:35 to play. After stalling at midfield on its next possession, the Tigers had one final shot as they got the ball back at their own 42-yard line with 2:35 to play. Russell again went to his feet, rushing 15-yards on first down to get the ball into Ole Miss territory. Following 2 plays that netted only 2 yards, the Tigers were again faced with 3rd-and-8 at the Ole Miss 41. Russell hit Craig Davis for a 20-yard gain and a first down at the Ole Miss 21. Russell converted on another 3rd-down situation, rushing 12 yards to the Ole Miss 5 with under a minute to play. Three consecutive incompletions left the Tigers down to their final play, with no timeouts at the Ole Miss 5-yard line. Russell, again came through, hitting Dwayne Bowe with a 5-yard pass to tie the game at 20-20 with 14 seconds to play. LSUs point-after was blocked sending the game into overtime. The Tigers won, 23-20, in overtime with a 26-yard field goal for Russells eighth come-from-behind victory.
3 WRs with 50+ receptions each.
SEC academic honor roll.
I think I watch as much LSU football as Chris Landry does and in this case he doesn't know what he is talking about.
A Closer Look At Russells 4th Quarter/Overtime Comebacks
2004 Oregon State game (Tiger Stadium)
Trailing 15-7 with 1:36 to play, Russell drove the Tigers 64 yards on 4 plays, which included completions of 26 and 38 yards to Dwayne Bowe, the second of which went for a touchdown pulling the Tigers to within 15-13. Russell then tied the game with a 3-yard rush to successfully convert the 2-point attempt to tie the game at 15-15 with 33 1:05 to play. LSU went on to win the game in overtime, 22-15.
2004 Ole Miss game (Tiger Stadium)
Down 24-20 entering the fourth quarter, Russell again marched the Tigers downfield to a victory in the final stanza. Russells second comeback victory had the Tigers going 61 yards on 7 plays to take a 27-24 lead on a 7-yard run by Alley Broussard with 10:45 to play. The Tiger defense did the rest as LSU held on for a 27-24 win over the Rebels in Tiger Stadium.
2005 Arizona State game (Tempe, Ariz.)
LSU fell behind three times in the fourth quarter, but the Tigers took the lead for good on their final possession of the contest. Down 31-28 with 4:07 to play and on their own 9-yard line, Russell engineered a memorable drive, one that saw the Tigers go 91 yards on 10 plays. Down to their last chance on a 4th-and-10 situation at the ASU 39, Russell rolled out of the pocket, avoided a sack, and found Early Doucet in the endzone for what proved to be the game-winning score with 1:13 left in the contest. The Tiger defense then held off 15th-ranked Arizona State for a 35-31 victory.
2005 Florida game (Tiger Stadium)
Despite dominating the Gators for three quarters, the Tigers found themselves down 17-14, but with the ball going into the fourth quarter. On its first possession of the fourth quarter, Russell completed passes on 3rd down twice to keep the drive going and then ran 4 yards on a 4th-and-1 to keep the possession alive. Russells second 3rd-down conversion was a 31-yard strike to Dwayne Bowe, which got the ball to the Florida 12. Joseph Addai scored 2 plays later, putting the Tigers up for good, 21-17.
2005 Auburn (Tiger Stadium)
For the second time in as many weeks and the third time in 2005, Russell rallied the Tigers to a victory despite trailing in the fourth quarter. Down 17-14 with 4:52 to play, Russell completed passes of 8 and 31 yards to Dwayne Bowe, setting up a 44-yard game-tying field goal by Chris Jackson with 1:40 to play. The Tigers won the contest in overtime, 20-17.
2005 Alabama (Tuscaloosa, Ala.)
Down 10-0 at halftime, Russell rallied the Tigers to a 10-10 tie with No. 3 Alabama late in the third quarter. Russell then put the Tigers in position to win the game in regulation, but Chris Jacksons 49-yard field goal attempt sailed wide right with 54 seconds to play sending the game to overtime. In overtime, Alabama struck first, scoring on a 34-yard field goal to take a 13-10 lead. On LSUs overtime possession, Russell completed a 10-yard pass to Justin Vincent on first down, taking the ball to the Bama 15-yard line. The Tigers managed just four yards on their next two plays setting up 3rd-and-6 at Alabama 11-yard line. Russell capped the comeback for the Tigers with strike to Dwayne Bowe in the back of the endzone giving LSU a 16-13 overtime win over the Crimson Tide.
2006 Tennessee (Knoxville, Tenn.)
For the seventh time in his career, and the first time in 2006, Russell rallied the Tigers from fourth quarter deficit to win a game. Down 24-21 following a 54-yard scoring play by Tennessee, Russell and the Tigers had 80-yards in front of them and 7:23 on the clock. Russell used both his feet and his arm to lead the Tigers to this victory. Russell ran 11-yards on 2nd-and-10 at the LSU 31 to give the Tigers a first down with just over 5 minutes to play. After an incomplete pass, two 1-yard yard runs and a 5-yard penalty, the Tigers were then faced with 4th-and-8 at the UT 42-yard line with 2:15 to go. Russell calmly connected with Early Doucet for an 8-yard gain to the UT 34-yard line to keep the chains moving for the Tigers. Russell connected with Doucet for 11 more yards on LSUs next play and then following a Jacob Hester 9-yard run, the Tigers were all the way down to the UT 14-yard line. Keiland Williams picked up another first down with a 7-yard run to bring the ball to the 7-yard line. After two plays yielded 3 yards for the Tigers and with just 9 seconds left on the clock, Russell hit Doucet with a 4-yard pass to lift LSU to a 28-24 win over No. 8 Tennessee.
2006 Ole Miss (Tiger Stadium)
Trailing 20-7 late in the third quarter, Russell went to work, taking the Tigers on an 8-play , 59-yard drive to pull within 20-14 on a 4-yard TD pass to Early Doucet with 8:35 to play. After stalling at midfield on its next possession, the Tigers had one final shot as they got the ball back at their own 42-yard line with 2:35 to play. Russell again went to his feet, rushing 15-yards on first down to get the ball into Ole Miss territory. Following 2 plays that netted only 2 yards, the Tigers were again faced with 3rd-and-8 at the Ole Miss 41. Russell hit Craig Davis for a 20-yard gain and a first down at the Ole Miss 21. Russell converted on another 3rd-down situation, rushing 12 yards to the Ole Miss 5 with under a minute to play. Three consecutive incompletions left the Tigers down to their final play, with no timeouts at the Ole Miss 5-yard line. Russell, again came through, hitting Dwayne Bowe with a 5-yard pass to tie the game at 20-20 with 14 seconds to play. LSUs point-after was blocked sending the game into overtime. The Tigers won, 23-20, in overtime with a 26-yard field goal for Russells eighth come-from-behind victory.
R
real
Guest
I don't think Quinn is that good...
The most spectacular thing about Quinn is the system he ran....other than that, I don't really see what seperates him from any other QB....IMHO, I don't think he's much better, if better at all, than a guy like Kevin Kolb...
If I were a team and I needed a QB this year, I'd probably wait until the second or third rd because none of them move me very much....
Why does it have to be either - or? I didn't really get the feeling that Landry was praising Brady Quinn all that much. Other than thinking that Quinn was a safer pick (where as Russell could be much greater than Quinn or much worse). I've seen Russell play in person twice, and on TV a few other times, and I'm not all that impressed. I think he's good, and he has a great arm, but LSU has incredible talent.
Numbers don't tell the whole, as so many David Carr critics are quick to point out. Almost all of the SEC writers have said unanimously that LSU has far and a way the most talent in the SEC. So, it is possible that some of his numbers are a result of that. I think all three quarterbacks taken early last year are safer bets than the "4 best" QB's in this draft. (please don't start talking about VY now). So, I don't think it would be a huge mistake for us to pass on him. But, if we don't, then let's coach the hell out of him.
i'm aware of kastofsna's high opinion of BQ from other threads, something i should have pointed out, yes.
yourfavoritetexan42
Waterboy
Overall I thought Brady Quinn's decisions were pretty good. Brady Quinn was a very good prospect coming out of high school, he was put right into the fire with 2 pretty bad notre dame teams, Weis came back and taught him well. I have followed Brady Quinn since day one, and his improvement is tremendous. If you wan't me to compare his playing style to one in the nfl, it really is tom brady.
Jamarcus Russel at best could be a culpepper, but I think he will become someone like Aaron Brooks.
Quinn is more nfl ready than russel.
Russel had two very good receivers, and I feel as if LSU is the most talented team year in year out, because this is how it goes down south. The educated athletes go to Texas a&m and Texas, but the ones who can't make the grades go to LSU, and usually the best athletes aren't the greatest in the classroom. I am not making a label on these players, but it is just the truth.
Jamarcus Russel at best could be a culpepper, but I think he will become someone like Aaron Brooks.
Quinn is more nfl ready than russel.
Russel had two very good receivers, and I feel as if LSU is the most talented team year in year out, because this is how it goes down south. The educated athletes go to Texas a&m and Texas, but the ones who can't make the grades go to LSU, and usually the best athletes aren't the greatest in the classroom. I am not making a label on these players, but it is just the truth.
yourfavoritetexan42
Waterboy
seriously, yall need to get off kolbs nuts...ive watched him many times this season.
He is a pretty good on a bad team. He makes stupid decisions, and when he faces a good defense, he just can't make plays. His mechanics are average, his awareness is decent, he doesn't have that "it" factor whatsoever, and David Carr coming out of college was 100x better, and David Carr is much better than Kolb ever would be in our system.
Quit hoping for some hometown hero to come resurrect our franchise.
R
real
Guest
kastofsna
Hall of Fame
it's all relative of course. if the offense you're operating relies on a passing game where receivers make seperation against defenders and finds the open spots on the field, you're not going to be successful if your receivers can't do that. quinn rarely makes bad decisons. in all of those games, there's a pretty common them: no one's open. how many times against LSU and USC did he have to scramble around and throw out of the pocket, or take an unnecessary sack?
i doubt you do, and i doubt you know more about what you're watching than landry. and besides, landry is most concerned with his behavior in relation to how he prepares for the game and his training habits. although he certainly has had reason for concern about his playing abilities, and rightfully so.Champ said:
Yet, Russell's offensive coordinator rejects all of those claims, and says JaMarcus is a leader who understands the game like a coach. Who are you to believe? How would fans know that Russell is lazy or aloof? It really doesnt add merit to the discussion.
The best way to judge a player is by what you see on the field. Russell has a tremendous arm, is very accurate, and has improved every season. leachmtb made a good point concerning LSU's talent around Russell. To take advantage of his ability in the NFL, a team will need to give JaMarcus WRs who can make plays down the field and an o-line to protect him. Otherwise, his talent is wasted. Just because he will need that support doesn't make Russell a bad prospect. QBs can't be evaluated in a vacuum.
kastofsna
Hall of Fame
i'll take what his very own OC said with a grain of salt. i mean...what else would he say? and this isn't a "fan" who says he's lazy and aloof, it's chris landry, who's as close to the LSU situation as anyone. he's followed his whole career. i know he worked under nick saban, not sure if he was there when russell was recruited or not.
as i've said before, aside from a very strong arm, there's nothing remarkable about his game. considering his own abilities and the talent of those around him, his resume should look like matt leinart's. he's an underachiever. and not a great decision-maker. he doesn't really have any authority behind his passes. i just see a guy going through the motions out there.
I don't even know what that's supposed to mean.
Chris Landry is "as close to the LSU situation as anyone"? As close as the offensive coordinator? "What else would he say?" If Fisher really believed what Landry said about Russell, he could have just kept his mouth shut and said nothing. Instead, he went out on a limb to praise Russell.
So you mean to say the ceiling on Russell is:
4717 yds, 69.2%, 39 TDs/11 INTs and a 110 QB rating.
Sign me up. Daunte had like a 95 career QB rating pre-injury.
Comparing him to Aaron Brooks makes little sense, as Russell isn't really a runner. They both have big arms and Brooks has been known for bad decision making if that's what you mean, but I don't know that their games are very similar. I think the ceiling on Russell is 2000-2004 Culpepper minus the rushing (still pretty darn good). A probable career is a less statue-like Drew Bledsoe or Jeff George (not as bad as most recall).
Well doubting and knowing are two different things. I find it intresting that you selected one sentence out of my post to comment on and yet failed to address the rest of it. Which tells me I'm right in having my own doubts about you knowing what you're talking about.
And if you're so considred about what scouts in Louisiana who watch JaMarcus have to say why don't you talk to Mike Detillier. He's seems to have a different view of Russell than Landry.
kastofsna
Hall of Fame
i didn't address the rest of it because it's not relevant to my main points regarding his off-the-field behavior.
lots of scouts have different opinions than landry. i just happen to agree with landry. and he knows the more intimate details more than detillier, who i like.
eriadoc
Texan-American
I'd be interested to hear other scouts' comments regarding Russell. It sounds like to me Landry has an axe to grind, though I don't know anything about Landry to say that for certain. When VY scored poorly on his test, multiple people lined up on both sides of the issue to lend their comments. No one aside from Landry and his coach have really said much about Russell, aside from commenting on what Russell's done on the field. What he's done on the field is impressive, by any measure.
kastofsna
Hall of Fame
he's just questioning his dedication and work ethic. simple enough.
bad
Waterboy
I've heard JaMarcus Russell can throw a football 90 yards in a vacuum.
sprtsfanatic
Veteran
I dont know who that was directed towards, but just to state it out plain and simple...I like Russell and would be ecstatic if he fell to us at the 8 spot. I'm not a scout nor in a profession where I can give out direct opinions and try to state them as facts on football players so I dont try to. I make my opinions on players and keep them to myself. I ask for more information or something to atleast compare to incase there is some info out there that I have not seen and make/change my opinion accordingly.
Like I said before I like what I've seen from Russell and think he's the real deal. Just not sure what I would do with the 8th pick considering our needs, our money situation, carr's contract, and the FO's man crush on carr.
On another note: very good point...never thought about they guy possibly working for the texans....dont know why that never entered my mind...but it didnt...lets hope he doesnt cause I like what I see from J.R., but also am drooling over branch and ofcourse peterson too.