Wish to make a one time donation? Make it here.

NFL.com saying Texans signed Vernon Hargreaves

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Being an "aggressive GM" doesnt constitue success just look at the Dallas Cowboys and Jerry Jones.


Nah just the one who has shown many instances of quit, and this clip was probably the last straw, but I get it .. find any reason to defend the new guy and hope that he figures it out here.

I hate quitters.

But if anyone on this staff can bring out the best in the reclamation projects I would say it would be Romeo, he's probably the best coordinator on the staff, so I will give him the same amount of space as I did Conley (who only because has had 1 good game is by no means "there") I'll file this under "to be determined".

Stockpiling 1st round busts doesnt exactly add up to ONE GOOD PLAYER .. its just more of the same - HOPE.
There is a fine line between being aggressive and being willing to get ripped off.
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
My understanding, and I could be wrong, is it has to be a major, may not come back type of injury.
Ok. My concern is he goes out there and pulls a Will Fuller and then we have to pay his 2020 salary. Probably isn’t the case.

I imagine if he fits than he will have to readjust that contract.
 

Double Barrel

Moderator
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Being an "aggressive GM" doesnt constitue success just look at the Dallas Cowboys and Jerry Jones.


Nah just the one who has shown many instances of quit, and this clip was probably the last straw, but I get it .. find any reason to defend the new guy and hope that he figures it out here.

I hate quitters.

But if anyone on this staff can bring out the best in the reclamation projects I would say it would be Romeo, he's probably the best coordinator on the staff, so I will give him the same amount of space as I did Conley (who only because has had 1 good game is by no means "there") I'll file this under "to be determined".

Stockpiling 1st round busts doesnt exactly add up to ONE GOOD PLAYER .. its just more of the same - HOPE.
I want to be hopeful about the guy, but my cynicism has proven time and time again that when something seems too good to be true, it usually is too good to be true.

And all signs point to it being too good to be true. 1st rounder cut for consistent lack of effort and 30 other teams not interested? Yeah, I'm going to believe that there are reasons for that.

I'll give the Texans FO some small credit for at least kicking some tires, but that's what teams that trade away future draft picks need to do.
 

dream_team

All Pro
Gaine was not aggressive at all. Maybe he would have been later or maybe that was just his style. Judging by his previous history and that we spent less of the cap space under him than under any other GM, something like 92% vs average of 98%, I'd say it was more his style. RS was more aggressive if he felt like the player was truly worth it IE Watson and Osweiler, but if he didn't think the player or even position was worth it then he tended not to put as much effort into it. I'll say this it would be very easy for BoB to just focus on O and tell RAC to figure it out but he seems to be making just as much effort to help out the D as he can as well. The last what, three moves have been to help the D.

BoB has fully bought into the "win now" mode and frankly so far it seems to be paying off. If we win against the Ravens it will have really paid off because then the 2nd seed will be ours to lose. I'm not sure how sustainable all these moves are long term but then that's the whole point of win now is you don't care about long term and frankly it has made this season more fun than I thought it would be with our schedule.
True about Gaine. He was just here for such a little time to get a sense of his "style". To be fair, though, it did sound like Gaine wanted to extend Clowney... so maybe that's why the large cap space? RS was selectively aggressive, which is what you want IMO. He wasn't always selectively correct, though. BOB definitely is in "win now" mode, which I understand. He probably senses his job is on the hot-seat, which it should be.

I think we were one of the safest, dullest, milquetoast teams out there when it came to almost everything, certainly to include acquiring on-field talent. They've made a small handful of semi-bold moves over the previous 15+ seasons, but rarely stood out, and in any event those were isolated moved within an overall nice safe, plain vanilla wrapper.

There's no doubt in my mind, there's been a sea change since young Mr. McNair has taken the reins. It's rather unexpected TBH. I figured Daddy would have rubbed off on Jr. a lot more than he did apparently. I mean we can go over the laundry list since Cal has taken over but I'd like to think we both know there's been a seismic shift in the way this team is run off the field. It's dramatic. It's dynamic. And this team is loads more fun and interesting to observe and watch since Cal has taken over. Whether it's a long term success remains to be seen, but for once this team is interesting as hell to follow.
We were always a "build through the draft" team. Whether you find that dull or interesting is on you. Teams that were splashy in the offseason are rarely successful.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
True about Gaine. He was just here for such a little time to get a sense of his "style". To be fair, though, it did sound like Gaine wanted to extend Clowney... so maybe that's why the large cap space? RS was selectively aggressive, which is what you want IMO. He wasn't always selectively correct, though. BOB definitely is in "win now" mode, which I understand. He probably senses his job is on the hot-seat, which it should be.



We were always a "build through the draft" team. Whether you find that dull or interesting is on you. Teams that were splashy in the offseason are rarely successful.

Spot on
 
I want to be hopeful about the guy, but my cynicism has proven time and time again that when something seems too good to be true, it usually is too good to be true.

And all signs point to it being too good to be true. 1st rounder cut for consistent lack of effort and 30 other teams not interested? Yeah, I'm going to believe that there are reasons for that.

I'll give the Texans FO some small credit for at least kicking some tires, but that's what teams that trade away future draft picks need to do.
To be fair we don't know that any other teams weren't interested. Texans signed him pretty fast after he was cut so it could be that for once they were just ahead of the curve for better or worse. I know the very idea of the Texans being ahead of the league is something that goes against everything we know to be true but given how little is usually told about what offers came from who its very easy to say no one else was interested even if other teams actually were.

Here's the thing, the more I look at it the more I believe this is about as safe a kick the tires type deal as you can get mid season. We have the cap space to cover him this year and plenty of time to decide if we want to cut him before he really costs us next year. Only real risk is if he gets a major injury then we are on the hook for it but injury is a risk for any player at anytime. The lack of effort concerns me but at the same time he is coming to a team considered a contender with two coaches that, for all their faults, players don't quite on and play hard for. Honestly the only person that might could get something out of him that BoB or RAC couldn't is Belichick.
 
True about Gaine. He was just here for such a little time to get a sense of his "style". To be fair, though, it did sound like Gaine wanted to extend Clowney... so maybe that's why the large cap space? RS was selectively aggressive, which is what you want IMO. He wasn't always selectively correct, though. BOB definitely is in "win now" mode, which I understand. He probably senses his job is on the hot-seat, which it should be.

We were always a "build through the draft" team. Whether you find that dull or interesting is on you. Teams that were splashy in the offseason are rarely successful.
See and I've heard the opposite that Gaine didn't want to sign Clowney to a big money deal and that's why he was dragging his feet and ended up tagging him. Of course I've also heard that he didn't resign him because he was shopping him out but no one was buying and of course the always classic that they didn't resign him because BoB wanted him gone. Either way I don't believe they were saving the cap space for Clowney because frankly Clowney wasn't and isn't worth that kind of cap space. He play in Seattle this year has shown that.
 

dream_team

All Pro
To be fair we don't know that any other teams weren't interested. Texans signed him pretty fast after he was cut so it could be that for once they were just ahead of the curve for better or worse. I know the very idea of the Texans being ahead of the league is something that goes against everything we know to be true but given how little is usually told about what offers came from who its very easy to say no one else was interested even if other teams actually were.
He was claimed off waivers, and I heard on 610 the Texans were the ONLY team put a claim on him. So we were definitely the most interested in him.
 

dream_team

All Pro
See and I've heard the opposite that Gaine didn't want to sign Clowney to a big money deal and that's why he was dragging his feet and ended up tagging him. Of course I've also heard that he didn't resign him because he was shopping him out but no one was buying and of course the always classic that they didn't resign him because BoB wanted him gone. Either way I don't believe they were saving the cap space for Clowney because frankly Clowney wasn't and isn't worth that kind of cap space. He play in Seattle this year has shown that.
It's a bunch of hearsay at this point, so not sure what is true. I'm pretty sure it was 610 where I heard Gaine wanted to extend Clowney, which is where he was mid-aligned with the rest of the org.

BTW, there's what Clowney wants and what Clowney will get. Everyone wants to be the top paid guy, doesn't mean they'll get it. Clowney won't get Mack money, but I do think he's having a better season than a lot of people in here think.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
No Gipson love? I prefer keeping Reid at FS, I don't think he has the body to stay healthy at SS.

I'm tempering my expectations on Hargreaves. There has to be a reason why the Bucs released him and the Texans were the ONLY team to put a waiver claim on him. My realistic expectations for him is our 5th corner when everyone is healthy. I don't see him passing JJo, Roby, LJ, and Conley on the depth chart.
I agree but Jajo and Roby could be gone next year
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
He was always a man CB, but used as a cover/off by TB. Crennel will probably give him a chance to show his skill.
So the same situation as the other CB we recently picked up by using a 3rd round pick to acquire from the Raiders: primarily a man background but a fish out of water in the NFL.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
I want to be hopeful about the guy, but my cynicism has proven time and time again that when something seems too good to be true, it usually is too good to be true.

And all signs point to it being too good to be true. 1st rounder cut for consistent lack of effort and 30 other teams not interested? Yeah, I'm going to believe that there are reasons for that.

I'll give the Texans FO some small credit for at least kicking some tires, but that's what teams that trade away future draft picks need to do.

I have made quite a few mistakes throughout my life, especially when I was in my early 20's. I was able to capitalize on the second chances that were given to me. Now I'm more humbled and a lot more wiser in several areas in my life. So hopefully the youngster will take full advantage of this great opportunity that's being handed to him by our Texans.
 
Last edited:

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I want to be hopeful about the guy, but my cynicism has proven time and time again that when something seems too good to be true, it usually is too good to be true.

And all signs point to it being too good to be true. 1st rounder cut for consistent lack of effort and 30 other teams not interested? Yeah, I'm going to believe that there are reasons for that.

I'll give the Texans FO some small credit for at least kicking some tires, but that's what teams that trade away future draft picks need to do.
Teams that don't trade away picks need to do this too
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Nah just the one who has shown many instances of quit, and this clip was probably the last straw, but I get it .. find any reason to defend the new guy and hope that he figures it out here.
I'm not defending anyone. Just saying. I saw a lot of, "not my job" business decisions being made.

He's a Texans now, we don't have a first round pick in the next two drafts, so yeah, I'm hoping this works out as away to add 1st round talent to the roster.

If it doesn't, no sweat off my back. I just hope we don't commit that 5th year option to him before finding out what we got.

Stockpiling 1st round busts doesnt exactly add up to ONE GOOD PLAYER .. its just more of the same - HOPE
About the same hope of hitting on a 1st round pick in the draft, or trying to find comparable talent in the third round
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
We were always a "build through the draft" team. Whether you find that dull or interesting is on you. Teams that were splashy in the offseason are rarely successful.
[/QUOTE]

Where did the build through the draft basically only get them?

You dont like the new aggressive approach. I'll bet that you're an Aggie or atleast one at heart.
 

powda

You forgot the briefcase!
We were always a "build through the draft" team. Whether you find that dull or interesting is on you. Teams that were splashy in the offseason are rarely successful.
Where did the build through the draft basically only get them?

You dont like the new aggressive approach. I'll bet that you're an Aggie or atleast one at heart.
[/QUOTE]

Building through the draft only works if a team nails picks. Casserly and Rick saw to it we didn't. I know you know this. Just stating the obvious...
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I'm not defending anyone. Just saying. I saw a lot of, "not my job" business decisions being made.

He's a Texans now, we don't have a first round pick in the next two drafts, so yeah, I'm hoping this works out as away to add 1st round talent to the roster.

If it doesn't, no sweat off my back. I just hope we don't commit that 5th year option to him before finding out what we got.



About the same hope of hitting on a 1st round pick in the draft, or trying to find comparable talent in the third round
Yep, UR declares them busts and they're busts. Maybe an upgrade in coaching could bring out their potential. Nah, not a chance. (Sarcasm///)

I believe in RAC and him getting the best out of these guys.
 
Last edited:

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Being an "aggressive GM" doesnt constitue success just look at the Dallas Cowboys and Jerry Jones.




Stockpiling 1st round busts doesnt exactly add up to ONE GOOD PLAYER .. its just more of the same - HOPE.
What else is there?
 

dream_team

All Pro
Where did the build through the draft basically only get them?

You dont like the new aggressive approach. I'll bet that you're an Aggie or atleast one at heart.
I didn't specify one approach was better than the other, but I do believe being super aggressive is typically a short-term approach. Building through draft is tougher, but is better for long-term success.

I'm all for whatever brings a championship to Houston, even if it's a one & done and we crash and burn the following several seasons. I understand no matter what approach you take, it's extremely difficult to win it all.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Found this very detailed article re. Hargreave's release.

***************************************************

Why the Bucs released Vernon Hargreaves
Rick Stroud: He didn’t hustle and they didn’t want to be hustled

By Rick Stroud
Published Nov. 12

TAMPA — This was about accountability. It was also about accounting.
Neither really worked in favor of Vernon Hargreaves remaining with the Bucs.
The 11th overall pick in the 2016 draft from the University of Florida was waived on Tuesday morning. It came two days after Bucs coach Bruce Arians benched Hargreaves in the third quarter of Tampa Bay’s 30-27 win over Arizona for not hustling to make a tackle on what became a 55-yard catch and run by Cardinals receiver Andy Isabella.

“There’s no argument,” said Hargreaves, who later re-entered the game. “I need to hustle. Point blank, end of discussion. I’ll get better. I’m sure I’ll talk with them this week and get things straight and see where we’re going.’’

That talk came Tuesday morning at the team’s training facility with general manager Jason Licht and Arians.
https://twitter.com/TBTimes_Sports
“After thoughtful consideration over the past few weeks, Bruce and I came to the conclusion that we needed to make this change,” Licht in a statement Tuesday. “Decisions such as this are always difficult, but I felt it was in the best interest of our team to part ways with Vernon at this time and allow him to explore other opportunities. We are disappointed that it did not work out here for Vernon and we wish him continued success moving forward.”
Every time you think decisions are made in the best interest of the team, remember the NFL is a big business.

The Bucs had picked up the fifth-year option on Hargreaves contract in 2020 for about $9-million which was only guaranteed against injury.

Once it was decided that Hargreaves was no longer a part of their future, the Bucs had to protect themselves from having to potentially shell out that kind of money next season for a player they no longer wanted.

And remember, injuries derailed two of Hargreaves’ previous three seasons.
Yes, this is a very bad look for the Bucs and Licht. The only remaining player from the Bucs’ 2016 draft class is cornerback Ryan Smith, who went in for Hargreaves Sunday and immediately gave up a 69-yard touchdown pass from quarterback Kyler Murray to Christian Kirk.

Of course, that was the draft where the Bucs traded up to the second round for Florida State kicker Roberto Aguayo, who was out of football within a year. Hargreaves is the fourth player to be released from that 2016 class this year.

The Bucs cut defensive end Noah Spence, a second-round pick, before the season began. After Week 1, they said goodbye to tackle Caleb Benenoch, their fifth-round pick. And during last month’s bye week, they waived linebacker Devante Bond before the league suspended him four games for using performance-enhancing drugs. Tight end Danny Vitale is a fullback for the Packers.
The Bucs also have to take responsibility for Hargreaves’ failure.

At Florida and Wharton High School in Tampa, Hargreaves was known as a ball hawk. But he thrived in man-to-man coverage. The Bucs drafted him to play in the zone scheme of then defensive coordinator Mike Smith.

When Hargreaves arrived at minicamp and began work in the offseason, the Bucs crossed trained him at two positions. They wanted him to learn how to not only play cornerback but also move inside and cover the slot receiver.

THE REST OF THE STORY
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
So if he gets injured this year, are the Texans on the hook for the 2020 salary?
Being waived, the Bucs are not responsible for any more contract money since he has already already collected all of his guaranteed money by the beginning of the 2019 season. The Bucs are not responsible the for 2020................and Texans are responsible only for whatever new contract they agree to with Haregreaves...........it may not even be guaranteed for injury if they choose to set it up that way.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Building through the draft only works if a team nails picks. Casserly and Rick saw to it we didn't. I know you know this. Just stating the obvious...
I'm not disagreeing with you about Casserly or Smith, but coaching has a lot to do with it as well. Bill Belichick is going to make someone a star. He'll eventually go to another team, get paid a lot of money, then disappear.
 

Hookem Horns

Administrator
Staff member
Listening to our local sports station and one of the Bucs insiders this afternoon. Apparently JPP and VH got into it in the locker room after the Seattle loss. VH was allegedly talking and joking about white girls in the locker room after the game. JPP lit into him for apparently not caring about losing and being more concerned about white girls. This carried over into last week's game vs the Cardinals.

They showed JPP on TV losing it on the sidelines after a defensive series. This was apparently due to VH's lack of effort and consistently being out of place. According to the insider, these events are what got the ball rolling to shipping him out of town.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Zero risk? are you guys reading and comprehending what kind of cancer this guy was for Tampa Bay? They didnt even TRY to trade him, when MAYBE they could have picked up a 6th or 7th rounder (Hell IM surprised they didnt try to fleece BOB for one of the few picks he has left!) anywho where there is smoke there is fire.

My biggest concern is that the quality of person we are getting. His play is horrible, but it didnt cost any assets. Is he going to come in here and start worrying about all the 'white girls' that are running around or is he going to lock in on a possible championship run?
 

TexanNBigD

Practice Squad
Zero risk? are you guys reading and comprehending what kind of cancer this guy was for Tampa Bay? They didnt even TRY to trade him, when MAYBE they could have picked up a 6th or 7th rounder (Hell IM surprised they didnt try to fleece BOB for one of the few picks he has left!) anywho where there is smoke there is fire.

My biggest concern is that the quality of person we are getting. His play is horrible, but it didnt cost any assets. Is he going to come in here and start worrying about all the 'white girls' that are running around or is he going to lock in on a possible championship run?
Yes, zero risk because the locker should have enough presence to deal with a punk attitude. If the locker room cannot than we have other issues than on the field.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Yes, zero risk because the locker should have enough presence to deal with a punk attitude. If the locker room cannot than we have other issues than on the field.
oh oK, since you put it that way now it all makes sense! Hmmm I wonder if Antonio Brown would look good in a Texan uniform? He'd be a lot better player than anything we've recently acquired and he wouldnt cost much either.
 

Double Barrel

Moderator
Staff member
Contributor's Club
30 other teams apparently do not have the same DB needs we do is all that says.
Watch more football than just Texans games. OL and secondary is always needed by a lot of teams.

The Texans are throwing the dice, I get it. I don't have a problem with it if he doesn't become a locker room cancer. That said, I'm not some homer that acts like the Texans have some golden insight that nobody else has. Quitting on the field is a foundational character issue that many coaches will not tolerate. He won't be here long if it's his M.O.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Being waived, the Bucs are not responsible for any more contract money since he has already already collected all of his guaranteed money by the beginning of the 2019 season. The theare not responsible the for 2020................and Texans are responsible only for whatever new contract they agree to with Haregreaves...........it may not even be guaranteed for injury if they choose to set it up that way.
The only complicating factor is that the Bucs extended him the 5th year option (guaranteed for injury only) and the texans will have to renegotiate by 2020 or release him to FA and probably get something like a 4th round compensatory pick.
 

House of Pain

Knee-jerkless
Stockpiling 1st round busts doesnt exactly add up to ONE GOOD PLAYER .. its just more of the same - HOPE.
You watch this team like I do (I assume you've been watching them) and I know you've seen all the issues in their secondary over the last couple of years. What would you suggest they do? Pick up more street FAs? Start poking around in the CFL or XFL talent pool? At this point in the season, you can only try to improve your team with what is available. This does not excuse the lack of talent in the position up until this point.
 

Texaninlild

Veteran
The only complicating factor is that the Bucs extended him the 5th year option (guaranteed for injury only) and the texans will have to renegotiate by 2020 or release him to FA and probably get something like a 4th round compensatory pick.
So worst case is we end up with a 4th Rd Comp pick for nothing more than putting him on our roster? What is the downside? If he is a turd in the punch bowl just flush him down.
 

Texaninlild

Veteran
Watch more football than just Texans games. OL and secondary is always needed by a lot of teams.

The Texans are throwing the dice, I get it. I don't have a problem with it if he doesn't become a locker room cancer. That said, I'm not some homer that acts like the Texans have some golden insight that nobody else has. Quitting on the field is a foundational character issue that many coaches will not tolerate. He won't be here long if it's his M.O.
Again Reward > Risk
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
O'Brien's seat is not even warm right now. He's got a contract through 2022 and has full control of football operations. I have not read ANY sources throughout the sports media even remotely suggesting that Cal has O'Brien nervous about his job. That's just silly talk.
Yep that makes sense DB but one thing I wonder about in regards to Cal McNair ?
I'm still of the mind that Cal is somewhat of an unknown quantity after his surprise dismissal of GM Brian Gain earlier this year.
And then the aggressive but ill advised pursuit of New England execute Nick Caserio, followed by the announcement that O'Brien
would the organizations HC-GM. So a lot has happened to the Texans organization under the brief tenure of Cal McNair.
Short of announcing the team is going on the market which would not be completely out of left field given the recent passing of the founder, can't think of too many bigger events that could happen so do we really know how secure O'Brien job is ?
 

TheKDog

Hall of Fame
Sounds like a low risk high reward way to get talent and or comp picks to me...
I don't think they are eligible for a comp pick if they release him.

Also since his option was picked up then the Texans will be on the hook for $9million next year if he gets hurt.

And it's unlikely he's good enough to be worth paying $9m so he's a rental
 

powda

You forgot the briefcase!
I don't think they are eligible for a comp pick if they release him.

Also since his option was picked up then the Texans will be on the hook for $9million next year if he gets hurt.

And it's unlikely he's good enough to be worth paying $9m so he's a rental
Were contract details released when we signed him? Why would we be obligated to follow through on another team's contract AFTER the player was cut?

Why would a mid season free agent acquisition be different than a normal off season free agent? Contracts were never my (matt) forte. What am I missing?
 
If he's an ahole in the locker room, they'll just cut him. Chances are he's going to be on his best behavior given he just got cut in part for lack of hustle/being an ahole to his teammates. If he isn't any good, they cut him after the season and get a comp pick.

Low risk, high reward.
 

powda

You forgot the briefcase!
If he isn't any good, they cut him after the season and get a comp pick.

Low risk, high reward.


That doesn't read like we're on the hook for a 5th year option or 9mil injury guaranteed next year. Just 900k this year.

This is a solid move. Roby's on a 1 year deal so if he bolts we're in play with Vernon. If we dont like him we dont CUT him. We low ball him so he signs elsewhere. Only then I believe is there any chance for a comp pick.

At best I think the comp pick would be a 6 or 7 - it depends on his playing time etc.
 


Top