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Next OL Coach: George Warhop

House of Pain

Wild Speculator
Texans fans have to be schizophrenic. Within the span of a month or two we've gone from fans complaining that "the coach can't even bring in his own staff! He's a puppet!" to "the coach is hiring his own staff, but they're no good!"

I know very little about position coaches in the NFL but I do know that not every coaching situation is the same. It's totally possible for a position coach to be a bad fit for one team and a perfect fit for another. Maybe running a system were all the coaches are buying into the same things and have a GM that can give them the players they need to make their system(s) work may help?

Jeez guys, let him pick his staff and if they suck, he's gone...and probably Nick is gone too. Then we will be exactly where some of you want us: Daniel C. McNasty up there at the podium, picking a new GM and telling us that everything we've witnessed since the Texans inception is going to change. Y'all are wild.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
What I dont like about the edge guys at 1-3 is that Ilike Jermaine Johnson more than Htch/Thibs.
Remember Robert Gallery? He was cant miss. Luke Joekel was also. Eric Fischer was on his way to being a bust until KC coaches made him serviceable. I'm not saying I'm against Neal, but their dline and defense is closer to being top half than the offense. Plus, Tunsil is a pro bowl level LT. Howard actually played well when he was left alone at LT. Now if they think Neal is a all pro type of player, draft him and move Tunsil if possible. I think the 2 guards, scheme, and playcalling were bigger issues
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Remember Robert Gallery? He was cant miss. Luke Joekel was also. Eric Fischer was on his way to being a bust until KC coaches made him serviceable. I'm not saying I'm against Neal, but their dline and defense is closer to being top half than the offense. Plus, Tunsil is a pro bowl level LT. Howard actually played well when he was left alone at LT. Now if they think Neal is a all pro type of player, draft him and move Tunsil if possible. I think the 2 guards, scheme, and playcalling were bigger issues
I also remember Orlando Pace, Boselli, Walter Jones, Anthony Munoz, Tarik Glenn, Trent Williams, Tyran Smirh etc... I can point out many more successful high draft picks than busts.

Howard is avg at best.
 
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leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
I also remember Orlando Pace, Boselli, Walter Jones, Anthony Munoz, Tarik Glenn, Trent Williams, Tyran Smirh etc... I can point out many more successful high draft than busts.

Howard is avg at best.
My point being, there are no absolutes when drafting a 22 yr old. If they draft Neal, I hope he's a hall of fame caliber player. Really, the bar is so low, I hope he's at least good. You say Howard is avg, but nobody has made progress under Kelly or gotten better under BOB. Even a pro caliber player like Tunsil has regressed or looked avg since being in this system. If all the players in a particular goes backwards, then the common denominator tells the truth. We know from his history that Lovie know how to develop defensive players. If given the choice I would prefer Lovie with a stud. Jmo
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
My point being, there are no absolutes when drafting a 22 yr old. If they draft Neal, I hope he's a hall of fame caliber player. Really, the bar is so low, I hope he's at least good. You say Howard is avg, but nobody has made progress under Kelly or gotten better under BOB. Even a pro caliber player like Tunsil has regressed or looked avg since being in this system. If all the players in a particular goes backwards, then the common denominator tells the truth. We know from his history that Lovie know how to develop defensive players. If given the choice I would prefer Lovie with a stud. Jmo
True there are no absolutes. But high OL picks are successful far more often than not. Where we disagree is I want atleast 2 new high draft picks on the OL to help the run game and help protect Mills, so they can find out what they've got in Mills. Finding this out is very important to the future of the team.

I really want them to go BPA. I dont have Hutch/Thibs in my top 3. Why do you want Caserio to go defense at 1-3 and who do you like at 1-3? Do you also want Caserio to go defense at 2-37.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
True there are no absolutes. But high OL picks are successful far more often than not. Where we disagree is I want atleast 2 new high draft picks on the OL to help the run game and help protect Mills, so they can find out what they've got in Mills. Finding this out is very important to the future of the team.

I really want them to go BPA. I dont have Hutch/Thibs in my top 3. Why do you want Caserio to go defense at 1-3 and who do you like at 1-3? Do you also want Caserio to go defense at 2-37.
I think they should make 1 side elevated. They defense is closer to being a top unit vs the offense. If he gets either Thibs or Hutchinson, that unit can be middle of the pack. The offense needs playmaker. Cincy has shown having playmaker can offset line play if your qb is that dude. I think the interior of their line need more help than the edges
 

Carr Bombed

Hall of Fame
As long as the OL doesn't play dirty and bitchmade. Better add a ton of talent.
Can you please elaborate on dirty?

..Just because the last time this team had a adequate Oline that was highly regarded all I heard from divisional rivals was how dirty they were..

These were lines coached by Alex Gibbs and Jon Benton.. only time this team's line was worth a damn.
 
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xtruroyaltyx

Hall of Fame
I’ll wait and see what the line looks like but I’m not a big fan of what I’m hearing so far.

Texans needs a Technician on staff. Since Kubiak and his staff left the online Technique has been going downhill rapidly

OL technique was absolutely trash under Devlin. I have no idea how it was last season since I only watched maybe 3 combined quarters of Texans football.

If the Olines footwork and technique is poor I don’t care how mean and nasty they are, it won’t matter.

Or they need to just draft OL high that come from good programs and already have great fundamentals and understand steps and angles footwork and hand placement.

That’s why I want Linderbaum. Trade up to get him if needed. I know he understand the importance of technique.

Either way, online can’t be neglected
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I think they should make 1 side elevated. They defense is closer to being a top unit vs the offense. If he gets either Thibs or Hutchinson, that unit can be middle of the pack. The offense needs playmaker. Cincy has shown having playmaker can offset line play if your qb is that dude. I think the interior of their line need more help than the edges
Even Cincy runs for more than 3.0 per carry. Guys like Chase don't grow on trees.
 
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thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
We’ve wasted so much offensive talent in Houston. I’m not against drafting OL, but I haven’t seen anything to make me think a bonafide #1 overall generational LT (or a Laremy Tunsil) won’t be wasted.

I feel much more confident that premium defensive talent will have the most impact on this team.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
Even Cincy runs for more than 3.0 per carry. Guys like Chase don't grow on trees.
They don't have 30 yr old running backs and Mixon wasn't taken off their board because he had a college incident. Again, not 1 linemen got better under BOB and Devlin leadership no matter who they had especially young players. You stated Jones was avg, but for some reason he rated pretty good in Tennessee. Brooks left and became a high end player also. Duane Brown still playing at a high level. Meanwhile Sio Fulo, Martin, Davenport, Sharpering, and to a degree Howard haven't even been decent. You have to look at the source/system.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
They don't have 30 yr old running backs and Mixon wasn't taken off their board because he had a college incident. Again, not 1 linemen got better under BOB and Devlin leadership no matter who they had especially young players. You stated Jones was avg, but for some reason he rated pretty good in Tennessee. Brooks left and became a high end player also. Duane Brown still playing at a high level. Meanwhile Sio Fulo, Martin, Davenport, Sharpering, and to a degree Howard haven't even been decent. You have to look at the source/system.
I don't necessarily disagree with you.

But the reason the Bengals can get away with having a below avg ol is they've got Burrow and the best overall skill position set in the NFL.. The Texans have none of this.

BTW, Burrow won't last if they don't upgrade the ol. I'm surprised he made it through this season. If he hadn't he would've been labeled injury prone, through no fault of his own.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
We’ve wasted so much offensive talent in Houston. I’m not against drafting OL, but I haven’t seen anything to make me think a bonafide #1 overall generational LT (or a Laremy Tunsil) won’t be wasted.

I feel much more confident that premium defensive talent will have the most impact on this team.
Pretty much. I'm pretty sure if he got his hands on a defensive stud, he will be more than fine according to his history.
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
I don't necessarily disagree with you.

But the reason the Bengals can get away with having a below avg ol is they've got Burrow and the best overall skill position set in the NFL.. The Texans have none of this.

BTW, Burrow won't last if they don't upgrade the ol. I'm surprised he made it through this season. If he hadn't he would've been labeled injury prone, through no fault of his own.
No argument, but Watson was getting sacked alot and the Texans were ok at running the ball with a below avg line and was very,very productive. A quality, young rb will help the run game alot. Another wr will help alot also. Neither of these teams are regarded as having A+ oline play. LA is probably at best B- and Cincy is C- or D. By the way, Cincy has some high draft picks on that line also.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
No argument, but Watson was getting sacked alot and the Texans were ok at running the ball with a below avg line and was very,very productive. A quality, young rb will help the run game alot. Another wr will help alot also. Neither of these teams are regarded as having A+ oline play. LA is probably at best B- and Cincy is C- or D. By the way, Cincy has some high draft picks on that line also.
Derrick also has Hopkins/WFV to throw the ball too and Miller ran for over 1,000 yds behind the ol.
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
We’ve wasted so much offensive talent in Houston. I’m not against drafting OL, but I haven’t seen anything to make me think a bonafide #1 overall generational LT (or a Laremy Tunsil) won’t be wasted.

I feel much more confident that premium defensive talent will have the most impact on this team.
Every so often I have to jump in to support trading down. Trading down from our #3 spot to approx mid-round would gain us maybe as much as 1200 points, which is equivalent to another #2 and another #3, this year and another #2 & #3 next year. My preference for a mid-round selection first remains the best OG on the board. But then with our extra 2 & 3's, split these picks between offense and defense.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
No argument, but Watson was getting sacked alot and the Texans were ok at running the ball with a below avg line and was very,very productive. A quality, young rb will help the run game alot. Another wr will help alot also. Neither of these teams are regarded as having A+ oline play. LA is probably at best B- and Cincy is C- or D. By the way, Cincy has some high draft picks on that line also.
Just a better play caller would help our run game. With our offensive staff we had no consistent option for the run game.

I remember two games where they employed a quick passing game out of bunch formations that made it hard for the defense to cover all three guys. But that’s all we saw of it.

We saw a couple of games where we stretched the OL & David Johnson looked like a RB. We saw Rex Burkhead look like a featured back, one game.

if they could just find a way to mix those elements with the normal passing offense, our hurry up offense, all in one game, every game the run game would have been better.

we’re so limited in what we did on a game to game basis that we were very predictable.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Just a better play caller would help our run game. With our offensive staff we had no consistent option for the run game.

I remember two games where they employed a quick passing game out of bunch formations that made it hard for the defense to cover all three guys. But that’s all we saw of it.

We saw a couple of games where we stretched the OL & David Johnson looked like a RB. We saw Rex Burkhead look like a featured back, one game.

if they could just find a way to mix those elements with the normal passing offense, our hurry up offense, all in one game, every game the run game would have been better.

we’re so limited in what we did on a game to game basis that we were very predictable.
In the beginning of the season they were limited by the gameplan for a rookie qb making his 1st start etc... they were always limited by the lack of a run game and a bad OL. The Chargers game when the Charges were missing most of their DL and the Texans were missing most of their OL is what the offense would look like if the Texans had a decent OL.
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
By the way, Cincy has some high draft picks on that line also.
Well, if some is defined by Williams, and if you want to count Reiff who's on IR, they were 1st rounders. 2nd rounder Carmen doesn't play much. Prince and Adeniji are 6th rounders and Spain and Hopkins are UDFAs.
 

TheMatrix31

Hall of Fame
Can you please elaborate on dirty?

..Just because the last time this team had a adequate Online that was highly regarded all I heard from divisional rivals was how dirty they were..

These were lines coached by Alex Gibbs and Jon Benton.. only time this team's line was worth a damn.
Low cut back blocks like what caused Cushing to cause injury #1 that eventually led to his career ending, acting like the Titans OLs of past or that thug Eric Fisher from KC, etc.

I don't think we were dirty when the OL was good.
 

michaelm

vox nihili
Texans fans have to be schizophrenic. Within the span of a month or two we've gone from fans complaining that "the coach can't even bring in his own staff! He's a puppet!" to "the coach is hiring his own staff, but they're no good!"
If you look closely you'll realize it's mainly the people who don't like Caserio, so basically anything he's involved in is automatically bad
 

DBCooper

Outlaw
Contributor's Club
If you look closely you'll realize it's mainly the people who don't like Caserio, so basically anything he's involved in is automatically bad
For me this is his time to show what he can do.

Trade Deshaun and use the draft picks to turn this place around.

Make some wise choices on the contracts going forward.

If he can accomplish these he will be good in my book.
 

justmy2cents

Veteran
Contributor's Club
We’ve wasted so much offensive talent in Houston. I’m not against drafting OL, but I haven’t seen anything to make me think a bonafide #1 overall generational LT (or a Laremy Tunsil) won’t be wasted.

I feel much more confident that premium defensive talent will have the most impact on this team.

I feel much the same. I do really believe that Tunsil was much more interested, in selection to Pro Bowl and crown of highest paid Lineman in history .... than he ever was interested in - working his butt off to make this a line to take note of ! If he ever was dedicated to, "playing like the best," he did it under an amazing camouflage of effort. Either way, we can't swear off of never-ending quest for the highest quality linemen we can get our hands on .... as early as possible. Sorry .... sore spot !
 
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TheRealJoker

Hall of Fame
We’ve wasted so much offensive talent in Houston. I’m not against drafting OL, but I haven’t seen anything to make me think a bonafide #1 overall generational LT (or a Laremy Tunsil) won’t be wasted.

I feel much more confident that premium defensive talent will have the most impact on this team.
On a positive note:

Warhop did get to coach Orlando Pace and Joe Thomas for a time. So if the Texans luck into a hall of fame OL chances are they wont be ruined by coaching!
 

xtruroyaltyx

Hall of Fame
Just a better play caller would help our run game. With our offensive staff we had no consistent option for the run game.

I remember two games where they employed a quick passing game out of bunch formations that made it hard for the defense to cover all three guys. But that’s all we saw of it.

We saw a couple of games where we stretched the OL & David Johnson looked like a RB. We saw Rex Burkhead look like a featured back, one game.

if they could just find a way to mix those elements with the normal passing offense, our hurry up offense, all in one game, every game the run game would have been better.

we’re so limited in what we did on a game to game basis that we were very predictable.
I’m hoping that was a carryover of OBs offense.
The Texans offensive play calling I remember was very Jekyll and Hyde. More Hyde than Jekyll.

It was almost like they ignored reality and what was actually happening and stuck to some predetermined formula they had come up with that for some reason called for a lot of runs straight up the middle.

Any variation from that will be refreshing.

Successful or not, just seeing non-stupid and predictable will be a step up.
 

Texansphan

Hall of Fame
We’ve wasted so much offensive talent in Houston. I’m not against drafting OL, but I haven’t seen anything to make me think a bonafide #1 overall generational LT (or a Laremy Tunsil) won’t be wasted.

I feel much more confident that premium defensive talent will have the most impact on this team.
Tend to agree - mainly because there is depth to this OL class.
And we need pass rush bad.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Tend to agree - mainly because there is depth to this OL class.
And we need pass rush bad.
Just depends on who the most talented guys are. I've got Neal rated #1 on my board. So I hope he's there and the pick at 1-3. Hamilton is my 2nd rated player. The point is at this point of the rebuild I'm more about getting the most talented players down on Kirby rather than worry about positions or sides of the ball.

What I'm really hoping for is a trade down and picking up an extra 2nd, then bringing Kenyon Green home. This is unlikely to happen but there's always hope.
 

Texansphan

Hall of Fame
Just depends on who the most talented guys are. I've got Neal rated #1 on my board. So I hope he's there and the pick at 1-3. Hamilton is my 2nd rated player. The point is at this point of the rebuild I'm more about getting the most talented players down on Kirby rather than worry about positions or sides of the ball.

What I'm really hoping for is a trade down and picking up an extra 2nd, then bringing Kenyon Green home. This is unlikely to happen but there's always hope.
I am really warming to KH - has a very good pass rush from deep as well.
I am so-so on Neal - won't be mad if he is #3, but others like Ekwonu and Cross also have great appeal so a trade back could land one of these.
 

Texansphan

Hall of Fame
He will be lucky if he's ever able to trade Derrick and if he happens to get lucky then the posters we're talking about are going to be b!tching about the return.
Some team that is "just a QB away" from being bona fide contenders will likely bite the bullet - we have seen risks taken by teams over the years and I can see it happening again.
Still, I can't see a huge haul of draft picks coming for him as the risk factor will determine market value and I'm sure Caserio has a good handle on what he can get for him in any situation by now.
I also believe Caserio wants to maximize his efforts to rebuild this team and also protect his own job.
Will be interesting to see the eventual outcome.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
Just depends on who the most talented guys are. I've got Neal rated #1 on my board. So I hope he's there and the pick at 1-3. Hamilton is my 2nd rated player. The point is at this point of the rebuild I'm more about getting the most talented players down on Kirby rather than worry about positions or sides of the ball.

What I'm really hoping for is a trade down and picking up an extra 2nd, then bringing Kenyon Green home. This is unlikely to happen but there's always hope.
Neal started at OG in 2019, after Jedrick Willis graduated, Neal was moved to RT in 2020. After LT Leatherwood was drafted in 2021 Neal was moved to LT. Bama OL in 2021 was considered their weak link (Georgia showed that in Natty). IMO Combine will show Neal will be a Pro Bowl OG or RT. Doesn't haven't that quick step to play LT in the NFL. Best pass blocking LT in this draft is Charles Cross, Miss St. The best athlete most likely at #3 will be the shutdown, take half the field away, cornerback Derek Stingley, LSU. Let's see what the Combine medicals say and if he really does come as advertised. Will we see that 4.3?

If Texans trade Tunsil draft Cross. If they don't take Stingley. Combine approved, of course.
 
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steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Neal started at OG in 2019, after Jedrick Willis graduated, Neal was moved to RT in 2020. After LT Leatherwood was drafted in 2021 Neal was moved to LT. Bama OL in 2021 was considered their weak link (Georgia showed that in Natty). IMO Combine will show Neal will be a Pro Bowl OG. Doesn't haven't that quick step to play LT in the NFL. Best pass blocking LT in this draft is Charles Cross, Miss St. The best athlete most likely at #3 will be the shutdown, take half the field away, cornerback Derek Stingley, LSU. Let's see what the Combine medicals say and if he really does come as advertised. Will we see that 4.3?

If Texans trade Tunsil draft Cross. If they don't take Stingley. Combine approved, of course.
I dont see Neal this way, I see him as a guy who can be a difference maker. I'm keeping Tunsil and adding Neal if I'm Caserio and then maybe even drafting Salyer at 2-37. Those 2 picks would solidify the OL for yrs to come and allow Caserio to move on from Tunsil next offseason. I've read some guys that agree with you and some that agree with me. I think the guys that dont like Neal are worried about his weight. He's an amazing athlete for a man his size though.

I absolutely love Stingley, I had him as my pick at #3 until CnD told us about Stingley's Lisfranc and the issues he could have with that foot in 3-5 yrs. After reading this I'm a pass on Stingley guy. I do like Gardner alot too.

Love Cross, I wonder how long it will take him to adjust to a NFL type offense after coming from a Leach offense.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
I dont see Neal this way, I see him as a guy who can be a difference maker. I'm keeping Tunsil and adding Neal if I'm Caserio and then maybe even drafting Salyer at 2-37. Those 2 picks would solidify the OL for yrs to come and allow Caserio to move on from Tunsil next offseason. I've read some guys that agree with you and some that agree with me. I think the guys that dont like Neal are worried about his weight. He's an amazing athlete for a man his size though.

I absolutely love Stingley, I had him as my pick at #3 until CnD told us about Stingley's Lisfranc and the issues he could have with that foot in 3-5 yrs. After reading this I'm a pass on Stingley guy. I do like Gardner alot too.

Love Cross, I wonder how long it will take him to adjust to a NFL type offense after coming from a Leach offense.
I'm not worried about Neal other than I'm just not sure he's quick enough to play LT. RT and OG are probably his better positions in the NFL. Neal may be susceptible and exposed with the quicker faster edge rushers.

Playing for Leach, Cross has done far more pass blocking than any other LT in this class. He's far more experienced. Run blocking would be the question about him.

Stingley has to perform up to all of his expectations and pass all of his medicals to be make the Top 10. This would include running a 4.3.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Let's see what the Combine medicals say and if he really does come as advertised.
Combine medical can't really give us any definitive answers about Stingley. With rest, he'll look completely fine & perform as well as he ever had.

But he'll always fall off later in the season, like play off time. He might get 12/13 games early on, but in future years it will be fewer & fewer. Maybe he can still play 10 games at peak performance 5 years from now, maybe only 5.

But they would have to do specific range of motion type of examinations to determine how good/bad his lisfranc is
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
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I'm not worried about Neal other than I'm just not sure he's quick enough to play LT. RT and OG are probably his better positions in the NFL. Neal may be susceptible and exposed with the quicker faster edge rushers.

Playing for Leach, Cross has done far more pass blocking than any other LT in this class. He's far more experienced. Run blocking would be the question about him.

Stingley has to perform up to all of his expectations and pass all of his medicals to be make the Top 10. This would include running a 4.3.
He didn't have any issues against Georgia's talented edges that are scheduled to go in the 1st rd. He played well against all of the top tier SEC competition and that's enough to put him at the top of my board. He was more dominant than Cross. IMHO and I like Cross alot. He was the best OL in the SEC IMHO and that includes Salyer/Green/Cross etc...

Stingley is going to light up the combine.
 

michaelm

vox nihili
For me this is his time to show what he can do.

Trade Deshaun and use the draft picks to turn this place around.

Make some wise choices on the contracts going forward.

If he can accomplish these he will be good in my book.
Agree 100%.
 


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