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New DC Weaver adding new things to the D

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
I'm hopeful that Weaver brings a new blood attitude to the defense. RAC has had a great career, but there comes a point where younger & hungrier coordinators can learn from that history and improve it for today's offenses.
Yeah that bend but don’t break philosophically approach just didn’t cut the mustard. It had it’s moments but dang it, in big time games they gave up the ghost to freaking often. I surely hope Weaver comes with some creativity and aggression.
 

Bugman7star

Veteran
Yeah that bend but don’t break philosophically approach just didn’t cut the mustard. It had it’s moments but dang it, in big time games they gave up the ghost to freaking often. I surely hope Weaver comes with some creativity and aggression.
I agree. The most nervous I am when watching this team is when we are up by 6 or less and the other team has the ball for the last possession of the game and our defense has to get a stop. Bend but don't break/prevent defense crap cost us crucial games over the last few years.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
I agree. The most nervous I am when watching this team is when we are up by 6 or less and the other team has the ball for the last possession of the game and our defense has to get a stop. Bend but don't break/prevent defense crap cost us crucial games over the last few years.

John Madden once said - "All a prevent defense does is prevent you from winning"
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
The Texans had a tremendous offseason for the defense. I have the utmost faith in the powers that be over there on Kirby. Why the negativity fellas?

You really believe that ?

I think it was a terrible offseason for the defense.

Losing Reader was I think the worst thing that happened to this team this offseason - Worse than the DHop trade and that was rotten.

They didn't improve the back end at all and they were 29th in the league last year ?

They still don't have a LBer who can cover a baby TE much less a full grown one.


I really like Blacklock but he's a pass rusher not a run stuffer that they needed up front.

Greenard's Ok too ... he might push Scarlett for the starting spot but that's not a big ask. Scarlet wouldn't start for 28 other teams.

Every team in this division wants to pound the rock on the ground. I expect them to be ripping off 4-5 yards a carry and the Texans find themselves in 3rd and 1 or 2 often and giving up a ton of long drives with a worn out defense as a result.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
You really believe that ?

I think it was a terrible offseason for the defense.

Losing Reader was I think the worst thing that happened to this team this offseason - Worse than the DHop trade and that was rotten.

They didn't improve the back end at all and they were 29th in the league last year ?

They still don't have a LBer who can cover a baby TE much less a full grown one.


I really like Blacklock but he's a pass rusher not a run stuffer that they needed up front.

Greenard's Ok too ... he might push Scarlett for the starting spot but that's not a big ask. Scarlet wouldn't start for 28 other teams.

Every team in this division wants to pound the rock on the ground. I expect them to be ripping off 4-5 yards a carry and the Texans find themselves in 3rd and 1 or 2 often and giving up a ton of long drives with a worn out defense as a result.
I believe banned was being sarcastic lol
 

Mangler

All Pro
I’m expecting more games like the one on opening night (MNF) against the Saints. Watson throwing what should be the game winning TD just to have the defense screw it all up with only seconds to go. Not that we haven’t already had plenty of those...
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
You really believe that ?

I think it was a terrible offseason for the defense.

Losing Reader was I think the worst thing that happened to this team this offseason - Worse than the DHop trade and that was rotten.

They didn't improve the back end at all and they were 29th in the league last year ?

They still don't have a LBer who can cover a baby TE much less a full grown one.


I really like Blacklock but he's a pass rusher not a run stuffer that they needed up front.

Greenard's Ok too ... he might push Scarlett for the starting spot but that's not a big ask. Scarlet wouldn't start for 28 other teams.

Every team in this division wants to pound the rock on the ground. I expect them to be ripping off 4-5 yards a carry and the Texans find themselves in 3rd and 1 or 2 often and giving up a ton of long drives with a worn out defense as a result.
Losing Reader is only a major loss if the Texans stay in a base 3-4. Personnel-wise, the Texans appear to be better suited for a base 4-3. Knowing that they will be in nickel at least 50% of the time, I could see them running a 46 style defense, using Cole as a hybrid LB/SS. Those schemes should allow the Texans to rush the passer better while defending the run.
 

Double Barrel

Moderator / Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I don't want to be pessimistic, but I also want to be realistic. All things considered, I can't have high expectations for this defense.

Weaver is a new DC, they did not add much talent, JJ is another year older, and the last time they were on the field was for a historic (and record setting) full team postseason meltdown. Who knows how that could affect their collective mentality.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Losing Reader is only a major loss if the Texans stay in a base 3-4. Personnel-wise, the Texans appear to be better suited for a base 4-3. Knowing that they will be in nickel at least 50% of the time, I could see them running a 46 style defense, using Cole as a hybrid LB/SS. Those schemes should allow the Texans to rush the passer better while defending the run.
The 46 was great against 2 back 1 TE 2 WR sets back in the day .... that's not todays NFL. It just doesn't work against these modern spread formations.

When I look at the personnel , I think they are missing a key component to run either system effectively.

3-4 they don't have a quality nose and don't have a LBer who's competent in coverage , safety play doesn't help this either.

4-3 the front 4 is in better shape against the run but lets be honest , they don't have traditional 43 DE's and I don't see any OLB's that fit the mold. Greenard and Scarlet are pass rushers from that outside spot , not guys you are going to ask to drop into coverage on TE's / RB's.
Mercilus is a waste of cap space in this scenario and one of Cunningham / McKinney is rendered irrelevant too - Maybe both if Cole is your "passing down / nickel guy".

The worst part of this is we haven't even begun to discuss the secondary ....

If you ask me , this defense is a total mess. They are ripe for exploit at every level.

Their best bet may be staying in the nickel the vast majority of the time .... and that to me supports RAC's bend don't break philosophy.
 

Double Barrel

Moderator / Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Most offenses have incorporated some aspects of WCO schemes into them these days, and the WCO was the kryptonite to the 46 defense. Joe Montana always had a field day against Buddy Ryan's defenses, including the Chiefs/Oilers playoff game when Montana was ancient in football years.

Buddy would rush so many men that a solid WCO QB could take his 3 step drop and just pick the coverage apart, which would usually be man to man.

Do we even have a strong safety that could play that role where he basically becomes a LB in many plays?
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
The 46 was great against 2 back 1 TE 2 WR sets back in the day .... that's not todays NFL. It just doesn't work against these modern spread formations.

When I look at the personnel , I think they are missing a key component to run either system effectively.

3-4 they don't have a quality nose and don't have a LBer who's competent in coverage , safety play doesn't help this either.

4-3 the front 4 is in better shape against the run but lets be honest , they don't have traditional 43 DE's and I don't see any OLB's that fit the mold. Greenard and Scarlet are pass rushers from that outside spot , not guys you are going to ask to drop into coverage on TE's / RB's.
Mercilus is a waste of cap space in this scenario and one of Cunningham / McKinney is rendered irrelevant too - Maybe both if Cole is your "passing down / nickel guy".

The worst part of this is we haven't even begun to discuss the secondary ....

If you ask me , this defense is a total mess. They are ripe for exploit at every level.

Their best bet may be staying in the nickel the vast majority of the time .... and that to me supports RAC's bend don't break philosophy.
Watt and Blackson would be a fine DE duo in a 4-3. They are pretty well set at the DT positions, so I agree the front 4 is good to go. Cole being healthy, and staying that way, is going to be a key in LB coverage. I'd keep him on the field as much as possible.
I'm not as down on the safties as some are, but agree with CB being a mess. My hope is that an improved pass rush will make them look better. Hoping for a big jump from Lonnie Johnson, also.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Watt and Blackson would be a fine DE duo in a 4-3. They are pretty well set at the DT positions, so I agree the front 4 is good to go. Cole being healthy, and staying that way, is going to be a key in LB coverage. I'd keep him on the field as much as possible.
I'm not as down on the safties as some are, but agree with CB being a mess. My hope is that an improved pass rush will make them look better. Hoping for a big jump from Lonnie Johnson, also.

On the DE's .... Watt can play in any system and thrive - assuming health.

Blackson to me is more of a 3-4 DE , not the explosive edge rusher you need in a 4-3 scheme.

Those two along with Blacklock and Dunn inside is probably their front best capable of defending the run and generating pressure on the QB.

But that leaves the LB spots a total mess with no traditional Sam / Will types & what do you do with Mercilus ? Maybe he's your Will being that he's a solid run defender - but that's a hell of a lot of money to dedicate to that position.
You probably move on from McKinney in that scenario and Cole / Cunningham is probably your Mike / Sam .... I'm not expecting Greenard to drop into coverage , he's a 34 edge pass rusher from that outside LB spot , basically Mercilus 2.0.

No matter which front 7 scheme they try and run , they are missing a key component of and mismatching pieces elsewhere.

Maybe a 5 man front (Watt , Blackson , Dunn , Blacklock) with Mercilus as the widest guy on the weakside gives them the most versatility. Then you can mix and match Cunningham / Cole / Nickel corner based on the situation.
 

ArlingtonTexan

Moderator
Staff member
Not going to try to answer everything here, but Mercilus, Greenard Scarlett, Martin are all "edge players" DEs in a 4-3 or OLB 3-4n. Honestly the Texans play in four-man pass rush front, seemingly 4-2-5 more than they spent in a base defense anyway. the nickle corner is a starting position at this point and the 3rd safety generally plays more than a true Strong 4-3 LB or run stuffing only NT.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I think we could see a 5-2 front seven. I think I've mentioned this before. My thought is we have to shake up the QB to give our DBs better odds. Conley and Robey are more 'man' covg and with both in second season with Texans should be even better.

Watt, Mercilus, Blacklock, Blackson and Omenihu---front 5.

McKinney and Greenard to shut down middle with Cunningham/Cole/ or Jacob Martin Manning hybrid LB/safety. We know we do not have coverage Lbs but these give us some ability to man handle TEs and RBs trying to exploit box.

Robey and Conley wrangling the outside with Justin Reid roaming depending on play called. IMO Reid can be a Jamal Adams type safety. This will definitely keep QB guessing and hopefully rattled. Sure a quick release passer will try to take advantage but they do that already and we have never had front 7 like this with depth to keep pressure all game. Of course I expect to see 3 and 4 man fronts. Should be plenty experimenting with Weaver. Dunn and AA should be able to handle traditional Nose when called for. Reader is gone and defense was not that great with him. I'm ready to move on to something different. Time to see what we have with the younger guys and what future looks like.
Oh and I cannot pass up this roster should open some players for trades. I saw another source saying Jags may not get offered higher than a third for Yannick Ngayoue as few teams with 1st in 2021 have cap space for apprx 20-22 mill avg. Jets would be one that could but they just gave up Adams to avoid that type contract. Jags don't want to send him to division rival like Houston but everything I read says Yannick will not play for Jags.

They drafted Chaisson to replace Yannick and McKinney would do well next to Schobert. Everyone wins.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Not going to try to answer everything here, but Mercilus, Greenard Scarlett, Martin are all "edge players" DEs in a 4-3 or OLB 3-4n. Honestly the Texans play in four-man pass rush front, seemingly 4-2-5 more than they spent in a base defense anyway. the nickle corner is a starting position at this point and the 3rd safety generally plays more than a true Strong 4-3 LB or run stuffing only NT.

I have to disagree , there's quite a difference in what you are looking for in a 43 DE and a 34 OLB. The techniques involved are vastly different.

Khalil Mack Vs Mario Williams - one of them is 6'3" 265 , the other is 6'6" 300ish.

As for the rest of your post , I agree we'll likely see quite a bit of 4-2 / 4-1 fronts. The question to me is which LBers are in the middle of that .... and if it's not McKinney , what do you do with him ?
 

ArlingtonTexan

Moderator
Staff member
I have to disagree , there's quite a difference in what you are looking for in a 43 DE and a 34 OLB. The techniques involved are vastly different.

Khalil Mack Vs Mario Williams - one of them is 6'3" 265 , the other is 6'6" 300ish.

As for the rest of your post , I agree we'll likely see quite a bit of 4-2 / 4-1 fronts. The question to me is which LBers are in the middle of that .... and if it's not McKinney , what do you do with him ?
I am more going by what I see in term of the league on the DE/OLB thing. Texans "favorite" Clowney has been classified as both for example.

Mckinney is an ILB/MLB, fairly clealy in my mind. To me, he is old-school in a flip phone or blackberry sort of way. and may not be anymore useful in a defense trying to defend 3 and 4 wide spread concept.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Mckinney is an ILB/MLB, fairly clealy in my mind. To me, he is old-school in a flip phone or blackberry sort of way. and may not be anymore useful in a defense trying to defend 3 and 4 wide spread concept.
This is something I've been hinting at for a while. McKinney is a total liability in coverage and Cunningham isn't a whole lot better. Their completion percentage against numbers being 89.7% & 77.6% , that's unplayable.
 

SnakeEyes

Waterboy
John Madden once said - "All a prevent defense does is prevent you from winning"
True, unless you are the Patriots when Brady was there. That D shut down everything inside about the 30. And you settled for FGs or nothing. It seems that RAC didn't design his style for that...but the current DC has. But everyone pkays a nickel and dime D anymore. Meaning get pressure from the DL and LBs or the DBs are going to be in a track meet all day
 

ArlingtonTexan

Moderator
Staff member
This is something I've been hinting at for a while. McKinney is a total liability in coverage and Cunningham isn't a whole lot better. Their completion percentage against numbers being 89.7% & 77.6% , that's unplayable.
There is probably is something to Romeo DC who favored the classic 3-4 and having two ILBs that are somewhat out date..although Cunningham has more traits that say he should be better than plus 75% completion against.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Maybe it was the way OCs isolated quick RBs on Cunningham in space, but to me, I never really saw the speed that was advertised when he was drafted. It didn't translate to the field. In fact, I'm not sure he could out run a healthy Clowney.
The speed was when he came up to make the tackle. It seemed as if he was around the football all of the times. The reports lol did say he was good in coverage.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Trade him to team that needs him.
Honestly I think the one you trade is McKinney. He's by far worse in coverage and costs you 9x as much and tho this is a contract year for Cunningham , I think you can keep him for less than McKinney costs over the next 4 years , particularly with a depressed cap due to Covid.

Cunningham at a 76% completion rate against is closer to the league average than McKinney at 89%. McKinney is a little better in run support but not a whole hell of a lot.

I'd run Cunningham and Cole inside on the base defense with Mercilus and whoever wins the job out of camp between Scarlett and Greenard.

In nickel / dime situations , one or both of Cunningham and Scarlett/Greenard go take a seat in favor of DB's.

Just have to hope the front 3/4 can hold up against the run.

A 3rd competent Safety is probably going to be critical to their success.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Honestly I think the one you trade is McKinney. He's by far worse in coverage and costs you 9x as much and tho this is a contract year for Cunningham , I think you can keep him for less than McKinney costs over the next 4 years , particularly with a depressed cap due to Covid.

Cunningham at a 76% completion rate against is closer to the league average than McKinney at 89%. McKinney is a little better in run support but not a whole hell of a lot.

I'd run Cunningham and Cole inside on the base defense with Mercilus and whoever wins the job out of camp between Scarlett and Greenard.

In nickel / dime situations , one or both of Cunningham and Scarlett/Greenard go take a seat in favor of DB's.

Just have to hope the front 3/4 can hold up against the run.

A 3rd competent Safety is probably going to be critical to their success.
I definitely agree as I have posted, between the two keep Sam over BMac. However, I prefer to move both in trade(s) if possible. Cunningham has some value but I don't want to have to add a new extension a la Nick Martin. I'm still hoping Yannick comes here. BTW, Ngayoue fired his agent and must wait 5 days if he hires a new one. Jags could be interested in both. SC could be safety net if Chaisson doesn't adapt quickly.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Honestly I think the one you trade is McKinney. He's by far worse in coverage and costs you 9x as much and tho this is a contract year for Cunningham , I think you can keep him for less than McKinney costs over the next 4 years , particularly with a depressed cap due to Covid.

Cunningham at a 76% completion rate against is closer to the league average than McKinney at 89%. McKinney is a little better in run support but not a whole hell of a lot.

I'd run Cunningham and Cole inside on the base defense with Mercilus and whoever wins the job out of camp between Scarlett and Greenard.

In nickel / dime situations , one or both of Cunningham and Scarlett/Greenard go take a seat in favor of DB's.

Just have to hope the front 3/4 can hold up against the run.

A 3rd competent Safety is probably going to be critical to their success.
Since Cunningham is coming up for a large extension, and McKinney/Cunningham are about the same player, give me the cost certainty of McKinney. Trade Cunningham for badly needed draft picks.

Speaking of picks. A coverage LB is my #1 need. Even more than CB.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Since Cunningham is coming up for a large extension, and McKinney/Cunningham are about the same player, give me the cost certainty of McKinney. Trade Cunningham for badly needed draft picks.

Speaking of picks. A coverage LB is my #1 need. Even more than CB.

I think you can keep Cunningham for less than what McKinney is on the books for and with Watson and WFV having looming extensions , you are gonna need all the cap space you can get.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
What i saw out of Cunningham coming out is what i'm seeing right now. Those almost arm's reach tackles give the illusion that he's good sideline to sideline, but its just too frequent to where you have to say he's not quite a sideline to sideline guy. I favor keeping him over McKinney though b/c he's better in coverage albeit not that much better.
 

Double Barrel

Moderator / Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
What does Michael Thomas the safety add to the Texans defense?

According to secondary coach D’Anton Lynn, who takes over for Anthony Midget, now with the Tennessee Titans, the Texans defense is getting a highly intelligent defensive back with great communication skills.

“He’s a very smart guy,” Lynn said. “He’s been here for a short period of time and he’s already one of the best communicators on the field. I think just the younger guys seeing a pro like him, how he practices, how he acts in the meeting room, how he takes care of his body. Just his presence already has already made everyone else better.”

Article
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Losing Reader is only a major loss if the Texans stay in a base 3-4. Personnel-wise, the Texans appear to be better suited for a base 4-3. Knowing that they will be in nickel at least 50% of the time, I could see them running a 46 style defense, using Cole as a hybrid LB/SS. Those schemes should allow the Texans to rush the passer better while defending the run.
We need to scratch out both the 43 and 34 base terminology in today's NFL game.
What with the near-death of the FB and the widespread use of flexing the TE and RB, defenses are often in Dime or Nickel.
A 42 base is much more common these days.
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
We need to scratch out both the 43 and 34 base terminology in today's NFL game.
What with the near-death of the FB and the widespread use of flexing the TE and RB, defenses are often in Dime or Nickel.
A 42 base is much more common these days.
I agree with this. Nickel is played over 50% of the time. Maybe they should start calling base defenses by the back 7 instead of the front 7.
 

SnakeEyes

Waterboy
Honestly I think the one you trade is McKinney. He's by far worse in coverage and costs you 9x as much and tho this is a contract year for Cunningham , I think you can keep him for less than McKinney costs over the next 4 years , particularly with a depressed cap due to Covid.

Cunningham at a 76% completion rate against is closer to the league average than McKinney at 89%. McKinney is a little better in run support but not a whole hell of a lot.

I'd run Cunningham and Cole inside on the base defense with Mercilus and whoever wins the job out of camp between Scarlett and Greenard.

In nickel / dime situations , one or both of Cunningham and Scarlett/Greenard go take a seat in favor of DB's.

Just have to hope the front 3/4 can hold up against the run.

A 3rd competent Safety is probably going to be critical to their success.
Cunningham runs a 4.6, same a a RB we had named Foster. Meaning he can keep up with TEs and still has the size at 234 (combine weight) to make a tackle by himself. So, I agree that McKinney is the one who is a liability. A good S (SS or FS) in the back end or even a bigger CB will have a big impact on the coverage for the LBs
 

SnakeEyes

Waterboy
I agree with this. Nickel is played over 50% of the time. Maybe they should start calling base defenses by the back 7 instead of the front 7.
Sorry for a double post but I think most play Nickel 60% or more of the time. Making you 100% correct. I also think that is why many LBs in the 230-ish range are being drafted over the old typical 240+ and some older 3-4's had 260lb LBs. Remember the Steelers had guys like Kirkland who were 255-260 or more
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Cunningham runs a 4.6, same a a RB we had named Foster. Meaning he can keep up with TEs and still has the size at 234 (combine weight) to make a tackle by himself. So, I agree that McKinney is the one who is a liability. A good S (SS or FS) in the back end or even a bigger CB will have a big impact on the coverage for the LBs
The true SS has just about gone the way of the dodo and the FB.
 


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