badboy
Hall of Fame
Wow! Exactly what I would have said but too tired to put together, a very good evaluation. If we had a trade down and got TB I'd be more willing.
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NastyNate's mock
- Thread starter NastyNate
- Start date
This evaluation is in line with mine. We are seeing the same things.
Although I will say I thought McCarron played well under intense pressure during the Auburn game.
aussie_texan
Veteran
So in your opinion is TB getting overrated or McCarron being underrated??
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
McCarron is clearly being underrated and the Heisman ceremony provides a glimpse into why. His numbers up against the other qb prospects in that ceremony looked below average and made it seem like he didn't even belong there. Hell, the fact that he's never thrown for even 3000 yards in a season makes it seem proposterous that he was considered at the outset of the season to begin with.
& for a guy who played in so many big games in the SEC and BCS bowls, he didn't really have that many moments &/or "wow" plays that scouts & draftniks like to see. I contend that he did, they were just overshadowed by 1 of the following:
-how good his overall team was & how dominant they were....
-by how a player on his own team was making an opponent look...
-by how a player on another team was making his team look.....
And unless your talent & potential is off the charts, Draft "experts" have this thing where they tend to shy away from qb's who put up video game numbers in smaller conferences..but endlessly hype qbs in bigger conferences who do the same thing. Guys like McCarron who fall between these 2 extremes are usually treated as the former.....Stupid i know, but that's why you get guys like Rodgers, Russell Wilson & Kaepernick falling through the cracks. In McCarron's case, anyone who's objectively looking at him can clearly see the potential is there, but b/c Saban was so clearly dominant in terms of the leadership of the team, McCarron doesn't get his just due as being the co-captain of that juggernaut.
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Texian
Hall of Fame
Again, this is a matter of opinion. In the 5 games I have watched Bridgewater, IMHO, Teddy doesn't make all the throws. My biggest concern is his deep ball, Bridgewater needs a high trajectory, a lot of air underneath in order to get the distance he needs. For me, I saw several of these type passes that would likely be INTs in the NFL. I have also noticed that while Bridgewater is accurate, his ball placement is suspect, which could also be more of a problem in the NFL.
Blake
MMQB
Serious question. To you, how does ball placement differ from accuracy? I figured ball placement is part of what makes a QB accurate.
Texian
Hall of Fame
IMHO regarding QB ball placement, does the QB put the ball in the best position possible for the receiver to make the catch. A completion says accurate but doesn't necessarily mean good ball placement. As you are aware and have watched many times you have seen WRs make good catches on passes that were to high, to low, behind the receiver, leads the WR to much, to little, under throws the receivers yet these types of passes can also be completions. To me, Bridgewater has a high percentage of these type passes.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
This is a good place for the distinction between accurate and precise.
Without precision even accurate throwers can't get into ball placement as much more than luck.
Texian
Hall of Fame
This is a good place for the distinction between accurate and precise.
Without precision even accurate throwers can't get into ball placement as much more than luck.
We're talking about QB ball placement and not firearm target practice. Once again your left field comparisons does absolutely nothing to answer the question. It only confuses the issue, you now have folks wondering does a QB have to be a good shot to be a good QB. If a QB is proficient at shooting skeet is he even a better QB? Typical stuff you can expect from Cak's alternative universe.
Blake
MMQB
I guess I just dont consider a QB who doesnt have good ball placement as having good accuracy. I would never say "that dude is so accurate except he puts the ball behind the receiver."
Calling a QB accurate when he has poor ball placement doesnt make sense to me. Either you are accurate and place the ball correctly, or you dont.
Calling a QB accurate when he has poor ball placement doesnt make sense to me. Either you are accurate and place the ball correctly, or you dont.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Bridgewater has tremendous timing & rhythm. He throws a very catchable football that when you talk about accuracy, one: is in receivers optimum window that leads to two: precision in stride & out of hitting (dangerzone) intersection so receiver can focus on making catch first instead of hearing footsteps & third: combination of two enhances chance to turn small gain into something much bigger (run after catch), more TD's & higher numbers in general.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Many folks see that a QB has 70% completion and immediately think, man is he accurate, and he is. The next question is how often does the QB put the ball in the optimum position for the receiver to run with the ball after the catch. Does the QB expose his WRs to viscous hits? Are passes placed in the best position where the WR can catch the pass with their hands and still shield the defender? Next time you watch a game, critique the pass and the completion. Was it a perfect pass? to high? to low? poor placement because the WR had to stop or backup to make the reception? # of good passes vs # of passes that could have been better? Are sideline and corner passes thrown where only the WR can make the catch? When I watch Bridgewater these are some things that cause me some concern.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Butt out of stuff you know nothing about. Precision v. accuracy is a scientific/mathematical distinction which is easily and commonly illustrated with targets. You brought up firearms because you are too ignorant to realize this applies to data assessment generally and specifically to the results of any projectile.
Texian
Hall of Fame
You're the one who butted in, this was originally a conversation between me and Blake. Blake asked me a question that you felt compelled to answer. Or were you trolling? You brought up firearms with your firearm targets. We all know you are an expert in all things, expert firearm target practice and medical surgery all in the last 30 minutes. Maybe you should butt out and let me and Blake finish our conversation whether you agree with our conversation or not.
bah007
Hall of Fame
I think McCarron is underrated. He is easily the best of Saban's Alabama QBs. In fact, I think he could be somewhat described as a poor man's Teddy Bridgewater. They are good at all the same things, but I have Teddy rated a little bit higher in every single category except for deep ball, which is something he has the ability to get better at with improved mechanics.
bah007
Hall of Fame
Were y'all exchanging private messages or were y'all posting on a MESSAGE BOARD in which numerous people are sharing their opinions on the same subject?..
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Would your vagina be less itchy if it was a dartboard? It's a target of any kind.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Typical, about what I have come to expect from you.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
This is a good place for the distinction between accurate and precise.
Without precision even accurate throwers can't get into ball placement as much more than luck.
Good comparison & like always much more succint & to the point than i could ever be. How some in here didn't understand the comparision is beyond me. I'm of the opinion though that precision/ball placement is more of a gift when throwing any kind of ball b/c most guys on the college & pro level a can get it into a WR's catch radius fairly easy. But to be able to really uncork it & put it on a rope right where you want to put it...Like Rodgers & prime Manning....that's god given & lots of guys even on the pro level can't do it consistently like those 2 did/do.
Most have to take something off to place it in the right spot...if they don't they either air mail it (Schaub, Vick) or throw it in the dirt (McNabb).
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
This is very important. Bridgewater isn't playing in a funky spread like baylor,tamu,fresno st,or oregon where guys are horizontally stretching windows. He's making tight window throws to wrs who are not creating a lot of room. Not only that,the wrs don't have to dive,jump,or make lynn swann 1978 catches either. As someone stated, 70% doesn't mean you're accurate. I watch mariotta and unless the dude is running free,he's not letting it go. Go rewatch the stanford game when they re-routed the wrs and he wouldn't throw guys open. Bridgewater has to throw guys open,he doesn't have a choice.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
This is directly comparable to the back shoulder throw which must be catchable by ONLY the Receiver. A catchable throw which can be contested by the defense is a dangerous pass, even though technically accurate.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
I remind everyone that private conversations are carried on in Pmail. Post it on the MB and it's fair game for all.
Texian
Hall of Fame
I agree with this statement. I made my comments after I was told to butt out of a conversation that was originally started by myself and another member. I can also see how one can become confused when they don't know the whole story and can then easily take comments out of context.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
No problem. I just had an opportunity to post this time after reading similar comments several times, usually directed at me.
By the way, I'm off the other board for making Christian references which are worse than just about anything you can do on that board. I wasn't proselytizing or anything, just using language I know which contains biblical quotes and truths. Usually in response to attacks on Christianity and Christian beliefs. They have no problem with such attacks, but much problem with defense.
Anyway, I thought I'd let you know there are going to be changes there as a new IT person was announced just before I was banned.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Welcome to Club. Some of the old Mods became quite vindictive, mean and unreasonable with any of those who dared to disagree with them. A few of my draftnik buddies asked me to return so I checked out the other board a while back, that place has become a ghost town
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
I'm not sure I want to go back. But it was nice having the link from NFL Network.
Now I remember. Yosarian was departing.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
You weren't told to butt out of the conversation. You were told to butt out of a topic you clearly knew nothing about - precision v. accuracy.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
That's a false distinction when the topic is discussed in a conversation ON A MESSAGE BOARD. But keep discussing the topic. That's what we're here for.
Texian
Hall of Fame
You introduced shooting targets that remain stationary, are in a controlled environment, with ample time (minutes) to pull the trigger vs constant moving targets, that could involve wind, rain, snow, noise and the QB more often than not has 3 seconds or less to pull the trigger, and I'm the one who knows nothing. I think it has more to do with your propensity to always want to compare apples to oranges. A picture of a clay target would've made more sense.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
No it is not. Texian was free to answer Blake's inquiry. Texian doesn't like the precision v. accuracy distinction and that is fine too. What is not OK is jumping in with ignorance and continuing as in his latest post to insist the topic is about firearms. He can do that too - note neither his posts nor he have been moderated. It just makes him look the fool to do so.
And now you look ignorant on both precision v. accuracy and firearms. Good job.
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Texian
Hall of Fame
All fine and dandy but you never explained it yourself. When your analogies don't make sense everyone else is the fool because they don't agree. Tell us again about the itchy vagina and how that makes so much sense. Another reason your post get tiresome. Waiting now for you to tell us how hitting a stationary golf ball is the same as hitting a 90 MPH baseball.
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badboy
Hall of Fame
To clarify my post that you quote is from my prior post #44 & is about McCarron not Bridgewater.
I do agree with your POV on TB.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Well then let's close the topic as Texans will just have to take him.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Not sure you will try to understand, but...
It is not an analogy.
Precision and accuracy are math and science concepts for evaluating data. Accuracy is a measure of nearness to a known or predicted value. Precision is a measure of repeatability. They can be applied to any data and the data types/sources can be wildly disparate (not analogous to each other). The causes of the inaccuracy or imprecision will naturally be specific to the data source, i.e. the causes of inaccuracy in hitting a golf ball or a baseball will differ but the accuracy of either can be evaluated and similarly precision in each. Data is commonly represented graphically such as on an X-Y graph. A "target" is nothing more than an X-Y graph with circles depicting equidistant points from center axis.
If you don't find the distinction worth discussing, fine, but it exists and is applicable regardless.
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Texian
Hall of Fame
Yes I do understand, I always try to err on the side of math and science, primarily because they are usually exact. In this case I think you might be over thinking it. Paralysis by over analysis. This comparison is more of an art than science. You can take 10 QBs of different size and makeup and give them all the same coaching. Teach them the same footwork, release, timing and you will still likely get 10 different completion % and ball placement grades. I'm sure you will disagree.....