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My Take on this

YodAa

YodAa

Rookie
Come on guys I thought we were smart but some of you are rooting for Young and Bush and although you can make a good arguement for both most of you are making stupid arguements and making yourselfs look like fools. As much as we all wanna fool ourselves into thinking that Bush or Young would change our team around you know they won't. They both play behind very good OLs and we can't exactly give them that.

Why not Young? Because he has a very good OL and we don't so it'd be stupid to waste another QBs talents. Also if we did draft him he'd have to sit at least 1 year on the bench before his skills are ready for the NFL. David Carr has been here and done an OK job with what hes had to work with but I garuantee that if given a line Carr would be the Brett Favre. We can't give up on Carr without really testing him but the biggest reason why not to give up on him is that if he leaves and makes it big somewhere else we'll never here the end of some of yalls whining.

Why not Bush? Because we got DD and no line. You can say that DD is injury prone but he is a small RB and does run behind that line so why wouldn't the same happen to Bush?

The only way I could agree on drafting Bush or Young would be if we traded down with Tennessee 1st. They'd take either one with good reason since Vince has Steve and Leinart has Chow. Then NO takes whoevers left. If we got a good enough deal that included another 2nd rounder this year and some other picks this and next year AND there where no really good offers for Bush than I would take him.

But before you guys talk about how good Young and Bush will be you should also argue how good DaBrick will be because hes the Young/Bush of OTs and has just as much potential as them 2.
 
here are my arguements for and against ...well..everything.

Young: I agree with what you said.. but also think that he will not have that much more learning to do than Carr. Both will be in a new system...and both still have a great deal to learn about playing in the NFL. In Carrs case though.. he at least knows what he will be dealing with..and is experienced. He has also shown flashes of greatness at times.

Carr: I also agree with everything you said on Carr.. and would add that he has all the physical attributes to be a top notch QB..if someone can get his head on straight. The knock against him now though is that he has taken quite a beating.. he is a little bit "nervous looking" in the pocket.. and his career may well have been shortened.. unlike Young who will be a fresh start.

Bush: Sure we have DD..sure he does a great job.. sure Bush might not be any more durable than DD. The thing is that DD is signed for 3 years and we have been saying for a while that he is a great back, but is better suited to be a complimentary back. With DD and Bush both, we have two backs that can take 15 or so carries a game, and last for 16 games. And both of them are big threats catching the ball as well. I think getting Bush would really put our offense on the map.. especially with Johnson and Mathis coming around. Maybe even Joppru. The only real knock against Bush is that he may not really be NECESSARY.. we could probably get by without him, and we could trade down to meet other needs. And if we get Kubiak and he gets our oline working close to how Denver's does.. that would ease the pain a bit as well.

Dbrick: He looks alright to me.. but im not really sold on him as head and shoulders above some of the other OTs in the draft. Not to mention that Pitts has been a real surprise at LT, and I think he could hold down that position for us for the rest of his career. the Interior of the Oline strikes me as more important for us. However, we DO need a quality RT.. and getting someone like Dbrick would fix that for us. Either Dbrick or Pitts could play RT for us and do really well.. it could fix us up at OT for the next decade. But, I think we could meet this need in the second round with someone like Darryn Colledge or Winston Justice or Jonathan Scott.

Trading Down: This could be a great move for us.. but it could also bite us in the butt. There is no real guarantee with trading down, and lets face it.. even though the draft is a crapshoot.. there is a reason that top ten picks are selected in the top ten. Its because they are considered the most likely players to succeed in the NFL. Moving down LESSENS our chance of getting a real playmaker. ANd I dunno about you, but I dont plan on having too many top ten picks in my future.. as much as id like more picks, id also like to take advantage of this chance to get a real elite prospect.


So.. those are my opinions.
 
I stated in another post that neither will be that great without an OLine blocking for them!

Bobby 119C
 
It's about time that someone starts making sense! :redtowel:

In my opinion, I agree with both of you guys. If we had to, I rather take Bush over young because I to still believe in David Carr. It's weird because last year everyone was talking about getting a better o-line for Carr at the end of the season. We never got that line and now people are wanting to replace him? I think we should wait and see what a good line can do for Carr.

Something else! I think that we really need a solid 2nd Wide Reciever. I've been saying this for the past few seasons. I like Johnson and Gaffney, but I think that Bradford is done, Mathis could be something in the future. Though, I think that we need to test Free Agency and pick up a solid Wide Out. I do like Armstrong, but I don't think he will ever really be anything big.
 
I think with Johnson, Gaffney, Mathis, and Armstrong..we have a pretty nice WR corp. Bradford is cheap, i think we should hold on to him and give him a more limited role.. let the younger guys do their thing.
 
gaffney = bust
armstrong = slot
mathis = mayb a 2nd WR more of a slot

we need at least another decent receiver
 
My take:

I'm not a fan of Carr at all, as I've written in here, but I think the smartest and most straight forward thing is Bush and then O-line in the early to middle rounds.(you have 3 more in the top 66) Fill in as much as you can through free agency. That way you keep your core and hopefully a new coach's direction will help. You give Carr that one year to see what he has. I DO believe Young will be a stud and can do better here but I don't like the cap hit if you sign Carr or use the franchise tag and then have to give all that money to Toung too.
 
how in the world is Gaffney a bust? he has been our second best receiver on this team.. and just about every time he touched the ball its a first down. He isnt utilized enough.. that is the only negative associated with him.
 
hes slow and makes stupid mistakes. Vs Bills this year Carr gets him wit a great bullet for a 20 yard pass and the guy doesn't even turn around and it just hits his shoulders and incomplete. Last year that one play where he celebrated before going in and fumbled..... hes not a #2 and its crap like this y our team sucks! We make excuses for some of these players that we no arn't the answer.
 
his mistakes are few and far between..and he hasnt been utilized enough to say what he is really capable of. What game was it where AJ was out and Gaffney was our #1 receiver? I remember him kicking major *** in that game.

I think he is far from a bust. not a superstar.. but definatly good enough to be a #2..and at LEAST a #3 receiver.
 
Behind a growling,slobbering, brutish O-line, we can run the the ball with peewee herman if we have to for 5 at a time. An o-line gives Dave all day to throw and cures most of his ills and a few wins will cure the rest.

Imagine this: 1st down,20 YD line- four wide reciever set-Carr drops back to pass.he looks to his first read, Johnson, who is covered- then to the other side where Mathis (who has been practicing catches in the off season) is streaking down the sidelines streatching the defense to the breaking point. O-line is still providing impenatrable coverage so Dave has all day. They have a deep safety crossing to cover Mathis. Dave looks to his third read Mr. Automatic (armstrong), who is open because of all the coverage was focused on johnson, the flash (Mathis) and Gaffney. Armstrong catches the ball for a 23 YD gain.

1st down: 43 yd line, # WR set Johnson,Gaffney, Mathis-The ball is snapped.Carr drops back and goes through his reads and Does a play action pass to freeze the defense which is streatched all across the field, desperatly trying to cover both Mathis and johnson while still acounting for Gaffney. Dve hands the ball to DD. the o-line blows a hole ,which is easy because they are unnatural animals we traded our pick to get , and also because the defense is streatched across the field due to our studly recieving core.DD
hits the hole hard and goes the distance.

TOUCHDOWN!!!!
 
gaffney = bust
armstrong = slot
mathis = mayb a 2nd WR more of a slot

we need at least another decent receiver
Click to expand...

Gaffney a bust? Hardly a superstar, but hardly a bust.

Armstrong could very well be a good slot receiver. We don't know. Our exiled coaching staff didn't give him much opportunity. Despite the fact that he earned it. That's part of the concrete Caper's philosophy that really got to me this year. I mean, try something different!!

Mathis a slot? LOL.

We need at least another decent receiver; well I agree with that. And we need the forever elusive TE.
 
Grid said:
his mistakes are few and far between..and he hasnt been utilized enough to say what he is really capable of. What game was it where AJ was out and Gaffney was our #1 receiver? I remember him kicking major *** in that game.

I think he is far from a bust. not a superstar.. but definatly good enough to be a #2..and at LEAST a #3 receiver.
Click to expand...

When you are the #1 pick in the second round and you have his career, you are a bust, plain and simple. There were guys like Portis taken 18 picks below him. DeShaun Foster right after him. Andre Geroude, a good O-lineman below him. Josh Reed, a better receiver..after him. He is a bust. Heck, Antonio Bryant and Deion Branch were taken at the end of that round.
 
I thought it was crazy on our board.........to many fans thinking one guy will fix everything.......as good as the top 3 picks will be...if there ever was a year to get "good picks" to trade down this is the year.
 
I don't think Vince Young will fix everything. I do believe we have other picks in this draft where we can get some of the issues we have addressed. I just think Vince is a once in a blue moon talent and we have an opportunity to get the talent we need for the long haul.
 
Gaffney Rd2 33th overall, Owens Rd3 89th overall

Gaffney is basically a borderline 1st rounder, if any 1st rounder played at the level gaffney plays you'd consider him a bust.

Mathis should play #2 or slot even if he doesn't make much of a direct impact atleast it should spread the field and make the other teams fastest guy cover him.
 
YodAa said:
Carr gets him wit a great bullet for a 20 yard pass and the guy doesn't even turn around and it just hits his shoulders and incomplete. Last year that one play where he celebrated before going in and fumbled..... hes not a #2 and its crap like this y our team sucks!
Click to expand...

I remember a wide open Andre Johnson dropping a touchdown against the Ravens. Yet, for some reason nobody came down hard on him.
 
I dont judge talent based on when we got the player. If we took a tackle #1 overall and he never became more than a really good RT.. I wouldnt consider him a bust. I may wish that he had become Orlando Pace or Tony Boselli.. but I would not get rid of him because he is still playing an important role for the team.

So.. no.. he isnt the BEST player taken in the second round of that draft.. but he isnt the worst either.. and he helps the team.

He isnt a bust... hes a GOOD receiver.
 
I think that we I am going to get alot of reactions from this, but maybe that won't be such a bad thing. As far the 1st pick goes if we kept it I would like to see us get Bush. I personally do not think trading down would really benefit us much we already have plenty of good picks this yr.

Let's say we traded down though and Kubiak is our HC D'brick would not be a good fit here. Yes he is good at pass blocking, but his biggest prob. are bull rushers and run blocking. Zone blocking emphasizes run blocking and there are plenty of bull rushers in the NFL. Basically I don't think D'brick would be much of an upgrade over Pitts and might not fit into the scheme as well as we would like.

A.J. Hawk, a LB I hate to say this, but we already have good LB's. I know you think I'm on crack whatever. My reasoning is Orr coming in during the second half of the season. I saw marked improvement in the LB's, so with Wong back, I think sit Greenwood and we should see better results next yr. What if we go to the 4-3 you ask, well then I think our biggest need would be a good Defensive end. On defense I think our biggest concern should be CB and even then I think the new coaches will get better production from our safeties and cbs. If we hadn't picked up Johnson last yr. I would say Nugata or Williams would be our best bets but as it stands I'm not sure.

On to the second round we go. When I look at the offensive line the place where I see the biggest weakness is from the guards. Would I love to see Gilles playing as a guard here, yes. Again would he fit the system I don't think so. I think this pick should be used on the best defensive player that fits our needs or a TE.

The third round, this is where I think we should address line help with one if not both picks. I kinda hope we get a good tackle that can move to guard, but wouldn't mind if we got a guard to play guard. If we don't use the second pick on the o-line I would like to see it used for the defense.

With the later rounds I think they should pick up 1-2 more linemen, if we don't get Young a QB for depth (I'm not impressed with our backups at all.) and basically improve the quality of depth we have.
 
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