Support and keep Texans Talk going. Make a donation here.

Most Disappointing Texan So Far in 2022

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
The gap between Zion and Greene is vast and he went #17 overall.
He had a bad game last week and the gap was vast.

Was the gap vast after week 2 and 3 when Green gave up 0 pressures and he was pancaking guys? According to PFF which isn't a be all end all Green was the better player. Point is, it's way to early to make this kind of judgement.
 

The Pencil Neck

Hall of Fame
Pitre and Pierce can make plays. Every now and then Green mauls someone pretty sweet. Pitre>Dunta, Pierce< Arian. Really want to see Harris at LB and see what we got there. Agree rest so far are not flashing, but they are really challenging Stingley and he is doing better than KJAX in his first year at CB and he was just trying to man a side. So see some real potential there, but against the top guys he wins and loses. Was expecting some turnovers with his ball skills
If we're talking rookie performances, then Pierce > Arian. Arian's rookie year was spent mostly on the practice squad. He finally worked his way onto the field later in the year and ended up with 1 game started, and a total of 54 carries for 257 yards and 3 TDs.

So far, Pierce technically has 4 starts. He's rushed 60 for 313 yards and 2 TDs. At this point in Arian's rookie season, all he had was goose eggs.

I'm not saying that Pierce is going to be as good as Arian over the course of their careers, but the discussion was about ROOKIE seasons.
 

Rich Schmidt

Myopicone
Im a big pitre fan and have been since before he was a Texan, but Dunta was pretty electric as a rookie corner.

Dude was knocking the crap out of folks, had 3 sacks 87 tackles and 6 picks. All of that just from the rcb position.

Dunta was a stud before he got injured, but just specifically talking about his rookie year dude was waaay more exciting than anything ive seen from this group.

I think you might be selling him a bit short. Love pitre, and the season is still young, but right now Dunta was the more exciting rookie imo.
Dunta made too many stupid plays, but he hit like a freight train. I may be a bit jaded by his pay me Rick stuff and antics when he was not a super+ player anymore. Pitre, two picks, sack, fumble in one game is pretty impressive. His tackling can get better, and agree, he does not bring lumber like Dunta. Different players, and certainly different personalities. Part of Dunta was his act too, Pitre just brings his lunch pail which I appreciate. Don't have to say one was better than the other, but for sure they were both plus rookies
 
  • Like
Reactions: JB

Rich Schmidt

Myopicone
If we're talking rookie performances, then Pierce > Arian. Arian's rookie year was spent mostly on the practice squad. He finally worked his way onto the field later in the year and ended up with 1 game started, and a total of 54 carries for 257 yards and 3 TDs.

So far, Pierce technically has 4 starts. He's rushed 60 for 313 yards and 2 TDs. At this point in Arian's rookie season, all he had was goose eggs.

I'm not saying that Pierce is going to be as good as Arian over the course of their careers, but the discussion was about ROOKIE seasons.
Technically you are correct, Arian had to work his way out of the dog house. When he got real playing time it was obvious he was great for Kubiaks system, so I was remembering his first real year, but agree as rookies I had it wrong
 

beerlover

Hall of Fame
He had a bad game last week and the gap was vast.

Was the gap vast after week 2 and 3 when Green gave up 0 pressures and he was pancaking guys? According to PFF which isn't a be all end all Green was the better player. Point is, it's way to early to make this kind of judgement.
I really enjoyed watching the action live and seeing first hand how players perform and what you don’t see on TV. Body language, match-ups you choose to dissect, nobody telling you something don’t need to know, just pure, unadulterated football. Admittedly just one game, but the game I saw….. expressed my opinion …….. who disappointed me …… was really looking forward to seeing him play in person.

Watched Salyer too, 6th rd rookie who hadn’t even practiced @ OT with the one’s before last week in his first starting game. Gave up no pressures and in fact, was the one doing the pancaking. So you tell me, was Greene the best pick for the Texans @ #13?

I’m just saying I was disappointed with his play, capped off with an ugly unsportsmanlike penalty end of the game, which I’m sure wasn’t televised. I can understand his frustration and learning curve but nothing at all what I expected to see from him.

Stingley on the other hand played his ass off. Know the stats and media say otherwise, but his hard nose style did impress me. He seemed to play through being hurt until finally had to leave the game. Petri was solid and as advertised.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I really enjoyed watching the action live and seeing first hand how players perform and what you don’t see on TV. Body language, match-ups you choose to dissect, nobody telling you something don’t need to know, just pure, unadulterated football. Admittedly just one game, but the game I saw….. expressed my opinion …….. who disappointed me …… was really looking forward to seeing him play in person.

Watched Salyer too, 6th rd rookie who hadn’t even practiced @ OT with the one’s before last week in his first starting game. Gave up no pressures and in fact, was the one doing the pancaking. So you tell me, was Greene the best pick for the Texans @ #13?

I’m just saying I was disappointed with his play, capped off with an ugly unsportsmanlike penalty end of the game, which I’m sure wasn’t televised. I can understand his frustration and learning curve but nothing at all what I expected to see from him.

Stingley on the other hand played his ass off. Know the stats and media say otherwise, but his hard nose style did impress me. He seemed to play through being hurt until finally had to leave the game. Petri was solid and as advertised.
I wanted Davis at 13, Green was my 2nd choice. What I really wanted and said so at the time was Davis in the 1st and Salyer in the 2nd. Build the trenches.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
They want to keep games close to justify their position.

I honestly think they have a better understanding of the team they have than the rest of us.

I mean we can imagine a game where DMill passes for 300 yards, 3 TDs, 0 INTs. But they know that’s not reality.

I don’t know Pep any better than you do. But if he’s not willing to risk his reputation/career on thiis team I don’t blame him.

I get what’s being said, it’s a matter of perspective. If we do this, that is most likely to happen. But that kind of thinking is born out of a laisez-fair not my bread & butter attitude.

This team is who we thought they were &. You’re conservative to a great degree until you see a reason to release some of that.

Pep hasn’t seen enough to be more aggressive than he is. I concur


But it’s coming
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I honestly think they have a better understanding of the team they have than the rest of us.

I mean we can imagine a game where DMill passes for 300 yards, 3 TDs, 0 INTs. But they know that’s not reality.

I don’t know Pep any better than you do. But if he’s not willing to risk his reputation/career on thiis team I don’t blame him.

I get what’s being said, it’s a matter of perspective. If we do this, that is most likely to happen. But that kind of thinking is born out of a laisez-fair not my bread & butter attitude.

This team is who we thought they were &. You’re conservative to a great degree until you see a reason to release some of that.

Pep hasn’t seen enough to be more aggressive than he is. I concur


But it’s coming
I'm with you until the last sentence. :brando:
 

Texansballer74

The Marine
I honestly think they have a better understanding of the team they have than the rest of us.

I mean we can imagine a game where DMill passes for 300 yards, 3 TDs, 0 INTs. But they know that’s not reality.

I don’t know Pep any better than you do. But if he’s not willing to risk his reputation/career on thiis team I don’t blame him.

I get what’s being said, it’s a matter of perspective. If we do this, that is most likely to happen. But that kind of thinking is born out of a laisez-fair not my bread & butter attitude.

This team is who we thought they were &. You’re conservative to a great degree until you see a reason to release some of that.

Pep hasn’t seen enough to be more aggressive than he is. I concur


But it’s coming
Last year against the Titans Mills threw for 300 yards and 3 touchdowns with 0 interceptions. He threw for 331 yards 1 touchdown and 0 interceptions against the Seahawks. So I do not believe that’s the case at all because dude has thrown over 300 yards twice. The problem is coaching doesn’t understand or either just don’t know wtf they’re doing. Pep just won’t let him air it out deep, something he was pretty darn good at last season.

lol call it being conservative and scary. Or maybe they’re doing exactly what a lot of fans thinks, and that’s tanking.
 

TheRealJoker

Hall of Fame
I honestly think they have a better understanding of the team they have than the rest of us.

I mean we can imagine a game where DMill passes for 300 yards, 3 TDs, 0 INTs. But they know that’s not reality.

I don’t know Pep any better than you do. But if he’s not willing to risk his reputation/career on thiis team I don’t blame him.

I get what’s being said, it’s a matter of perspective. If we do this, that is most likely to happen. But that kind of thinking is born out of a laisez-fair not my bread & butter attitude.

This team is who we thought they were &. You’re conservative to a great degree until you see a reason to release some of that.

Pep hasn’t seen enough to be more aggressive than he is. I concur


But it’s coming

Mills went for 300+ yards 3 tds and 0 ints last season against two playoff teams. Why would those performances or something even remotely like that not be the reality this season?

 

beerlover

Hall of Fame
I wanted Davis at 13 and trade back up to 20 for Lloyd
:tiphat:

Linebackers are undervalued. Micha Parsons, case in point, then Lloyd next year. Davis is a freakish athlete with untapped potential. Still on fence with Hamilton but know he was in our discussions. Zion was higher graded by some Greene by others. Chargers needed interior stability, Zion had to be the pick for situation but Texans are different, they need playmakers @ positional value. QB, Edge and OT. When those options aren’t available, don’t reach for need just take bpa.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Mills went for 300+ yards 3 tds and 0 ints last season against two playoff teams. Why would those performances or something even remotely like that not be the reality this season?

Because they’re still installing the offense. After the bye, maybe we’ll see them open it up.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Because they’re still installing the offense. After the bye, maybe we’ll see them open it up.
Im not falling for the “after the bye” hope again. Lovie and Pep just need to get their heads out of their asses and challenge deep a bit more with the passing game. Stop trying to get everything off play action…let the kid drop back and sling it so he can fine tune his pocket awareness… use more tempo…Roll the pocket some…just No excuse for not doing more of that….
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
:tiphat:

Linebackers are undervalued. Micha Parsons, case in point, then Lloyd next year. Davis is a freakish athlete with untapped potential. Still on fence with Hamilton but know he was in our discussions. Zion was higher graded by some Greene by others. Chargers needed interior stability, Zion had to be the pick for situation but Texans are different, they need playmakers @ positional value. QB, Edge and OT. When those options aren’t available, don’t reach for need just take bpa.
Micah had superior physical traits during a covid season. He's a lb, nobody knew he could rush the qb like that because he didn't do it in college. Cowboys have been a great drafting team for awhile and they draft dudes. They draft big,physical dudes and develop them.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Im not falling for the “after the bye” hope again. Lovie and Pep just need to get their heads out of their asses and challenge deep a bit more with the passing game. Stop trying to get everything off play action…let the kid drop back and sling it so he can fine tune his pocket awareness… use more tempo…Roll the pocket some…just No excuse for not doing more of that….
And use a lot more pre-snap motion
 

Texansballer74

The Marine
Im not falling for the “after the bye” hope again. Lovie and Pep just need to get their heads out of their asses and challenge deep a bit more with the passing game. Stop trying to get everything off play action…let the kid drop back and sling it so he can fine tune his pocket awareness… use more tempo…Roll the pocket some…just No excuse for not doing more of that….
Lol bro exactly.
 

vtech9

All Pro
Technically you are correct, Arian had to work his way out of the dog house. When he got real playing time it was obvious he was great for Kubiaks system, so I was remembering his first real year, but agree as rookies I had it wrong
Foster was great for Kubiak's system, but if Foster was on the current Houston team, he wouldn't be as good as Pierce. Foster was just not going to break the tackles that Pierce has to on every play for this team, just to get anywhere. I think Pierce would have been successful in Kubiak's system as well, but probably not quite as successful as Foster, but who knows.
 

Rich Schmidt

Myopicone
Foster was great for Kubiak's system, but if Foster was on the current Houston team, he wouldn't be as good as Pierce. Foster was just not going to break the tackles that Pierce has to on every play for this team, just to get anywhere. I think Pierce would have been successful in Kubiak's system as well, but probably not quite as successful as Foster, but who knows.
I would say correct on both counts. Foster was a great one cut back, his vision to see the hole in the zone blocking, then the decisive cut was excellent. With this line, you need someone who can break tackles, that is DP
 

Earl34

All Pro
There are some obvious suspects for most disappointing Texans. However, Grugier-Hill and Kirksey should be considered major disappointments. Last year, they were brought in as veteran players, they overachieved, got new contracts and they have not played at the same level that they did last year.

They have been bad against the run and pass. Best case scenario, they were supposed to be average starters holding down the fort until Caserio could upgrade the talent. Worst case, they would be veteran mentors and quality depth. Right now, their lack of speed, discipline and terrible tackling should reduce their playing time.
 
Last edited:

justmy2cents

Veteran
Contributor's Club
Kenyon Green.
Don't like Jersey #59 for OG.
Concussion & nagging injuries early.
Had such high expectations
Not sure what he is anymore?
Passed on some great young players to address OL (that’s still bad) it only makes it hurt worse.
Corey Lindsey described ....
"Calm"
"Collected"
"Smart as Hell"

AND .... Ickey didn't even know if he would be better at LG or LT ! Stellar Lineman .... not limited to one position !
1665700815455.png
 

vtech9

All Pro
Hmmm....
Greenard is a good choice. I only noticed him on one play in this last game. For his position, that's not acceptable.

Mills is also a good choice. He looks to have regressed. he seems to have happy-feet in the pocket, and keeps sailing balls. He has to get better, and when we went up-tempo, he did look better.

Grugier-Hill and Kirksey. I'll put these two together. They've been atrocious. They seem to be out of position on damned near every play. They're not, but it seems that way since everyone only focuses on the big plays the defense gives up. They miss too many tackles, and generally aren't getting it done.

Roy Lopez...he doesn't look bad, but he doesn't look that good either. I seem to notice Hinish getting pressure more than I see it from Lopez, and Lopez is in the game more.

Ogbonnia Okoronkwo...Has he even played? I know he has, but really, where is he?

Lovie Smith. What can I say about Lovie? His defense has it's good moments, but man, it has it's bad ones as well, and the bad ones overpower that good ones. He's also made some head-scratching calls as the head coach. We keep seeing a lot of penalties, and that's on the coach for not fixing it.

My winner for most disappointing is Pep Hamilton. His play-calling seems to be even worse than that of TK. I always said there was no mystery in what Tim Kelley was going to do. Pep's playcalling does have some mystery to it, but the mystery is...why the hell did he call that play? or...what the hell was Pep thinking? or...why the hell was Burkhead in for that play? Pep isn't doing a good job of developing Mills. Pep doesn't seem to know how to scheme WR's open. I had high hopes for Pep, but he just seems to be a complete disappointment in my eyes.
I think I should add Cooks to this list. He's been another big disappointment.
 

The Pencil Neck

Hall of Fame
Right now, I'm going Britt.

By his... withdrawal... he left us with a choice of Quessenberry or Morrissey.

We need an experienced center in this offense, or at least one who gets the whole line on the same page and doing the right stuff. That, and Q just can't hold up against a lot of the NTs and DTs in this league. Without someone to stabilize the line, we get these almost free-runners right up the middle that blow everything up before it can even get started.
 
Right now, I'm going Britt.

By his... withdrawal... he left us with a choice of Quessenberry or Morrissey.

We need an experienced center in this offense, or at least one who gets the whole line on the same page and doing the right stuff. That, and Q just can't hold up against a lot of the NTs and DTs in this league. Without someone to stabilize the line, we get these almost free-runners right up the middle that blow everything up before it can even get started.
Yep. Hopefully we can find a guy like Lindenbaum or Jason Kelce on Day 2. So many holes on this roster the draft can go a number of different directions... C is right up there. However, I feel OLB and DL is #1 priority.
 
I feel ILB a bigger need than OLB
Respectfully disagree. Not just because of the possible emergence of Christian Harris, but because we have nobody that can control the edge or blitz off the edge. But splitting hairs - could use both for sure. It's too bad we haven't gotten more clarity on John Greenard being a foundation piece. Didn't look like it before he got injured.
 
Right now, I'm going Britt.

By his... withdrawal... he left us with a choice of Quessenberry or Morrissey.

We need an experienced center in this offense, or at least one who gets the whole line on the same page and doing the right stuff. That, and Q just can't hold up against a lot of the NTs and DTs in this league. Without someone to stabilize the line, we get these almost free-runners right up the middle that blow everything up before it can even get started.
Just rewatching some tape here of the game with The QB School on youtube. Damn like 4 plays where Quessenberry just totally owned up the middle and host is saying "You can't play quarterback in this league like this, nobody can." With Britt DOA convinced Mills or whoever the new QB is needs a Center... badly.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Respectfully disagree. Not just because of the possible emergence of Christian Harris, but because we have nobody that can control the edge or blitz off the edge. But splitting hairs - could use both for sure. It's too bad we haven't gotten more clarity on John Greenard being a foundation piece. Didn't look like it before he got injured.
You forget that Lovie plays a 4-3...Harris is an OLB, Greenard a DE. Texans need DT, DE and ILB
 
Stingley hasn't looked bad. He's a man cover CB, playing mostly zone in Lovie's defense, and not doing too bad.
The money question is why is Lovie using him this way? Lack of talent at other positions? Or does zone lessen the opportunities to stress his foot...just trying to understand.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Just rewatching some tape here of the game with The QB School on youtube. Damn like 4 plays where Quessenberry just totally owned up the middle and host is saying "You can't play quarterback in this league like this, nobody can." With Britt DOA convinced Mills or whoever the new QB is needs a Center... badly.
I like what I'm seeing from 4 of the 5 OLmen. & I think Q is doing well, considering. I would think a competent Line coach, OC, & HC could make that line work.

If there's a stud that for some reason falls to the 4th or 5th round, or an undervalued FA that we can acquire, fine. But I don't want to spend day 1 or 2 picks on a Center. Offensive skill positions & defensive front 7 only.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
I like what I'm seeing from 4 of the 5 OLmen. & I think Q is doing well, considering. I would think a competent Line coach, OC, & HC could make that line work.

If there's a stud that for some reason falls to the 4th or 5th round, or an undervalued FA that we can acquire, fine. But I don't want to spend day 1 or 2 picks on a Center. Offensive skill positions & defensive front 7 only.
I would much rather have a competent vet than a rookie at center unless you can get a Linderbaum. But I don't think Q is the answer
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
the consensus was that Stingley would fit Lovie's defensive scheme better than Sauce.
& Lovie is a cover two zone defense zealot. At least that’s what we’ve seen last two years.

He said the secondary in 2021 wasn’t good enough to do what he wanted to do upfront.

He said he wanted Stingley to follow the best WR on the field, but puts him in zone more times than not.

& they still can’t stop the run.

I’m wondering if his front 7 is allowing him to call the defensive backfield the way he wants.
 

vtech9

All Pro
& Lovie is a cover two zone defense zealot. At least that’s what we’ve seen last two years.

He said the secondary in 2021 wasn’t good enough to do what he wanted to do upfront.

He said he wanted Stingley to follow the best WR on the field, but puts him in zone more times than not.

& they still can’t stop the run.

I’m wondering if his front 7 is allowing him to call the defensive backfield the way he wants.
Who's to blame for that? Caserio brought back the guys that Lovie wanted to keep, and drafted the LB Lovie wanted. It's usually the coaches decision on who gets cut in training camp, so when Blacklock and Johnson were cut, I have to think that was Lovie's decision. Now Johnson is back, and seems to be better than when he left, so do we have a problem with developing talent? The same thing happened with Jordan Akins. He was cut, and then comes back to be our best TE? Why? The obvious answer is that our coaches suck.
 


Top