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Mom, is a Wunderlic of 4 Real Guuuuuud?

Please read my quoted response.

So your assertion is that it now has no real relation to IQ, but now has come to be a representative of how much you are really willing to dedicate yourself to a test that cannot gauge at all the success you will or will not have in the NFL?

I guess he really has shown no dedication at all in coming out of the shadow of Patrick Peterson last year and has only managed to garner numerous awards for his on the field play and has managed to stay out of trouble off of it.

Far as his ability to digest a play book, guess you'll have to ask Les Miles didn't seem to have too much trouble digesting the play book for one of the continually toughest defenses in the nation.
 
So your assertion is that it now has no real relation to IQ, but now has come to be a representative of how much you are really willing to dedicate yourself to a test that cannot gauge at all the success you will or will not have in the NFL?

I guess he really has shown no dedication at all in coming out of the shadow of Patrick Peterson last year and has only managed to garner numerous awards for his on the field play and has managed to stay out of trouble off of it.

Far as his ability to digest a play book, guess you'll have to ask Les Miles didn't seem to have too much trouble digesting the play book for one of the continually toughest defenses in the nation.

Um, no. That's not what I said.

The way it was originally designed was to be used as an IQ test. However, with so many versions of it out now and the fact that players study for it, it no longer has validity as an IQ measure.

You seem to think the only thing that is important is on the field production. That is important, but not the only thing. I think what's equally, if not more important is film study and dedication to learning one's playbook. He has played very well in the LSU defense but college success does not necessarily translate to professional success. There are lots of college players who have tons of natural skill but don't put forth the additional effort one they hit the NFL. At the NFL level EVERYONE is athletically gifted and the players that stick around are the ones who put in the work watching tape and studying their playbook meticulously. There are tons of stories of players with high talent that flame out in the NFL becuase they didn't have the drive to get better. Peyton Manning is not considered one of the best becuase of his natural abilities alone, it is becuase he spends HOURS in the film room dissecting defenses, refining his knowledge of his playbook, and working with his receivers. He gives EXTRA effort.

Again, his score is NOT reflective of his IQ, it is reflective of his effort. Everyone who attends the combine knows they will receive a Wonderlic. Every agent worth his salt knows that it is possible to study for and improve one's score on the test. So, why did he not take a practice one, gauge his weaknesses and then improve his score? If he really has an LD, why didn't he request appropriate accommodations? Why didn't he try out numerous practice versions to work on better strategies to take the test? From where I sit, it seems he knew he had reading difficulties and then walked into the test cold and didn't really have a plan of action. THAT suggests he was not prepared to take the test and did not put forth the effort required to be ready for it. The wonderlich is a single data point.

I have not looked at a ton of film on him, but it seemed he was pretty much a man-man corner. That is not a complex job for a CB. Stick to your man and don't let him catch the ball/make a big play. I don't recall very much zone, pass offs, fakes etc.

I will take nothing away from his on the field accomplishments. But, if I was going to invest that much money into him, I want to have a sense of his dedication. The wonderlich is a SINGLE factor in that, not the whole.
 
Blaine Gabbert - 42
Ryan Leaf - 27

Dan Marino - 15
Donovan McNabb - 14

Does anyone think these Wonderlic scores were indicative of these players' abilities to assimilate a NFL playbook?
 
Blaine Gabbert - 42
Ryan Leaf - 27

Dan Marino - 15
Donovan McNabb - 14

Does anyone think these Wonderlic scores were indicative of these players' abilities to assimilate a NFL playbook?
Bingo. We could only be so lucky as to have him on our team.
 
Blaine Gabbert - 42
Ryan Leaf - 27

Dan Marino - 15
Donovan McNabb - 14

Does anyone think these Wonderlic scores were indicative of these players' abilities to assimilate a NFL playbook?

There are always exceptions to every rule. Assimilating the NFL playbook is just one data point.

What are your thoughts on my other point? The issue of effort?
 
What are your thoughts on my other point? The issue of effort?
What about my point regarding the correlation of Wonderlic scores to NFL success? Why is this test relevant? And if it's not relevant, either to draft position or future NFL success, why is it being discussed?

Here's the question that should be asked: Why did someone release this low score on Claiborne? All NFL teams are privileged to the information. Could it be a team that may pass on Claiborne, but would want to deflect criticism for doing so? Makes me wonder.
 
What about my point regarding the correlation of Wonderlic scores to NFL success? Why is this test relevant? And if it's not relevant, either to draft position or future NFL success, why is it being discussed?

Here's the question that should be asked: Why did someone release this low score on Claiborne? All NFL teams are privileged to the information. Could it be a team that may pass on Claiborne, but would want to deflect criticism for doing so? Makes me wonder.
If anything, they did it to try to help lower his draft status. If they want him at a lower pick, then they will release it to hurt him. It's disgusting and wrong and I really wish the NFL would crack down harder on these leaks of confidential info.
 
If anything, they did it to try to help lower his draft status. If they want him at a lower pick, then they will release it to hurt him. It's disgusting and wrong and I really wish the NFL would crack down harder on these leaks of confidential info.

Release it to who?

Don't all NFL teams already have access to these results?

How would telling someone something they already know do anything?
 
What about my point regarding the correlation of Wonderlic scores to NFL success? Why is this test relevant? And if it's not relevant, either to draft position or future NFL success, why is it being discussed?

Here's the question that should be asked: Why did someone release this low score on Claiborne? All NFL teams are privileged to the information. Could it be a team that may pass on Claiborne, but would want to deflect criticism for doing so? Makes me wonder.

I would say the Wonderlic is a good test of intelligence IF it is administered properly. I would say it is NOT administered properly.

Validity of the test is lowered each time a person takes a practice version. I wouldn't even be surprised if some agents got a hold of the actual test questions and taught their players half the test.

But, I contend the test is not relevant for intelligence. I think it gets at motivation. I would say some of the events at the combine have very little to do with actual football skill. What it shows his whether an athlete took the time to show up in shape. A failure to show up in shape (as seen with slower than expected 40 times, fewer reps on the bench), dropping balls (suggesting being rusty and not practicing), etc can get at a player's dedication to the game.

In college a lot of these guys were stars and didn't need to work very hard to get there. The wonderlic, the combine events, and other skills events can shed light on how much the player has done since the season ended. Have they put on weight and gotten doughy or have they continued to live in the gym.

Here is a true story. I had a grad school buddy of mine who used to play DII football at Augustana College. One of his teammates was invited to the combine. My buddy went to the gym twice a day and tried to get the teammate to go with him, but the teammate pretty much refused. He tried to get him to study for his Wonderlic, but he never did. When the combine came around the two of them went. The teammate bombed the wonderlic, showed up in terrible shape, and went from a guy who was considered low second round to UDFA. He went to the Arena league with my buddy for a couple of years. He then bounced around a few teams and was out of the league a couple of years later.
 
As others have pointed out, there are many "tools" in life that most of those with learning disabilities can learn to use in order to, at least, partially compensate for their problem, not least of which requires hard work.

But if, indeed, Claiborne does suffer from a significant "learning disability," for a seasoned agent like Cook (20 years of experience,) it is far from a little oversight that he would know nothing about it, especially since a compensatory candidate learning ability evaluation and associated scoring adjustment mechanism was available if appropriate.

Combine president says an accommodation is available for the Wonderlic

Tuesday’s disclosure that LSU cornerback Morris Claiborne scored a four on the Wonderlic raises important questions about the general intelligence test administered every year at the Scouting Combine and elsewhere, including by individual teams during player visits.

And so, for a change, I decided to try to find some answers.

Although agent Bus Cook claimed in response to the news that he’s aware of no “deficiency” in Claiborne, multiple reports indicate that Claiborne has a learning disability. If that’s true (and we have no reason to believe it isn’t), Cook should have known - and Cook could have obtained an accommodation for Claiborne when taking the test.

Jeff Foster, president of National Scouting and the National Invitational Camp (otherwise known as the Scouting Combine), explained to PFT by phone on Wednesday the procedure used when a player has a learning disability. Foster said that, in such cases, the player communicates the existence of the disability in advance of the test. Then, documentation of the disability is obtained from the athlete’s school, and research is done regarding the accommodations provided to the player when taking tests at his college.

Once the learning disability is confirmed, Wonderlic will authorize an “untimed accommodation.” Under this approach, the player takes the 50-question test within the 12-minute allotment. That effort is scored separately, and the player is then permitted to continue taking the test for as long as he needs to complete it. The Wonderlic people later apply a formula to determine the score based on the answers supplied during the 12-minute window and the answers coming thereafter.

And so, frankly, it all falls back once again to the agent. Although, at some level, the player has the responsibility to bring his situation to the attention of those administering the test, the procedure to obtain an untimed accommodation requires advance effort, which means the agent needs to know that a player has a learning disability, and the agent must thereafter start making calls for the person from whom the agent will eventually be making money. (The universities also should be aware of this wrinkle, and they should be ready to initiate the process on behalf of their students.)

Claiborne’s situation gives rise to a separate topic that we mentioned on Tuesday, and that Dan Patrick has been advancing for months: Players should simply refuse to submit to the test. Foster said that hasn’t happened, yet.

“To my knowledge, we haven’t had anyone say they’re not taking the Wonderlic test,” Foster said. “Attendance is optional, as well as any pieces of the event. If they refused, we would just note that to the teams, and they wouldn’t have a score.”

Foster added that he “doesn’t think that would be a positive” for the athlete, but we continue to believe that not taking the test at all is better than taking it and getting a single-digit score, especially since only Vince Young got the benefit of a do-over that pushed his score into the teens.

The fact that the numbers inevitably are leaked supports the concept of a boycott. Foster explained that the results are sent via hard copy to one person with each team: the G.M. or the person holding the equivalent job. Once the information gets to one member of each of the 32 teams, nothing prevents them from telling others the scores - and there’s no way the NFL or anyone can find out how the information got out.

Given that the information will always get out, and that numbers at each extreme will always be newsworthy, the league needs to revisit its approach and reconsider whether the Wonderlic should even be administered at the Scouting Combine, or by the NFL at all. Maybe, in the end, the test should be given by the colleges that the players attend, especially since the colleges have a clear interest in ensuring that the student-athletes avoid creating the impression that they were athletes only and not students during their time in school.
 
Release it to who?

Don't all NFL teams already have access to these results?

How would telling someone something they already know do anything?

Perception is reality. The teams have to request the Wonderlic score. If a team that wants him but thinks another team may take a chance a few picks higher, they release the low Wonderlic and the perception of the player becomes that he's a "dummy" and his perceived value goes down. It may or may not work, but it's a no lose situation for the teams because they won't get punished for releasing confidential information to the media.

Regardless of WHY they did it, it was still wrong. The results are SUPPOSED to be confidential and not be released to the media or general public.
 
In the end he will probably still be drafted.

he won't last past the early picks. Deion Sanders made something like a 7 if I remember right....that sure hurt him and the teams that he played for.
 
he won't last past the early picks. Deion Sanders made something like a 7 if I remember right....that sure hurt him and the teams that he played for.
See, you just don't know. Do you? He better put in the time in the books though or he'll be out of the NFL like that.
 
he won't last past the early picks. Deion Sanders made something like a 7 if I remember right....that sure hurt him and the teams that he played for.


Darrelle Revis 10........no real Rhodes scholar in this CB group. But Revis is at least nearing QB level.:kitten:
 
I would say the Wonderlic is a good test of intelligence IF it is administered properly. I would say it is NOT administered properly.

Validity of the test is lowered each time a person takes a practice version. I wouldn't even be surprised if some agents got a hold of the actual test questions and taught their players half the test.

But, I contend the test is not relevant for intelligence. I think it gets at motivation. I would say some of the events at the combine have very little to do with actual football skill. What it shows his whether an athlete took the time to show up in shape. A failure to show up in shape (as seen with slower than expected 40 times, fewer reps on the bench), dropping balls (suggesting being rusty and not practicing), etc can get at a player's dedication to the game.

In college a lot of these guys were stars and didn't need to work very hard to get there. The wonderlic, the combine events, and other skills events can shed light on how much the player has done since the season ended. Have they put on weight and gotten doughy or have they continued to live in the gym.

Here is a true story. I had a grad school buddy of mine who used to play DII football at Augustana College. One of his teammates was invited to the combine. My buddy went to the gym twice a day and tried to get the teammate to go with him, but the teammate pretty much refused. He tried to get him to study for his Wonderlic, but he never did. When the combine came around the two of them went. The teammate bombed the wonderlic, showed up in terrible shape, and went from a guy who was considered low second round to UDFA. He went to the Arena league with my buddy for a couple of years. He then bounced around a few teams and was out of the league a couple of years later.

I would probably say showing up OUT OF SHAPE was a bigger reason for dropping, not his wunderlich score.

Yes, I am more interested in game tape then a Wunderlich score. I am more interested in the fact he garnered All-American Honors and other awards for his play. Yeah, I am more interested in his 3 cone, shuttle and how well he played man coverage. IMO I think shutdown man corners are the hardest position to find in the NFL. Zone defenses tend to mask lack of high end speed and size. The guy has both and excelled in man coverage. That's what I am interested in.

IF it really is just ONE of the measures for effort as you put it...why do you and a few others seem to be making it a BIG deal. As Lucky has pointed out wel as I have what real relevance does it have?
 
All he needs to know is that he is man to man on the other teams best receiver. I am sure he can handle that.
 
It's actually pretty common knowledge that Claiborne has a learning disability. I've been hearing about it since he came out of high school.

I would assume that the teams interested in him would know about it too. So it wouldn't hurt him to just take the test anyway. It would look worse if he just refused to take it.

The info about his score was probably leaked by a team hoping he will fall to them.

I have a friend who went to a Houston area school and then played baseball at LSU. He said that classes there are big, easy, and the students are nice guys....That being said, classes are big and students are nice people probably at any big school.
 
See, you just don't know. Do you? He better put in the time in the books though or he'll be out of the NFL like that.

Actually, we sort of do know, Claiborne is going to be drafted in the top half of the first round of the NFL draft. He is going to sign for more guaranteed money than many (really most) people make in a life time. He is going to get 3 or 4 to years in the NFL pretty much not matter what he does on the field because of the investment that a team has.

While he may blow every single cent of his money , he does not have look at any book that is not a playbook (which he will get plenty of time to do) ever again in his life.

He has a marketable skill that the world overvalues in terms of day-in, day-out importance. Not truly fair, but at least in his intial financial life that 4 on his Wunderlic means next to nothing.
 
Actually, we sort of do know, Claiborne is going to be drafted in the top half of the first round of the NFL draft. He is going to sign for more guaranteed money than many (really most) people make in a life time. He is going to get 3 or 4 to years in the NFL pretty much not matter what he does on the field because of the investment that a team has.

While he may blow every single cent of his money , he does not have look at any book that is not a playbook (which he will get plenty of time to do) ever again in his life.

He has a marketable skill that the world overvalues in terms of day-in, day-out importance. Not truly fair, but at least in his intial financial life that 4 on his Wunderlic means next to nothing.
No, I mean how he'll play in the NFL is what we do not know he might still be good if he puts in the collared work necessary to succeed like others who have scored low before him have done.
 
I've got a better idea. They should make them all public. Maybe the impending threat of public humiliation might inspire some of these guys to attempt to learn something while they're in college.

You're right. I personally like the fact that some jocks are forced into 3 years of school, they might not turn out like complete morons in case their NFL career never picks up.

Wønderl337z0r is teh r0xz0rz!!!11!"!!
 
What kind of job required you to take a Wonderlic test?

Plenty of them. My wife (see post a couple pages back) had to take it to test/quality control healthcare software. Most of the employees no matter the level were required as I understand it.
 
The kid has a very difficult time reading and did ending up doing well in his classes using alternative learning and testing methods.

If being able to read a few sentences takes a few minutes, those 12 testing minutes will fly by and you won't get to answer very many questions.

Amazing how some people on here insist on mocking a guy whom everyone on the NFL knew has a hard time with reading and written tests. I heard on the radio that agents of players with learning and testing disabilities we start telling them to decline taking the Wonderlic, same as guys who decline to throw or run at the combines.

This makes sense to me. If my agent knows I have reading issues due to dyslexia or whatever, why the hell would he let me take that test? If he doesn't know enough about me to know of my learning disability, then he isn't on the job. In either case I'd fire his butt.
 
Perception is reality. The teams have to request the Wonderlic score. If a team that wants him but thinks another team may take a chance a few picks higher, they release the low Wonderlic and the perception of the player becomes that he's a "dummy" and his perceived value goes down. It may or may not work, but it's a no lose situation for the teams because they won't get punished for releasing confidential information to the media.

Regardless of WHY they did it, it was still wrong. The results are SUPPOSED to be confidential and not be released to the media or general public.

The conspiracy theorist in me believes this is what is going on in this case. Someone with their pick in the mid teens wants him but doesn't want (or cannot afford) to trade up.
 
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