Mocking Madness - of just a little try by a german guy...

[LikeMike]

Hi guys,

so this is it. My mock draft this year. As always I haven`t seen a lot of college football this year - I´ve just read a lot and made up this list. I know that I was kinda optimistic with some of these players, but hey, I´m a German so that`s ok.

1. Dontari Poe NT - Yeah, after the combine there is a good chance that he will be gone by this point. Dude is a beast and probably a future All-Star. Would make our D-Line/OLBs practically unstopable. And since Blackmon and Floyd should be long gone he is my no brainer if he is still on the board.

2. Nick Toon WR - Here is our future #2 receiver. Toon is the son of a pro football WR with good measurables and a high football IQ. He is very pro-ready and should be able to start this season. No big upside as a true Nr.1 but a pretty sure thing at WR2.

3. Brandon Washingten OG - He is still a little raw and probably needs some time to develope, but he has all the physical skill you might ask for. He should be able to be a back up his first year and should find his way into our starting line up in one or two years.

4. Joe Adams WR - A four year starter with an exceptional senior bowl. He is a little small, but he should have a great career as a slot receiver. Has great speed and great rac ability, and should help at KR and PR right away. He needs to work on his hands and make some smarter decisions though.

5. J.K. Schaffer ILB - A little small for an ILB but that dude is a player. 114 tackles with 12.5 tackles for a loss, 3.5 sacks, three interceptions, three forced fumbles and six passes broken up last season alone. He will need to adjust to pro level, but he could be the sleeper of the draft.

6. Kellen Moore QB - People don`t believe he can make the transition to the NFL. But he is a player I am willing on taking a chance on. Had an oustanding college career and is full of passion for the game. Let Kubiak work his magic on him. Also drafting a QB here means, we can cut Leinart and save a couple of bucks.

7. Chris Jacobson G - Had a little trouble with a knee injury last year, but is the perfect player to take a chance on in the 7th round. Perfectly build for a zone blocking scheme and might be able to play some center as well.

That`s it. Let me know what you think.

Mike

 

[badboy]

Being unable to watch games is a negative and effects me also on some guys such as Poe whom I also have @ #26.

I watched Toon and he can be off as much as on and I would not draft him.

Washington is intriguing as he can play all spots but center if needed. Should be good left guard with great size/decent skills. Has been noted to have a mean streak whicj Texans will love. I have him rated early 3rd so probably gone.

Adams? I'm pimping Jordan White & Broyles in 4th and feel strongly both are better than Adams.

Kellen Moore, I agree.

Enjoyed the thread.

 

[LikeMike]

Thanks for the reply. Is there a 2nd round WR you would draft? Randle, Hill and Sanu should be gone by our pick...

I don`t think Broyles will make it to our pick in the 4th. I like him more than Adams, but I think if we want him, we have to take him in the 3d. Not sure about Jordan White - he kinda seems like a guy, that benefitted from the lower competition...

 

[bah007]

Dontari Poe - I certainly hope the combine pushes this guy up high because I want no part of him. Future All Star? I don't see this guy making our DL/OLBs unstoppable. Memphis gave up 491 yards per game this year. Now obviously, he isn't the only guy to blame for that. But Memphis' DL/LBs were definitely far from unstoppable. Good players play on bad teams all the time but where is his impact?? Why does a guy this big, strong, and athletic not stand out against Conference USA competition?

Nick Toon - I like Toon. There are other guys I would look at but I think he is a more athletic version of Kevin Walter. Will never be a #1 but he can block and pick up first downs.

Brandon Washington - I love his versatility. Great pick here. He is raw right now but I like his potential to develop.

Joe Adams - Don't mind this pick at all. He is a better slot WR than Jacoby and he can help on special teams.

J.K. Schaffer - No problem here either. Solid depth.

Kellen Moore - Give me Austin Davis instead. I love Moore as a college player. But there is nothing here for NFL potential. Wasted pick, in my opinion.

Chris Jacobson - Great depth pick here. Can play G/C.

 

[bah007]

Thanks for the reply. Is there a 2nd round WR you would draft? Randle, Hill and Sanu should be gone by our pick...

I don`t think Broyles will make it to our pick in the 4th. I like him more than Adams, but I think if we want him, we have to take him in the 3d. Not sure about Jordan White - he kinda seems like a guy, that benefitted from the lower competition...

I like Juron Criner, Dwight Jones, or Marvin McNutt in the 3rd round.

I'm really hoping for Sanu in the 2nd though.

 

[amazing80]

Hi guys,

so this is it. My mock draft this year. As always I haven`t seen a lot of college football this year - I´ve just read a lot and made up this list. I know that I was kinda optimistic with some of these players, but hey, I´m a German so that`s ok.

1. Dontari Poe NT - Yeah, after the combine there is a good chance that he will be gone by this point. Dude is a beast and probably a future All-Star. Would make our D-Line/OLBs practically unstopable. And since Blackmon and Floyd should be long gone he is my no brainer if he is still on the board.

2. Nick Toon WR - Here is our future #2 receiver. Toon is the son of a pro football WR with good measurables and a high football IQ. He is very pro-ready and should be able to start this season. No big upside as a true Nr.1 but a pretty sure thing at WR2.

3. Brandon Washingten OG - He is still a little raw and probably needs some time to develope, but he has all the physical skill you might ask for. He should be able to be a back up his first year and should find his way into our starting line up in one or two years.

4. Joe Adams WR - A four year starter with an exceptional senior bowl. He is a little small, but he should have a great career as a slot receiver. Has great speed and great rac ability, and should help at KR and PR right away. He needs to work on his hands and make some smarter decisions though.

5. J.K. Schaffer ILB - A little small for an ILB but that dude is a player. 114 tackles with 12.5 tackles for a loss, 3.5 sacks, three interceptions, three forced fumbles and six passes broken up last season alone. He will need to adjust to pro level, but he could be the sleeper of the draft.

6. Kellen Moore QB - People don`t believe he can make the transition to the NFL. But he is a player I am willing on taking a chance on. Had an oustanding college career and is full of passion for the game. Let Kubiak work his magic on him. Also drafting a QB here means, we can cut Leinart and save a couple of bucks.

7. Chris Jacobson G - Had a little trouble with a knee injury last year, but is the perfect player to take a chance on in the 7th round. Perfectly build for a zone blocking scheme and might be able to play some center as well.

That`s it. Let me know what you think.

Mike

Not a bad draft. Poe will most likely be gone by our pick but if there he is a great player.

Im ok with Toon, he will fit in well here. Great blocker and solid hands.

Im ok with everything else except for drafting a qb, we have our top 2 guys, we need to sign a veteran if we let Leinart go...JMO

 

[Rey]

Dontari Poe - I certainly hope the combine pushes this guy up high because I want no part of him. Future All Star? I don't see this guy making our DL/OLBs unstoppable. Memphis gave up 491 yards per game this year. Now obviously, he isn't the only guy to blame for that. But Memphis' DL/LBs were definitely far from unstoppable. Good players play on bad teams all the time but where is his impact?? Why does a guy this big, strong, and athletic not stand out against Conference USA competition?

There is no guarantee that Poe will be good in the NFL, but to answer your question: Coaching plays a big role in a players development and play on the field.

You can be big, strong and determined, but if you don't have good coaches putting you in good positions and teaching you the right things to do then it makes it harder on you. We've seen guys get better before with competent coaching.

I don't know if this is the case with Poe, but I think with him coming from Memphis it's entirely possible that a good coaching staff in the NFL could at the very least make him into a good starter.

It's not like he was awful and soft at Memphis...he just didn't show up as much as people would have liked him to.

 

[bah007]

There is no guarantee that Poe will be good in the NFL, but to answer your question: Coaching plays a big role in a players development and play on the field.

You can be big, strong and determined, but if you don't have good coaches putting you in good positions and teaching you the right things to do then it makes it harder on you. We've seen guys get better before with competent coaching.

I don't know if this is the case with Poe, but I think with him coming from Memphis it's entirely possible that a good coaching staff in the NFL could at the very least make him into a good starter.

It's not like he was awful and soft at Memphis...he just didn't show up as much as people would have liked him to.

I'm not going to disagree with you there. But there is a track record for guys who are taken really high only because of their athleticism, with no on field production to back it up. And that track record isn't good at all.

It's true that poor coaching can have an effect on players. Hell, we've seen it here. But it's also true that if a guy is an absolutely phenomenal talent, he can usually be a productive player regardless of coaching. Especially when you consider that the level of competition he was playing against isn't even in his league.

Think about it. Poe is probably 35-40 lbs bigger than anybody that ever tried to block him. But not only that, he is twice as strong, twice as quick, and twice as fast as the best lineman he has ever faced. In that situation, coaching shouldn't be too big of a detriment.

I'm not saying that Poe will absolutely, 100% be a bust. But I am predicting it. People seem to think that there is a correlation between 40 times, bench press, and football ability. But there isn't.

 

[WolverineFan]

I'm not going to disagree with you there. But there is a track record for guys who are taken really high only because of their athleticism, with no on field production to back it up. And that track record isn't good at all.

It's true that poor coaching can have an effect on players. Hell, we've seen it here. But it's also true that if a guy is an absolutely phenomenal talent, he can usually be a productive player regardless of coaching. Especially when you consider that the level of competition he was playing against isn't even in his league.

Think about it. Poe is probably 35-40 lbs bigger than anybody that ever tried to block him. But not only that, he is twice as strong, twice as quick, and twice as fast as the best lineman he has ever faced. In that situation, coaching shouldn't be too big of a detriment.

I'm not saying that Poe will absolutely, 100% be a bust. But I am predicting it. People seem to think that there is a correlation between 40 times, bench press, and football ability. But there isn't.

Wow, agree with all.

If Poe was the beast many seem to think he is, then he would have showed it at Memphis. If he can't dominate the C-USA then how can he dominate the NFL? This is post combine hype, happens with 2-3 guys every year.

 

[amazing80]

Wow, agree with all.

If Poe was the beast many seem to think he is, then he would have showed it at Memphis. If he can't dominate the C-USA then how can he dominate the NFL? This is post combine hype, happens with 2-3 guys every year.

Yup because every star in the NFL DOMINATED college and every bust sucked in college

ignorance

 

[Rey]

I'm not going to disagree with you there. But there is a track record for guys who are taken really high only because of their athleticism, with no on field production to back it up. And that track record isn't good at all.

It's true that poor coaching can have an effect on players. Hell, we've seen it here. But it's also true that if a guy is an absolutely phenomenal talent, he can usually be a productive player regardless of coaching. Especially when you consider that the level of competition he was playing against isn't even in his league.

Think about it. Poe is probably 35-40 lbs bigger than anybody that ever tried to block him. But not only that, he is twice as strong, twice as quick, and twice as fast as the best lineman he has ever faced. In that situation, coaching shouldn't be too big of a detriment.

I'm not saying that Poe will absolutely, 100% be a bust. But I am predicting it. People seem to think that there is a correlation between 40 times, bench press, and football ability. But there isn't.

I've watched a little bit of Poe and from what I've seen teams did everything they could to stay away from him. If anyone was getting doubled it was him. He didn't show a lack of effort or hustle. He is explosive off the ball and very tough to block.

He can improve his recognition and he can improve on re-routing to the ball carrier. Too often he explodes off the line, has the OL beat but fails to re-adjust and is pushed away.

But the guy is a football player. Their secondary was not very good at all. It looked like the Texans old pass defense.

I think if Poe goes to the right situation with a good defensive coaching staff they are going to develop him into a very good DT. I think he is can develop into the must double team type of guy.

I think if you put Poe in the middle of this defense we'd give O-lines nightmares thinking about how they would stop us.

You keep talkin about "lack of production" but there can be reasons for that. Especially as a DT....

What exactly is it that you don't like about how he actually plays?

 

[badboy]

I'm not going to disagree with you there. But there is a track record for guys who are taken really high only because of their athleticism, with no on field production to back it up. And that track record isn't good at all.

It's true that poor coaching can have an effect on players. Hell, we've seen it here. But it's also true that if a guy is an absolutely phenomenal talent, he can usually be a productive player regardless of coaching. Especially when you consider that the level of competition he was playing against isn't even in his league.

Think about it. Poe is probably 35-40 lbs bigger than anybody that ever tried to block him. But not only that, he is twice as strong, twice as quick, and twice as fast as the best lineman he has ever faced. In that situation, coaching shouldn't be too big of a detriment.

I'm not saying that Poe will absolutely, 100% be a bust. But I am predicting it. People seem to think that there is a correlation between 40 times, bench press, and football ability. But there isn't.

Poe will be as big, as strong and as fast as almost anyone he faces in NFL. In Wade's defense he should excell especially with his strength and speed against NFL centers and OGs. All he has to do is clog middle and he can do that better than Cody.

 

[76Texan]

I'm not going to disagree with you there. But there is a track record for guys who are taken really high only because of their athleticism, with no on field production to back it up. And that track record isn't good at all.

It's true that poor coaching can have an effect on players. Hell, we've seen it here. But it's also true that if a guy is an absolutely phenomenal talent, he can usually be a productive player regardless of coaching. Especially when you consider that the level of competition he was playing against isn't even in his league.

Think about it. Poe is probably 35-40 lbs bigger than anybody that ever tried to block him. But not only that, he is twice as strong, twice as quick, and twice as fast as the best lineman he has ever faced. In that situation, coaching shouldn't be too big of a detriment.

I'm not saying that Poe will absolutely, 100% be a bust. But I am predicting it. People seem to think that there is a correlation between 40 times, bench press, and football ability. But there isn't.

I haven't been able to watch the linemen drill at the combine.
How is his pad level?

I've noted in one of the thread that from about 20 plays or so I've seen him in college, he's more of a penetrator than I thought a big guy like him would be.
He wasn't BJ Raji-quick, but he was bigger than Raji.

It was difficult to observe line play on those college tapes since the quality is not very good.
I did note that on some plays, people were able to run around him.
With his quickness and his strength, it's hard to imagine.
He wsn't able to disengage from the O-lineman quick enough; It's probably technique and a lack of understanding of blocking schemes.

I just wish I have more game tapes on him.
But overall, I did like him on the little I was able to observe.
The guy did jump up and batted down a pass; he's no clumsy fat lineman.

 

[76Texan]

BTW, guys, I enjoy reading all the mocks.

But as I cannot give out much comment because I like to watch the prospects play quite a bit (at least 3 or 4 games just concentrating on him) before I can do that, and it's just too hard to do.

I wish I can split myself into a dozen clones and watch football all day long X 12.

 

[bah007]

...You keep talkin about "lack of production" but there can be reasons for that. Especially as a DT....

What exactly is it that you don't like about how he actually plays?

I don't mean production in terms of stats. I mean production in terms of impact. How does he make an impact and produce for his team?

I admit I've seen about six games worth of footage on Poe. It's not easy to find. And I don't absolutely hate the guy. But I think he needs serious coaching at the next level. You aren't just gonna plug this guy in and have an All Pro, as many people seem to think because of his combine numbers.

I've got a mid-late 2nd round grade on him and I think he has serious bust potential. If he explodes and turns into Ngata then you guys can laugh in my face but this is my feeling on him. I obviously seem to be in the minority.

Despite his strength and size, Poe doesn't play nearly as strong as you would think. Some of that is due to poor technique. But a lot of it seems to be that he doesn't know how to use his body. A lot of people think that can be fixed. I tend to disagree.

He can be easily sealed off and turned away from a play. If you try to run right into his teeth he will kill you. I admit that. But who in their right mind is going to try to run right through a 350 pounder? Not may people. He has trouble (against C-USA linemen who will never sniff the pros) using his hands to break off of blocks and he doesn't create good leverage.

It's actually insane how good of an athlete he is. But despite his immense size and reputed strength, I think he looks more like a 3 tech than a nose. He might as well have his arms chopped off because he doesn't use them on the field. His conditioning is pretty bad (as you would expect, he weighs 350).

I think he can be coached to have better footwork. He moves sideways and backwards too much, almost like he is afraid to take on a blocker. He plays with high pads so hopefully you can teach him how to use better leverage. But you are going to be totally remaking him. I don't know how you fix his arms and hands. He flat out doesn't use them.

So in the end, we are talking about using a top 15 pick on a guy who:
- is strictly a two down player
- needs to have his footwork totally redone
- needs to be taught how to understand leverage and how to create it
- needs to be taught what his arms are and how they can be used to move off blocks

If we're talking second round? Sure, take a shot. He is an incredible athlete and I don't see any questions about work ethic. First round? I'll pass and let someone else take the risk.

 

[bah007]

Poe will be as big, as strong and as fast as almost anyone he faces in NFL. In Wade's defense he should excell especially with his strength and speed against NFL centers and OGs. All he has to do is clog middle and he can do that better than Cody.

He honestly did not show that at Memphis. His teammates were horrible so I understand he had no help. But I don't even like his film against one blocker, much less two. He plays with his hands close to his body and his shoulders are easily turned away from the play.

 

[badboy]

He honestly did not show that at Memphis. His teammates were horrible so I understand he had no help. But I don't even like his film against one blocker, much less two. He plays with his hands close to his body and his shoulders are easily turned away from the play.

thanks for info. If Wade can make our D #2 with Cody in middle, what could he do with Poe? Also, Watt and Antonio Smith should be helpful to the rookie.

 

[Rey]

I don't mean production in terms of stats. I mean production in terms of impact. How does he make an impact and produce for his team?

I admit I've seen about six games worth of footage on Poe. It's not easy to find. And I don't absolutely hate the guy. But I think he needs serious coaching at the next level. You aren't just gonna plug this guy in and have an All Pro, as many people seem to think because of his combine numbers.

I've got a mid-late 2nd round grade on him and I think he has serious bust potential. If he explodes and turns into Ngata then you guys can laugh in my face but this is my feeling on him. I obviously seem to be in the minority.

Despite his strength and size, Poe doesn't play nearly as strong as you would think. Some of that is due to poor technique. But a lot of it seems to be that he doesn't know how to use his body. A lot of people think that can be fixed. I tend to disagree.

He can be easily sealed off and turned away from a play. If you try to run right into his teeth he will kill you. I admit that. But who in their right mind is going to try to run right through a 350 pounder? Not may people. He has trouble (against C-USA linemen who will never sniff the pros) using his hands to break off of blocks and he doesn't create good leverage.

It's actually insane how good of an athlete he is. But despite his immense size and reputed strength, I think he looks more like a 3 tech than a nose. He might as well have his arms chopped off because he doesn't use them on the field. His conditioning is pretty bad (as you would expect, he weighs 350).

I think he can be coached to have better footwork. He moves sideways and backwards too much, almost like he is afraid to take on a blocker. He plays with high pads so hopefully you can teach him how to use better leverage. But you are going to be totally remaking him. I don't know how you fix his arms and hands. He flat out doesn't use them.

So in the end, we are talking about using a top 15 pick on a guy who:
- is strictly a two down player
- needs to have his footwork totally redone
- needs to be taught how to understand leverage and how to create it
- needs to be taught what his arms are and how they can be used to move off blocks

If we're talking second round? Sure, take a shot. He is an incredible athlete and I don't see any questions about work ethic. First round? I'll pass and let someone else take the risk.

I didn't see him having trouble with any of the linemen in the clips/games I've watched...

He pretty much did what he want, but I noted above that he lacked recognition at times and failed to re-direct when rushing the passer.

My thing is that he pretty much required a double team most of the time in pass protecion...If he can provide consistent push up the middle from the NT position this defense could be absolutely unstoppable...And you said yourself that he dominates runs towards him...

In college he played a lot of 5 technique...Put him in the middle in between Watt and Smith and give him less space to be responsible for and I think he can dominate the area in between the gaurds which would be a tremendous help to the defense...

But I think all of this is moot though, because I don't think he'll be on the board when we pick.

 

[steelbtexan]

Everything that's being said bad about Poe was said about Wilfork. Didn't dominate/took plays off/lazy. All of which was true.

However with BB coaching Wilfork up he ended up as one of the best DL in the game. It was never a question of ability with Wilfork. Nor is it with Poe.

This is the reason I believe BB and the Pats will trade up and draft their next Wilfork. (Poe) Scary thought isn't it?