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McNair and uncapped season
- Thread starter badboy
- Start date
badboy
Hall of Fame
The money I am referring to out of McNair's check book is for the salary of the extra first round that you get by trading daft picks for.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Based on your two posts, I can only assume that you do not realize that most of the posts on this MB are based on opinion and rumors and out right guesses. Seems like a fellow as smart as you would have stopped reading after my ignorant thread rather than reading each post as you say you did. Maybe the ignorant ain't the other posters?
buddyboy
Rookie
Is it really that "wildly optimistic" to think that the next 8 years will be different than the previous 8? I can almost guarantee SOMETHING will be different. Whether it's for the better or for the worst, blanket statements like "everything for the next 8 years will be the same for the Texans" are foolish.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
I don't see one of those examples as a good signing. You could try and argue Smith right now, but I think we over paid for Smith and it was a reach. He's not a difference maker at DE at all. We've had the same poor D line that we've always had this season. The Reeves contract was terrible and I couldn't believe we did that at the time, DD was already pretty banged up, Wade was not a good player at all, and Walker had one good season for us where he made the Pro Bowl so I won't call fault on that one. I wouldn't call any of those contracts examples of Bob spending money though. None of those guys were what were considered difference makers at their positions that were available in the free agent market. We have never been aggressive in making trades either to bring in a big time player. We've simply been a pretty conservative franchise in that regard every off season.
This is the same thing you've thrown out every time this subject comes up. No one said that we needed to spend 100 million on a guy like Haynesworth or any other overrated contract player. It's about being aggressive and filling the holes on your team with proven players though and not simply trying to build through the draft. I hate that philosophy. Great teams do both. The free agents that we've brought in from off season to off season historically have been some really bad signings for the most part and most of them had "buyer beware" written all over them like Green, Brown, Weaver, Reeves, Buchanon, and Bradford (Resigning), and etc.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I never said they were good signings but they are proof McNair will spend money.
They have tried. Generally they have failed but that is a different assertion. You just listed two more - Weaver got a big contract and they traded for Buchanon.
badboy
Hall of Fame
When you sign a free agent or select a draft pick, you have no idea how it will work out. The point we are discussing is not how effective were the players but rather did McNair pay the bucks to get them? I could counter the negative decisions you mention with players who were good pick ups. Has nothing to do with that.
Yeah, pretty people confuse not spending smartly with not spending. Two very different issues. I remember the Texans had one of top 5 paid OL in football one those years when Mittens was on his back more than standing up. What he has not done is either spend the highest contract nor attempted to sign guys with a higher previous profile. It almost seems as if he has an aversion to "name" brand players, although he will pay significant dollars to guys on speculation.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
I don't think he was attacking the title of the thread. I think it has more to do with the direction the thread went, which was obvious from the start.
I actually agree with his/hers overall point.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
They voted for an early termination of the collective bargaining agreement, and with that early termination came the possibility of an uncapped year (and while it's looking likely, the uncapped year is still not a certainty).
There might be an exception or two, but I believe the vast majority who voted for termination didn't do it so they could increase what is already far and away their largest expense. Contrary to the main idea behind this thread, it was done to increase their collective bottom line, not to decrease it.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
Kubiak is going into the last year of his contract so he is going to have to pay someone a big money contract next season.
After next season yeah.(If they do indeed bring Kubiak back for the final year). Kubiak will then be off the "books".
Vinny
shiny happy fan
who thinks Bob will let Kubiak coach without a contract? He didn't even want David Carr to go into his last year without extending him.
noxiousdog
Rookie
I would be shocked if he extended him. I don't think the no credibility with the players argument holds. Assuming he's back, if Kubiak doesn't make the playoffs next year, he's done and no extended contract is changing that. The players, especially ones on the radio as much as ours are, know that.
That's true. Owners usually extend coaches going into their last year. But as noxiousdog said, it would be a little surprising to see him extend him. I however, still think Kubiak will be back, though I myself would not like to see him return.
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CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I'm wondering if the Players' Union is considering decertifying to avoid a "lockout" (as was being considered back in 2007)?
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
The problem with the move up is the cost in players... look at last year!
Caldwell, Quin, B McCain in the 3rd, 4th, and 6th... all those guys are making a significant impact as rookies and have a pretty high ceiling moving forward.
by the way, our highest pick since Rick Smith got here was one of our worst: Amobi Okoye at 10.
I know its the hip thing to do...blaming the owner and claiming he is a miser... but lets try to keep it logical and realistic pretty please. The dude has spent more money than you will ever see on this team.. and has given no indication that he has an issue spending money if it seems like a good investment.
Goldensilence
hipster elite
I think a better point would yes, they have spent money in the off-season chasing FAs. Unfortunately, someone in personnel is doing a horrid job evaluating NFL FAs and how they fit with what the team wants to do (that is even if the team is sure anymore). They don't generally go after blue chip talent like Asante Samuel, Micheal Turner, Brian Dawkins, etc.
Instead we get J. Reeves, Chris Brown, and Gary Busing.
Many fans here saw a bunch of red flags with the signing of Ahman Green. If you want a reliable running game you don't make move on an older RB coming of a recent big injury.
Sure McNair has spent money but for the most part the big "splashes" have been belly flops. Sadly the team seems to hit better on the small to medium contracts where it is less risk adverse. It needs to be the opposite. We need to nail the higher priced FAs who make a big dent on the salary cap and then if we do hit or miss on the small contracts it's not as important. It just becomes icing on the cake if we do.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I'd have to say that McNair has already more than made his generous investment back. He can certainly find ways to reward fans for their painful loyalty.
Review this FORBES piece on McNair and the Texans financials.
Review this FORBES piece on McNair and the Texans financials.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
First, Reeves was a good signing and his was a medium contract. Second, Brown and Busing were insignificant signings... neither of whom were guaranteed to even make the roster.
Third, you left off Antonio Smith. Mike Briesel, Shaun Cody, Bernard Pollard, Eugene Wilson, Tim Bulman, Andre Davis, Vonte Leach, Kevin Bentley... just to name a few off the top of my head are some pretty darn good signings. Please try and forgive Rick Smith for not paying them more money. Maybe he'll do better next year.
badboy
Hall of Fame
True but if I can keep my own pick and get a top 10 pick for 3rd, 4th and 6th this year it is a done deal. That is not hapening. You have to compare the offer to the team we have now not last year. i wonder if we could get a 13-14 pick for our 2nd this year and a first and 3rd next?
They can??? hehe, somebody tell the Texans FO!
I agree with your overall post, btw. Should the NFL go the way of MLB (which I don't think it will), I would lose interest because of the disparities and unequal playing field between teams.
Really??!?! Selling Cogen Technologies for $1.5 billion dollars in cash and stocks to Enron, right before the industry bubble started to collapse wasn't a bold business move??? Please.
If only McNair was as insightful about the NFL as he appears to be about the energy industry. *sigh*
p.s. No complaints about McNair, just the people he's hired to run his franchise the past eight years.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
They can??? hehe, somebody tell the Texans FO!
I agree with your overall post, btw. Should the NFL go the way of MLB (which I don't think it will), I would lose interest because of the disparities and unequal playing field between teams.
Well I think that not having a salary cap can easily turn it into a Yankees/Red Sox type of situation where you've got the same teams in it every single season because of the players that they buy in every off season.
The thing that kills the sport even more though is guaranteed contracts which is the biggest thing that's keeping the NFL on top in my opinion. Guaranteed contracts take away all of the incentive to all of the players once they get paid enough. I think guaranteed contracts have killed the NBA with the addition to all of the dirty stuff that Stern has been involved in. Players simply don't care anymore after they're being paid enough money. Look at how many baseball players do the same thing as well and become terrible hitters after getting that huge deal or those guys that end up getting washed up that stay on a team's roster forever, simply because they can't cut them.
yep. The NFL has been a model league, and with the exception of the rookie contracts, I think they have done it the right way. But I sure hope that both the owners and players do not kill the golden goose. If they choose to strike/lockout or any of that nonsense, they might just kill my passion for the spectator sport. It's hard to relate to rich owners/entertainers who enjoy the benefit of taxpayer funded facilities when you're just a working man living hand to mouth.
Goldensilence
hipster elite
Dale are you just obtuse? I'm not talking about the salary cap. I'm talking about talent evaluation on the field.
Reeves has been an ok signing. He's been our best CB since being signed...but that isn't saying a whole lot if we're honest with ourselves.
Brown hasn't been a big cap hit, but he started off his contract injured...again. Who was surprised? Problem is Brown has cost us games this year.
You're right Busing wasn't a big cap hit either, but it's sad that he made the roster because what they brought in for safety was even worse. He's cost us games in his "coverage".
I have to say Antonio Smith so far has been a good singing for the most part. Unfortunately Williams has struggled this year across from him.
My problem with Brisiel is I'm not sure he'd be a starter anywhere else. I guess you could call him an UDFA gem from Smith if you really want to, but that doesn't mean a whole lot to me. He's weak at the LOS and should be a backup.
Yeah Shuan Cody's been a real game changer at DT this year. I would've preffered to go after Grady Jackson. Yeah older, but he's the space eating DT that this team could benefit from.
I don't know how much I can credit Smith with Pollard considering 1.) KC was dumb enough to cut their leading tackler from last year 2.) Kubiak figured he could squeak through the year with Barber and Busing. Sure Pollard has done great while he's been here and I'm glad we signed him. It's just pathetic that it seems EVERY YEAR we have to make a mid season piuckup because they didn't address it in the off-season.
I think Eugene Wilson has done good enough to being up competent safety play. Decent signing but, for the love of beer can we actaully adress this spot with a high draft pick?
I guess for What Tim Bulman does it's a good signing. If it makes you feel better I think we could've gotten the same production out of him or Jamison that we've gotten from 2nd round fan boy super star Conor Barwin.
Davis has given us one good season then when he hit a big contract he's disapeared.
I can't complain one bit about Leach, except it would be awesome if he could transfer some of that nastiness to the OL.
Bentley has done well. I can't really complain about him, he's done well as a starter when needed and provides good depth at LB.
Problem is Dale some of these signings have been to cover bad off-season talent evaluation or roster evaluation after preseason.
CB is way more pressing of a need, if you ask me. I would look Saftey in the 2-4 range of the draft, since the guy could learn from Wilson his rookie year.
badboy
Hall of Fame
I think if it is an uncapped year, the restrictions on who will be a FA and that teams can only sign one if they lose one (not too clear on this yet) will greatly shrink the pool. That is another reason I am asking if picking up a second first round pick would be successful. I have us ending up at #15. I would like another in that range. say 11-14.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
I weigh about 240 lbs.... so, I guess I'm morbidly obtuse.
Joking aside, my point with the list of FAs is that Rick Smith has been very skillful at finding affordable and young talent. That is a special skill, particularly in the salary cap era. My point about the Chris Brown signing as well as the Busing signing is that the nature of those contracts don't prevent another/better player from assuming the roster spot. In my opinion, the blame for Chris Brown and Busing lies on the shoulders of Gary Kubiak. That being said, I would love to get my hands on the transcript to the off-season meeting where our safety situation was discussed. Who in the h*ll determined that Ferguson, D.Barber, Busing, EWilson, BHarrison would be an adequate group of safeties to bring to camp? Because that person F'ed up big time and a lot of us knew it then!
HJam72
Hall of Fame
I weigh about 240 lbs.... so, I guess I'm morbidly obtuse.
Joking aside, my point with the list of FAs is that Rick Smith has been very skillful at finding affordable and young talent. That is a special skill, particularly in the salary cap era. My point about the Chris Brown signing as well as the Busing signing is that the nature of those contracts don't prevent another/better player from assuming the roster spot. In my opinion, the blame for Chris Brown and Busing lies on the shoulders of Gary Kubiak. That being said, I would love to get my hands on the transcript to the off-season meeting where our safety situation was discussed. Who in the h*ll determined that Ferguson, D.Barber, Busing, EWilson, BHarrison would be an adequate group of safeties to bring to camp? Because that person F'ed up big time and a lot of us knew it then!
I heard it was Peyton Manning.
Goldensilence
hipster elite
I weigh about 240 lbs.... so, I guess I'm morbidly obtuse.
Joking aside, my point with the list of FAs is that Rick Smith has been very skillful at finding affordable and young talent. That is a special skill, particularly in the salary cap era. My point about the Chris Brown signing as well as the Busing signing is that the nature of those contracts don't prevent another/better player from assuming the roster spot. In my opinion, the blame for Chris Brown and Busing lies on the shoulders of Gary Kubiak. That being said, I would love to get my hands on the transcript to the off-season meeting where our safety situation was discussed. Who in the h*ll determined that Ferguson, D.Barber, Busing, EWilson, BHarrison would be an adequate group of safeties to bring to camp? Because that person F'ed up big time and a lot of us knew it then!
I agree that Smit has a done a fair job with lesser FA and hit on bigger FA this year in Antonio Smith. I genuinely have a hard time evaluating how good of job Rick does because at the same time Gary Kubiak is very involved in how the roster gets composed.
I get the impression that the idea is a bit opposite from the Casserly approach to drafting and FAs. It's ok to take risks on high draft picks because we can make up for it in the backend of the draft and value priced free agents.
The slogan might read Houston Texans: Where UDFA and low roudn draft picks can shine!
You can compose a roster that way but it sure makes it difficult to compete for a championship, especially when you have sub par coaching.