HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
Maybe we should try drafting our Dlinemen in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Those rounds seem to be the most productive lately. That is, when we have the picks in those rounds.
Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍
McClain:How would you motivate Mario?
- Thread starter Wolf
- Start date
Maybe we should try drafting our Dlinemen in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Those rounds seem to be the most productive lately. That is, when we have the picks in those rounds.
The1ApplePie
Hall of Fame
Taking Mario was idiotic.
You are rebuilding a team, and you sign your QB to a new long term deal.
Shouldn't you either give that QB a new weapon (Bush) or a tackle to protect his blind side (D'Brick)?
I'm of the opinion, that unless they are a shutdown CB or a stud MLB, that no defensive player is worth the 1st overall pick. One stud on offense will have more impact than one on defense.
You are rebuilding a team, and you sign your QB to a new long term deal.
Shouldn't you either give that QB a new weapon (Bush) or a tackle to protect his blind side (D'Brick)?
I'm of the opinion, that unless they are a shutdown CB or a stud MLB, that no defensive player is worth the 1st overall pick. One stud on offense will have more impact than one on defense.
Leahmic223
Veteran
Man your still pissed we didn't take Bush?
The Running Back that's not actually a Running Back. I wonder what the guy will do when there isn't a actual Running Back there to help him out.
I mean when a a HOF RB is asked "What do you think of Bush? and the first thing he says is "He needs to prove he can be a more effective runner."
As for D'Brick...I went over to a Jets board awhile ago...and when Mario played him I remember one poster saying something like "Lets see if he improves this game." and it seems they have the same view on him...because I believe the Jets fans wanted a QB last year or a more sexy pick.
I don't see why you would say "He's a idiotic pick" in his 2nd year. Usually RBs don't take 3 years to develop, although Bush is the media darling, if he doesn't produce on the ground, he HAS NOT reached his potential.
My Point.
Bush still has a lot to prove and so does Mario, which means I don't know why you always cast these conclusions on Mario but not Bush. Every post about Mario you always have to mention Bush...nearly everytime.
R
real
Guest
Was with you up until this part...
RB has shown he can make spectacular game breaking plays on this level...
Mario hasn't even proven he's up to par with average DE's at his position...
Vinny
shiny happy fan
he probably said it because many fans never heard of Mario till the combine. He didn't dominate in his Sr year and he wasn't even a finalist for the Lombardy trophy as the top lineman in the Nation. He was a workout wonder who shot up the boards because of his workouts and his bodytype. He wasn't drafted because he had great football instincts. This franchise just has some kind of mental block when it comes to top 5 picks and they choose ideal body types who look good in shorts and have great measurables. Thankfully Andre Johnson worked out...but thankfully he wasn't the first overall pick. They probably would have taken Charles Rogers if the pick was moved up (the cynic in me).
Leahmic223
Veteran
And none of those plays were rushing plays.
Mario has made plays, Jets game, Giants game, Dolphins game, and caused the fumble that helped us win the Colts game.
I'm not. I'm not even pissed off that we didn't take VY. But I am real pissed off that we took Mario !
R
real
Guest
Leahmic223
Veteran
You still can't judge a draft pick in his 2nd year. Despite what you think of his college career. Saying it was a idiotic pick is basically saying that it is a fact that he is going to fail.
Leahmic223
Veteran
The guy has to prove that he can rush....period.
Otherwise he has not reached his potential.
Also what about the plays Mario has made last season? Are those just a illusion? Is that not the flash? Obviously he has the tools, he just has some growing to do.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
Even Jay Foreman and Matt Stevens made a few plays...Goodness.....how can you start all year and not make any plays? Frankly we expect more than a couple of plays like touching leftwich when he does the splits as a sack.
Leahmic223
Veteran
I am not talking about his sacks though. I am talking about the Giants game where before the half all he did was dominate their line. I am talking about a game saving tip from the dolphins game, I am talking about almost killing Chad Pennington, I am talking about causing the fumble that helped us win that Colts game.
at least two of those sacks, all he did was touch a guy. But I am talking about the impact plays he made last season.
R
real
Guest
1) Thats pretty narrow minded to have to say the guy needs to prove he can rush....If he is a great recieving threat that can also be ligned up in the backfield and get you yards on the ground IMO, that makes him a great asset....P.S. I think Reggie is going to change a lot of peoples perception of him as a runner this year...
2) don't get me confused with everyone else...go back and read my post history...I never said Mario was a bad football player...yes he looks horrilbe at times, but I've never called the guy a bust or said he down right sucks and has no furture....I've even posted videos of good plays he's made...
HuttoKarl
Veteran
Specnatz
Hall of Fame
Wow I did not know you were only looking for highlights. I always thought you wanted other things like showing improvements and heart and some pressure no matter if he gets the sack or someone else does because of him.
His other sack was against the giants.
The1ApplePie
Hall of Fame
Name one thing Mario did in the game against the Jets, beside "Almost killing Pennington" (after he got rid of the ball). Oh right, nothing because D'Brick dominated him all game.
The fumble against the Colts was done by Mario completely by accident. He totally wiffed on the RB in the backfield and his hand happened to hit the ball. Its was a Lucky not Good play.
For Bush vs Mario:
Bush's job is to make TDs, Mario's is to make sacks. Bush had twice the TDs that Mario had sacks last year.
Bush is running it up the middle just fine in the preseason, he has also scored. What has Mario done this preseason?
Vinny
shiny happy fan
oh yeah thanks....I remember now. Mario couldn't beat his block and got no penetration...VY was starting to scramble from the pressure from the other linemen...and he ran right towards Mario. Nice moment...I'll cherish it for a now.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
don't put words in my mouth...where did I type that I only wanted highlights from Mario? dude said that Mario had some highlights and I said it would be a short film...and it would be.
The1ApplePie
Hall of Fame
For a half yard loss.
VY got him back next game when he made Mario tackle himself in the open field.
Leahmic223
Veteran
He has to prove he can rush to me because he was drafted as a guy that can rush out of the backfield as well as return and receive. He wasn't drafted as just a returner or receiver (Maybe Payton did draft him for just those reasons) but had any other team drafted him...say us. He would have to be a 1,000 yd rusher at least, not those 500 or so yard he rushed last season. He won't be bust if all he can do is receive and return, but he wouldn't reach his full potential.
I am sorry then. I just think those that are labeling him as bust right now kinda want him to fail just so they can say "I told you so."
I am usually just patient, I am willing to wait and let these guys grow. None of us know the pressure of getting paid millions and basically having the whole franchise say "We need you to be the guy that makes us a winning football team." for the first few years...it is just too much pressure on those guys. HOPEFULLY (I say this because Apple thinks I blindly defend Mario) he can get past the pressure and just focus on dominating. I have never said
"Mario was GREAT last night man what a player!" or given him any major compliments. All I say is he had a pretty average year when it comes to rookie DEs (in general, don't bring up Freeney and Peppers Apple.) and hopefully he can improve upon that this year.
With that said, I don't see how he could move backwards from here on out. He can either stay the same or get better. I am just wishing for the latter and I tend to ignore preseason for many reasons. If he's doing what he does in preseason for full games come Sep-Jan then i'll be a bit more worried and just cross my fingers for his 3rd try to be a charm.
Leahmic223
Veteran
Wait...Mario's job is to get sacks...I thought it was to pressure the QB? You are obviously a stat nerd because that is all you've judged him by.
You always bring up his sack numbers...almost always bring them up.
Not only that, here you go with comparing a RB to a DE...congratulations on a RB having twice the TDs than Mario has sacks...
Also Stop saying it was a ACCIDENT...what the hell.... what is that. He caused the fumble case closed.
Usually getting the fumble is a case of 'right place right time' but the guy that gets it gets congratulations...
Errant Hothy
Hypermediocrity
I don't think he'll ever be able to move out from under that "black cloud". He could rack up 15-20 sacks a year for a decade and it still wouldn;t be enough for some memebers of the fan base.
The1ApplePie
Hall of Fame
You don't take a guy first overall to just get preasure. He's got to put up 10 sacks plus a year.
I can compare an RB to a DE. Bush is more important to his team, and is the better player, simple as that. Stat wise and intangibles, he is key. Even in leadership, he far exceeds Mario.
Giving Mario credit for that forced fumble is like giving a guy credit for an RBI by getting beaned by the pitcher.
Errant Hothy
Hypermediocrity
So do you think that if we were to cut him that nobody else would sign him?
Leahmic223
Veteran
Actually you do take a guy just to get pressure...If he gets a sack because of that pressure than thats a plus...but you can't get a sack without getting pressure first. A QB under pressure usually means bad things for the offense, INTs, fumbles, and if hit too many times...injuries.
You can't compare a RB to a DE, please stop trying to do this. When you want to compare Mario to other DEs in his class and maybe even DTs than come back. But I am not going to sit here and compare a RB to a DE. I'd rather debate whether Bush would be a better DE than Mario Williams...
We all know ho important YOU think a RB is. You've even said that a RB is far more important than a DE...which I disagree with but that is your opinion. Reggie White, game changer. Walter Payton Game Changer. But I am not going to sit here and Compare Reggie White to Payton.
We compare White and Strahan...but not White and Payton.
Mario got gredit for that fumble...get over it. Also, Jets fans would disagree that he handled Mario, as I remember from the forums they though Mario had the advantage...but since Bush is your son or something than of course your not going to see it that way.
You ignore Bush's negatives and praise his positives to no end. He still has a lot to improve on and a lot of people feel his hype was just hype. I think Bush is going to be a great RB, I really do. But I am not going to sit here and act like he's the second coming.
Exactly, one of the ESPN analyst (I think Jackson) couldn't have said it any better "No matter what he does, Bush and Young will always outshine him because of the position they play."
The players on the line aren't appreciated too much, but I think many of us know and feel that the battle is won and lost in the trenches.
R
real
Guest
Errant Hothy
Hypermediocrity
That's just dillusional, after teh draft one of the draft guru's ( sorryu can't for teh life of me remember which one) said as many as 6 teams had Mario at the top of their boards.
Factor that into what happened last year I'd be more likely to believe that there would be teams willing to sign him over that there are none willing to pass on him. Also his current contraact would have nothing to do with it if he were cut, and teh way some people are talking it makes it sound like that he wouldn't even get signed for a minimum offer.
Leahmic223
Veteran
Wait didn't you say in another thread "The stats don't even matter."
So now you are all about sack numbers now?
Leahmic223
Veteran
So now it is all about Sacks when in this thread it was about getting pressure?
R
real
Guest
The numbers themselves are useless when judging how good a player is compared to another player...
But you don't take a guy # 1 overall merely to "get pressure"...That's just silly....
Mario is not a good pass rusher...That's plain and painfully obvious to see...
He could get away with his style of play at the other DE position, but if they leave Mario at weakside DE it won't be too long before people really consider him a bust...
Leahmic223
Veteran
I see what your saying, but Pressure leads to sacks, and Mario was drafted as a pass rusher if I remember correctly. Elite pass rushers are very valuable.
If a guy can get pressure 2 out of 5 plays, then why not take him? That's two plays the offense has to execute extremely well. As for run stopping, I think we have a good enough LB core to stop the the run...
Man to tell you the truth I am getting sick of talking about Mario. It seems like our other first round pick has been just ignored the last two weeks, I can't wait to see how he does his first game.
threetoedpete
Hall of Fame
I don't think it has anything to do with motivation or heart. He is a great big 'ol kid, with a freaky athletic body, who's crushed everyone befor just with shear overwhelming raw power. Well now, that's no longer good enough. All you have to do is watch his third step on the passing plays and see that he is still lost. I gotta believe that Franklin is telling him what to do. I gotta believe that he knows what he should do on the third step after a season. But what ever the switch is inside his brain, it isn't being flipping "on" yet. Dip your shoulders, butt and hips get under the shoulder pads, make a swim or rip move on the third step, show the fans what the innards of the quarterback look like. That's it. It's psychological though not physical. Whole lotta people are going to have eggs on their faces when the monster becomes self aware. This monster is taking a little longer than some is all. I wish he'd hurry up and flip the switch on also. But it is what it is. They ain't going to cut him. Can't kill him. Just gotta let it play out. May be the best motivation would be give him a book to read. If the numbers say he's big enough, strong enough, fast enough, the only thing left is: is he smart enough ? They don't make a pill for that. If he's that stupid, beating him over the head isn't going to solve or help anything.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
he was benched in College due to his lackluster attitude at one time...I wonder if the Texans were ever worried about this?
threetoedpete
Hall of Fame
Yeah well Vinny if the scouts fell in love with the numbers I did too. Soon as I saw the guy last summer I swallowed the bait hook line and sinker. But one thing I believe is they were never ever , going to take Vincent or RB. I gotta believe a lot of this is residule sour grapes from the '06 draft. Everyone wants to stand up now and say see ITYS...that's fine but it doesn't help anything. They couldn't get a move down and they did the best that they could under the circumstances. They picked the best defensive player on the board. Now if he's Leo lionni's Ferdinand, the bull, the bull smelling the flowers or Danile Keys' Flowers for Algernon , I don't know. But the only option they have at this point is to work with the guy to turn the potential into sacks and destruction. I think it's still to early to throw the guy under the buss. He's still a better option at this point than David Pollack wouldn't you agree ? He ain't dead yet.
"Motivation" is all mental, too.
So we are in basic agreement that he's go the physical skills, and it's all in his head.
Then it's knowledge he requires. So he needs incentive to learn the position, to learn how to counter offensive linemen's techniques, to learn how to be mean about refusing to be manhandled. This is where 'motivation' comes in, because to be the best, he has to think like the best.
Am I questioning Mario's "heart"? Not at this point. I'll give him another full season, but there had better be some fire in his play, and you and I both know what this is about. Beyond stats, he has to be an impact on the field. That's what I'm talking about at the end of the day.
For the record, I was a D'brick or AJ Hawk guy. No sour grapes on my part, either. Mario is our boy, but that does not put him above our concerns.
R
real
Guest
I don't think Mario has ''all' the physical skills...
He's not quick nor explosive off the ball and that is another factor in his non-effectiveness
He's not quick nor explosive off the ball and that is another factor in his non-effectiveness
JohnsonFan
Rookie
he so big
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
threetoedpete
Hall of Fame
Well as I posted befor, if he's being shown what to do...and knows what to do and he still can't make his feet do it on the third step....I dunno what to tell you. If his pads are too high and he doesn't have the position...I don't care if you're godzilla, or what kinda fire he has, you're not going to get around most NLF OLTs. If they got the angle on you. They'll chicken fight with you all day. Now I understand the frustration. Beers at the staduim going up another quarter just on the weight of the 54 million. The guy should be working on his thrid and forth moves by now and we're still stuck on dipping the hips and making a move on the third step. If he's doggin it like Vinny is sayin' , he's got me fooled. He's hustling every play from what I see. He just isn't getting there. I just think he's a Dexter Mannly looking for a little direction. What the coaches have to do to get that passion out of him I dunno. Can't force him into the film room. Can't make him ask for extra reps befor and after practice. I'm gonna look at this as a glass half full waiting for some coach to fill it. If he is DC II, God help us. The numbers say it's in there.
R
real
Guest
The moon must have aligned with the stars and planets again, because I agree 100%.
TK_Gamer
Veteran
I tend to think "explosive off the ball" is a mental thing too. It's part of confidence and attitude. but we could go on and on with this argument and like others have already noted, some people will never be happy with Mario. I'm happy with him though. I know he will get there. If anyone was paying attention in camp, he has learned 2 or 3 pass rush moves already. But he never needed them before so now he will work on implementing them until he does it reflexively, then he will gain confidence , and finally you will have your "explosiveness" Maybe there is a reason we havent seen any of these moves in preseason.
R
real
Guest
I agree with you that explosiveness is part Mental in regards to how bad you want to put the QB on his arse and how much energy you are expending trying to get there...
But Mario isn't a high energy player...that's something that's not hard to see...
I don't think he will ever be quicker off the ball though, unless that's something he specifically works on in the off-season...I don't think tenacity has anything to do with his quickness in this regard...He's just not that kind of DE....
But I understand fans wanting to rationalize it by saying it's 'all' or 'mostly' mental...It kinda gives you hope that one day he will 'get it'....
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
I wonder how many times a year do great pass rushers get called for off sides ? I think Mario is a count slow on every snap and would like to see him trying to anticipate the snap count in preseason . If he gets called for offsides ... oh well .
2BCF
All Pro
Ouch. That's not good news.