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Mario Williams, the right choice after all !!!!!
- Thread starter Divebomb
- Start date
BigDTexansFan
Rookie
WHAT A "D", boy did they look good, without officiating blown call we hold them to 6 points on 2 short fields. That wasn't 2nd string, that was starter to starter..WOOHOOO c'mon September 10th 
I think we have a defense that despite slow pace offense improving at, we will be in every game for most of season
I think we have a defense that despite slow pace offense improving at, we will be in every game for most of season
bigtex77
Waterboy
BigDTexansFan said:WHAT A "D", boy did they look good, without officiating blown call we hold them to 6 points on 2 short fields. That wasn't 2nd string, that was starter to starter..WOOHOOO c'mon September 10th
I think we have a defense that despite slow pace offense improving at, we will be in every game for most of season
Not with Mario Williams on it, three games without a sack? God he sucks. (Never mind the other things he does)
Smash_Mouth_Mario
Waterboy
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
Mario's technique is his only obstacle left . He is strong and quick .Vinny said:
I remain unconvinced about the #1 overall pick being worthy of that decision
by the Texans.
True, he's playing basically weakside when he was a strong side DE in college, but DeMeco was primarily an OLB in college (I believe ?) but is
already starring at a new position as a rookie MLB in the NFL.
Mario does get double teamed, but I believe other Texan downlinmen
are also getting double teams ? To me the most troubling indicator is that
Mario does not appear to be the edge rusher that Peek is, or even Babin.
And they continue to put him on the inside in passing situations.
I don't think for a moment that he'll be some kind of bust, but I fail to see
any evidence of a latent pro bowl type talent here, let alone another Reggie White.
The argument advanced by the Texans for the Mario pick was that a steller pass rushing DE is a very valuable player to build your defense around. What I'm seeing so far instead is a competant but not outstanding pro prospect who might be best suited as 4-3 DT, or maybe 3-4 DE.
by the Texans.
True, he's playing basically weakside when he was a strong side DE in college, but DeMeco was primarily an OLB in college (I believe ?) but is
already starring at a new position as a rookie MLB in the NFL.
Mario does get double teamed, but I believe other Texan downlinmen
are also getting double teams ? To me the most troubling indicator is that
Mario does not appear to be the edge rusher that Peek is, or even Babin.
And they continue to put him on the inside in passing situations.
I don't think for a moment that he'll be some kind of bust, but I fail to see
any evidence of a latent pro bowl type talent here, let alone another Reggie White.
The argument advanced by the Texans for the Mario pick was that a steller pass rushing DE is a very valuable player to build your defense around. What I'm seeing so far instead is a competant but not outstanding pro prospect who might be best suited as 4-3 DT, or maybe 3-4 DE.
nunusguy said:
While I do agree he is a better tackle than most of our DTs, it's because of what he is doing on 1st & 2nd down that gives us the opportunity to put him inside on the 3rd downs, and add two more excellent pass rushers to the ends.
I also beieve you are right, he makes a perfect 3-4 defensive end. But he's also going to be a great 4-3 defensive end.
aside from that, this preseason...... the only none of the top 10 draft picks have shown they were worth the pick. Maybe Lienart..... maybe.
powerfuldragon
Enchilada Aficionado.
top ten rushing leaders as of today:
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CloakNNNdagger said:
What is your purpose for posting these stats...Are you trying to say that Lundy or any of these other backs are better than reggie? 1) In all except the 1st game the Saints have played Reggie has split time with duece going with the first team...Reggie doesn't go against second teamers...2) Reggie has looked much better than any of our running backs from a pure talent standpoint...
Im not sure why people are trying to prove that reggie sucks...He has made his fair share of rookie mistakes, but I just think that we have passed ridiculous and are dead set for insane when we try to make it appear that any running back we have on our team brings more to the table than Bush...
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
I enjoy watching Mario survive on his physical ability ( driving two OL to the QB , ask Carr about no pocket to step up in to ) . I can't wait until he learns how to play the pro game .thunderkyss said:
Ryans plays well but theres a reason the Denver RBs are funneled back to the middle .
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thunderkyss said:
I agree with you on Leinart....He looks really good, and if Kurt goes down don't look for leinart to relinquish the starting spot any time soon...and If Kurt does magically make it through the season, Lienart will definitely be the starter opening day 2007...
PowerfulDragon said:
Imagine that.... Houston on the list twice.
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PowerfulDragon said:
Reggie Bush averages 5 carries a game...Lundy averages over 8...When the season starts and reggie plays more than a quater and a half at best, lets see if Lundy or any of those other backs can keep up with Reggie in the all purpose category...His ypc is better than Lundy's BTW...
xtruroyaltyx said:
LAMO, look at the game, Bush played throught the 3rd. sorry dude Buah is all hype. Ran great against the Titans but then again everyone is breaking off big plays against the titans. Dallas shut him down inside and out, and Indy made him look like a joke. The guy is way overrated. If NO was smart they would move him to WR PR/KR and leave him because as a RB the guy sucks.
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Divebomb said:
No he didn't...in fact he was taken out of the game before Duece was....And if you call running up the middle and breaking away from two tacklers and then taking it to a db making him look like a joke you must have laughed all day...like I said bush averages more ypc than any back on our team and only averages 5 rushes per game because he and duece both split time with the first team...
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His last play was with 9:21 left in the third...hardly throughout, but that is besides my point...he could play all game long for all I care...he only averages 5 touches a game...the end...
Divebomb said:
Man I think overall, you are going to come out on the wrong end of this argument. The Titans weren't the worse team they'll see. & I don't know if the Cowboys could've contained him much longer......
Sean Payton is a crafty lil 'cuss......... and he'll get Reggie behind the defense.. you can bank on it.
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thunderkyss said:
exaclty...I don't know how anyone could have watched Reggie play and still call him a "joke"...
Lets see bush had 5 carries for 22 yards with a long of 14 and a fumble. so one carry for 14 that means the other four carries average out to 2 ypc! Oh and I guess that fumble he had, LOL, was a fluke! He was barely even touched and he fumbled. Against Dallas he had 4 carries for 7 yards LOL. Titans are probably the worse team in the NFl, so I don't even count that game. Everyone who plays those guys has a 40+ break away run. So against real teams, Dal/Indy he has 9 carries for 29 yards. thats what 3.02 ypc. The guy is a hoss, ROY shoe in! LOL. What a joke, and you said he has only played a quarter and a half. Buddy Bush has played over 6 quarters of football so far and has yet to score a TD. The guy does not even contribute, he fumbles the ball away.
I think you kind of have to cut Bush some slack.
As I have mentioned here before, he is running behind one of the worst offensive lines in football.
I cant believe they let Bentley go...he instantly doubles the talent there.
Give Bush 3 or 4 years. He will be an excellent player...he just needs some help up front. Kind of like Emmitt Smith. He wouldnt have been half the player he was without that monster line in front of him.
I never thought he was a particularly great player myself...more of a product of a good team.
Look at his numbers compared to Sanders. Look at the number of carries, the yards per carry, and the years that it took him to break the record.
Sanders was a far greater back, and ran behind a far worse line.
As I have mentioned here before, he is running behind one of the worst offensive lines in football.
I cant believe they let Bentley go...he instantly doubles the talent there.
Give Bush 3 or 4 years. He will be an excellent player...he just needs some help up front. Kind of like Emmitt Smith. He wouldnt have been half the player he was without that monster line in front of him.
I never thought he was a particularly great player myself...more of a product of a good team.
Look at his numbers compared to Sanders. Look at the number of carries, the yards per carry, and the years that it took him to break the record.
Sanders was a far greater back, and ran behind a far worse line.
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Divebomb said:
Like I said...he made some rookie mistakes...Why are you expecting him to come out and play like a Vet ? ESPN hype get into your psyche ? Despite what you are saying he still averages more ypc than any back on our team...and like I said he splits time with duece going with the first team...and IMO, he has shown some pretty impressive flashes...you can keep ranting, your bush sucks chants if you want...thats your choice....but overall Bush has looked more impressive than any running back on our squad...take it FWIW....
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PhillyFan said:
Thats fair...and Honestly Reggie isn't an all world running back...but as an offensive weapon...IMO, in two years he will be the best in the leauge....
PhillyFan said:
In follow up, here are some basic stats on the 2
Emmitt Smith had 15 years in the NFL. He played 226 games, had 4409 carries and 18,355 yards, for an average of 4.2 yards per carry over his career.
Barry Sanders played 10 seasons, with 153 games. He had 3062 carries for 15,269 yards, with a lifetime average of 5.0 yards per carry.
Only once in his career did Emmitt sniff 5 yards per carry, and that was in 1993, behind arguably one of the best offensive lines in the history of the game. Barry did it over the length of his entire career.
With Kubiaks system, Reggie really could have flourished in Texas, Im sure of it. Instead, he will rot for 3 or 4 year with the Saints, who will continue to be a slightly less than average team.
The Texans on the other hand, are definitely on an upward swing.
Roughnecks
Waterboy
PhillyFan said:
Thats funny from what I have heard from Eagles fans on this MB we had the worst offensive line. As far as Bush goes I don't think they are using him the way he can show his talent at least not intill the reagular season and then we can see what he brings. When it comes to Super Mario I like what I have seen so far and the upside for him is endless. We made the right choice for our football team with Mario and Ryans running our D for years we are headed in the right direction.
bayshorebevo
Waterboy
If we had known DD's injury status, we might have picked Bush.
xtruroyaltyx said:
He should be playing like a Vet, he should average 6 yards per carry and have 5 touchdowns by now. ESPN said he could step in to any team and make an imediate impact! He has been touted has the greatest thing since sliced bread. So far our backs, Lundy and Morency have both scored TD's where is Reggie. How has he out performed our guys. Lets look at big play numbers. Morency game one did not play, game 2 43 yard TD run, game 3 long of 5 playing behind our second team OL that is reeally bad. Lundy has long runs of 25 game 1, 21 game 2, 10 game 3. Bush long of 44 game 1, long of 9 game 2, long of 14 game 3. Yea Bush stands leaps and bounds above our guys. Dude In Reggies best game against the Titans Bush had 6 carries for 59 yards with a long of 44. Take the 44 away hand he averaged 3 ypc. people focused on cutting off the edge and sure enough it is just like everyone expected, he cant play inside the middle. He is a reciever, he will never cut it at RB.
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Divebomb said:
Texans>Colts
Waterboy
I've been saying this for a while
michaelm
vox nihili
xtruroyaltyx said:
Maybe the point is that we can be successful with the backs we have... and our backs have split time just a much as Reggie and Duece.
I agree that Reggie looked better than our backs from a pure talent standpoint... he sure looked pretty dancing around for those meager yards... who cares if he looked better from a talent standpoint? Who moves the chains? that's what i care about.
BTW, the Titans are all second teamers... lol
PhillyFan said:
Not only that, but this is preseason..... you've got workout warriors busting their butts to make the team..... once the season starts, they all but disappear.....
then you have starters wondering why they are even on the field. Come regular season, they light it up...... again and again, and again......... then you wonder......."what were they even doing on the field in the preseason..... dudes a baller."
thunderkyss said:
Yep...preseason really is garbage. I think most teams know who at least 90% of their starters are going into the season. Which to me, is reason enough to cut it down to 2 preseason games, as opposed to 4...or in the Eagles case this year, 5.
I cant wait for week 1 to get here already.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
PhillyFan said:
I have not heard the players complain to much this year. I am sure that this last round of the CBA, the owners or the NFLPA actually educated the players on the need for four games and the loss of revenue that would incur at the expense of all parties if they cut back.
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michaelm said:
I've never once argued that point, and Im happy about getting Mario...That was the right choice for us...But to try and make people think that Our running backs are somehow better than him is borderline lunacy...And I'm not going to argue with any reggie bashers anymore because if you think lundy or Mornecy are better backs obviously you just don't like Bush...
Smash_Mouth_Mario
Waterboy
PhillyFan said:
I can't stand this argument. Why can't people understand that the nature of particular running back is what they know how to do based on their natural ability. It's very hard for a back to change their style later on. The greater the particular skill, whether power or speed, actually lessens the chance that they will be able to change later on. And this affects the ability of that back to adapt to the people around them. The reason that backs don't change their style is because they have learned to use the gifts that they were born with but ended up depending (too much) on them at the expense of other factors of the game; things like patients, reading defenses, know how to use your linemen, hitting the gap instead of the juking, making a simple short run instead of going for the "home run," etc...
IMO, Sanders was NOT the greater back because of this facts. While it's true he had a set of skills that Emmitt did not have. But he also lacked other skills that Emmitt DID have; vision and patients to hit the gap for extra yards and stronger in that he could carry defenders or breakaway from them outright. Sanders was a great a great back too, but treated the scrimmage line differently than Emmitt. If he was lucky, he could shoot out for a TD run. But if he ever got any type of traffic, he prefer to juke his way out of it. If two guys wrapped him up he pretty much would go down. Emmitt on the other hand would hit the gap, but rather than juke, would hammer the defenders and go an extra 4-5 yards and sometimes breakout of that and go for the TD. Barry, while he had strong/quick legs did not have the the same type of grind it out power nor the upper body strength that Emmitt had. Just take a look at Barry...he was all legs (looked like a baby kangaroo). But lacked in the upper body mass. Then, look at Emmitt. He was balanced, thus more versatile, IMO.
Reggie Bush has similar juke skill to Barry. But doesn't have the low center of gravity that Sanders had (6ft 200 vs 5'8" 203) and to some extent the leg power. So, he can only share some characteristics from Sanders. Marcus Allen is another RB that I compare Reggie to. But that's only regarding his open field speed and receiving ability. Although, I'm not sure that Reggie has the power for 1st and goal TD runs; at least not like Allen.
Reggie does not "suck." He going to be a very versatile back. And they will give the ball to him more as the season goes on (12-14 times) as well as using him for returns. But this doesn't make him the end-all-be-all of running back. He is still limited into what he's good at (speed and evasion) and what he's not good at (power back, up the middle, grinder). And because of this he will NOT get the ball as much as you think. And it would be a bad idea if you did give him the ball just to inflate his stats. He'll either get hurt or cause the team to loose yardage.
O-line is not just the only factor. Another is the speed and power of the OTHER TEAM. Reggie has stated himself on the NFL Network that the the thing that differentiates the NFL from the NCAA is the speed of the opposing defensive linemen. Well, I'll add the speed of the MLB, safeties and CBs too.
Before the draft, I read lots of article and watch as much film as I could on Reggie as I could. And while looking at the good things he could bring to our team, I also wanted to look at the limitations we would experience. And the thing that I found out about Reggie are things that N.O. will find out later in the season.
Giving the the ball to Reggie too much will do as much bad as it does good. Don't belive me? Ok, fine. Give him the ball 20-25 times and see what happens.
Note: A good stat to keep an eye on his Reggie's receiving yards.
Smash_Mouth_Mario
Waterboy
eric138 said:
I think it's just him having a little fun. He still has the great work ethic and character.
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Smash_Mouth_Mario said:
I'm not understanding your point...I think everyone knows that there is no such thing as a perfect back or perfect anything for that matter...Reggie has limitations just like every other RB's...But as far as what he brings to the table...It's double that of your run-of-the mill back...And Barry was the more talented back of him and Emmit...Emmit had the better career IMO, strictly due to the situation he was put in and Barry's early retirement...But as far as man vs. man..Barry was better hands down....and are you saying that RB's can't learn and get better ? Im not following you there...because it sounded like you were saying that RB's can't change their style to fit a system...and that IMO, is lunacy...
Smash_Mouth_Mario said:
You can come up with as many arguments as you like. The numbers dont lie.
Emmitt had a superior offensive line. And for all of his ability to "hammer the defenders and go an extra 4-5 yards and sometimes breakout of that and go for the TD" he averaged 5 yards per carry one season in his entire career.
Barry had a 5.0 ypc average over the entire length of his career. Those averages dont lie.
And how you can argue that Barry was not the greater back, when he was running behind a second tier line, yet performed much more spectacularly, is beyond me.
Barry did much more with much less. If you cant give him his props for that, thats too bad. He definitely deserved it. And I am not a Detroit fan by any stretch of the imagination...
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PhillyFan said:
Dito.
Smash_Mouth_Mario
Waterboy
xtruroyaltyx said:
Yeah, one of the great predictions is that Reggie will be better than Barry. Well, the more I watch of Reggie the the less I believe that will happen. And it has to do with Reggie's height; he doesn't have the same low center of gravity. So, he's not going to do the same things that Barry did down the middle.
Either Reggie has to get shorter. Or, he'll have to grow legs with the power of Bo Jackson. It's not going to happen.
I never said that all RB's can't learn and get better. Some aspects can be learned, no doubt. But whether an RB (or any player) can restrain his temptation to use his natural gifts is the question. For example, Mario is powerful and quick DE. At this point he knows that he can overpower some of the OL. Or, he can out quick them. This is a pure reaction to his physical skill.
Now, we know that Mario is working on his technique. Why? Because slower OL don't have to exert a lot of movement to stop Mario. They use leverage and technique to efficiently stop Mario who IS quicker and stronger. If Mario did not learn HOW to counter these techniques then he'd be limiting his growth as balanced and versatile DE. It's up the person on whether they can or are willing to learn. Not everyone can.
Now on the physical balance. The good news is that Mario has the tools for power, speed and quickness. Reggie has the speed and quickness. But not the power or low center of gravity necessary for power RB. So, he'll be battling not only his own tendency to juke (when he shouldn't) he'll be limited to his body type. This was one of the criticism I had with Eddie George. Although, very strong (at 6'3" 235), he had a up-right running style. So, any benefit that his power gave him was lessened by his high-center of gravity running style. He couldn't help it. That's just the way he was. This is why he was never a efficient RB and/or got the ball stripped. IMO, watching him run w/the ball was like watching a train wreck about to happen.
Smash_Mouth_Mario
Waterboy
PhillyFan said:
And the stats don't tell the whole truth. That's all you are doing. You just take the average and say, "See!"
That's just as bad as the Cowboy fan saying, "See, 18,000 yards for Emmitt." You are doing the same thing. What you should do is look at what limitations a RB is used within the team concept to achieve the ultimate goal. And that's a title. You are just looking at stats and then claiming the average is the ultimate number. To make it worse you say, "He did it more spectacularly." Well, then we know where you eyes are. Just the stat and the spectacular play. Not the more efficient player within the team. By the way, Emmitt has his share of "spectacluar plays." So, it's not like he's completely void of that.
Here is a twist for you. You say Barry Sanders is a better running back then Emmit Smith. Lets put this into perspective, Jerry Rice, hands down the best reciever of all time. Chris Carter, Tim Brown, both much faster than Jerry Rice and over all talently speaking they were more gifted. No one says that they were better than Rice, people don't cry that Rice had better QB's throwing him the ball. He had Joe Montana and Steve Young throwing him the ball. The 49'rs oline was one of the best in the league for years, plus he had so much talent around him it was not even funny. Does that make him any less of a reciever. Can you argue that Carter or Brown are better recievers????? E. Smith is hands down the best running back to ever play the game. Stats say he is the best ever.
goodnews boy
Practice Squad
[QUOTE reggie doesnt work in the confines of kubiak's system, he's a dancer and needs to be in space (although i think he'd enjoy all of mike sherman's screens). he's not the one-cut downhill runner that DD is, or morency's being taught to be. besides, when the system can CREATE reggie bush out of a 6th rounder, QUOTE]
I disagree. Reggie is a one cut back. That is why he is so effective. He has that bust to separate from the defender. IMO he is like a pound cake with glaze on top. The cake is good but the topping makes it that much better. He seams to be teachable. He could have work in the system but we needed the stop teams more then score more points. I agree with having Super Mario
but to say Reggie would work is crazy
I disagree. Reggie is a one cut back. That is why he is so effective. He has that bust to separate from the defender. IMO he is like a pound cake with glaze on top. The cake is good but the topping makes it that much better. He seams to be teachable. He could have work in the system but we needed the stop teams more then score more points. I agree with having Super Mario
but to say Reggie would work is crazy
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
We have a football forum to speak about Reggie Bush and if that is not enough just go to all things ESPN and you should get your fill over there.
This forum is for all things Texans.
This forum is for all things Texans.