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Mario Williams # 1 ?

Frak The Jags said:
2 Championships vs. 6 Championships. Which would you choose?


would you argue that Olajuwon was a bad pick? I believe that's the point. If we draft Mario Williams and Bush ends up being the best player in the history of the NFL and Mario Williams only ends up being in the class of Bruce Smith and Reggie White- many of us could still live with that.
 
dalemurphy said:
would you argue that Olajuwon was a bad pick? I believe that's the point. If we draft Mario Williams and Bush ends up being the best player in the history of the NFL and Mario Williams only ends up being in the class of Bruce Smith and Reggie White- many of us could still live with that.

I think if Mario Williams led us to win some Super Bowl's most fans would turn their back on Reggie Bush. Same thing with Vince Young. Winning cures most people's problems.

The reason didn't take MJ was because they had a guy who played the same position in Clyde Drexler. They chose to not take the BPA because of a positional need. Same thing happened in this past NBA draft in the opposite way. The Hawks took the BPA(Marvin Williams) over a need (Paul). Right now with Paul winning the ROY award and Harrison slowly coming on, Paul looks like the better pick. 5 years from now might be a different story if the Hawks can get a PG to play along side Harrington(if re-signed), Williams, and Joe Johnson.

I'm one of the guys who is for the BPA available. However, with the fact that the Texans have an adequate RB, I've been leaning towards trading down a few spots and getting Williams. I will stick with the thought that we need more help on Defense than on offense but a talent like Bush will be to much for me to pass on in the end. :twocents:
 
Mario is the top rated player in this draft. That is according to a good many NFL scouts and personel people, but will the Texans or other top 3 teams take him. Saints general manager said they will be looking at him very heavily if they cannot move and Jamaal Brown will be making the transition to LT, this was said on NFL Network. If we took Mario we have one of those scary defenses that offenses will fear. If we take Bush the same can be said about the offense. Bottomline both are great players and we cant go wrong with either.
 
Porky said:
Yawn. Other than making KT wet his pants, this is about as meaningful as teats on a boar. Bush was, is, and will be the pick at #1.

Teats on a boar ... hahahahaha.

Still, don't be so easily convinced buddy. Realistically I don't see us not taking Bush, but don't forget, this is still one half of the administration that brought you Travis Johnson and Jason Babin. I know that the #1 is inherently less suspenseful and easier to predict at because we have literally whoever we want ... but it's getting a bit presumptious on here with a lot of time to go.

Ain't over until it's over.
 
infantrycak said:
I agree with your by draft order statement. In the NFL, DE's are actually considerably more highly paid than RB's as demonstrated by the franchise tag numbers--$8.3 mil for DE's and $6 mil for RB's. Of all the positions under consideration, RB, DE and QB--if one were to get a discount vs. the draft position (which IMO will not happen) it would be RB.

Thanks for putting some teeth in it. I was trying to think of some numbers to prove it, but you saved me the effort.
 
PokerStar said:
Mario is the top rated player in this draft.
You must be looking at a different Internet than the one I'm looking at.
bfelix.gif
 
bad said:
You must be looking at a different Internet than the one I'm looking at.
bfelix.gif

Really. If you go to HailRedskins webpage ( http://www.hailredskins.com/MockDraft.htm ) They have links to almost every single Mock Draft on the net & only ONE has Reggie NOT going number one. Mario Williams, right? Nope. Ferguson. Mario is the highest rated DEFENSIVE player in the draft. Reggie is the highest rated OVERALL player in the draft:twocents:

Even if you disagree, you should check out some of those Mock Drafts. Pretty interesting what some of them say about us.
 
Emailed Charlie Palillo about this.

How certain are you that we are taking Reggie? Won't lie to you, the Mario Williams article in the chronicle made me think a little. Even though Mario would be great, he is no Reggie. In talent, or marketability (In my opinion). Thanks.

His reply:

Just for show with Williams.

CP
Take it for what you will...:ok:
 
Frak The Jags said:
2 Championships vs. 6 Championships. Which would you choose?

I choose one championship. Thats all I need at this point.

Besides, its a pointless debate. For all we know, Williams is the Michael Jordan in this draft.
 
Frak The Jags said:
Really. If you go to HailRedskins webpage ( http://www.hailredskins.com/MockDraft.htm ) They have links to almost every single Mock Draft on the net & only ONE has Reggie NOT going number one. Mario Williams, right? Nope. Ferguson. Mario is the highest rated DEFENSIVE player in the draft. Reggie is the highest rated OVERALL player in the draft:twocents:

Even if you disagree, you should check out some of those Mock Drafts. Pretty interesting what some of them say about us.

Mock Drafts aren't assessments of who is the best player it is who John Doe thinks is going to be taken by what team. It is something quite different to a pure ranking of who is the best player out there. Given that you can't say Reggie Bush is the best player because everyone is convinced the Texans will take him.
 
I for one am glad they are looking at Super Mario. Bush and Williams are the 2 top talents in this yrs. draft I don't know why everybody has Young in the same category as these 2 freaks. Both of them have to be respected and gameplaned for. Both of these guys will have an immediate impact. Both of these guys command less than QB's as far as positions go anyways. It's like this draft is just putting out the option for us. Excel in defense or offense? You can't go wrong with either of these 2 guys.

Ok, now that my spiel is over I thought I would comment on their rarity. The once in a lifetime factor. Williams is in the same category as Julius Peppers don't get it confused. Williams may have a slight edge over Peppers, but it's not enough to consider him more elite. So that would lead me to believe Williams is a once in every five years player. I'll go a step further though there is another freak of nature at the DE position coming out in next yrs. draft. Carriker, I think his first name is Adam, but it escapes my memory at the moment. Anyways this guy is 6'6'' and weighs 295 lbs. he's been clocked at 4.68 in the forty. The knock on him is injuries, but if he's healthy all next yr. he could probably put up quite a yr. and be the next Williams. I guess the point I want to make is Williams is not as once in a lifetime as you would be led to believe. In the span of 5 yrs. there have been 2 other guys that are comparable to Williams.

With Bush you really don't have that. Well, this ones been argued enough so I guess I'll leave this alone for now.
 
Porky said:
Yawn. Other than making KT wet his pants, this is about as meaningful as teats on a boar. Bush was, is, and will be the pick at #1.

There was a snarf involved with a grande caramel macchiato when I read that story this morning.
 
TexansFanatic said:
The Chron indicates the Texans are not only working out Mario Williams but are talking contract with his agent....

Will anyone be happy if this guy really becomes the # 1 pick?

Absolutely, he is easily the best defensive player in this draft, he's rated higher than Julius Peppers was (who was arguably deserving of the #1 pick in 2002), and I think he is definitely the rookie that will have the biggest immediate impact next season and has just as much if not more upside potential as anyone else in this draft.

nunusguy said:
Bush is clearly the BPA in this Draft, or last years Draft, or probably the 2004
Draft also, etc. But there is still a possibility for a godfather offer, therefor
we need a back-up plan for the BPA on the Board if picking at 4 or 5 or whatever. Therefor good idea to look at other top picks just in case.

There are some scouts around the league that have Mario rated higher than Bush, and I was told by a knowledgeable and reliable source that one team in the league actually has Mario rated higher than Bush. Bush is clearly the best offensive player in this draft, and Mario is clearly the best defensive player. I honestly think Mario would have a bigger impact on most teams than Bush would (including ours, especially with Kubiak's system).

bckey said:
The Texans aren't going to negotiate a contract with someone they plan to trade down for. They can only negotiate from a #1 pick standpoint at this time. It could be that Bush is asking way too much and the Texans don't realisticly think they can afford him and still be able to fill needs over the coming years. Or it could be what others are saying that Mario is a ploy to drive Bush's price down. If we do draft Bush then Domanick should be traded because the one/two punch is going to be Bush/Cook.

I will be happy with Bush/Williams/Young at #1 but anything other than Bush at #1 is not bpa.

Again, many people would argue (myself included) that Mario Williams is the BPA in this draft and the best fit for the Texans. It basically boils down to whether the Texans want to take the best offensive player (Bush) to add to their revamped offense (and new system) or the best defensive player (Mario) to terrorize opposing offenses.
 
bckey said:
What would we do with Peek and Babin if we did draft Williams?

Play Mario at RE and Weaver at LE during 1st and 2nd downs, then move Weaver inside to DT, Mario to LE, and insert Peek at RE for passing situations, or just play Mario at RE full-time and have Peek as depth. Mario also gives you another very athletic option that can play a 3-4 DL if they decide to mix in the occasional 3-4 package into the defense.

gtexan02 said:
Here are Julius Pepper's stats for last year, compared to averages:

tackles:50 (49.5)
sacks: 10.5 (10)
Forced fumbles: 2 (3.5)
Ints: 0 (0.75)

Is he good? Definitely. Is he a gamechanger on every play? Probably not. I think we can find our "Julius Pepper's" clone somewhere else, personally. I don't think 10 sacks should be all that impossible to achieve for a DE in a 4-3 scheme, and none of his other stats (tackles, forced fumbles, ints, etc) are that impressive. There were 16 players last year who had 10 or more sacks. Maybe he commands a lot of double teams and what not, but even so, Carolina ranked 7th in total defensive sacks compared to our 14th (not that huge of a jump, and only a difference of 8 take downs).

I don't know, I like Williams, but unless he's better than Peppers, I don't think we need to spend our #1 overall pick on the guy. 2 DL players in 2 years 1st rounds in a row? And when you already rank 14th in sacks the previous season? Seems wasteful

Mario is largely regarded as already being rated higher than Julius Peppers was when he came out, plus Mario is 12 lbs. heavier and a lot stronger than Peppers so he can be a more effective LE (if they choose to play him there) and be a better runstopper while being just as effective of a pass rusher.

Frak The Jags said:
& the $12 million we just gave Weaver is for him to sit the bench? I see us taking Ferguson before Williams.:twocents:

Drafting Mario does not mean Weaver goes to the bench, Weaver could move inside to DT (and presumably cut Seth Payne) or Mario could be our RE and relocate Peek to the bench. I doubt the Texans are even considering D'Brickashaw Ferguson at this point.

Dunta_23 said:
I think the real big thing about Reggie is his work eithic whether its in the game, training, film etc...he is a HARD WORKER....Mario Williams is a great player, no doubt about it....BUT....some people have doubted his motor and intensity on every play of the game...I read somewhere that the past 2 years he hasnt even been the best rated D-Lineman on his team...That went to Lawson...Mario has the ability to be a force and dominate...he just has to to do it on every down...

The 4 games I've seen of Mario I didn't see him really take any plays off, and the vast majority of the success that Lawson had was because Mario was drawing all the double teams and most opposing teams designed their plays away from Mario's side and right into Lawson. Even still, Mario put up better stats than Lawson this year.

AtheGreat said:
Correct me if im wrong, but i remember, in a 610 interview, Casserly saying there was no way we'd get Mario.:hmmm: This sounds like a ploy to get Reggie to sweat a little bit, contract-wise. I wouldn't take this too serious.

I have never heard this, so I don't know.
 
MorKnolle said:
Play Mario at RE and Weaver at LE during 1st and 2nd downs, then move Weaver inside to DT, Mario to LE, and insert Peek at RE for passing situations, or just play Mario at RE full-time and have Peek as depth. Mario also gives you another very athletic option that can play a 3-4 DL if they decide to mix in the occasional 3-4 package into the defense.
That sure sounds like making a whole whole lot of adjustments when we could just draft Reggie & let everyone play their natural positions. Just my take...
 
Frak The Jags said:
That sure sounds like making a whole whole lot of adjustments when we could just draft Reggie & let everyone play their natural positions. Just my take...

It's not really a bunch of adjustments our team would have to make, it's giving the opposing offense a bunch of different looks and different packages and confusing them.
 
MorKnolle said:
Play Mario at RE and Weaver at LE during 1st and 2nd downs, then move Weaver inside to DT, Mario to LE, and insert Peek at RE for passing situations, or just play Mario at RE full-time and have Peek as depth. Mario also gives you another very athletic option that can play a 3-4 DL if they decide to mix in the occasional 3-4 package into the defense.

You blinded me with science.
 
PokerStar said:
Mario is the top rated player in this draft. That is according to a good many NFL scouts and personel people, but will the Texans or other top 3 teams take him. Saints general manager said they will be looking at him very heavily if they cannot move and Jamaal Brown will be making the transition to LT, this was said on NFL Network. If we took Mario we have one of those scary defenses that offenses will fear. If we take Bush the same can be said about the offense. Bottomline both are great players and we cant go wrong with either.

I couldn't agree more.
 
I'm not sure if Mario is the best pick or not. I do know this: the most fun I have watching football is when my team is beating the hell out of the opposing QB. I will never complain about my team acquiring talented defensive linemen. Arguably, with the combination of Weaver, Mario, Robaire, Travis Johnson, and Payne we would not only be able to rush the passer but should be incredibly stout against the run. Man, it's exciting to think about that!
 
I would only consider Mario in a trade down scenero, both VY & Bush should be considered first with D'Brick a distant 3rd :rolleyes:
 
beerlover said:
I would only consider Mario in a trade down scenero, both VY & Bush should be considered first with D'Brick a distant 3rd :rolleyes:

vy belongs somewhere in the teens. d'brick, bush, leinart, cutler, williams, and hawk are all better fits in houston.
 
imo mario is getting overhyped like vernon davis because of his physical tools.

Ive watched him a couple time, and he doesnt move with the fluidity of Peppers. Peppers plays like someone 60 pounds lighter, Williams just isn't as quick as his measurables lead you to believe.
 
I haven't seen Mario play that much. I've seen him a few games, but he never really amazed me like when you watch some of the other big prospects (Bush, Young, Hawk, Davis). The ACC was a pretty weak offensive conference. There were a bunch of teams that had great defenses, but the only good offense in the ACC was Virginia Tech and against VT he didn't do much. In fact they played the first game of the season (Vick's first start) and he didn't even have a sack against him. Lawson and a LB had a few, but Williams didn't do much at all. Williams had a great end of the season, but in the first 5 games he only had 1 sack. He had great games against Southern Miss and Maryland, but other than that his numbers weren't unbelievable. I think he is going to be a great player and deserves to be a top 5 pick, but I wouldn't pick him at #1.
 
stevo3883 said:
imo mario is getting overhyped like vernon davis because of his physical tools.

Ive watched him a couple time, and he doesnt move with the fluidity of Peppers. Peppers plays like someone 60 pounds lighter, Williams just isn't as quick as his measurables lead you to believe.

I agree with the tools comment but IMO, D-Line is primarily defined by "tools." We aren't talking QBs that must possess vast skill sets and intelligence to make right reads, we aren't talking WR/TEs that must possess good blocking or catching techniques. I know that I am simplifying the position, but DE is pretty much, "go get the QB," with simple basics like bull rushing, swim moves, and then minor variation to the rush thrown in. The "tools" that Williams possesses arguably will allow him to absolutely dominate at the next level.

My concern about Williams is that he appeared to take plays off occasionally in college. I can somewhat agree with the fluidity aspect you speak of, but IMO he is a beast who can overcome opposing blockers with ease. He just didn't appear to have his head in the game on every single play.
 
I think if Reggie and his agent try to get us to make a really high contract for him like it is sounding I would really like us to try and trade down if possible. I don't feel like getting into a long drawn out contract discussion (I.E. Cedric Benson) and we seen how that turned out. I would not mind Super Mario but think trading down would be best option and get who is left at the place we move down to.:stirpot:
 
I think the Texans are set on Reggie Bush at #1 and the only thing that could change that is Reggie demanding to be paid like he already is the best rb in the nfl before playing a down or a huge offer from another team wanting to trade up. It is a little alarming that no other team even seems interested in making a move up for Reggie seeing how much the media and draft mongers have hyped him up. You would think that a once in a generation player like Bush (according to the RB nut huggers) that Casserly's phone wouldn't stop ringing. I think he is a great talent but I wouldn't put the Texans salary cap in jeopardy to sign him. Shaun Alexnder signed an 8 year $62 million deal. Is Bush worth that before he ever plays a down in the nfl?
 
I think our Dline is fine, we already invested last year's pick in a DLineman. I think Reggie will make more of an immediate impact than Mario. We spent a lot of money on Weaver and Babin and Peek are good players for us. 2 Back sets are more common in the NFL now and Reggie and DD would be great for us. He's a great player I just don't see why we'd need him so bad.
 
tulexan said:
I haven't seen Mario play that much. I've seen him a few games, but he never really amazed me like when you watch some of the other big prospects (Bush, Young, Hawk, Davis). The ACC was a pretty weak offensive conference. There were a bunch of teams that had great defenses, but the only good offense in the ACC was Virginia Tech and against VT he didn't do much. In fact they played the first game of the season (Vick's first start) and he didn't even have a sack against him. Lawson and a LB had a few, but Williams didn't do much at all. Williams had a great end of the season, but in the first 5 games he only had 1 sack. He had great games against Southern Miss and Maryland, but other than that his numbers weren't unbelievable. I think he is going to be a great player and deserves to be a top 5 pick, but I wouldn't pick him at #1.

If you watch the game closely and understand how defense works, you'll see how disruptive Mario was. He didn't have a sack against Florida State or Virginia Tech but he was a moajor disruptive force in both of those games, and most of Lawson's sacks on the year were because Mario chased the QB into Lawson. My personal favorite games of his on the year were Maryland (4 sacks) and Florida State (0 sacks, but a ton of penetration into the backfield and strong against the run, constant disruption of the opposing offense).

stevo3883 said:
imo mario is getting overhyped like vernon davis because of his physical tools.

Ive watched him a couple time, and he doesnt move with the fluidity of Peppers. Peppers plays like someone 60 pounds lighter, Williams just isn't as quick as his measurables lead you to believe.

Peppers does move more fluidly right now, but Mario is still as fast and explosive and is much stronger, and once he improves his techniques some and learns to use his size and athleticism more he should be a phenomenal force on the DLine.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3785598.html

"We had a very good visit with him," Texans general manager Charley Casserly said. "He's worthy of the first pick in the draft. The guy has excellent talent to play the run and rush the passer. He has alll the measurables you're looking for. He's productive, has a high motor, and he has not reached his potential." - Charley Casserly
 
TexanFan881 said:
I think our Dline is fine, we already invested last year's pick in a DLineman. I think Reggie will make more of an immediate impact than Mario. We spent a lot of money on Weaver and Babin and Peek are good players for us. 2 Back sets are more common in the NFL now and Reggie and DD would be great for us. He's a great player I just don't see why we'd need him so bad.


I was alittle shocked too. Why is noone interested in trading up for RB if he is so special? I was really shocked to hear that after alll the praise he has received.I thought the Jets might need him for sure .
 
You know, I'm slowly warming up to the idea of the Saints taking Mario at #2 if we don't find any trade partners:hmmm: Mario and Will Smith would give oppossing offenses some serious problems:hmmm: Yeah, I'm on the draft Mario Williams @ #2 bandwagon now. Charles Grant can take his inconsistency, and poor work ethic somewhere else now. Make it happen coach Payton:cool:
 
..... with Mario Williams...... I've been hearing it all day on ESPN..... PTI, the Last Word, now, SportsCenter, where their Football guy says the Texans are indeed talking to Mario Williams, and they said they are talking Contract......

He said it's just Houston trying to gain a little leverage so Reggie doesn't ask for QB money, which the little guy says Reggie is looking for. Which is why Reggie is visiting other teams..... along with keeping his name in the news, he wants to keep his value up.

Again, this guy says the Titans VP/Gm favors Vince..... norm Chow favors Lienart....... the GM trumps Chow, so Matt has to work his way back into the #3 spot.
 
Being the first pick in the draft has its advantages. One of them being that they can start contract negotiations with as many players as they'd like. Mario Williams has a legitimate shot at number one, and therefore deserves to have a contract offered to him. Who we take is another story.
 
Mario Williams and the Texans. Did anyone else hear this on the 6:00 news? Bob Allen said sources have told him that Bush want's #1 QB money, so their negotiating with Williams Agent.

Could be a smoke screen...... Could be their just testing the waters..... maybe a trade in the works.... who knows!

I love this stuff!
 
The #1 pick isn't going to be cheap. The Texans are going to have to suck it up. Can you imagine what the fan base will be like if we pass up on Vince Young AND Reggie Bush? I know I would be upset. Some Texans fans already haven't renewed their season tickets. Even more won't renew them should they not get Bush. It's just a ploy...I hope.
 
The Texans are negotiating with Mario Williams, Vince Young, and Reggie Bush. Since they have the first overall pick, they can negotiate with potential players. The money these guys want can affect their stock.
 
Maybe Casserly really will draft Mario Williams just to try and make the majority of the fanbase angry. Everyone will want his head on a stick and he'll go take the NFL VP job or whatever it is. Darn you Casserly! :sarcasm:
 
Due diligence being performed by the front office. It is a good thing.

I wonder if you could offer a discount to get a team to draft you over another guy....

I realise that this is unlikely since the whole thing about going number one is the paycheck but intriguing none the less.

Perhaps a home town discount.....
:stirpot:
 
This is just the front office doing their homework and putting pressure on Reggie to lower his price. Face it, Reggie wants #1 money, if he doesn't get drafted #1 he will lose a lot of money and possibly will go to a situation that isn't as good as the Texans (NOLA).
 
TexanSam said:
The #1 pick isn't going to be cheap. The Texans are going to have to suck it up. Can you imagine what the fan base will be like if we pass up on Vince Young AND Reggie Bush? I know I would be upset. Some Texans fans already haven't renewed their season tickets. Even more won't renew them should they not get Bush. It's just a ploy...I hope.

Last I checked there was an 8 year waiting list for season tickets, so hopefully we take Mario (my #1 guy in the draft anyways) and a bunch of the people ahead of me in line drop out so I can get tickets sooner. I for one would like to see the Texans show the they have the balls to make a move like this if they believe it is in the best interest of the team rather than sticking with Bush since he is the popular consensus pick.
 
MorKnolle said:
Last I checked there was an 8 year waiting list for season tickets.

That just isn't true. I paid $10 last year to get on a list for season tickets. The Texans set a time to call and you have to pay half up front if you decide you like the seats. I turned down the seats they offered last year. I already got another letter for this year to call on April 17. I don't have the money this year so I won't even call at my allotted time. But the point is they do have season tickets available.
 
nunusguy said:
Bush is clearly the BPA in this Draft, or last years Draft, or probably the 2004
Draft also, etc. But there is still a possibility for a godfather offer, therefor
we need a back-up plan for the BPA on the Board if picking at 4 or 5 or whatever. Therefor good idea to look at other top picks just in case.

Yeah well, if the kid asks for seventy million with thirty up front we'll see. Nothing is a lock yet. I'm not a big Mario supporter. I keep hearing Peppers name
with his. Now i loved Ole Lawrence Marshal in Hempstaed...But nobody is going to tell there wasn't a dimes bit of difference between Bruce Smith and Ray Childress. Childress was a good blue chip pro. Smith is a HOFer. That being said, Mario fits a hole. And he's the second best player in the draft. I could live with the pick.
 
mexican_texan said:
The Texans are negotiating with Mario Williams, Vince Young, and Reggie Bush. Since they have the first overall pick, they can negotiate with potential players. The money these guys want can affect their stock.

Not true, there have been no reports, zero of any contract negotiations with Vince or Reggie......... so far to date, only Mario.



TexanSam said:
The #1 pick isn't going to be cheap. The Texans are going to have to suck it up. Can you imagine what the fan base will be like if we pass up on Vince Young AND Reggie Bush?

Suck it up?? I'd be Peaved, if the Texans pay a RB #1 QB money without playing the first down. Epecially when he's going to be part of a two back system.

bckey said:
That just isn't true. I paid $10 last year to get on a list for season tickets. The Texans set a time to call and you have to pay half up front if you decide you like the seats. I turned down the seats they offered last year. I already got another letter for this year to call on April 17. I don't have the money this year so I won't even call at my allotted time. But the point is they do have season tickets available.

I got on the PSL season ticket waiting list two, maybe three months ago. I recieved my letter to call them yesterday @ 4:40 p.m. . I called to tell them to take me off the list since I've acquired PSLs & tickets through this MB.
 
thunderkyss said:
I got on the PSL season ticket waiting list two, maybe three months ago. I recieved my letter to call them yesterday @ 4:40 p.m. . I called to tell them to take me off the list since I've acquired PSLs & tickets through this MB.


Glad you got some thunderkyss. I'm going to make a serious run at some next year. Just couldn't afford it this year. I am going to the Texans/Cowboys game in Dallas though and I'll probably get tickets off ebay for one of our home games also. Tailgating at Reliant is just plain awesome.

The problem I have is that I have to drive roundtrip from Corpus Christi. I will probably sell half my season tickets and make 4 games when I get them.
 
Judging from the hype, I'm thinking that Bush is looking to be the highest paid draft pick ever. And he'll probably get it. Not sure that it's gonna be us paying him, though.
 
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