Mario movement rumors (MERGED) Signs with Buffalo $100 million

[dalemurphy]

If Rosenfels hadn't pulled a Rosencopter he would be our starting QB right now. Schaub is nothing special, good or bad. Mario is special. Out of 64 starting DE's in the league he is a top ten. Schaub is a top 15 out of 32.

Those rankings (valid or not) are irrelevant.

The Texans defense, with Mario, has been consistently one of the worst in the league. This year, without him, it is a top 10 defense.

The Texans offense, with Schaub, is consistently in the top 1/2 of the league. Without him, it has never been (even with Rosenfels).

I don't care who is better. Who is more important is all I care about. The fact that the defense has been succeeding without Mario doesn't mean he is not a good player. It does, however, mean he is not an essential member of this defense.

 

[HOU-TEX]

Those rankings (valid or not) are irrelevant.

The Texans defense, with Mario, has been consistently one of the worst in the league. This year, without him, it is a top 10 defense.

The Texans offense, with Schaub, is consistently in the top 1/2 of the league. Without him, it has never been (even with Rosenfels).

I don't care who is better. Who is more important is all I care about. The fact that the defense has been succeeding without Mario doesn't mean he is not a good player. It does, however, mean he is not an essential member of this defense.

Look, I've seen a lot of poor logic and ridiculous player scouting from you in the past. But that statement's just plain dumb. LOL, good grief

 

[BigBull17]

Those rankings (valid or not) are irrelevant.

The Texans defense, with Mario, has been consistently one of the worst in the league. This year, without him, it is a top 10 defense.

The Texans offense, with Schaub, is consistently in the top 1/2 of the league. Without him, it has never been (even with Rosenfels).

I don't care who is better. Who is more important is all I care about. The fact that the defense has been succeeding without Mario doesn't mean he is not a good player. It does, however, mean he is not an essential member of this defense.

Any statement YOU make on this subject has little to no relavance. Your son Smith was on this same awful defense last year. J-Jo has been on a bad defense. A lot of really good defensive players have been on bad defenses. Frank Bush was as competent at his job as a blind midget throwing darts at a playbook. With Mario, at the beginning of the year, this was as good a defensive unit as any in football. It still is good, meaning we have a DC that can shut down an offense and make up for injuries.

 

[leebigeztx]

If Rosenfels hadn't pulled a Rosencopter he would be our starting QB right now. Schaub is nothing special, good or bad. Mario is special. Out of 64 starting DE's in the league he is a top ten. Schaub is a top 15 out of 32.

Schaub is truly a system qb. If he were playing anywhere else, he would be below avg or avg. Right now, we"ve seen the best of schaub. He's needs alot of things to go right to be successful. Mario is special and still getting better. Mario and players of his ilk cost more than players like schaub. I think there is enough money to pay schaub and mario, but its easier finding a schaub than it is a mario.

 

[Ole Miss Texan]

Rosenfels? That's one of the silliest comments I've ever seen in my life. Tell me, why isn't he starting for the winless Miami Dolphins? Did he have a rosencopter moment there?

If Jake Delhomme, Rex Grossman, Eli Manning and a 37 year old Kurt Warner can get to and/or win the Super Bowl.... I don't mind taking my chances with Schaub.

No he's not Brady, Manning, Brees or Rodgers... but not many QBs are. I'll take my chances with him over Rosenfels any day.

 

[steelbtexan]

Yeah, Carolina is rebuilding still, and I could see them going for a DE in the 1st this year. Quinton Couples would make a lot of sense for them if they have a top 5 pick, but they could also go with a WR in that spot. Maybe they go after Mario in free agency and take a WR or OT with their 1st. I dunno, I just don't see any team giving up a 1st and a 3rd to get Mario after these last two season's injuries.

I dont see another team giving up a 1st and a 3rd for MW either. I wouldn't trade him within division. But I would trade him within confrence. I could see the Pats trading for MW and giving up a 1st and a 2nd for MW and the Texans 3rd.

Like DM said the real kicker in trading MW is the cap savings. It would allow the Texans to be real players in the FA market. Like they were this yr. Any draft picks obtained for trading MW would just be an added bonus.

 

[Big Lou]

Rosenfels? That's one of the silliest comments I've ever seen in my life. Tell me, why isn't he starting for the winless Miami Dolphins? Did he have a rosencopter moment there?

If Jake Delhomme, Rex Grossman, Eli Manning and a 37 year old Kurt Warner can get to and/or win the Super Bowl.... I don't mind taking my chances with Schaub.

No he's not Brady, Manning, Brees or Rodgers... but not many QBs are. I'll take my chances with him over Rosenfels any day.

Schaub>Rosenfels

However with that said, Sage worked pretty well in this system when he wasn't trying to overcompensate. This Offense is a "System Offense". Guys that are average or above average can be great in it. Guys that are just below average can look like servicable starters.

I prefer Schaub, sure he throws that untimely pick 6, sure he underthrows Andre, and overthrows K-Dub, but he's above average in this system. There has never been a Defense in Houston while he's been here. Now that there is a D, lets give him some time. I think a big part of the offenses struggles has been continuity with starters and what kind of packages you can run when key starters are injured. This Offense has to get used to getting in to a rythm that is ball control versus explosive. They don't have to put up 42 to win anymore, they have had to take thier foot of the gas just a little and that has really changed things in my opinion.

Have you every heard a Dragster and 3/4 throttle? It sounds and runs like crap, but put the pedal down and its a symphony. I think this offense is the same way, and they are learning to adapt.

 

[Dutchrudder]

Probably not a top 15 one and two but what about N.E. at 30 & 31 or 31 and #63? Leaving PATs with a first and second to draft.

What would the Pats want with Mario? They never sign big name free agents, but rather get people on the cheap when a team is willing to give up on them (Moss, Ocho, Haynesworth, etc). They build from within mostly, so I don't see them trading two high picks for a guy like Mario and then going out and giving him a HUGE contract. The Pats aren't dumb, and most GMs around the league aren't either, they know what they get in Mario. He's good, but not consistent enough to be great.

True but do you think any team will pay Mario $18m salary for one year? No way. He knows that. He will take the deal that suits him best. For example, he could be offered a 6 year (27 years old next Jan) contract $80m. $25 m bonus divided by 6 (to determine cap) He would avg $9 m salary + $4m bonus = $13m salary cap hit. He gets $25m upfront and guaranteed two year salary ($18m). So 1st year he has the $9m salary + 25m bonus= $34m. Think he'd sign that rather than take a franchise tag? Benefit to team is he can be cut after two years costing team only $4m against cap/year. With $25m up front he could be pursuaded to take a smaller salary first two season to backload the deal. That happens and if I am right his first contract was similar.

A $13million cap hit for an OLB that should get 15 sacks a season or a disruptive DE like he has provened to be is reasonable. I think we would get 2-3 trade offers IF we decided not to keep him. His cap hit this season $14m and cap is expected to increase about that much next year. So we can re-sign him at about same under the $120m cap(of this year) and still have the increase next season of about $14m to spend elsewhere + the other amounts allowed by new CBA. What could we do with another first and second round selections + $14m saved by trading Mario +$14m in increased cap space + $3million allowed in new CBA? That's $31million plus an extra first and second round to select or trade.

I'm not saying anyone will pay 18 million for Mario next year, I'm just saying the Texans will be in a bad spot to negotiate if they franchise him. 1 year at 18 mill guaranteed is easy enough for him to play for. Get a good year under his belt in a contract-year situation and then get a huge payout.

Problem is, a torn pectoral injury could alter his ability. Look at Elvis Dumerville as he had the same injury last year. This year Elvis hasn't had a sack, has barely done anything and doesn't look the same. Mario and Elvis has very similar stats over their first four years (both 2006 draftees). We may be dealing with a career altering injury here, and I don't want to see the Texans double down on a guy who may never be himself again.

If the Texans can get even 1 high pick for him (1st or 2nd) I would be very happy with a trade. We can already see that the defense seems to be doing well enough without him, I really don't think he will be that difficult to replace. If they focus on getting Foster, Myers, Rackers and Schaub re-signed, they can put some money into a #2 WR and move towards the "Elite offense, good defense" strategy. No need to tie up 13+ million a year in Mario unless the defense goes really far south in the second half of the season.

 

[badboy]

Or we could simly give him a decent offer at about 7-8 million a year and tell him take it or leave it. He hasn't played a full season in two years..

GMs including ours may focus on the sizzle rather than the steak. Mario has proven to be at least an above avg 4-3 DE and as OLB avg 1 sack per game prior to injury. If we take all emotion out of it, I think several teams would jumpt all over opportunity to have him. A take it or leave it offer is not the way I'd go as he would probably go. We will have the means to re-sign him if we choose or trade if offer is right.

 

[badboy]

Cleveland may be in the market for a pass rusher too. And they have 2 first round picks so that's another team that may be willing to give up a lot for a premier Defensive End since they switched back to the 4-3 this year.

At #7 Browns could probably select DE Quinten Coples or maybe a QB if McCoy is not successful. #15 could bring them Oline help as LT Joe Thomas is 31. I would love to have #15 and a 3rd for Mario.

 

[badboy]

I don't know if that's true. We simply don't know.

I don't think it is good business to try to find out or anything, but the fact of the matter is that we do not know.

Have we ever had another QB step in with this OL? With Ben Tate & Arian Foster in the backfield? With Dressen, Cassey, & OD?

I don't think so. Bottom line, Schaub isn't a gamer, he takes what he can get & that's it. It works fine for us, he's pretty good at it & our offense is ranked pretty high because of it. However, I think the argument can be made that it is just as much because of the system & play-makers around Schaub as it is Schaub.

Again, it would be stupid to drop Schaub to keep Mario & see what Lienart or some other unproven or failed-at-a-previous-stop QB can do. But we signed Schaub to big money before he played a down...

At the same time, I'd look at what Washington is doing with the Shanahans, Grossman, & Beck...... not very enticing if you ask me. But they don't have an Arian Foster or a gel'n OLine.

WOuld you see similarities between Schaub and UH's Case Keenum based on your post?

 

[Dutchrudder]

WOuld you see similarities between Schaub and UH's Case Keenum based on your post?

A&M's Ryan Tannehill looks exactly like Schaub to me. Only difference is that Ryan's legs work.

 

[badboy]

Yeah I would agree with you also but I will stick to what I said during the whole Cushbeast overtraining saga.

I told everyone who was freaking out over his bad season that no matter how many steroids you do it doesn't make you a smarter player, it doesn't help put you in position to make tackles, it doesn't make help you judge where to play coverage.

I will say the same thing in regards to DeMeco, assuming he gets his speed back (well see after the injury) even if he loses a tiny bit of power and speed he still hopefully has that instinct to be where he needs to be when he needs to be there.

Do you use a high round to draft an insurance player?

 

[BullNation4Life]

Those rankings (valid or not) are irrelevant.

The Texans defense, with Mario, has been consistently one of the worst in the league. This year, without him, it is a top 10 defense.

The Texans offense, with Schaub, is consistently in the top 1/2 of the league. Without him, it has never been (even with Rosenfels).

I don't care who is better. Who is more important is all I care about. The fact that the defense has been succeeding without Mario doesn't mean he is not a good player. It does, however, mean he is not an essential member of this defense.

Are you seriously going to stand by these points? Are you freaking kidding me? I guess your Hate on Mario agenda knows no bounds huh? Dude your credibility just flatlined.....:mariopalm:

Let me axe you a question, what has Antonio Smith done since Mario Williams went out with injury? How many sacks have we seen him get? I'll help you out, it starts with a z and ends with an ero.... Hell have we even seen him get close to the QB in 3 weeks? I know I haven't and wanna know why, come in close I'll tell you propaganda man, IT'S BECAUSE MARIO WILLIAMS IS OUT OF THE LINE UP! Teams double down on Smith because they do not have to gameplan for #90 anymore, case closed...

pathetic, simply pathetic...

 

[Kthx]

As long as that insurance could pay off on multiple fronts. I could see taking a LB in the second similar to how we grabbed Brooks Reed last draft.

So yeah I would.

 

[BullNation4Life]

As long as that insurance could pay off on multiple fronts. I could see taking a LB in the second similar to how we grabbed Brooks Reed last draft.

So yeah I would.

What about taking a true SS either in the Draft or FA and moving GQ back to #2 Corner? I could seriously see this as a plausible scenario...

 

[badboy]

What would the Pats want with Mario? They never sign big name free agents, but rather get people on the cheap when a team is willing to give up on them (Moss, Ocho, Haynesworth, etc). They build from within mostly, so I don't see them trading two high picks for a guy like Mario and then going out and giving him a HUGE contract. The Pats aren't dumb, and most GMs around the league aren't either, they know what they get in Mario. He's good, but not consistent enough to be great.



I'm not saying anyone will pay 18 million for Mario next year, I'm just saying the Texans will be in a bad spot to negotiate if they franchise him. 1 year at 18 mill guaranteed is easy enough for him to play for. Get a good year under his belt in a contract-year situation and then get a huge payout.

Problem is, a torn pectoral injury could alter his ability. Look at Elvis Dumerville as he had the same injury last year. This year Elvis hasn't had a sack, has barely done anything and doesn't look the same. Mario and Elvis has very similar stats over their first four years (both 2006 draftees). We may be dealing with a career altering injury here, and I don't want to see the Texans double down on a guy who may never be himself again.

If the Texans can get even 1 high pick for him (1st or 2nd) I would be very happy with a trade. We can already see that the defense seems to be doing well enough without him, I really don't think he will be that difficult to replace. If they focus on getting Foster, Myers, Rackers and Schaub re-signed, they can put some money into a #2 WR and move towards the "Elite offense, good defense" strategy. No need to tie up 13+ million a year in Mario unless the defense goes really far south in the second half of the season.

NE missed SB last season and many think will again this year.

They have two first & 2 seconds. My plan would be trade #30 (or 31 if applicable) plus the lower 2nd for Mario which takes pressure off DBs as the plan was for Texans. NE then uses the higher first round they kept to draft a corner and the other 2nd round for a safety. That defense would resolve many problems and cost little.

 

[Kthx]

What about taking a true SS either in the Draft or FA and moving GQ back to #2 Corner? I could seriously see this as a plausible scenario...

That would basically solve our secondary problems with Manning/High Draft Safety and then Quin/JoJo and Jackson/Harris im assuming would play nicks.

I guess the value of that depends on how much value safeties have during the draft over our other needs like receiver.

 

[Texn4life]

That would basically solve our secondary problems with Manning/High Draft Safety and then Quin/JoJo and Jackson/Harris im assuming would play nicks.

I guess the value of that depends on how much value safeties have during the draft over our other needs like receiver.

There aren't any safeties that I think are capable of stepping in and playing right away in the 2012 draft so I don't know about that scenario. I'm not sure of the FA's that will be available though.

 

[badboy]

What about taking a true SS either in the Draft or FA and moving GQ back to #2 Corner? I could seriously see this as a plausible scenario...

This defense does not use the traditional SS (reason the previous player was let go). I did post a mock a few weeks ago about draft a safety high & moving Quin to CB2. However, our passing defense keeps getting better regardless of reason, so that might be hard to get done. Way to think out of the box though.

 

[Rey]

Glover was not all that as a corner...

I think he's been much better at safety...I'd rather leave him there and let him grow into a fixture on this team at the safety position and draft another corner to compete with Kareem/Harris/Allen/others for the CB2 spot...

 

[Texn4life]

Glover was not all that as a corner...

I think he's been much better at safety...

I'm pretty good friends with a scout for another team that scouted Glover in college, and I can remember at the time when the Texans drafted him that he saw him more as a safety than a corner. I guess it turns out the Texans did too.

 

[TEXANRED]

Rosenfels? That's one of the silliest comments I've ever seen in my life. Tell me, why isn't he starting for the winless Miami Dolphins? Did he have a rosencopter moment there?

If Jake Delhomme, Rex Grossman, Eli Manning and a 37 year old Kurt Warner can get to and/or win the Super Bowl.... I don't mind taking my chances with Schaub.

No he's not Brady, Manning, Brees or Rodgers... but not many QBs are. I'll take my chances with him over Rosenfels any day.

I wasn't trying to start a Schaub sucks thread. If I were given an option of keeping either Mario or Schaub I would keep Mario.

 

[Rey]

Rosenfels? That's one of the silliest comments I've ever seen in my life. Tell me, why isn't he starting for the winless Miami Dolphins? Did he have a rosencopter moment there?

Some kind of season ending ordeal I think...

 

[thunderkyss]

The Texans defense, with Mario, has been consistently one of the worst in the league. This year, without him, it is a top 10 defense.

I don't care who is better. Who is more important is all I care about. The fact that the defense has been succeeding without Mario doesn't mean he is not a good player. It does, however, mean he is not an essential member of this defense.

As good as our defense has looked, we also blitz over 58% of the time, without Mario. That can't be good.

We'll have to wait until Atlanta (maybe Cincy) to see what we'd look like against a decent QB + Receivers.

 

[steelbtexan]

At #7 Browns could probably select DE Quinten Coples or maybe a QB if McCoy is not successful. #15 could bring them Oline help as LT Joe Thomas is 31. I would love to have #15 and a 3rd for Mario.

If I were the Browns I would take Jeffries at 7

Reiff at 15

Konz at 39

The offense would be fixed and the rest of the draft which they still have multiple picks from the Atl trade to supplement the defense.

Enough of the Browns draft talk. LOL But there's no way that I would trade a 1st let alone a 1st and a 3rd for MW.

 

[Ole Miss Texan]

My thoughts on franchising Mario:

1) We would use the "non exclusive" tag, assuming that's still around post new CBA. This would allow Mario to not only negotiate a long term deal with us, but other teams as well. The Texans would have first rights to match another team's deal if he decides on one, otherwise we would receive two 1st round picks. I believe the "compensation" of draft picks from another team could be negotiated to the two teams' liking.

2) I feel like we would attempt to negotiate a long term deal with him. It seems our normal business course is to do this after a season, but my gut (which is often wrong) tells me we'd be negotiation as we slap the tag on him and it would carry into the 2012 season. Assuming Mario and the Texans decide on a new long term contract, say half way through the season... Mario would have been paid the hypothetical $9M (half of our assumption of an $18M franchise tag on him) plus the remaining 2nd half of the season at whatever the contract states. Look at Julius Peppers contract from 2010: 6 yr $84M or $14M per year. So that's $7M for the 2nd half of the season (estimate) or $16M alltogether for the 2012 season. Mario would be making $2M less but would have the luxury of a brand new 5-6 year contract. That's security and probably another $30M in guaranteed money. That's a wise move by Mario.

3) Franchise him, negotiate with him.... if its not gonna work - trade him. Teams trade for players so they don't have to bid on them during free agency. Once Mario hits FA... teams are competing with 31 other organizations to sign him (ideally). I don't know what would satisfy me as compensation for Mario b/c I want him on the team. But, trading him is far better than losing him to free agency and this is accomplished via franchise tag. Additionally, if we do trade him, the new team will negotiate a brand new long term contract with him. It's not like they're trading for him and he's going to be on the 1 year franchise tag. People seem to not understand this part of it.

 

[gary]

It is too bad Mario is as injury prone as he is because if he were not then I would re-sign him without bilking. Yes, when he is healthy he is worth it IMHO.

 

[steelbtexan]

As good as our defense has looked, we also blitz over 58% of the time, without Mario. That can't be good.

We'll have to wait until Atlanta (maybe Cincy) to see what we'd look like against a decent QB + Receivers.

Since Wade said MW would only be dropping in coverage a couple of times a game. They probably were blitzing more than 58% of the time with MW in the lineup.

 

[steelbtexan]

Glover was not all that as a corner...

I think he's been much better at safety...I'd rather leave him there and let him grow into a fixture on this team at the safety position and draft another corner to compete with Kareem/Harris/Allen/others for the CB2 spot...

This is what they are going to do.

The question is how high of a draft pick are they going to use to try to fill that need?

How high of a pick would you use? I would use a 1st or 2nd depending on which CB is available. What I wouldn't do is reach to fill this need. Like Rick/Gary have done in the past.

 

[thunderkyss]

Since Wade said MW would only be dropping in coverage a couple of times a game. They probably were blitzing more than 58% of the time with MW in the lineup.

When Mario was in the game the front 5 would get their hands on a QB multiple times per game; Antonio Smith was getting there once per game & our rookie was becoming a household name.

If you can't see this defense is different with Mario, there really isn't a whole lot anyone can say.

That's not to say Brooks & Connor can't take up the slack, but they aren't right now. They have 9 weeks to get there though, come play-off time blitzing 58% of the time isn't going to work.

 

[thunderkyss]

This is what they are going to do.

The question is how high of a draft pick are they going to use to try to fill that need?

How high of a pick would you use? I would use a 1st or 2nd depending on which CB is available. What I wouldn't do is reach to fill this need. Like Rick/Gary have done in the past.

I seriously doubt they are going to draft another corner. They are happy with Kareem & are comfortable with his development. You can tell by his playing time increasing.

They also like McCain & I can't imagine Brandon Harris not eventually getting on the field.

If they don't sign Mario before the draft, chances are they'll take an outside rusher & a NT.... Not necessarily a bigger NT, but a JJWAtt type better player NT.

 

[steelbtexan]

When Mario was in the game the front 5 would get their hands on a QB multiple times per game; Antonio Smith was getting there once per game & our rookie was becoming a household name.

If you can't see this defense is different with Mario, there really isn't a whole lot anyone can say.

That's not to say Brooks & Connor can't take up the slack, but they aren't right now. They have 9 weeks to get there though, come play-off time blitzing 58% of the time isn't going to work.

Not disagreeing with you

Just saying the Texans were probably blitzing more than 58% of time with MW in the game.

 

[steelbtexan]

I seriously doubt they are going to draft another corner. They are happy with Kareem & are comfortable with his development. You can tell by his playing time increasing.

They also like McCain & I can't imagine Brandon Harris not eventually getting on the field.

If they don't sign Mario before the draft, chances are they'll take an outside rusher & a NT.... Not necessarily a bigger NT, but a JJWAtt type better player NT.

Although I disagree with you, you're probably right. I just hope they get 3 impact players out of the draft and FA next yr. (Watt/Joseph/Manning and Reed to an extenpt for example)

 

[gary]

I would not sign Mario just based on injury history alone. I would tag and trade him.

 

[stingray]

Those rankings (valid or not) are irrelevant.

The Texans defense, with Mario, has been consistently one of the worst in the league. This year, without him, it is a top 10 defense.

The Texans offense, with Schaub, is consistently in the top 1/2 of the league. Without him, it has never been (even with Rosenfels).

I don't care who is better. Who is more important is all I care about. The fact that the defense has been succeeding without Mario doesn't mean he is not a good player. It does, however, mean he is not an essential member of this defense.

Man, I have seen some crap over the years on this board... But Whoa Nellie, this really is the dumbest statement I have ever seen on this board.

 

[ObsiWan]

Heard today that the franchise cost on Mario is about 20 mill. When I made statement above I thought his franchise cost would be 10 mill as a LB. Sorry at 20 mill or 1/7 of whole salary cap for the TExans for next year I would say pass. Just don't sign him to a big dollar long term contract. Just my opinion.

The cost to franchise a defensive end is $12.4 million per Wiki

According to the football outsiders it will cost a team $10.09 million to apply the franchise tag to an OLB. LINK

Seems to me you were right the first time with the $10 mil number.

That's less than he's due this year.

Whoever quoted that $20 million number was talking out of his (or her) butt.

 

[ObsiWan]

Those rankings (valid or not) are irrelevant.

The Texans defense, with Mario, has been consistently one of the worst in the league. This year, without him, it is a top 10 defense.

The Texans offense, with Schaub, is consistently in the top 1/2 of the league. Without him, it has never been (even with Rosenfels).

I don't care who is better. Who is more important is all I care about. The fact that the defense has been succeeding without Mario doesn't mean he is not a good player. It does, however, mean he is not an essential member of this defense.

That's twice you've said that crap.

You act like Mario has been gone all year. We got to BE a top ten defensive status WITH Mario in the lineup. Mario was part of the top ten defense for 4-1/2 of our 8 games. In the other two and a half we played crappy offenses like the Jags. Those are facts that make your argument bogus.

We beat the media darling Steelers WITH him in the lineup.
When he went down we lost to the freakin' Raiders.
And sure would have been nice to have him in the lineup against Flacco and the Ravens. The defense stayed in the top ten because we've played against crappy offenses (Tenn., Jags), since Mario's been hurt.


By the way, Schaub was in ALL those games. He didn't make much of a difference in the ones we lost.

...unless you count the INT he threw at the end of the Raiders game.

Look, both of them are important parts of our team. Unless I get offered a Herschel Walker-like deal, I'm not trading either of them.

 

[Lucky]

The cost to franchise a defensive end is $12.4 million per Wiki

According to the football outsiders it will cost a team $10.09 million to apply the franchise tag to an OLB. LINK

Seems to me you were right the first time with the $10 mil number.

That's less than he's due this year.

Exactly. But that's why the franchise numbers don't apply to Mario. The tag amount is the franchise number or 120% of the previous year's salary. Whichever is higher. Rotoworld has Mario at $13.8 million this year, so to franchise him would take a $16.56 mil tender. That would likely be exclusive, so Mario would not be able to shop for another offer.

Mario will likely sign a deal with the Texans in the offseason with a smaller cap number than he played under this season. That will allow the Texans to extend Foster. Schaub? He's still under contract for 2012. How he performs in the playoffs (yes, I said playoffs) should help determine if he is the long term answer at QB.

 

[dalemurphy]

Are you seriously going to stand by these points? Are you freaking kidding me? I guess your Hate on Mario agenda knows no bounds huh? Dude your credibility just flatlined.....:mariopalm:

Let me axe you a question, what has Antonio Smith done since Mario Williams went out with injury? How many sacks have we seen him get? I'll help you out, it starts with a z and ends with an ero.... Hell have we even seen him get close to the QB in 3 weeks? I know I haven't and wanna know why, come in close I'll tell you propaganda man, IT'S BECAUSE MARIO WILLIAMS IS OUT OF THE LINE UP! Teams double down on Smith because they do not have to gameplan for #90 anymore, case closed...

pathetic, simply pathetic...

1. Antonio Smith caused the Brice McCain interception return for a TD when he hit Hasselbeck's throwing hand in motion.

2. I'm not arguing anything about Antonio Smith. We're talking about Mario next year and if we can afford to keep him. Believe me, if Antonio Smith was headed into FA and would cost the team over $10 million a year, I would say that he should be let go as well. We have some important and difficult business to do this off-season

 

[dalemurphy]

Man, I have seen some crap over the years on this board... But Whoa Nellie, this really is the dumbest statement I have ever seen on this board.

What is inaccurate about this statement? I'm not blaming Mario for either the failures of the past nor am I arguing that his absence is the reason for this season's success. The point, which is not dumb at all, is that he is not an essential part of the success of the defense, nor does his presence alone significantly improve the defense. That information is based on 5 and 1/2 years of strong, anecdotal evidence. Who can argue that point?

 

[dalemurphy]

That's twice you've said that crap.

You act like Mario has been gone all year. We got to BE a top ten defensive status WITH Mario in the lineup. Mario was part of the top ten defense for 4-1/2 of our 8 games. In the other two and a half we played crappy offenses like the Jags. Those are facts that make your argument bogus.

We beat the media darling Steelers WITH him in the lineup.
When he went down we lost to the freakin' Raiders.
And sure would have been nice to have him in the lineup against Flacco and the Ravens. The defense stayed in the top ten because we've played against crappy offenses (Tenn., Jags), since Mario's been hurt.


By the way, Schaub was in ALL those games. He didn't make much of a difference in the ones we lost.

...unless you count the INT he threw at the end of the Raiders game.

Look, both of them are important parts of our team. Unless I get offered a Herschel Walker-like deal, I'm not trading either of them.

Mario is a good player. I wish he was healthy. I wish we could re-sign him to a long term deal that is cap-friendly and in line with his true worth. I doubt that will happen, though. Since Mario went down with a season-ending injury (AGAIN), the defense has continued to play very well. There were some struggles in the Baltimore game but let's not pretend it was from a lack of a pass rush. The past two weeks, there has been less of a pass rush but I think that is largely a result of the focus on the running game. By the way, Reed does have 2 sacks in those games and the turnovers are piling up.

Take Schaub out of the lineup against a bad defense and replace him with Leinart. Do you think the offense would be successful and the team would be a playoff-caliber team? I don't.

Do you think this is a playoff-caliber team without Mario on it? I do. Furthermore, I think the team could be even better using the cap resources Mario would burn up this off-season on other players. I could be wrong but I don't think there is anything crazy about that belief.

 

[thunderkyss]

We had (sacks - hits) (avg sacks/game)

Indy (3 - 7) (1.75)
Miami (2 - 7) (3.85)
Saints (2 - 5) (2.375)
Pitts (5 - 8) (3.125)
Oak (3 - 12) (1.14)
Ravens (2 - 7) (2.28)
Tennessee (2 - 3) (1.43)
Jags (1 - 5) (2.75)

Maybe it's just perception.... these numbers show our pass rush has performed at or below our opponents average just as often as we've played above that average. Twice with Mario we've played above & below our opponents average. Twice without Mario we've played above & below our opponents average.

I still like to believe those 4 games, Oak, Ravens, Tennessee, & Jags would have been even more dominant with Mario (& AJ) in the line-up.

 

[dalemurphy]

Are you seriously going to stand by these points? Are you freaking kidding me? I guess your Hate on Mario agenda knows no bounds huh? Dude your credibility just flatlined.....:mariopalm:

Let me axe you a question, what has Antonio Smith done since Mario Williams went out with injury? How many sacks have we seen him get? I'll help you out, it starts with a z and ends with an ero.... Hell have we even seen him get close to the QB in 3 weeks? I know I haven't and wanna know why, come in close I'll tell you propaganda man, IT'S BECAUSE MARIO WILLIAMS IS OUT OF THE LINE UP! Teams double down on Smith because they do not have to gameplan for #90 anymore, case closed...

pathetic, simply pathetic...

Here is what LZ thinks about your argument: Mario Does Not Make Antonio Smith Better

 

[ObsiWan]

Mario is a good player. I wish he was healthy. I wish we could re-sign him to a long term deal that is cap-friendly and in line with his true worth. I doubt that will happen, though. Since Mario went down with a season-ending injury (AGAIN), the defense has continued to play very well. There were some struggles in the Baltimore game but let's not pretend it was from a lack of a pass rush. The past two weeks, there has been less of a pass rush but I think that is largely a result of the focus on the running game. By the way, Reed does have 2 sacks in those games and the turnovers are piling up.

"AGAIN" ?? I'm sorry, did I miss something? Mario was out for the season before?

Take Schaub out of the lineup against a bad defense and replace him with Leinart. Do you think the offense would be successful and the team would be a playoff-caliber team? I don't.

I certainly do. Our offense is RUN FIRST. As long as our O-line is clicking like they are now and springing Foster and Tate for 100+ yds and multiple TDs each game Schaub is an afterthought. So yeah, I think Leinhart can to hand the ball off every bit as well as Schaub can. And he can roll out just as effectively as Schaub.

Do you think this is a playoff-caliber team without Mario on it? I do. Furthermore, I think the team could be even better using the cap resources Mario would burn up this off-season on other players. I could be wrong but I don't think there is anything crazy about that belief.

Given the strength - weakness actually - of the remainder of our schedule I think we will make the playoffs without Mario. Once we get to the playoffs, will we be as effective without him as we would with him? Hell no. Because "playoff caliber" doesn't mean just making it into the playoffs and going one-and-done. It means - to me anyway - having a realistic shot at competing to be in the Super Bowl. So, by my definition, we're not "playoff caliber" without Mario. You may be happy just to be there.

And given the way his rookie contract was structured - light on the front end with the big "balloon payment" due this year - I don't see Mario trying to take the Texans to the cleaners.

I think some of you guys are projecting what YOU would do if you had Mario's "leverage" (for lack of a better word). And that's what scares you. If you were in his shoes, you'd probably hold out or make ridiculous demands. Mario has no history of doing any of that crap.

 

[dalemurphy]

"AGAIN" ?? I'm sorry, did I miss something? Mario was out for the season before?.

I said, "Mario is out with a season-ending injury, AGAIN"... Two years in a row, he has ended the season on I.R.

Before the I.R. in 2010 and for the second half of 2009, his play had become largely ineffective as a result of his hernia and shoulder problems. Given how the injuries are not the result of any sort of strange or violent play, it appears he may be on the brittle side. As he ages, it seems very likely that the injuries will continue to trend up.

 

[thunderkyss]

Here is what LZ thinks about your argument: Mario Does Not Make Antonio Smith Better

From Lance:

Is the defensive line better off with Mario Williams out there? Of course. Mario is better than Brooks Reed as a player. That, however, is not what is being argued.

He's wrong. Plain & simple. This is exactly what is being argued. In years past, It was Mario or it was nobody putting pressure on the QB. Sure Antonio would flash into the backfield & get close to the QB. But he rarely negatively affected the play; the QB would still complete the pass down field, & he's rarely tackled the runner in the backfield.

This year, I think the secondary has helped Antonio buy that extra second that he's needed. But the Addition of Watt & Barwin have added other players to the pass rush that contribute.

The scheme is keeping pressure on the QB & the run game in check. But this team is better with Mario on the field than off.


From Lance:

Is the defensive line better off with Mario Williams out there? Of course.

& Lance feels the same way.

 

[dalemurphy]

From Lance:


He's wrong. Plain & simple. This is exactly what is being argued. In years past, It was Mario or it was nobody putting pressure on the QB. Sure Antonio would flash into the backfield & get close to the QB. But he rarely negatively affected the play; the QB would still complete the pass down field, & he's rarely tackled the runner in the backfield.

This year, I think the secondary has helped Antonio buy that extra second that he's needed. But the Addition of Watt & Barwin have added other players to the pass rush that contribute.

The scheme is keeping pressure on the QB & the run game in check. But this team is better with Mario on the field than off.


From Lance:


& Lance feels the same way.

Here is the complete article, which I agree with 100%:



No, Mario Williams does not “make Antonio Smith better”

There is a new argument that is surfacing surrounding Mario Williams’ value to the Houston Texans and it is one that I have to attempt to take down before it gets out of control. I realize that I can’t stop it, but I’m damn sure going to try.

“Mario Williams makes Antonio Smith better. Look at what Antonio has done since Mario’s out. Without Mario, Antonio Smith isn’t as good.”

Huh?

If we are to argue the value of Mario Williams to the Houston Texans, then let’s talk about Mario Williams and what he brings to the table. Let’s not measure Mario’s value based on when he isn’t in the game because that, quite frankly, is a waste of Bob McNair’s money. Mario’s play should speak for Mario Williams and Antonio Smith’s play should speak for Smith. Someone will have to explain in football terms how Antonio Smith is so much better with Mario Williams on the field.

Is the defensive line better off with Mario Williams out there? Of course. Mario is better than Brooks Reed as a player. That, however, is not what is being argued. I would like to know why this is the first year that Mario has had this kind of effect on his teammates. He’s played next to Okoye (who is playing better in Chicago than Houston) and has played on the defensive line with Shaun Cody and Antonio Smith for three years. So why wasn’t he having the same impact on those players in those years?

If the argument turns to Wade Phillips presence as defensive coordinator, then the argument about Mario making Antonio better has officially had its legs cut out from under it. Wade Phillips has had a tremendous impact on the defense… much more so than Mario Williams. The Texans defense hasn’t looked all that bad without Mario Williams which is a testament to the fact that Phillips is building and coaching a good defensive unit that isn’t dependent on one, single player.

Trench warfare is all about winning the battle with the guy in front of you. Whether Mario Williams is there or not, Antonio Smith has to battle the player who is in front of him. He will either win or lose. Unless you are arguing that Mario Williams provided confidence to those around him (which would be the first time we’ve heard that since he was drafted), then there really isn’t an argument to be made. Mario had to battle his man when he was in there, Brooks Reed is having to battle his man now and Antonio Smith has to battle his man.

Antonio Smith is the fastest lineman off the snap on the entire team. That quickness and aggressiveness is what gives him the title of best defensive lineman on the team over the last three years. This isn’t tag-team wrestling, this is big guys smashing into each other and the best man on that particular snap wins. To try and point out some type of decline for Antonio Smith since Mario has been out based on sack totals is ludicrous. For one, Smith has never posted high sack totals because of the position he plays. He’s a disruptor and pocket collapser. Go back and watch the Ravens game and see how much pressure Smith put on Flacco all game long. No Mario and yet the defense was able to keep Flacco dancing.

I thought Smith had one of his poorer games of the season last week,but I won’t be surprised to see him give fits to Jacksonville’s line without Mario Williams playing next to him and gazing into his eyes to give him special powers.

The Texans are going to have to decide how much money they want to pay Mario Williams and when that day comes, they have to be comfortable with Williams despite being injured for three straight years. Also, they have to feel comfortable that Williams is the guy who can make Wade Phillips scheme and not the other way around. If Mario is just a system player, then the Texans need to think long and hard about whether or not a faster edge rusher would provide a more consistent pass rusher for much less money than Mario Williams will be asking for coming off of a sting on the IR.

Link

 

[Hervoyel]

For me the answer is "No, I would not trade Mario if it meant..... whatever". I try to sign Mario because I think he was starting to really click in this system and I want to see him in it next year.

 

[Wolf]

uhh hello? uhhh, I scheme, uhhh, to put the players ,uhhh, in the best position to ,uhhh, succeed



just thought I'd throw that out there. hard to compare Mario with any year before.