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Mario gets mad and...

FWIW, from TC's blog last year

In a press teleconference, Colts defensive end Dwight Freeney was asked about Mario Williams being moved all around the line, and he actually gave a real opinion instead of a football guy non-opinion:

"I think that puts him at a disadvantage. I'll come flat out and say that. If you want a guy to get better you have to have him do the same thing over and over and over. Think of it as a concrete layer, to become a good concrete layer you have to lay a lot of concrete. You have to do the same thing. If he does twenty different things, he's going to be average. Sometimes he'll be below average sometimes he might be a little bit better. If you're not doing the same thing every single day it's going to catch up to you. You'll be a good utility player, but at the end of the day you have to be put in a position to excel"
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http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/cate...eney-criticizes-texans-use-of-mario-williams/
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
It's not.

The reason that Weadkside DE's are more often than not seen on the right side is because 90% of the time that is what the strength dictates...

Trust me when I say Mario and Weaver will most likely switch sides if the offense lines up with the TE next to the Lt...
Click to expand...

At least we are trying to talk football, feels refreshing. :texflag:
 
Here's the quotes from the Houston Chronicle / USA Today:

The Texans have Williams working exclusively at right end. Last year, he often practiced at various positions on the line. The solitary focus - and the addition of this year's first-round pick Amobi Okoye - should help Williams improve on his 4 1/2 -sack season.
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Source

Williams is a right defensive end until further notice. No more switching sides, no more snaps at tackle.
Click to expand...

Source

And sorry, xtruroyaltyx, but Mario disagrees with you:

"I don't think moving me necessarily slowed me down," he said, "but it's an adjustment. Left end isn't the same as playing right end".
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Source

Williams is expecting a big year with the knowledge gained from his rookie year and the luxury of playing right defensive end exclusively after moving up and down the line last season.

---------------------

"It's really nice, so now I can just sit here and focus on playing right defense end and just learning things at that position," he said. "You don't want to go backward. The No. 1 thing me and the whole defense have to do is take it to the next level."
Click to expand...

Source
 
Double Barrel said:
Why would Kubiak make a statement that Mario is a RE and will play from one position if it's really a SDE vs. WDE consideration?

I understand the concepts of moving a DE to either side, depending on the formation. But I'm wondering why the HC doesn't make that distinction, which is probably what has confused this subject more than anything else.
Click to expand...


The right side of the defense will be the weakside a majority of the time.

When a head coach starts talking about Weakside vs. strong side he confuses a great piece of the viewing, reading or listening public...

It's much more simplistic and easy to understand "right" vs. "left"....Especially for those that don't know much about the finer points of football...

Many people wouldn't understand weakside vs. strongside verbiage...

But the reason they just say RDE is because the weakside DE will be on the right side about 90% of the time because 90% of the time the TE will be on the offenses right...


:fans:
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
It's not.

The reason that Weadkside DE's are more often than not seen on the right side is because 90% of the time that is what the strength dictates...

Trust me when I say Mario and Weaver will most likely switch sides if the offense lines up with the TE next to the Lt...
Click to expand...

IMO, it more or less depends on the defensive play that's called. I played quickside(didn't like the term weak, lol) DE in HS as well as a couple years in college. I always switched to the cough"weakside" cough.

Having said that, the NFL appears to be totally different. While attending Texans practices I've noticed the DE's and DT's switch at various times. One play that appeared strong rt., the DT's switched and the DE's stayed.

Like I said, I think it has to do with the play/scheme that is called.:)
 
Kaiser Toro said:
So are you saying Mario is a weakside RDE trapped in a strong side LDE's body? :pirate:
Click to expand...

Now this is an iteresting topic...

I personally think Mario has enough burst and pass rushing ability to play weakside/RDE for us....

He's probably better suited for the Strong side, but when you go out at sign an Anthony Weaver you kind of force your hand...

Perfect Scenario would have been for Weaver to not have been signed, and for Babin to prove he's capable of performing...

then you could have put Babin on the weakside, and let Mario play the strong side...

And you're right....it feels great to be talking football...:texflag:
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
The right side of the defense will be the weakside a majority of the time.

When a head coach starts talking about Weakside vs. strong side he confuses a great piece of the viewing, reading or listening public...
Click to expand...

I understand, but that still does not jive with the a/m quotes. Words like "exclusive" and "no more switching sides" seem to indicate a different position.

And I have heard Kubiak talk about strong side vs. weak side in previous interviews, so I'm not sure that he'd suddenly dumb down his football talk for the casual fans for this specific subject.

Obviously, the regular season will be the tell all.
 
Double Barrel said:
Here's the quotes from the Houston Chronicle / USA Today:



Source



Source

And sorry, xtruroyaltyx, but Mario disagrees with you:



Source



Source
Click to expand...

Ok...whatever folks...

In the video Mario is clearly on the Left side of the defense, NOT going against the TE...

I'm just trying to spread some understanding, but never mind me...

*carry on*:cowboy1:
 
HOU-TEX said:
IMO, it more or less depends on the defensive play that's called. I played quickside(didn't like the term weak, lol) DE in HS as well as a couple years in college. I always switched to the cough"weakside" cough.

Having said that, the NFL appears to be totally different. While attending Texans practices I've noticed the DE's and DT's switch at various times. One play that appeared strong rt., the DT's switched and the DE's stayed.

Like I said, I think it has to do with the play/scheme that is called.:)
Click to expand...

From My understanding the DT's don't really switch...

The 3-tech (which is Amobi) is the only one who actually switches...Maddox should just be staying on the center...either shaded to either side or head up...

But you're right...a lot of it has to do with the defensive play call...
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
Ok...whatever folks...

In the video Mario is clearly on the Left side of the defense, NOT going against the TE...

I'm just trying to spread some understanding, but never mind me...

*carry on*:cowboy1:
Click to expand...

It is practice, which you have advised not to get too excited about. ;)

You are doing a good job of sharing your knowledge, man. So please be patient as the information is absorbed.

I'm just curious why the team is using terms that indicate something other than what is being planned for, that's all. It is not an attempt to discredit you or challenge your information, but rather strengthen all of our understanding of the subject and our team. :)
 
Double Barrel said:
I understand, but that still does not jive with the a/m quotes. Words like "exclusive" and "no more switching sides" seem to indicate a different position.

And I have heard Kubiak talk about strong side vs. weak side in previous interviews, so I'm not sure that he'd suddenly dumb down his football talk for the casual fans for this specific subject.

Obviously, the regular season will be the tell all.
Click to expand...


Lets see....

the a/m quotes don't jive with what I'm saying...

guess what else they don't jive with...

the freakin' video of yesterday's practice with Mario on the.....tada....left side....

If Mario is going to be 'exclusively' on the right side, and there isn't going to be 'any more switching' why in gods name is he on the left side in that video...that is the real issue...
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
From My understanding the DT's don't really switch...

The 3-tech (which is Amobi) is the only one who actually switches...Maddox should just be staying on the center...either shaded to either side or head up...

But you're right...a lot of it has to do with the defensive play call...
Click to expand...

You're correct. Amobi switches to opposite 3 tech while Maddox switches to opposite 1 tech (which in reality is a couple feet).:cool:
 
Double Barrel said:
I'm just curious why the team is using terms that indicate something other than what is being planned for, that's all.
Click to expand...

I would say out of all the plays run during our 16 game schedule, the opposing offense will probably line-up with the TE on the left side and no TE on the right no more than 15 times, and I think 15 is a stretch...


It's rare that teams line up with the strength to the left...

That is why they just say RDE....It makes no sense to come behind that and say, well he'll probably be on the left side maybe 15 times next year because the TE will line up on the right...
 
HOU-TEX said:
You're correct. Amobi switches to opposite 3 tech while Maddox switches to opposite 1 tech (which in reality is a couple feet).:cool:
Click to expand...


I've never been to an NFL practice and Saturday will be my first one...

I'm sooooo pumped...

:d:
 
just to jump in...

tradition says the RE is the weakside but thats not necessarily the case because it is dependent on the offense and their formation (hopefully this has already been established). defenses will normally wait until until the offense gets set, but then what if they put a back or TE into motion? you usually wont see a DE move with them (this is where film study comes in) because sometimes it IS for protection and sometimes its to seal the end off. you just never know because the plays are so complex.

one of the reasons you wont see a TE continually in motion is because the offense can change the protection schemes. instead of leaving a tackle by himself or the tackle with a TE against a DE - the tackle and guard can go to work against the DE. on occasion you will see WDE out of the normal RE spot but the majority of the time they are going to spend their time there.

in the NFL, if you want to play defense - you get after the QB. offenses know this! they have created so many different ways to alter protections and deal with DEs.

basically mario is playing at RDE :cool:
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
Ok...whatever folks...

In the video Mario is clearly on the Left side of the defense, NOT going against the TE...

I'm just trying to spread some understanding, but never mind me...

*carry on*:cowboy1:
Click to expand...

You do know Weaver is out right now, right? Wouldn't exactly be shocking if they have Mario at LDE and someone totally unsuited like Babin running RDE in his absence.

The NFL isn't the same as high school and college or even the old NFL. The best CB isn't on the best WR most of the time anymore and on most teams, the DE's aren't swapping sides based on the TE. And yes, the Texans have lined up a single TE left and had Freeney remain at RDE. Maybe swapping consistently would be better, but just like moving the CB's, many NFL coaches don't agree. I won't be surprised to see Mario line up somewhere other than RDE but I bet there isn't a 100% correlation to a single TE lined up left.
 
infantrycak said:
You do know Weaver is out right now, right? Wouldn't exactly be shocking if they have Mario at LDE and someone totally unsuited like Babin running RDE in his absence.

The NFL isn't the same as high school and college or even the old NFL. The best CB isn't on the best WR most of the time anymore and on most teams, the DE's aren't swapping sides based on the TE. And yes, the Texans have lined up a single TE left and had Freeney remain at RDE. Maybe swapping consistently would be better, but just like moving the CB's, many NFL coaches don't agree. I won't be surprised to see Mario line up somewhere other than RDE but I bet there isn't a 100% correlation to a single TE lined up left.
Click to expand...

Never said there was "100% correlation"....you either assumed that or dreamt it up...I've said several times that scheme may dictate otherwise...

I even said "as a general rule" a plethora of times...


I just find it odd that there is no TE in that video and....tada...he's on the side with no TE which happens to be the left side of the defense..

And actually what you're saying makes little sense...If their goal is to confuse Mario less and get him acclimated to playing one position, why on earth is his filling Weavers position instead of getting better at his own?


Why is he wasting reps playing Weavers back-up?

Why all the talk about Mario being a "RDE" exclusively and then clear as day we see him on the left side ?

Hmmmm.....
 
gtexan02 said:
well, for one, I can remember him lining up against a TE when we ran 2 TE sets in that game we won. Obvoiusly not what you were looking for, but its not like Freeney is going to avoid TEs on every play

this is probably a stupid example
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What Xtru is saying is right & what you're saying is right. It's all part of the strategy of the game. There is no significant change in technique from right to left & defenses do wait for the offense to get set most times before they line up accordingly.

But you're also right in that teams can just motion a guy over to help block the weakside guy & everything is equalized so to speak.

It mostly depends on the situation & what the offensive & defensive coaches are trying to do, but i do know that most defensive coaches prefer there #1 pass rusher to come from the backside so the QB can't see him coming which also has bearing on where they line up.

This is probably why Freeney's always on the right side of the DL b/c most Qb's are right handed & it allows for him to always be on the backside of the opposing QB.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I just find it odd that there is no TE in that video and....tada...he's on the side with no TE which happens to be the left side of the defense..
Click to expand...

And you can see there is no TE on the other side?

Why is he wasting reps playing Weavers back-up?
Click to expand...

Maybe to get the best players on the field in the most appropriate spot to get 1st team reps. Mario almost certainly can play LDE better than either Babin or Kalu. Kubiak is big on versatility and being prepared for injuries so a little practice outside of the normal line-up is not shocking.
 
Mr teX said:
But you're also right in that teams can just motion a guy over to help block the weakside guy & everything is equalized so to speak.
Click to expand...

If the defense is not going to line-up according to strength, why motion a guy ?

Why not just break the huddle with the TE lining up on the left ?
 
infantrycak said:
Maybe to get the best players on the field in the most appropriate spot to get 1st team reps. Mario almost certainly can play LDE better than either Babin or Kalu. Kubiak is big on versatility and being prepared for injuries so a little practice outside of the normal line-up is not shocking.
Click to expand...


I figured this would be your response, and again, that really makes little sense...

You are guessing...

I'm saying, yes he is a weakside DE and sometimes he will line up on the left because of strength and you're coming up with hypothetical situations to dispute that...

We have really just started camp....All of this talk about Mario exclusively playing one position and they are already switching him ? Either they are liars or they are blatant liars...or maybe I know a little bit about this game...

Yes Kubiak is big on versatility, but he's not dumb...

That'd be like one of the chargers recievers getting hurt so they put LT at wideout and start turner "to have the best players on the field"...

Or if one of the Chargers O-linemen gets hurt so they move Marcus McNeil to guard..


Mario is a #1 draft pick, 1st overall selection....

Why is he backing Weaver up ?

Why is he practicing filling someone elses position in case Weaver is hurt ?

Where is Weaver's back-up when we need him ?

We shouldn't be moving dominant players (or what we hope to be dominant players) out of the position they play in order to get the best on the field...just let Weaver's back up come in and fill the role because otherwise you could wind up doing more damage than good...
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
If the defense is not going to line-up according to strength, why motion a guy ?

Why not just break the huddle with the TE lining up on the left ?
Click to expand...

The defense does line up according to strength, but most times the D-line is set once the offense gives it's pre snap look. Motioning can mean any number of things to an offense as i'm sure you know. In addition to protection, it can be done just to get a certain look from the D maybe to set something up later in the game.

Imo it's not so much the motion itself, but who's motioning. For instance Westbrook, TO or Gates are going to command more attention in motion than say vonta leach, kevin walter or mark breuner.

This is part of the RB debate today. NO runs lots of motion with him, the question is what are you going to do pay lots of attention to him & make big concessions in your defensive gameplan, just send an LB to cover him & forget about it, or are you going to shade coverage his way with the safeties? Either way you've got a tremendous mismatch or someone somewhere is man up & it makes for easy pickings.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
Never said there was "100% correlation"....you either assumed that or dreamt it up...I've said several times that scheme may dictate otherwise...

I even said "as a general rule" a plethora of times...


I just find it odd that there is no TE in that video and....tada...he's on the side with no TE which happens to be the left side of the defense..

And actually what you're saying makes little sense...If their goal is to confuse Mario less and get him acclimated to playing one position, why on earth is his filling Weavers position instead of getting better at his own?


Why is he wasting reps playing Weavers back-up?

Why all the talk about Mario being a "RDE" exclusively and then clear as day we see him on the left side ?

Hmmmm.....
Click to expand...

I'm not saying you're wrong about anything, but there could be reasons for Mario being on the left side that have nothing to do with how he'll be used during the season.
(Speculating) Maybe they wanted to get someone else reps on the right side, and they gave Mario the option to get some reps on the left side.
Maybe they wanted Winston to get some reps against our best DE...

Who knows? I guess TC is a good time for a positional conspiracy theory???


I could be wrong, but I don't think DEs switch sides on a regular basis depending on which side the TE initially lines up on. If that were the case, an OC could come out in a set that puts your dominant DE on whichever side they wish, and motion the TE to the other side.
DEs don't switch sides as TEs motion, the LB and safety assignments change, and they also may do some shifting.

Plug in your Madden and tell me if you can run Freeny ragged by motioning your TE back and forth a bunch of times...
Madden may not be the best at showing reality in the game, but the players do follow a pretty realistic system of assignments based on offensive formation.
 
Double Barrel said:
Then why would Mario say this?



Source
Click to expand...

Maybe b/c he's used to playing on a certain side, maybe he just means that on 1 side it's alot tougher to rush the passer from. That doesn't mean that your actual technique of rushing the passer changes significantly It could mean anything.

By technique i mean the moves you use to set up,get by & get rid of tackles as well as hand placement etc...
 
There is no difference. That is why most people can write, play golf, dribble a basketball, eat, and pick boogers equally well with either hand.

Doing the techniques with the hands switched, foot positioning switched, etc. makes a difference. It takes some practice to do both sides equally well. Moves become ingrained and second nature if done on the same side all of the time.
 
Runner said:
There is no difference. That is why most people can write, play golf, dribble a basketball, eat, and pick boogers equally well with either hand.

Doing the techniques with the hands switched, foot positioning switched, etc. makes a difference. It takes some practice to do both sides equally well. Moves become ingrained and second nature if done on the same side all of the time.
Click to expand...

$50 bucks says the Smails' kid picks his nose.
 
Runner said:
There is no difference. That is why most people can write, play golf, dribble a basketball, eat, and pick boogers equally well with either hand.
Click to expand...

We're talking professional athletes here, not most people.

No significant difference....generally DE's should be interchangeable like Right & left CB's & tackles & guards. It might take them a little to get used to the position from the other side but the principle & technique is still the same.
 
Mr teX said:
We're talking professional athletes here, not most people.

No significant difference....generally DE's should be interchangeable like Right & left CB's & tackles & guards. It might take them a little to get used to the position from the other side but the principle & technique is still the same.
Click to expand...

I agree to a certain extent...

Winston was just on the radio talking about his move from LT to RT...

He too said it was difficult...

I can vouch for that...

It just feels differnt and awkward...

However it does vary by position and the particular person IMO...

It's harder for tackles to switch sides than it is a gaurd...

It's easier for DT's to switch than it is for DE's...

It's easier for a DE than a CB...

Linebackers seem to switch really easily also...
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
From My understanding the DT's don't really switch...

The 3-tech (which is Amobi) is the only one who actually switches...Maddox should just be staying on the center...either shaded to either side or head up...

But you're right...a lot of it has to do with the defensive play call...
Click to expand...

That isn't necessarily true. The DT's can and do switch their starting positions dependent upon the play called. Even if the TE remains on the RT side, the DT's can be placed in a 4-3 Stack Formation, a 4-3 Over Formation, or a 4-3 Under Formation.

Let us assume the Texans start Weaver at LE/SDE, Williams at RE/WDE, Maddox at DT/NT, and Okoye at DT/3T, Orr at SLB. For the sake of simplicity I am not going to discuss the LB's positions within each of these formations. Now then, a 4-3 Stack Formation would normally place Weaver over the TE's right shoulder, Okoye over the RG's right shoulder, Maddox heads up with the LG, and Williams outside of the LT. To change to 4-3 Over Formation would normally move Maddox to line him up over the laft shoulder of the C and Williams heads up over the LT. Finally, a 4-3 Under Formation would normally place Weaver over the right shoulder of the RT, Maddox over the right shoulder of the C, Okoye over the left shoulder of the LG, and Williams over the left shoulder of the LT.
 
BattleRedToro said:
That isn't necessarily true. The DT's can and do switch their starting positions dependent upon the play called. Even if the TE remains on the RT side, the DT's can be placed in a 4-3 Stack Formation, a 4-3 Over Formation, or a 4-3 Under Formation.

Let us assume the Texans start Weaver at LE/SDE, Williams at RE/WDE, Maddox at DT/NT, and Okoye at DT/3T, Orr at SLB. For the sake of simplicity I am not going to discuss the LB's positions within each of these formations. Now then, a 4-3 Stack Formation would normally place Weaver over the TE's right shoulder, Okoye over the RG's right shoulder, Maddox heads up with the LG, and Williams outside of the LT. To change to 4-3 Over Formation would normally move Maddox to line him up over the laft shoulder of the C and Williams heads up over the LT. Finally, a 4-3 Under Formation would normally place Weaver over the right shoulder of the RT, Maddox over the right shoulder of the C, Okoye over the left shoulder of the LG, and Williams over the left shoulder of the LT.
Click to expand...



I know what an over, stack and under are...Even covered that earlier in the thread:

xtruroyaltyx said:
DT's are a little bit more tricky because depending on whether it's an 'over' or an 'under' call the 1 gap DT could be on the strong side, or the weakside...
Click to expand...

but thanks for the info...


P.S. We were talking about moving from the left to the right...
That still only has Okoye switching sides, which is exactly what I said...
 
BattleRedToro said:
That isn't necessarily true. The DT's can and do switch their starting positions dependent upon the play called. Even if the TE remains on the RT side, the DT's can be placed in a 4-3 Stack Formation, a 4-3 Over Formation, or a 4-3 Under Formation.

Let us assume the Texans start Weaver at LE/SDE, Williams at RE/WDE, Maddox at DT/NT, and Okoye at DT/3T, Orr at SLB. For the sake of simplicity I am not going to discuss the LB's positions within each of these formations. Now then, a 4-3 Stack Formation would normally place Weaver over the TE's right shoulder, Okoye over the RG's right shoulder, Maddox heads up with the LG, and Williams outside of the LT. To change to 4-3 Over Formation would normally move Maddox to line him up over the laft shoulder of the C and Williams heads up over the LT. Finally, a 4-3 Under Formation would normally place Weaver over the right shoulder of the RT, Maddox over the right shoulder of the C, Okoye over the left shoulder of the LG, and Williams over the left shoulder of the LT.
Click to expand...

It's hard for my simple mind to follow your descriptions without graphics (thanks a lot internet...), but it sounds like what you're describing is shifting, which is different from switching. Shifting is where all the DLinemen maintain their position relative to each other, and slide left or right depending on the DLine calls. Switching would be where two DEs, for example swap sides with each other... I think... :)
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I agree to a certain extent...

Winston was just on the radio talking about his move from LT to RT...

He too said it was difficult...

I can vouch for that...

It just feels differnt and awkward...

However it does vary by position and the particular person IMO...

It's harder for tackles to switch sides than it is a gaurd...

It's easier for DT's to switch than it is for DE's...

It's easier for a DE than a CB...

Linebackers seem to switch really easily also...
Click to expand...

Yeah, you're right there is a significant difference between the tackles that you might not ever be able to get used to (speed wise) but for the most part, I think it's moreso the acclimation process for the other positions i named. Once you've gotten used to it, it's an easy switch.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I know what an over, stack and under are...Even covered that earlier in the thread:
Click to expand...

I didn't see that you covered it earlier.






xtruroyaltyx said:
P.S. We were talking about moving from the left to the right...
That still only has Okoye switching sides, which is exactly what I said...
Click to expand...

Actually this is what you said:

xtruroyaltyx said:
From My understanding the DT's don't really switch...

The 3-tech (which is Amobi) is the only one who actually switches...Maddox should just be staying on the center...either shaded to either side or head up...
But you're right...a lot of it has to do with the defensive play call...
Click to expand...

And in a 4-3 Stack Formation, Maddox would be head up over the LG, not the C. There is a difference between shading a C and lining head up over the LG.
 
Did people forget the previous posts of this topic? We have evidence from a LOT of professional DEs saying right and left isn't the same.

Im sorry, but I just fail to believe that all DEs are really "strong side weak side." If they were, they'd refer to themselves as that. I think all DEs are either "right side left side." Thats why them call themselves that. Football players don't care about dumbing down their verbiage, they call it like its called in practice
 
BattleRedToro said:
And in a 4-3 Stack Formation, Maddox would be head up over the LG, not the C. There is a difference between shading a C and lining head up over the LG.
Click to expand...

Thanks for picking that nit...

Couldn't quite get it myself...
 
It's always been taught to me from JR high ball up to HS that ya gotta be pissed off to play this game. I've been coaching LL football here in Pasadena for 14 yrs. now using this same philosiphy & it seems to work. I've manufactured more head hunters than a few, been to the playoffs 10Xs, the SuperBowl 5Xs, & won it all 3Xs. Now I realize were talkin about 8-12 year olds vs 21- 30 something men & I'm sure somewhere down that road you've gotta learn to control that anger so its not detrimental to your team BUT a certian amount of anger goes a long way IMHMFO.
 
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