Marcus Spears on 610

[jmerog]

there is a clip on NFL.com right now about Aikman, Legends of the Game: Troy Aikman.

I would check it out and see how he is ripping into his team mates. This would be an example of what Carr is suspected of lacking and needing. This would be the reason he is said to be needing gunpowder in his wheaties.

Once again- He said that about Wand- not Carr. I'm not defending, simply reporting. he talked as much about wand as Carr. He was asked what he thaought about his play and if he had the skills to play LT and he talked about how wand had the size and skills but needed more intensity (the gunpowder comment)

 

[Wolf]

Having said all that, how can you blame the offensive line? They had the same coaching as Carr.

Simple, the overall talent on the offensive line is suspect and everyone agrees on that point.

But, for some reason the same analysis seems to escape Carr.

After reading all that, McNair seems to be completely to blame. Which is probably the case.

same analogy can be brought in on the defense.

no defensive pass rush..worse your secondary looks
no pass blocking..worse your QB looks.

all goes hand in hand

 

[jmerog]

I am not arguing carr's (pick an area). I am simply reporting accuratly what was said.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

I heard the Spears interview. Comments made concerning Carr have thus far been exhausted here. So I'll take another direction..............Rather than only reading the description in some of the posts of what he said, listening to his voice and mannerisms of presentation, I got the distinct feeling that he was squirming and definitely feeling uncomfortable in trying to find genuinely encouraging remarks concerning the promise shown by Wand as the LT future of the Texans.........And I'm one that is pulling for Wand on our team, but I couldn't help from coming away from the interview somewhat uncomfortable myself.

 

[jmerog]

I am at a loss for speech as there are so many things in your post that are just ill-conceived, strangely deduced and just plain wrong.
.

I had the same reaction

Geez, how did I allow myself to get dragged into a thread that shouldn't have turned into yet another Carrfest.

It was not intended to become what it has. Sorry i even started it.

 

[jmerog]

I heard the Spears interview. Comments made concerning Carr have thus far been exhausted here. So I'll take another direction..............Rather than only reading the description in some of the posts of what he said, listening to his voice and mannerisms of presentation, I got the distinct feeling that he was squirming and definitely feeling uncomfortable in trying to find genuinely encouraging remarks concerning the promise shown by Wand as the LT future of the Texans.........And I'm one that is pulling for Wand on our team, but I couldn't help from coming away from the interview somewhat uncomfortable myself.

Yes, I got that same impression. He didn't seem real high on him. I hope he is wrong but i am a little concerned. I think Kubes will put the best guy there, though. I hope it happens by the first game.

 

[Lucky]

...I got the distinct feeling that he was squirming and definitely feeling uncomfortable in trying to find genuinely encouraging remarks concerning the promise shown by Wand as the LT future of the Texans.........And I'm one that is pulling for Wand on our team, but I couldn't help from coming away from the interview somewhat uncomfortable myself.

I've been a card carrying Wand basher since '04. But I'll admit that Seth couldn't have received worse coaching than what he got with the Texans. Until now, the Texans have not had a legit NFL offensive line coach. I've asked Carr bashers to give Kubiak a chance to work with David. I'll do the same and hope Sherman can turn around what was once a promising talent at offensive tackle.

Physically, Wand has the talent. The measurables have always been there. His combine scores were similar to Robert Gallery, who went #2 in the draft in '04. But Seth was from a Division II school, and was way over his head when the Texans threw him in at LT in '04. He was thinking and not playing. That can get your QB killed, and it almost did on a number of occasions. But, Wand has been in the league 3 years and finally has a coach that can show him the way. I don't think Kubiak would put Wand at LT if he didn't believe he could do the job. I see Seth giving at least a workman like performance at LT this season.

 

[Texans_Chick]

Having said all that, how can you blame the offensive line? They had the same coaching as Carr.

Simple, the overall talent on the offensive line is suspect and everyone agrees on that point.

But, for some reason the same analysis seems to escape Carr.

After reading all that, McNair seems to be completely to blame. Which is probably the case.

 

[Texans_Chick]

Yes, I got that same impression. He didn't seem real high on him. I hope he is wrong but i am a little concerned. I think Kubes will put the best guy there, though. I hope it happens by the first game.

He was mixed in his assessment. Admitted he hadn't seen him, and hadn't seen him play recently. Said he liked the guy. He mentioned his physical gifts, but also said that it seemed back then like he need a little more gunpowder in his food because left tackles need a mean streak.

He was put in a weird situation by the questioning because a couple of years ago he was an experienced guy was competing against a raw guy with talents. And now he is out of the league and not around the team so he seemed to feel comfortable talking from a point forward basis.

I'm not sure how much you really want to read into this stuff.

 

[infantrycak]

Having said all that, how can you blame the offensive line? They had the same coaching as Carr.

Yeah, they did have the same coaching as Carr and let's look at what is happening. The OL as a unit underperformed. That can be individual inability, bad coaching or both. It appears the new OL will be staffed at least to start with 4 Texans available to the old coaching staff--Wand, McKinney, Pitts & Wiegert. Seems the new coaching staff thinks most of the problem with the OL was the old coaching staff as well. See how that works--QB and OL underperformed last year--both could have been a result of personnel and/or coaching--the new coaching staff has decided in both cases the majority of underperformance was due to coaching.

 

[hollywood_texan]

 

[infantrycak]

I heard the Spears interview. Comments made concerning Carr have thus far been exhausted here. So I'll take another direction..............Rather than only reading the description in some of the posts of what he said, listening to his voice and mannerisms of presentation, I got the distinct feeling that he was squirming and definitely feeling uncomfortable in trying to find genuinely encouraging remarks concerning the promise shown by Wand as the LT future of the Texans.........And I'm one that is pulling for Wand on our team, but I couldn't help from coming away from the interview somewhat uncomfortable myself.

I got the same impression about Wand--basically IMO he seemed to think Wand may have plenty of ability but just doesn't have the fire for the position. I'd keep in mind that Spears played with Wand 2 years ago and under a now departed staff. Mike Sherman has a pretty good track record with OLmen vs. say "he whose name will not be mentioned because he thought starting Victor Riley at LT was a good idea."

 

[hollywood_texan]

Yeah, they did have the same coaching as Carr and let's look at what is happening. The OL as a unit underperformed. That can be individual inability, bad coaching or both. It appears the new OL will be staffed at least to start with 4 Texans available to the old coaching staff--Wand, McKinney, Pitts & Wiegert. Seems the new coaching staff thinks most of the problem with the OL was the old coaching staff as well. See how that works--QB and OL underperformed last year--both could have been a result of personnel and/or coaching--the new coaching staff has decided in both cases the majority of underperformance was due to coaching.

There could be bigger changes on the offensive line due to two picks taken in the third round.

I hear ya thought.

I have said regularly that I believe Carr has the physical abilities to get the job done. Never in all the games I have been to, watched, or listened though, have I ever got the feeling Carr was being held back.

IMO, he is lacking that intangible to get it done because he has yet to show any of that in my estimation.

Maybe a new system and coaching staff will bring that to light as well as victories.

 

[infantrycak]

Never in all the games I have been to, watched, or listened though, have I ever got the feeling Carr was being held back.

Wow, don't see how you could watch last year and not say the entire offense was being held back.

 

[hollywood_texan]

Wow, don't see how you could watch last year and not say the entire offense was being held back.

Have you ever watched a game, any sport and at level, and see you see one player performing well on a team despite the rest of the team? You ask yourself, what if this person had more help, what could they do?

I have never come to that conclusion or thought of that when it comes to Carr.

I agree with you, the play calling and overall schemes were severly lacking last year. It was ridiculous actually.

But again, I never watched Carr's performance and thought, wait a minute, this guy is being held back. I more or less viewed him similar to the entire problem.

 

[Wolf]

I agree with you, the play calling and overall schemes were severly lacking last year. It was ridiculous actually.

But again, I never watched Carr's performance and thought, wait a minute, this guy is being held back. I more or less viewed him similar to the entire problem.

oxymoron anyone?

 

[Texans_Chick]

 

[hollywood_texan]

oxymoron anyone?

Just because the play calling and overall schemes were severly lacking last year doesn't mean Carr is or isn't a good quarterback.

The two are not connected, they are independent evaluations.

 

[hollywood_texan]

 

[Runner]

No one, and I mean no one, gets to be successful in life at that stage by just being a good person. That is how the world works, like it or not.

Of all the absurdities on this thread, this is the one I'll address. There is nothing that says a player can't be a good person and still succeed. It happens all the time. How can I say this? Because a very high percentage of players on every team are good people. Probably 80-90% of them. Every team that has won the Super Bowl has had a majority of "good people" on their squads. Just because the press and fawning fans focus on the antics of jackasses doesn't mean the majority of players are like that.

I can give a very clear example of this by shifting sports - check out the history of the Spurs and Trailblazers of the NBA in the past 10 years.

 

[Wolf]

Just because the play calling and overall schemes were severly lacking last year doesn't mean Carr is or isn't a good quarterback.

The two are not connected, they are independent evaluations.

are they now?


that is like saying Priest homes staying in Baltimore would have been the same back as he was in KC

 

[Wolf]

I am going to end the Carr debate.(which we won't know until the season starts)


Carr can make all the throws possible see the first video on this thread
http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=24022

Now as far as NFL wise.. Kubiak has to get Carr's head straight .. Make the right reads and make them faster.. (Moulds,Joppru, and name escapes me at TE from Denver..should help spread the field..) Kubiak has to get David to trust his OL and stop watching the rush and look downfield.... He does this and David should be a solid NFL QB.. maybe never probowl, but solid

 

[Runner]

I've been a card carrying Wand basher since '04. But I'll admit that Seth couldn't have received worse coaching than what he got with the Texans. Until now, the Texans have not had a legit NFL offensive line coach. I've asked Carr bashers to give Kubiak a chance to work with David. I'll do the same and hope Sherman can turn around what was once a promising talent at offensive tackle.

Physically, Wand has the talent. The measurables have always been there. His combine scores were similar to Robert Gallery, who went #2 in the draft in '04. But Seth was from a Division II school, and was way over his head when the Texans threw him in at LT in '04. He was thinking and not playing. That can get your QB killed, and it almost did on a number of occasions. But, Wand has been in the league 3 years and finally has a coach that can show him the way. I don't think Kubiak would put Wand at LT if he didn't believe he could do the job. I see Seth giving at least a workman like performance at LT this season.

Well said.

I think the bad o-line coaching has been fixed. It is now up to the players.

 

[TwinSisters]

Once again- He said that about Wand- not Carr. I'm not defending, simply reporting. he talked as much about wand as Carr. He was asked what he thaought about his play and if he had the skills to play LT and he talked about how wand had the size and skills but needed more intensity (the gunpowder comment)

Wand? What? Crap I got tricked... We don't any more threads about Wand. We need more about Carr. So let's just pretend it is about Carr. It's a house rule... no matter what little amount dirt comes out, we must make it into mounds of mountains about Carr. That's the rules. Do you want to break the rules and not be part of the herd? Or do you want to run with the rest of the bullsss?

Very good. Carry on now then...

EDIT:

He pointed out that [David] kept getting up and didn't throw his teammates under the bus in the media as some QB's have.

went back and looked at the original copy. I am still good and the character issue is still a valid argument with Aikman ( even without the gunpowder link ). Granted Aikman is not going to reporters and tossing the weight around, but he calls them out when they are failing and not being a wuss or diplomat about it. Manning, Elway, Esiason, Bradshaw all have called out their team and coaches in the press before. THIS is NOT to say David Carr should do as other great Quarterbacks do, this is only to say that you can do it and still be a great player. It can be and has been done in the past.

EDIT AGAIN: Manning just the team.

 

[TexanFan881]

I am going to end the Carr debate.(which we won't know until the season starts)


Carr can make all the throws possible see the first video on this thread
http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=24022

Could you believe that was 4 years ago? In his rookie season? He looks good in that and I'm guessing he got better since then.

 

[TwinSisters]

Of all the absurdities on this thread, this is the one I'll address. There is nothing that says a player can't be a good person and still succeed. It happens all the time. How can I say this? Because a very high percentage of players on every team are good people. Probably 80-90% of them.

and the inverse is also true. You don't have to be a good person to succeed. Ty Cobb, Barry Bonds, Michael Irvin, Steve Spurrier, Barry Switzer, George Allen, etc.

 

[infantrycak]

But again, I never watched Carr's performance and thought, wait a minute, this guy is being held back. I more or less viewed him similar to the entire problem.

Well since I posted this the other day I will stick with my opinion that he was being held back:

My theory is Capers and co. put the screws to what Carr was supposed to consider "open" after his 3 INT's at Indy in '04. Before that Carr was taking shots into double coverage to AJ and to Gaffney as 2nd option (19 passes total in that game and the 3 preceding, 2 total in the 4 games after) and Armstrong (11 Indy and 3 before, 3 in the 4 games after). Over that time period AJ got 22 passes in Indy and the 3 before (other WR's 38 total--that would be 63% to the other WR's--pretty good job of never looking at them) and 20 in the 4 games after (other WR's 10 total). AJ still got his passes--the other WR's dropped out of the game. Lest anyone think the D's got tougher--actually the opposite is true--the average passing D ranking for Indy and the 3 preceding games was 19th--the average passing D ranking for the 4 after was 23rd. Seems unlikely IMO that Carr woke up and decided not to throw to other WR's all on his own and lost his ability suddenly to read other WR's.

Doesn't mean Carr doesn't also have things to improve on--he absolutely does.

 

[Hardcore Texan]

I can't believe I read this much of this thread, it is like the sun, you know you shouldn't stare at it but you just can't help it.

I will say it again for the umpteenth time, Unless you are a better evaluator of Talent than Gary Kubiak, especially at the QB position, then I say sit back and trust our new captain. Give him a chance to prove himself. The past is the past, this is a new year, everyone gets a clean slate. people shouldn't negatively criticize a work in progress. Give them a chance to put a product on the field. At least wait until after the first game of the season.......

BTW.. I think Carr is going to have a GREAT season!

 

[bayoudreamn]

I am going to interchange some words from the quote above,

How many head coaches these days who are struggling under the same conditions as Capers would have had the patience and professionalism to handle it the way Capers did.

How fart did Capers get that?

It's about W's and performing, that's it and that's that. Why is it that Terrell Owens can still play in the NFL? The guy is a complete jerk and I am sure no one will argue that point.

I am tired of all this Carr crap, particularly if he is a nice guy, family man, or whatever. He can either win games or not. There are no excuses in football. He isn't paid millions to be a good or nice guy.

No ONE wins games. This isn't a one player sport. That argument is sooooo tired.....give it a rest!

 

[bayoudreamn]

Here is the deal with all the Carr supporters, they believe Carr hasn't performed because everyone else around him didn't. Therefore, Carr is a good quarterback and should keep his job. No one will argue the talent issue on the offensive line and quality receivers outside of AJ, but it is possible Carr was more of the problem than just being held back.

For example, here is quote about McNair learning the new Ravens system,

"A confused quarterback is usually confronted with a barrage of blitzes. If he's confused about protections, that's when he's going to get whacked," Fassel said.

Apply this quote to Carr's sack problems and think about it. Carr could have really contributed more to the sack problem, basically overwhelming an already talent thin line.

Here is Kubiak's own words on Carr following the conclusion of their mini camp.

"I think he's the most improved player from this offseason," Kubiak said. "From the day we walked out here until today, I really thought he was the most improved. Yet he still has a long way to go.

"The key to David, like any other player — and I've already spent a ton of time with him — David's got to come back and pick up right where he left off. We can't go back and work on things that we were trying to clean up. Nobody's worked harder."

Not exactly a ringing order of endorsement for our 4-year QB veteren. Kind of sounds like he may be fighting for his job early in the season if he doesn't start off well.

So, Texans_Chick, from your post, I take that we basically have a rookie quarterback in Carr.

Judging from your comments, it looks like you need to concentrate on reading the lines before you try to read between them.

 

[bayoudreamn]

combination of both.. Capers philosophy is great defense, run the ball (I do like that combination BTW) yet our defense couldn't sack anyone and couldn't protect the Qb on offense.. that hurts the team.. why have an offensive philosophy like that when you have patchwork OL and you draft a QB #1 overall and a WR #3 overall.. when you are trying to be run 1st offense. putting a square peg in a round hole IMO

and yes we held Carr back IMO and with the inadequate protection Carr has bad habits and happy feet. He is still looking at the rush instead of looking downfield .. Also game hasn't slowed down for him yet.

Wolf.....I agree with you!......pretty much.......I think I'm going to go into shock!

 

[nunusguy]

Seth Wand played his college ball in Maryville, Mo. at NorthWest Missouri State. A small college to be sure, the level of competition he saw while playing there was probably inferior to what he would have seen had he played against some of the higher echelon teams in High School here in Houston or in the DFW area. Now we know they play tremendous scholastic
football in Texas, but it doesn't give you the necessary experience you need
to play in the NFL as the colleges of the SEC, Big 10, Big 12, etc do.
So with that kind of very minimal background and no real coaching yet in his career, Wand spent one year in the NFL to get aclamated and then a year later started at LT going against the likes of Dwight Feeney twice in 2004.

 

[bayoudreamn]

Having said all that, how can you blame the offensive line? They had the same coaching as Carr.

Simple, the overall talent on the offensive line is suspect and everyone agrees on that point.

But, for some reason the same analysis seems to escape Carr.

After reading all that, McNair seems to be completely to blame. Which is probably the case.

twisted

 

[bayoudreamn]

Yes, I got that same impression. He didn't seem real high on him. I hope he is wrong but i am a little concerned. I think Kubes will put the best guy there, though. I hope it happens by the first game.

Same feeling.....has it before though.....and I like Wand. Not because he's a nice guy but I think he's a team player and he leaves it all on the field. That said, he may not have what it takes.....or he may just be without the proper instruction in the past. I think we can all agree that the teachers are in the school, now.

Good Luck, SW

 

[bayoudreamn]

He was mixed in his assessment. Admitted he hadn't seen him, and hadn't seen him play recently. Said he liked the guy. He mentioned his physical gifts, but also said that it seemed back then like he need a little more gunpowder in his food because left tackles need a mean streak.

He was put in a weird situation by the questioning because a couple of years ago he was an experienced guy was competing against a raw guy with talents. And now he is out of the league and not around the team so he seemed to feel comfortable talking from a point forward basis.

I'm not sure how much you really want to read into this stuff.

Willie Roaf is a nice guy. I don't think you have to have a mean streak to play the position. It may be that alot of players do, but it's not necessarily required. Willie's been to the ProBowl repeatedly and is considered....or was....one of the best in the league. We don't have to believe everything Spears said.

 

[Runner]

and the inverse is also true. You don't have to be a good person to succeed. Ty Cobb, Barry Bonds, Michael Irvin, Steve Spurrier, Barry Switzer, George Allen, etc.

Agreed. I was just addressing the original claim.

 

[Hulk75]

Willie Roaf is a nice guy. I don't think you have to have a mean streak to play the position. It may be that alot of players do, but it's not necessarily required. Willie's been to the ProBowl repeatedly and is considered....or was....one of the best in the league. We don't have to believe everything Spears said.

True but you never as a X-Dlineman do you let people talk to you how they want or shuve you around, I dont care what your back ground is, nobody is a door mat...............John Runyan-Nices guy you could ever meet off the field, on the football field he has got a switch (a controlled one though), I saw him get Rodney Harrison on the ground and as he was getting up he put a forearm in his neck and never said a word............You have to play rough a little bit or guys will not respect you, ON the otherside of the ball.

 

[El Tejano]

All I know is that when Carr was allowed to handle the offense we were chucking 50 yard bombs, going up by 21, and then the coaches took over.

 

[nunusguy]

Willie Roaf is a nice guy. I don't think you have to have a mean streak to play the position. It may be that alot of players do, but it's not necessarily required. Willie's been to the ProBowl repeatedly and is considered....or was....one of the best in the league. We don't have to believe everything Spears said.

I dunno, but you may know Roaf personally ? But you gotta understand that
many, mnay guys who play football, certainly those good enough to play in the NFL, are kinda bi-polar in a sense. They may be mild mannered, even meak on their own time, but when they get on the field Mr. Hyde surfaces,
or had better if they are playing in the NFL, especially on the LOS. Its a
war in the pits as they say.

 

[hollywood_texan]

No one, and I mean no one, gets to be successful in life at that stage by just being a good person. That is how the world works, like it or not.

Of all the absurdities on this thread, this is the one I'll address. There is nothing that says a player can't be a good person and still succeed.

My words do not say that if you are a good person you will not be successful.

Your right they can be both.

 

[hollywood_texan]

twisted

Thank you, I take that as a compliment.

 

[jerek]

This can't possibly be another David Carr thread:

Spans more than four pages in less than a day's time. Check.
Wonger_needs_food has posted. Check.
Spirited discussion of the merits of previous offensive lines, system, coaches, management, refreshments vendors, and beer guy, and Carr's role in their systematic failure. Check.

Looks like it is a Davey Carr thread after all.

Rumor mill has it that Wand will be playing the part of the Cowardly Lion in this year's Wizard of Oz production. He is a natural fit for the part.

 

[Texans_Chick]

This can't possibly be another David Carr thread:

Spans more than four pages in less than a day's time. Check.
Wonger_needs_food has posted. Check.
Spirited discussion of the merits of previous offensive lines, system, coaches, management, refreshments vendors, and beer guy, and Carr's role in their systematic failure. Check.

Looks like it is a Davey Carr thread after all.

Rumor mill has it that Wand will be playing the part of the Cowardly Lion in this year's Wizard of Oz production. He is a natural fit for the part.

Yet another thing someone would never say to a player's face. Check

 

[jerek]

Yet another thing someone would never say to a player's face. Check

Ouch. Forgive me if I call it like I see it, or if my poor attempt at humor doesn't sit well with you. I wouldn't necessarily call any one a coward to their face (not that I would be afraid to say that to Wand or anyone else, if that is what you are implying, rather I would typically abstain out of basic courtesy) but that is the nature of pro sports: we the fans call it like we see it. Frankly TC I like your writing but if there is one problem I have with any of it, it's that you tend to write only in rosy view and refuse to be critical.

I simply don't share your belief that Wand is a redeemable player. He has been getting abused throughout camp and I don't see that changing any time soon. I'll call a spade a spade. I don't know the guy off the field, and surely it may only be his football play that is fundamentally lacking and not his overall character, but his play onfield speaks for itself.

 

[hollywood_texan]

Ouch. Forgive me if I call it like I see it, or if my poor attempt at humor doesn't sit well with you. I wouldn't necessarily call any one a coward to their face (not that I would be afraid to say that to Wand or anyone else, if that is what you are implying, rather I would typically abstain out of basic courtesy) but that is the nature of pro sports: we the fans call it like we see it. Frankly TC I like your writing but if there is one problem I have with any of it, it's that you tend to write only in rosy view and refuse to be critical.

I simply don't share your belief that Wand is a redeemable player. He has been getting abused throughout camp and I don't see that changing any time soon. I'll call a spade a spade. I don't know the guy off the field, and surely it may only be his football play that is fundamentally lacking and not his overall character, but his play onfield speaks for itself.

Nice post, particularly the bolded and underlined part.

 

[jerek]

Nice post, particularly the bolded and underlined part.

Haha. Difference being here I like Carr. You can't deny the guy's heart. IMO that is what separates him from a guy like Wand. At least on the football field, Wand is a guy with reasonable physical tools who is dominated time and time again because he appears to lack the heart. And yes, I realize our O-line and our system sucked from top to bottom last year, but there are guys like Chester Pitts who looked really good at times and decent most of the time. Wand has yet to put up whatsoever in my eyes. I watched him a few days at camp this year and geez, I can't help but think he is either incredibly slow of wit right now or he just can't really be bothered.

The cowardly lion bit was a low shot I admit, but I myself routinely employ a self-deprecating humor and I and my closest friends consistently use it all the time and at each other, and no feelings are hurt. Just the nature of how we talk. More than that I tend to be blunt and say what I perceive, which if you agree with me then you will tend to respect that (though it can be misused, no question) and if you don't well then you will take exception to it. So I grant that outside of that context, it may seem uncalled for, and truly, I apologize if that is offensive. But honestly, I will call it here and now, Wand is not going to make it in this league. I hope to high heaven that I am wrong about that -- he's a Texan now and as such I will root for his success in the face of what my mind cannot help but believe -- but I ain't holding my breath.

 

[hollywood_texan]

Haha. Difference being here I like Carr. You can't deny the guy's heart. IMO that is what separates him from a guy like Wand. At least on the football field, Wand is a guy with reasonable physical tools who is dominated time and time again because he appears to lack the heart. And yes, I realize our O-line and our system sucked from top to bottom last year, but there are guys like Chester Pitts who looked really good at times and decent most of the time. Wand has yet to put up whatsoever in my eyes. I watched him a few days at camp this year and geez, I can't help but think he is either incredibly slow of wit right now or he just can't really be bothered.

The cowardly lion bit was a low shot I admit, but I myself routinely employ a self-deprecating humor and I and my closest friends consistently use it all the time and at each other, and no feelings are hurt. Just the nature of how we talk. More than that I tend to be blunt and say what I perceive, which if you agree with me then you will tend to respect that (though it can be misused, no question) and if you don't well then you will take exception to it. So I grant that outside of that context, it may seem uncalled for, and truly, I apologize if that is offensive. But honestly, I will call it here and now, Wand is not going to make it in this league. I hope to high heaven that I am wrong about that -- he's a Texan now and as such I will root for his success in the face of what my mind cannot help but believe -- but I ain't holding my breath.

First, from what I have read Carr is probably a great person and dedicated to his family, which I think is way more important than any contributions on the football field.

Second, I have said time and again, IMO Carr has the physical tools.

I find it interesting that your discussion of Wand and opinion is very similar to mine of Carr.

That's all.

As for your low blow, I don't think it was. This type of attention and dedication by NFL fans is what make it a multi-billion dollar industry. It's like a movie star getting upset that a paparazzi takes pictures of them, it goes along with the territory.

 

[BigTimeTexanFan]

I believe self-esteem and confidence in yourself are VERY important to an individual's success. So many players on this team were thrown into the fire too early and expected to learn on the go. I don't think that is the way it should be done because it is detrimental to the development of the players. Look at Carr, he hasn't known success in his entire career. All he has ever known is losing and mistakes. Same thing goes for Wand, he was thrown in there and ripped apart. If you were tossed in the fire and then all you ever heard was how poorly you are performing and what terrible mistakes you are making, what would that do to you??? In sports as in the business world, people need to be groomed into their roles. Only very rarely does a person start off in the mix and succeed.

 

[jerek]

First, from what I have read Carr is probably a great person and dedicated to his family, which I think is way more important than any contributions on the football field.

Second, I have said time and again, IMO Carr has the physical tools.

I find it interesting that your discussion of Wand and opinion is very similar to mine of Carr.

That's all.

As for your low blow, I don't think it was. This type of attention and dedication by NFL fans is what make it a multi-billion dollar industry. It's like a movie star getting upset that a paparazzi takes pictures of them, it goes along with the territory.

For sure. We can all watch the same football games and draw different conclusions on the why of different things that occur. We can agree to disagree and it's all good in my book.

I dunno about the low shot bit. On the one hand I agree with TC in that the players are just people too and it's easy to write something about a guy that you wouldn't say to their face, as rules of basic courtesy seem to evaporate across anonymous or information mediums. It always cracks me up to see some of the things people will say online but when they meet me in person it's a whole different ball game, and hey, I'm guilty of that myself too. I've met and gotten to hang with a lot of the Texans and a lot of them are absolutely great people, whether or not I like their play. A few are pricks and I'd not hold back on telling them so, again regardless of whether or not I like their play. On the other hand sport is sport and yes, it does come with the territory, and no, I sincerely doubt if Wand cares if I personally think he plays without heart. I haven't met the guy so I don't know a thing about him past what I see at camp.

Either way by default I am blunt and if I don't watch myself, my thought can tend to come out in an abrasive manner, so I don't knock a person's right to call me on it. I'll not engage a dispute over an idle comment, so I thought it better to just clear the air regardless.

 

[Runner]

Frankly TC I like your writing but if there is one problem I have with any of it, it's that you tend to write only in rosy view and refuse to be critical.

I simply don't share your belief that Wand is a redeemable player. He has been getting abused throughout camp and I don't see that changing any time soon. I'll call a spade a spade. I don't know the guy off the field, and surely it may only be his football play that is fundamentally lacking and not his overall character, but his play onfield speaks for itself.

After you are done calling Wand a coward, make sure you stop by and tell Shanahan, Calhoun, and Kubiak that they are dolts when it comes to judging football talent and evaluating a player's performance in camp. For proof, you can always tell them that Joe Pendry agrees with you.

Amateurs who are evaluating players in camp from their occasional sideline view or hearsay may actually be missing what is going on. Let me give you an example.

Theoretically, say the o-line coach tells Wand to slow down and concentrate on footwork and balance and don't worry too much about the rusher - the goal is too learn how to do things right, then go full speed later in the real training camp once his fundamentals are sound. So as Wand is doing that, Peek lines up at DE, goes full speed and does his one move - the speed rush - and makes Wand look silly. Of course Wand looks bad to the casual observer, while at the same time Shanahan is saying, "Good job, Seth. That is exactly how I want your feet to move every time. Keep it up".

In this case Wand is improving and Peek isn't, because he refuses to refine or broaden his technique. Peek sure looked good in practice with no pads though!

I don't know if examples like these will ever change anyone's mind about any player - I think most posters are too smart to need to consider other viewpoints, even if our ignorant coaching staff does not share their beliefs.

I'm with Texans Chick on this one.

p.s. I'm also sorry if no one appreciates my "humor".