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Manziel

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Lord Bills said:
4.63 and 4.56.

Very good numbers. He's in the kapernick wilson range which means his speed and athleticism are real and he can out run NFL defenses.

Looking at game film vs the best competition college football had to offer should have been enough for people but i digress....

I hope bob mcnair pulls rank on obrien and personally orders the selection of manziel. This franchise needs to be saved from cocky know it all GMs and head coaches.
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Don't worry LB, although it will never come out Manziel will be the pick courtesy of Uncle BoB. Gotta keep those Ags spending that $$$$$.
 
Hahaha

ahesahej.jpg
 
bah007 said:
Guys like Al Davis and Jerry Jones were great for their respective franchises at the beginning. But then the game moved passed them and they had too much ego to bring in people smarter than they were to come in and make decisions.

There is nothing wrong with an owner who wants to be involved. But they have to understand where the line is. If you hire a guy to make decisions you can't step on his toes. There's a difference between blind trust and hiring people who you believe are up to the job and letting them make decisions. If they make bad decisions then you replace them.

I'm sure Kraft makes his opinions known. But do you think he overrules the people that he has hired to make those calls if they disagree?
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There were vmoves that could've been made that I'm sure BoB nixed during the Kubiak era. Like maybe signing Manning or drafting Burfict/Rodgers type players.

BoB is the kind of manager that is very hard to deal with. He says you've got full control but you try to draft a player like Lyerla late in this yrs draft and BoB will shoot it down in a heartbeat.
 
I don't think there was a question as to whether Johnny could outrun guys on the first and second level. The real question is how many times can he run it and still be able to answer the bell. I don't think anyone thinks Manziel can play like he did in college and expect to stay upright. How much does he have to dial it back to stay healthy and how much will that change his in pocket effectiveness.
 
jradMIT said:
I don't think there was a question as to whether Johnny could outrun guys on the first and second level. The real question is how many times can he run it and still be able to answer the bell. I don't think anyone thinks Manziel can play like he did in college and expect to stay upright. How much does he have to dial it back to stay healthy and how much will that change his in pocket effectiveness.
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No one, including Johnny, expects him to play the same game as he did in college. Part of his workout regime is to adapt to playing under center, his footwork on 3, 5 and 7 step drops and his technique for throwing from a pocket. By all reports he pretty much has dedicated himself to becoming an effective NFL QB. Any organization who drafts Manziel would be smart to mold their offense around him and not force him into something he is not. One player who he is being compared to is Fran Tarkington, for those of you old enough to know of this Viking great.
 
jradMIT said:
I don't think there was a question as to whether Johnny could outrun guys on the first and second level. The real question is how many times can he run it and still be able to answer the bell. I don't think anyone thinks Manziel can play like he did in college and expect to stay upright. How much does he have to dial it back to stay healthy and how much will that change his in pocket effectiveness.
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I worry about the opposite. Not particularly concerned about downfield. He's fast enough to still make some of those plays. QBs get giant tracts of field to play with. As long as he isn't stupid he'll learn to slide. What concerns me is his poor pocket presence resulting in him getting obliterated.
 
Number19 said:
No one, including Johnny, expects him to play the same game as he did in college. Part of his workout regime is to adapt to playing under center, his footwork on 3, 5 and 7 step drops and his technique for throwing from a pocket. By all reports he pretty much has dedicated himself to becoming an effective NFL QB. Any organization who drafts Manziel would be smart to mold their offense around him and not force him into something he is not. One player who he is being compared to is Fran Tarkington, for those of you old enough to know of this Viking great.
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Yeah I have heard the Tarkington comparison, but I wonder how much it applies when Fran played in a time when the largest defensive players were like 260. He's gonna have to slide, run out of bounds, throw the ball away etc much more. Its a question as to how much of that makes him who he is. You still want Johnny Football, but you want Johnny Football to hold up. A good question is what is the over/under number of games he starts on average for the first 8 years of his career?
 
jradMIT said:
Yeah I have heard the Tarkington comparison, but I wonder how much it applies when Fran played in a time when the largest defensive players were like 260. He's gonna have to slide, run out of bounds, throw the ball away etc much more. Its a question as to how much of that makes him who he is. You still want Johnny Football, but you want Johnny Football to hold up. A good question is what is the over/under number of games he starts on average for the first 8 years of his career?
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No, I don't want Johnny Football, I want Johnny Manziel.
 
Lord Bills said:
4.63 and 4.56.

Very good numbers. He's in the kapernick wilson range which means his speed and athleticism are real and he can out run NFL defenses.

Looking at game film vs the best competition college football had to offer should have been enough for people but i digress....

I hope bob mcnair pulls rank on obrien and personally orders the selection of manziel. This franchise needs to be saved from cocky know it all GMs and head coaches.
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There is a diplomatic way of doing this without creating the dissension we've seen elsewhere. He just has to inject his desire in the discussion while coordinating the choice of the pick. This lets OB and RS retain the Man in Charge image. Neither are in a position to throw a hissy fit. Anyway, we're not talking about taking a second tier QB in Manzeil.

That said, I still think we could get him with the 4th pick and I'd love the extra picks from trading down.
 
Goldensilence said:
I don't know about common knowledge, but I actually share fairly similar speculation.

I think McNair looks towards the Rooney's as far as a model for a consistent blueprint for running a franchise, which means keeping an even level on things. For the most part I applaud this. However, I think McNair overly trusted Kubiak and I think he let Kubiak make the lion's share of decisions on personnel.

Let me state upfront: I don't think Gary Kubiak is a bad guy or necessarily a bad coach. I think the most consistent problem under Gary was identifying and developing talent. He seemed to gravitate to players much like himself as a player, not the most physically gifted but tried to make up for it in their approach to the game. He also liked to try to take long shot on some guys in fairly high spots; Molden as well as Okoye.

My other problem is that Gary did not seem to want people around he did not feel comfortable with or went out of his circle of what he knew. This lead to some really poor decisions on the staff in general. I think you can get away with this when you have a stronger GM who calls the shots in personnel and says: "I know what you're looking for in players, while I am not going to make the calls exclusively, at the end of the day this is what you've got to work with."

I am still not 100% sure that Rick Smith was allowed the ability to work anywhere near independent of Gary's decisions except maybe the last two years when it seemed the draft process (at least in my view) steered away from Gary making the calls. I am guessing this is why he likely still has a job.

I am relieved if nothing else some of the most questionable parts of the personnel side have been replaced, I still think there could be a few more specially if Rick Smith is shown the door next year if this team doesn't perform well.
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I really don't get the Rick Smith hate around here. He's a functionary and good at it. Perhaps it is because so few people appreciate the details of his job and simply think of him as a target of convenience for anything they do not like about the recent struggles of the Texans.
 
Number19 said:
No one, including Johnny, expects him to play the same game as he did in college. Part of his workout regime is to adapt to playing under center, his footwork on 3, 5 and 7 step drops and his technique for throwing from a pocket. By all reports he pretty much has dedicated himself to becoming an effective NFL QB. Any organization who drafts Manziel would be smart to mold their offense around him and not force him into something he is not. One player who he is being compared to is Fran Tarkington, for those of you old enough to know of this Viking great.
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I'd take another Fran Tarkington or Archie Manning (another comparison) in a heartbeat.
 
Fran wouldn't make it in todays nfl. All those ad lib plays behind los would get him injured and cut. Every play can't be off schedule either. Not to mention,he had some great players like forman,rashad,and the purple people eaters on defense. Not saying JF can't play or won't have success, I just think the way he plays, wil doom him.
 
leebigeztx said:
Fran wouldn't make it in todays nfl. All those ad lib plays behind los would get him injured and cut. Every play can't be off schedule either. Not to mention,he had some great players like forman,rashad,and the purple people eaters on defense. Not saying JF can't play or won't have success, I just think the way he plays, wil doom him.
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They told him he wouldn't last then too. But he did.
 
His scrambling doesn't worry me as much as him not being a good qb in the pocket. Sitting there going through multiple reads seems like a tall task for him.

He's going to need a lot of coaching up.
 
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_King_ said:
His scrambling doesn't worry me as much as him not being a good qb in the pocket. Sitting there going through multiple reads seems like a tall task for him.

He's going to need a lot of coaching up.
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Unless Whitfield is lying, Manziel is pretty damn accurate from the pocket. Link
“He was better this year than last year.” Whitfield told me. “Leading college football in accuracy from the pocket, top three in accuracy when the ball travels beyond 15 yards. You really can’t have that kind of success from the pocket or downfield if you’re not breaking down defenses and making reads.”
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Number19 said:
No, I don't want Johnny Football, I want Johnny Manziel.
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I want Johnny Football.


Well, I don't "want" Johnny Football, but that's the guy I want to see in the NFL. Very entertaining. However, if I were his coach, I'd tell him to throw it away if he doesn't have a good look. Anytime he feels like going off schedule... throw it away.

Then during the game, when appropriate I'd tell him, "Johnny... we need you to win the game." & I expect to see Johnny Football.


But I'd tell any QB that. Play within the system, until it's time to not play within the system. The better QBs learn when that is & make that decision on their own.
 
Adam Schefter: "Sense in Indy/around the league that there's growing skepticism that the Texans would select Manziel with the overall #1 pick, and that they don't believe the Texans would eventually end up with Manziel because he's a poor fit for Bill O'Brien's offense."
 
Playoffs said:
Adam Schefter: "Sense in Indy/around the league that there's growing skepticism that the Texans would select Manziel with the overall #1 pick, and that they don't believe the Texans would eventually end up with Manziel because he's a poor fit for Bill O'Brien's offense."
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We are going with bridgewater.
 
Texian said:
Two people who can't answer a question.
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Navorro Bowman and Patrick Willis are the most important people to the Niner's success although it's that entire defense along with Aldon Smith.

I don't consider Kaepernick that important to their success and I don't consider Aldon Smith all that important to their success, either.
 
Did anyone notice who was in the booth with Smith and OB at the combine when the QB's were doing their thing? Lombardi. Hmmmmm!
 
mussop said:
Yep at this stage of their careers Manziel is the far superior QB.
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You've got to be kidding...

More exciting player? Certainly. Superior as a QB? No.

Wilson was a slightly better athlete. Had a stronger arm. Played in two different pro style systems while Manziel has only played in Sumlin's high school offense. Wilson was named team captain at Wisconsin by his teammates after only having been there for two weeks. Manziel has maturity concerns (he's also younger than Wilson was). Wilson used his arm as a primary weapon and his legs when he had to. Manziel uses his legs as his primary weapon and his arm as a secondary one. Wilson was a one man team for three years before he got to Wisconsin. Manziel has been surrounded by as much NFL talent as any QB in the country.

Manziel had a great college career and fantastic stats. Won a Heisman. We all know his story.

Wilson had 17 TDs to 1 INT as a RS FR. As a RS SO he had a 379 pass streak without throwing an INT. Led the conference in passing and total offense again as a RS JR. Transferred to Wisconsin and broke the collegiate record for passing efficiency in a pro style offense that he only had weeks to learn before the season started. Led his team to a conference title and had a ratio of 33 TDs to 4 INTs.
 
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