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LZ Report Draft Show....
- Thread starter LZ
- Start date
Errant Hothy
Hypermediocrity
Lance, are there any CBs in this class who could make the transition to FS?
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
Lance, how do you feel about Kenny Phillips at 18? Thanks in advance, i realize you answer a lot of questions.
badboy
Hall of Fame
I'm looking at CB Darnell Terell a big guy with good speed for FS in 5th. LZ your opinion would be appreciated.
Late first to mid 2nd to a 3-4 team. I think it is a mistake for 4-3 teams not to consider him as a Sam LB who can drop down to DE on pass rushing situations.
I've heard conflicting reporst on Godfrey from Iowa. One scouts swears he is too stiff and doesn't have the instincts to play FS. A position coach believes his instincts are good enough and that he could swing to FS if needed.
The first thing you have to look at is whether or not a guy can tackle. Nowadays most teams are playing their safeties as hybrids between strong and free so they want both safeties to be able to tackle. A few teams will play their FS deep so in those schemes coverage skills, and more importantly instincts, are more important.
A few guys who could swing are:
Reggie Smith - OU : Lacks the type of instincts you want, but he might be another Eugene Wilson.
Terrell Thomas - USC: Good hitter but lacks quickness to play exclusively "centerfield".
Dwight Lowerey - SJ State: You could see he has good ball skils when he was here at the Shrine Game practices. He's not a great athlete so FS might be a better fit.
Chevis Jackson - LSU: His time 40 time puts him in this category because he does everything pretty well except run. Would probably make a solid FS.
He's just not a special safety and he's more of a box safety than a free safety so I don't really like that pick for the Texans. Would he be an upgrade? Yes. Is he worth the 18th pick? I can't find very many people who think so.
I'll be honest on this. Unless you get coaching film from the endzone or from the press box, it is very difficult to see what you need to see to create your own, informed opinion on a DB. I watched Missouri 6 times this year but it is hard to get what you need from those games even when you tape them. I sent a text about Terell to a scout from that region and he thinks he's probably a better fit as a Cover 2 CB. He doesn't think he has the instincts or ball skills to play safety. "Just doesn't make any plays despite his speed".
Last week's Z Report Draft Show is being podcast on my blog at:
http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2008/03/post_45.html#comments
http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2008/03/post_45.html#comments
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Since we seem to be on DBs, how do you feel about Brandon Flowers?
I feel as if he is being overhyped. I actually like Flowers, and enjoyed watching him this year and years prior, but I just don't see him being a round 1 guy.
How do you feel about the player, and his draft status?
I feel as if he is being overhyped. I actually like Flowers, and enjoyed watching him this year and years prior, but I just don't see him being a round 1 guy.
How do you feel about the player, and his draft status?
Some guys play to their speed and some guys don't. I think he plays faster than a 4.58 on the field and he's a good tackler/hitter with good cover skills. I know there are teams who are very high on him. You still need to draft players according to your value on him and as a mid to high 4.5 guy he is going to go in the 2nd more than likely but as an overall CB I think he is less risky than DRC. He may not have as high a ceiling but his floor might be higher.
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
Lance, I'd love to get in a few questions while we're on CB's:
1. Does the signing of Reeves have any effect on us NOT taking a CB in the 1st round? (especially if it's at or close to BPA)
2. What exactly is the scheme we're trying to implement in the secondary? I've heard zone, but then I heard Reeves played zone in dallas and is better on the WR? I think this question really leads into the next one.
3. What CB's in the draft would be good fits for the scheme we're running? Example: No use selecting a cover-2 guy if we're playing strictly man up.
4. There has been little to no talk about Antoine Cason, CB from Arizona. I just simply don't see how he's being viewed as a late 2nd rounder now. I'd love to know what you think of him and what the talk about this guy is in some of the circles, especially as it relates to the Texans.
Thank you very much!
1. Does the signing of Reeves have any effect on us NOT taking a CB in the 1st round? (especially if it's at or close to BPA)
2. What exactly is the scheme we're trying to implement in the secondary? I've heard zone, but then I heard Reeves played zone in dallas and is better on the WR? I think this question really leads into the next one.
3. What CB's in the draft would be good fits for the scheme we're running? Example: No use selecting a cover-2 guy if we're playing strictly man up.
4. There has been little to no talk about Antoine Cason, CB from Arizona. I just simply don't see how he's being viewed as a late 2nd rounder now. I'd love to know what you think of him and what the talk about this guy is in some of the circles, especially as it relates to the Texans.
Thank you very much!
Chance_C
All Pro
Which is the reason why I'm scared to take him with the 18th pick. DRC that is. Not that I'm against it, but I think it's a bigger risk higher reward type pick. On the other hand, if we continue to add to our secondary via FA, then maybe we could take DRC, and groom him for that role in a nickel situation. Assuming he doesn't when the job outright that is. Wow, what a luxury that would be.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
we all do this, no knock on you I think its a smart evaluation (talking self into the exact opposite as when you started the post). the best way the Texans improve is through better coaching, evaulation of talent & drafting the best players available for the system they want to employ.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Good questions OMT. Is Reeves good enough to not draft a CB or is that too risky?Lance, I'd love to get in a few questions while we're on CB's:
1. Does the signing of Reeves have any effect on us NOT taking a CB in the 1st round? (especially if it's at or close to BPA)
2. What exactly is the scheme we're trying to implement in the secondary? I've heard zone, but then I heard Reeves played zone in dallas and is better on the WR? I think this question really leads into the next one.
3. What CB's in the draft would be good fits for the scheme we're running? Example: No use selecting a cover-2 guy if we're playing strictly man up.
4. There has been little to no talk about Antoine Cason, CB from Arizona. I just simply don't see how he's being viewed as a late 2nd rounder now. I'd love to know what you think of him and what the talk about this guy is in some of the circles, especially as it relates to the Texans.
Thank you very much!
Chance_C
All Pro
Yeah, I know. I do it all the time. I'm just always so undecided come draft time, that I'm subject to go whichever way the winds blowing...
But do you see my point? I think (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that DRC is more of a project...no let's say it this way.....maybe DRC is not as NFL ready as say Talib, or Flowers, or Cason, or McKelvin or whoever. We need the most NFL ready CB at the 18th IMO.Disclaimer:
My opinion could change drastically.....based on FA, and the wind...
badboy
Hall of Fame
Would Reeves have signed if he thought Houston would go CB in first?Yeah, I know. I do it all the time. I'm just always so undecided come draft time, that I'm subject to go whichever way the winds blowing...
Disclaimer:
My opinion could change drastically.....based on FA, and the wind...
Chance_C
All Pro
Yeah, I think so. He has a chance to compete for a starting spot. I hope he has enough confidence in himself that he would have signed, even at the risk of competing against a rookie. We are weak at CB, he knows that. He got pretty good money to come here (don't know if Dallas offered him anything or not). Plus we are becoming a more attractive destination for people. Lots of reasons to want to come here IMO.
Specnatz
Hall of Fame
Honestly I do not think that is even considered by a position player other than QB.
bah007
Hall of Fame
If he cant handle competing for a job in our secondary, then he shouldnt be in the NFL.
He probably saw this as his best shot to be a starter, not necesarilly a guarantee.
texasguy346
Mod Squad
bigbrewster2000
Veteran
IMO Dunta is the one that should be worrying about his future with the Texans. Nobody wants to hear this but he is going to be coming off a terrible set of injuries in a contract year, and it really looks like the Texans are setting themselves up for the future here especially if they go CB in the 1st. And personally I am glad they are going this direction. I like Dunta and hope he comes back and remains a Texan for his whole career but I like the fact that the Texans arent going to sit on their hands and create massive holes in our secondary depth chart.
CB in the first = no Dunta in the future.
I agree that it is good that the Texans are preparing for life without DR. However I dont think that if they pick a CB that means no Dunta. I am unsure how he will perform after the knee injury. Long term he may need to be moved to Safety.
Lance, I'd love to get in a few questions while we're on CB's:
1. Does the signing of Reeves have any effect on us NOT taking a CB in the 1st round? (especially if it's at or close to BPA)
2. What exactly is the scheme we're trying to implement in the secondary? I've heard zone, but then I heard Reeves played zone in dallas and is better on the WR? I think this question really leads into the next one.
3. What CB's in the draft would be good fits for the scheme we're running? Example: No use selecting a cover-2 guy if we're playing strictly man up.
4. There has been little to no talk about Antoine Cason, CB from Arizona. I just simply don't see how he's being viewed as a late 2nd rounder now. I'd love to know what you think of him and what the talk about this guy is in some of the circles, especially as it relates to the Texans.
Thank you very much!
Question 1: I can't see that it will matter at all. Reeves will start this year in all likelihood since DRob is almost a lock not to play and you never know what will happen with DRob and his contract status after next year. If 4 tackles are off the board by 18 (which I think will be the case), then CB becomes the favorite to go at 18.
Question 2: The Texans would prefer to be a man team more than zone, but they had to play zone out of necessity by the end of the year. They don't have the prototypical "centerfielder" at safety who can play deep and give great coverage in zone so that limits them in my opinion. There are times I'm uncertain if the defense really knows what they want to be. On offense, there are no doubts.
Question 3: The Texans have a history of going after guys who can run and who can tackle (well except for Buchanon). You can find guys who can run and you can find guys who will come up and tackle, but it is hard to find both. Five guys to watch for would be: DRC, Charles Godfrey, Antwaun Molden, Terrence Wheatley and Reggie Smith. All of these guys will tackle at least a little bit and all but Smith run well (we'll see about Smith, but I think he'll be in the low to mid 4.5s).
Question 4: The talk about Cason is that he's overrated by the draft services and that he is a 3rd round cornerback with one scout telling me "he stinks". I watched him over the last two years and I don't think he "stinks" but he's not super physical and he has more trouble in man than you would like. If he's threre in the 3rd, I'm sure the Texans will take a look unless they go CB in the 1st.
For the money he got? Yes.
Errant Hothy
Hypermediocrity
Very good cover corner but not a fan of contact.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
hey Lance, as discussed earlier Groves stock is rising & you brought up an interesting point that 4-3 teams should not discount his value especially in pass rushing situations, but what excatly would be the process from here to get him into Relient for a personal workout? if you could explain how the process works from now til draft day, I'd appreciate it
Errant Hothy
Hypermediocrity
OK.
You ever get a solid answer of Joe Thomas' arm length?
Possiblly the correct answer...maybe?
So late last night I was going over all back through all of last year's draft mags, and lo and behold PFW's had an arm length listed for Joe Thomas. Side note; I'm not overly fond of PFW draft magazine, but their book that come out a couple weeks before the draft is excellent.
Thomas' listed arm length: 32 5/8"
TEXANRED
Texan-American
I originally thought DRob would take the Spencer path and begin the year of the PUP list and end up on IR. Only problem is that next year is his contract year and lesser CB's like Clements and A.S. are getting 8-10 million a year.
I believe some how some way DRob will find the field next year.
Who knows, maybe as we speak he is using TO's amazing mystical cure all hyperbaric chamber.
hey Lance, as discussed earlier Groves stock is rising & you brought up an interesting point that 4-3 teams should not discount his value especially in pass rushing situations, but what excatly would be the process from here to get him into Relient for a personal workout? if you could explain how the process works from now til draft day, I'd appreciate it
If the Texans wanted to bring him in for a workout, then he would have to be on a limited list of players they can bring in. I can't remember the total number and one of my agent friends isn't answering at this time of night but I think the number of players you can bring in is something
No prayer. The old "hammy off the bone" is a b*tch and if that wasn't bad enough, once that gets taken care of, he has extensive rehab with the knee. The timetable for that kind of crazy rehab is just too long to expect him to make it back any earlier than December (which would be too late).
beerlover
Hall of Fame
that makes it critical to identify your prospects/need players. outside of bringing them in for a final evaluation, what access do teams get on Pro Days? meanwhile I have to start working on a 14 player list, half of those for the 1st pick, the rest in case of a trade down or 3rd/4th rd. availability. thanks for the insight.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
I guess Reeves was a flexibility signing in case a better player at another position was there at # 18 .
I wonder if we can get a player that's athletic but raw like Godfrey CB or Benedict OL and really improve them because of the addition of Rhodes and Gibbs . Of course that would mean that they need to be coachable .
According to NFL [SIZE=-1]VP of communications Greg Aiello (courtesy of the NY Times), the limit to draft prospect visits is at 30. But, no physical workouts. Local players (players who went to college or HS in the Houston area) don't count against the list.
[/SIZE]
Sorry to make your list longer, beerlover.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
there must be some mistake, it says no physical workouts, maybe this is a seperate occurance. LZ must have meant that you can bring in up to 12 prospects to run them through some physical tests/workouts?
Individual workouts can't be held at the NFL teams facility. Those are usually held at the player's college campus or pro day location. I don't think there is a limit as to how many players can be worked out per team in this instance. Just a limit on visits to the facility.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
Hey LZ, I read your blog on what your "scout" thought about a few RB's. I was kind of surprised to see him/her speak so highly of Tashard Choice. He even recommended Choice over Rice and Smith. Can you give more information on Choice and why he/she liked him so much.
He also mentioned Forte would fit right into our scheme, but I don't foresee the Texans reaching for him at 18. IMO, he'll be a late 1st or an early second round pick. Which is our dead spot in the draft.
Who else could possibly plug in our scheme and produce right away?
He also mentioned Forte would fit right into our scheme, but I don't foresee the Texans reaching for him at 18. IMO, he'll be a late 1st or an early second round pick. Which is our dead spot in the draft.
Who else could possibly plug in our scheme and produce right away?
What about physical exams? Can a team bring in a player they might want to draft and may have a question about, in terms of his health (like a previous knee or shoulder injury), and give him a physical?
Haven't seen anything that would address that. I would suppose that if the player wasn't a combine invite (where the x-rays & examinations take place), that would be allowed.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Teams are allowed to bring a limited number of players to their facility for interviews. Don't know if it includes an exam.
Hey LZ, I read your blog on what your "scout" thought about a few RB's. I was kind of surprised to see him/her speak so highly of Tashard Choice. He even recommended Choice over Rice and Smith. Can you give more information on Choice and why he/she liked him so much.
He also mentioned Forte would fit right into our scheme, but I don't foresee the Texans reaching for him at 18. IMO, he'll be a late 1st or an early second round pick. Which is our dead spot in the draft.
Who else could possibly plug in our scheme and produce right away?
He is a real scout and not just a "scout". LOL. As for Choice, I'm not a huge fan, but one thing I was told was that if you watched the wrong games last year, you might see him when he was injured and he played when he was severely hampered and when he was healthy it was like night and day. Forte was mentioned as a fit, but that is in the 3rd or 4th round... not at 18. I think some of the best fits would be Rice, Hart (a little too slow though), C. Johnson and possibly J. Charles. If you are interested in fits who might not produce right away but who you could get later, I would say Thomas Brown, Justin Forsett and maybe Ryan Torain (also not that fast).
I'm pretty sure they can give a physical exam. In fact, I'm almost positive.
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
Yeah, Hart reminds me of a smaller Dayne. Big guy with good feet but not a lot of breakaway speed, especially against NFL speed.
Aside from his production at college and some of his intangibles, another thing that I absoltely love about the guy was that HE was the guy who stepped up for Michigan and turned their season around. He loves to play football and he has pride in his heart. He was a team leader and backed up his talk with his play and didn't throw some sort of pity party when things went so wrong early for UofM in 2007. He also had to deal with a lot of the media pressure and off the field distractions at the power Michigan, that are part and parcel of being an NFL professional. I have no clue where he will be picked but if we have yet to address RB and he is there in the 4th Round, we might have to take a shot.
Aside from his production at college and some of his intangibles, another thing that I absoltely love about the guy was that HE was the guy who stepped up for Michigan and turned their season around. He loves to play football and he has pride in his heart. He was a team leader and backed up his talk with his play and didn't throw some sort of pity party when things went so wrong early for UofM in 2007. He also had to deal with a lot of the media pressure and off the field distractions at the power Michigan, that are part and parcel of being an NFL professional. I have no clue where he will be picked but if we have yet to address RB and he is there in the 4th Round, we might have to take a shot.