Listening to Mark Vandemere on 610.....

[infantrycak]

Fine, let's say harrington had all the advantages........... What happened to Batch?? What happened to Garcia?? WHat happened to any QB that tried to play their?? Has there ever been a succesful QB in Detroit??

No one is saying David had it better than Joey............ but that Joey had it as bad........... different situations, but neither were good.

Didn't say Harrington had all the advantages or played on a good team but IMO it is silly to act like he had it as bad as Carr either--neither was in a good situation but Harrington's was a better version of bad. In addition, even if you won't admit the actual results were better surrounding Harrington, they certainly tried more to make that O work.

What happened to Batch?--you mean other than playing for a not so good to bad team built around Barry Sanders right after Sanders retired? What happened to Jeff Garcia?--nothing special it doesn't appear--he was the same mediocre QB who in subsequent years has been let go by the 49ers, Browns and now Lions.

 

[titan hater]

I will answer that for him- AAAHHH Vince Young.

I was hopping to avoid another VY discussion....

He's not coming to H-Town...Looks like da Oakland Radiers....

 

[thunderkyss]

Didn't say Harrington had all the advantages or played on a good team but IMO it is silly to act like he had it as bad as Carr either--neither was in a good situation but Harrington's was a better version of bad. In addition, even if you won't admit the actual results were better surrounding Harrington, they certainly tried more to make that O work.

What happened to Batch?--you mean other than playing for a not so good to bad team built around Barry Sanders right after Sanders retired? What happened to Jeff Garcia?--nothing special it doesn't appear--he was the same mediocre QB who in subsequent years has been let go by the 49ers, Browns and now Lions.

I'm not too upset about the situation. I think Joey deserved another shot, a legit shot in Detroit. I think he got that when Martz evaluated him, and named him his guy. Joey didn't like the situation, and wanted out........... So my argument, if Carr deserves another shot, then Joey does too, is satisfied. The Lions were going to give him his shot.

So Joeys better.. bad situation vs Carr's bad situation argument is moot as far as I'm concerned. I don't believe the NFL has seen what these two QBs can really do. I'll leave it at that.

 

[infantrycak]

So minus himself, the WRs who have been useless with two being outperformed by a WR that barely saw a read goes his way and a first round RB that was outperformed by a 4th round running back, Harrington had a first round LT. Woo-hoo.

You mean other than an offensive guru head coach (which you keep ignoring) two 1st round OLmen (by the way, the Detroit Lions OL's pass protection ranked 1st in two of the 4 years he was QB vs. the Texans' which ranked 32nd twice) oh and a 1st round TE.

Let's see the Texans this off-season have added a offensive minded head coach, a solid C and an upgrade TE. Guess all of that is woo-hoo for both teams' O's.

So yes, Harrington had a line (he also probably had more pocket presence than Carr has, but that's another subject) but if all you needed was a line to win in the NFL I would figure that the top picks in every NFL draft would be offensive lineman.

Well nice to see you will concede at least the obvious--Harrington had a better OL. Of course the implication that it is of no advantage is pretty silly.

Harrington had nothing to work with on the field, the trainers room held all the talent.

OK--I guess Rogers was all the talent on the team. Sure he was--he is the only 1st rounder who has missed a substantial amount of time due to injury--more than say DD.

 

[Fiddy]

You mean other than an offensive guru head coach (which you keep ignoring) two 1st round OLmen (by the way, the Detroit Lions OL's pass protection ranked 1st in two of the 4 years he was QB vs. the Texans' which ranked 32nd twice) oh and a 1st round TE.

I honestly dont remember correctly, but didnt the offensive guru Mooch get fired midway through the season???

Well nice to see you will concede at least the obvious--Harrington had a better OL. Of course the implication that it is of no advantage is pretty silly.

I didnt say it was no advantage, you've just made it the be-all-end-all circumstance. It sounds like if a QB has a good O-line then there is no reason to fail.

OK--I guess Rogers was all the talent on the team. Sure he was--he is the only 1st rounder who has missed a substantial amount of time due to injury--more than say DD.

You're forgetting that Roy Williams was always less than a 100% with ankle problems and may have started a lot of games, but didnt finish all those games. And you've made it sound like these 1st rounders that Detriot has are no miss prospects who only failed because of Harrington.

 

[dbspi]

Texans acquire Molds from Buffallo.

http://www.790kbme.com/cc-common/mainheadlines3.html?feed=121311&article=395219

http://sports.espn.go.com/NFL/news/story?id=2390132

 

[infantrycak]

I honestly dont remember correctly, but didnt the offensive guru Mooch get fired midway through the season???

Yeah, midway thru Harrington's 4th year. Are you honestly acting as if Mooch isn't a better coach to develop a QB than Capers?

I didnt say it was no advantage, you've just made it the be-all-end-all circumstance. It sounds like if a QB has a good O-line then there is no reason to fail.

Sorry, BS--I listed it as one of a number of items--in otherwords the opposite of a be-all-end-all circumstance. Simple rule which is really pretty incontrovertable--better OL makes it easier for a QB to develop. Doesn't mean every QB will succeed but it is a better situation--care to dispute that proposition?

And you've made it sound like these 1st rounders that Detriot has are no miss prospects who only failed because of Harrington.

Find anything that remotely resembles that in anything I posted.

 

[Erratic Assassin]

I'm not sure the "Real Line" thing is not all that certain at this point.

How do we go from being the worst line in the NFL to a "real line" overnight. We picked up an injury-prone senior citizen to play center. That doesn't make me feel better.

If our experience with Tony Boselli, Gary Walker, and Seth Payne hasn't taught us what to expect, nothing will. Yeah, they'd be fantastic if they weren't wearing their street clothes on the sideline. But I already know what everyone is thinking...that won't happen to us THIS time. THIS injury-prone medicare recipient won't get injured. Unlike every other human being on earth, he will actually get healthier and MORE durable as he gets older.

 

[cuppacoffee]

I was on the way home yesterday and he brought up an interesting stat on David YUGO and Joey Harrington:
Games JH-58 DY-60

Games started JH-55 DY-58

ATT JH-1802 DY 1628,

COMP. JH-986 DY- 941

PCT. JH-54.7 DY-57.8

Yards JH-10,242 DY-10,624

Yards per Attempt JH-5.68 DY-6.53

LG. JH-86 DY-81

TD'S JH-60 DY-48

INT. JH-62 DY-53

20+ pass plays JH-118 DY-118

40+ pass plays JH-19 DY-18

Passer Rating JH-68.1 DY-73.7

The numbers are scary!!!! They are VERY SIMILAR! One not only loses his job but gets cut..... the other gets a multi-year, multi-million dollar extension. Detroit also won MORE games with Harrington than we won with David Yugo.... please draft VY!

When I hear jayseed why do I think hayseed?...
It's fun changing peoples names to make a point isn't it?

Who is the he you are referring to that brought it up?

Your stats prove just what? That DC can generate equal/better stats and earn a better QB rating playing for an expansion team than JH did playing for an established NFL team.

Give it up! Every possible excuse has been given by the vy lovers why he should be drafted by the Texans. Bottom line, vy is not even the best qb in this draft, definitely not the #1 draft choice.

I swore not to respond to any more vy threads and managed to last over three weeks, but gawd the orangeglasses are relentless...

Maybe I can last another three weeks without responding again to vy lovers.

And yes...I am in Carrs' corner, especially when it comes to detractors who don't seem to have a clue on their own and just quote some stats that don't prove a thing.

 

[bkimble]

DC is garbage plain and simple......thank you for listening and for all of yall who dont like it please ask me if i care?

no no no, he's worse than garbage. And I'm sick of his enablers. watch his eyes, he is afraid in the game.

 

[Fiddy]

Yeah, midway thru Harrington's 4th year. Are you honestly acting as if Mooch isn't a better coach to develop a QB than Capers?

No, I'm just saying an offensive guru will have trouble with any QB if that QB doesnt have anyone to rely on...

Sorry, BS--I listed it as one of a number of items--in otherwords the opposite of a be-all-end-all circumstance. Simple rule which is really pretty incontrovertable--better OL makes it easier for a QB to develop. Doesn't mean every QB will succeed but it is a better situation--care to dispute that proposition?

You listed the fact they had 7 first rounders (the majority of those have problems) and a west coast offense with an offensive guru (coaches got canned). It's clearly easier to develop with a good o-line, I'm just saying that a good o-line isnt everything.

Find anything that remotely resembles that in anything I posted.

I got that assumption by you bringing up the fact that they had 7 first rounders on offense. You never pointed out that 3 (the WRs) of the 7 first rounders have their own problems, like staying healthy and that another one (Jones) had a sophomore slump. You said Harrington had a better supporting cast, but it's hard to have a better supporting cast when they are all in the trainers room or just can't play on the field.

 

[Grid]

no no no, he's worse than garbage. And I'm sick of his enablers. watch his eyes, he is afraid in the game.

boy i hope you were joking. Either that, or you spent a FORTUNE on some awesome binoculars.

 

[Koolbrz]

Let's see how established Detroit was... in 2001 they were 2-14, the Texans were NON-Existent....
2002 Houston goes 4-12..... the "established NFL team" goes 3-13

2003 Both teams go 5-11

2004 Houston goes 7-9..... Detroit with all its talent goes 6-10

2005 Houston goes 2-14..... JH wins 150% more games than David Yugo ( 5 wins ) and he gets cut!

This must be the Board of The David Yugo family.... CALL A DUCK A DUCK!!!!! 4 years....that was his "learning" time..... now he gets a new system..... guess he gets to draw ANOTHER 4 years worth of paychecks before anybody will hold him accountable. :brickwall

You are going to eat your words after this yr. DC will be a much improved player. He now has some weapons to use. Compare this recieving corp to last yrs. Hell Yeah!! We had some talent. Doesn't get any better than Bradford, Gaffney, Armstrong, and AJ. LOL...AJ is the only exception. We now have a recieving corps we can be proud of. AJ, Moulds, Walters or whatever his name is. Don't you dare cheer DC on when he is whippin up on the opposing team. Remember how you have dogged him this offseason and EAT YOUR WORDS!!

 

[Hervoyel]

You are going to eat your words after this yr. DC will be a much improved player.

No, he won't eat his words. He'll do one of two things if David Carr turns into a much improved player this year. He'll either vanish in a puff of smoke and never be seen again using that login or he'll find something to complain about and keep right on complaining. That's the nature of this kind of poster. It doesn't change.

 

[thunderkyss]

I refuse to believe that Detroit has a better team than Houston. I don't care if they had signed T.O. , Marvin Harris, Peyton Manning, with McNabb as backup, Larry Allen LeCharles Bently, OPace, LT, Shaun Alexander, Jeremy Shockey, Jason Witten, Lavar Arrington, Ray lewis, Michael Strahan, Demarcus Ware, Terrence Newman, Deltha Oneal, Roy Williams, John Lynch, and the best of the rest to fill out the team. They could have Belecheck as their DC, Mike Martz as their OC, & Mike Holmgren/shanahan as co-headcoaches.


and they will still not be a better team than the Houston Texans. If that franchise was around for 25 years, they would have sucked for 26 years. that's how bad it is in Detroit. Never was nothing, never will be.

 

[Texan Asylum]

I refuse to believe that Detroit has a better team than Houston. I don't care if they had signed T.O. , Marvin Harris, Peyton Manning, with McNabb as backup, Larry Allen LeCharles Bently, OPace, LT, Shaun Alexander, Jeremy Shockey, Jason Witten, Lavar Arrington, Ray lewis, Michael Strahan, Demarcus Ware, Terrence Newman, Deltha Oneal, Roy Williams, John Lynch, and the best of the rest to fill out the team. They could have Belecheck as their DC, Mike Martz as their OC, & Mike Holmgren/shanahan as co-headcoaches.


and they will still not be a better team than the Houston Texans. If that franchise was around for 25 years, they would have sucked for 26 years. that's how bad it is in Detroit. Never was nothing, never will be.

Detroit needs Nugent to be their Head Coach. Perhaps they could then play something.

 

[Bearfan Blue and Orange]

I refuse to believe that Detroit has a better team than Houston. I don't care if they had signed T.O. , Marvin Harris, Peyton Manning, with McNabb as backup, Larry Allen LeCharles Bently, OPace, LT, Shaun Alexander, Jeremy Shockey, Jason Witten, Lavar Arrington, Ray lewis, Michael Strahan, Demarcus Ware, Terrence Newman, Deltha Oneal, Roy Williams, John Lynch, and the best of the rest to fill out the team. They could have Belecheck as their DC, Mike Martz as their OC, & Mike Holmgren/shanahan as co-headcoaches.

and they will still not be a better team than the Houston Texans. If that franchise was around for 25 years, they would have sucked for 26 years. that's how bad it is in Detroit. Never was nothing, never will be.

I know the sarcasm, but I really thing they would have a better team if they signed the above players you mentioned.

 

[SnakeOilTanker]

waaaaaaaaaaaaaa waaaaaaaaaa waaaaaaa I want Vince waaaaaaaaaa David is a poopy head! I hate him! He stole my lunch money! waaaaaaaaaaaaaa Vince is a hero because he lives in the city I do, I'm never watching the texans again waaaaaaaaa

get over it, we are keeping carr, not drafting vince

feel free to cry some more

 

[Oilers/Texans]

The numbers are scary!!!! They are VERY SIMILAR! One not only loses his job but gets cut..... the other gets a multi-year, multi-million dollar extension. Detroit also won MORE games with Harrington than we won with David Yugo.... please draft VY!

Just stop it, you are embarassing yourself!!

 

[Bobo]

Are you just getting this info? They have been harping on this for months now. The difference is that Carr started out with an expansion team while Harrington went with a team that was much more established and had a stronger core than the Texans did. Those numbers you quoted are only valid if you are playing fantasy football.

 

[Texan Asylum]

SnakeOilTanker:
waaaaaaaaaaaaaa waaaaaaaaaa waaaaaaa I want Vince waaaaaaaaaa David is a poopy head!

Now that's funny.

 

[TexanSam]

If David Yugo can turn into an "average" quarterback I will be elated. Nothing like having somebody behind center that has a job of "not to lose the game" and let all of the talent around him win the game. Seems like a fair return for the small salary he receives. GOOD quaterbacks make players around him BETTER...... David Yugo does not do that.

All these excuses as to why David Carr suposedly sucks and what not are getting kind of old. I've defended him my fair share. For all you David Carr haters and Vince Young homers, face it, David Carr is our QB for the next 3 years. Some of us like the idea, some of us don't, but the writing's on the wall. I just can't wait until the draft gets closer and I'm sure the VY fans will be coming in full force again...

 

[Ibar_Harry]

Are you just getting this info? They have been harping on this for months now. The difference is that Carr started out with an expansion team while Harrington went with a team that was much more established and had a stronger core than the Texans did. Those numbers you quoted are only valid if you are playing fantasy football.

This goes back to the draft and the Harrington fans never got over how a Fresno State dude could become the number 1 pick over their guy. They have gone on and on. The common bond is both were taught by Tedford the former Fresno State player, CFL player, qb coach, and now head coach of Cal.
Its the Pac 10 vs WACC image factor. Oh well, you will see a lot more of it before its over.

Carr could win the SB and they would say their guy is still better he just never got the opportunity. Perhaps they should all go and take Piano lessons from Harrington. May be then they would sing a different tune.

 

[Bobo]

The bottom line is this: David Carr is NOT the problem with this team. He threw for more than 3,000 yards on three-year-old team and helped take them to the cusp of .500. Don't give him better receivers because it won't do him any good if he can't get the ball off before the opposing rush is all over him. The problem on the offense has been the line ever since Boselli failed to pan out. It's that plain and simple. So stop fronting for Vince Young by bashing Carr -- it's as transparent as cellophane.

 

[AustinJB]

The bottom line is this: David Carr is NOT the problem with this team. He threw for more than 3,000 yards on three-year-old team and helped take them to the cusp of .500. Don't give him better receivers because it won't do him any good if he can't get the ball off before the opposing rush is all over him. The problem on the offense has been the line ever since Boselli failed to pan out. It's that plain and simple. So stop fronting for Vince Young by bashing Carr -- it's as transparent as cellophane.

I will concede that Carr is not the ONLY problem w/ our team, but he IS definately one of the problems w/ this team. If you don't think so, then I don't know what you've been watching.

I'm not saying that Carr can't improve...I hope to God that he can b/c it looks like he'll be our QB for another three years....I just have my doubts.

 

[tsip]

The bottom line is this: David Carr is NOT the problem with this team. He threw for more than 3,000 yards on three-year-old team and helped take them to the cusp of .500. Don't give him better receivers because it won't do him any good if he can't get the ball off before the opposing rush is all over him. The problem on the offense has been the line ever since Boselli failed to pan out. It's that plain and simple. So stop fronting for Vince Young by bashing Carr -- it's as transparent as cellophane.

It's been said many times on this board that 2004 was a 'tale' of two halves(or close to it) for Carr--1st 7 games were great (over 2,000yds) and the last 9 were bad, culminating in the finale game against the Browns. I believe the 'Carr Lovers' and the 'VY Lovers' have similarities, as both see only what they want to see. Carr's destiny is already determined if he fails to live up to expectations, as the "Carr Lovers' will blame the team---never ever, under any circumstance, will these people point a finger at Carr as most will 'fade into the sunset.' Of course, if Carr does good this year, the 'Lovers' will remind us about it every day as long as this forum exists.