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Levi Brown?

Navy_Chris said:
I am 100% against ever drafting an offensive lineman in the first round of a draft. In any draft there is, you can get the same quality in the later rounds. Look at this year's draft in the later rounds: Tony Ugoh, Joe Staley, Brandon Frye, Justin Blalock, possibly Arron Sears...All of these guys can end up being just as good as a Top 15 or 20 OL. It's just wasted money when you draft an OL that high. I'm not trying to say guys like D'Brickashaw, Jamaal Brown and Chris Samuels are bad, I'm just saying that I believe it would be wise to concentrate on another area in the 1st round.
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One more thing, you mentioned Levi Brown at #8 being a tremendous value. You don't draft for value in the 1st Round. You draft the best player available, regardless of need...but, if that player turns out to be a "need", then that's just an added bonus. In my opinion, Levi Brown will be a huge reach...one we can't afford to take.
 
Navy_Chris said:
One more thing, you mentioned Levi Brown at #8 being a tremendous value. You don't draft for value in the 1st Round. You draft the best player available, regardless of need...but, if that player turns out to be a "need", then that's just an added bonus. In my opinion, Levi Brown will be a huge reach...one we can't afford to take.
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is quoting yourself akin to cross-dressing- then you qualify, congratulations :doot:

listen navy chris don't get all semantic on us, value, bpa whatever....remember its all about making the "best football decision", clearly you lack the knowledge to answear that bell..ding, ding :dangit:

the Texans need an injection of leadership. I don't really care where or how as long as it happens. study & learn grasshopper. its all about character, mental toughness, fight & endurance. the last one standing wins. football is won in the trenches. we draft Mario, fine the defensive line has its leader. while the offensive line plunders along like a mash unit on life support & therefore you think you don't invest in the offensive line with elite talent when available? brilliant. I'm sure the three C's full heartedly agree (Casserly, Cappers & Carr). by not addressing this need you've set this franchise back into expansion mode, once again congratulations.

beleive me I've tried to stay off this subject but it just keeps rising like cream to the top, every draft, every year and frankly alot of us are sick & tired of it. I realize my view doesn't amount to diddly squat & the Texans have never listened to their fan base.......but they need to stay the course with Carr & the first m/f need is to invest in his bodyguard, the man responsible for his blind side as well as his blind decision making. for any QB to thrive & exist in this league it takes chemistry, the will & communication that his linemen/bodyguards are there for him, once this happens everything & I mean everything will fall into place.

is that bpa? is that a "tremendous value"? maybe not. but I call it saving the franchise :drunk:
 
I think what Beerlover is trying to say(in my defense...... thanks bro) is when I say "value" I mean Levi should be gone before the 8th pick. If I grade him in the top 5(which I don't know if he is, he might be) and we can get him at 8, then that's great value..... he'll be the best player on my board.

Unless someone I think should be gone at #2 is still on the board.

I'm not Mr. DraftSavy like alot of these guys, I've only started looking at most of these players.

Calvin Johnson, clearly the best player in this draft.

Joe Thomas, Jamaal Anderson, Alan Branch, AD....... then I've got Brown.

Jamarcus is a hell of a prospect. A QB. I would have no problem with him going #1 overall. Even though I don't think he was the best QB of the '06 season. That's the way it goes. QBs are drafted as prospects.

Then you've got to figure in need. to really set the order. then you've got to factor in Free Agency. If Cleveland signs Domonic Rhodes, or somehow gets Michael Turner out of SanDiego, the probability of Peterson falling to 8 goes up quite a bit.
 
thunderkyss said:
If Cleveland signs Domonic Rhodes, or somehow gets Michael Turner out of SanDiego, the probability of Peterson falling to 8 goes up quite a bit.
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Hmmm, I also can warm up to the idea of the Texans making a move for Rhodes in FA. Doing so would kinda like be severing your enemy's leg and then beating him to death with the bloody stump. Ew. Sorry. Maybe that's an exaggeration. But certainly, addressing RB thru FA provides the Texans the draft flexibility to address other holes (OL, CB, safety, d-line, OLB).

I really have a good feeling going into this draft.
 
Levi Brown lifted 31 times (3 better than Thomas) but thats not really whats important. what's important is attitude & love for the game to excell @ the next level along with the physical attributes which is what the combine is all about. here are some highlights from his Combine Transcriptis that I'm sure will warm the hearts of a few Texans fans longing for a true fanchise LT.

"Coach Paterno prepares you for football but also prepares you for
life off the field. He gives you a lot of tools to make you successful
even if you're not.able to make it to that next level, makes you a
better person. He's had a lot of experience with a lot of guys, a lot
of guys come back and talk to us who have played in the NFL. Getting
that perspective from the players' side helps you to know what it takes
and things like that. The coaches there are great coaches. They go and
get advice from NFL coaches and things like that and bring it back to
us and teach us everything it takes. Being an offensive lineman, you
just have to learn attitude. You're not going to get a lot of recognition.
You just have to go out there and dominate every player."

also stated "I'm a great athlete, I love to play the game, I have the ability
to dominate anybody. I do plan on making it to a lot of Pro Bowls in my career."
or this "Just being able to dominate a guy who people say you're not
supposed to beat. You go against a premier defensive end and you take
his will away and at the end of the game he shakes your hand and
says 'You got me today.' That's the type of thing I look forward to."

how about "I do a lot of things well but I can get a lot better at all of them.
I definitely love run blocking more than pass blocking. I like to run
into a guy, knock him on his back, talk a little mess on the way down
and help him up, make it look good. Pass blocking you keep the guy
away from the quarterback, just try to dominate all game."
 
Navy_Chris said:
I am 100% against ever drafting an offensive lineman in the first round of a draft. In any draft there is, you can get the same quality in the later rounds. Look at this year's draft in the later rounds: Tony Ugoh, Joe Staley, Brandon Frye, Justin Blalock, possibly Arron Sears...All of these guys can end up being just as good as a Top 15 or 20 OL. It's just wasted money when you draft an OL that high. I'm not trying to say guys like D'Brickashaw, Jamaal Brown and Chris Samuels are bad, I'm just saying that I believe it would be wise to concentrate on another area in the 1st round.
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Go do the research and tell me that Munchak and Matthews weren't worth the first round picks the then Houston Oilers used on them. In addition they also used a first round pick on Steinkuhler as well. While he hasn't made the Hall of Fame like the other two have, he did help to solidify an outstanding O-Line which led to the Oilers making the playoffs for 7 years in a row. That is what can happen when you are able to identify and are willing and able to spend the picks on top quality O-Linemen.
 
kffl reports brown interviewed with baltimore, miami, STL, NYJ, and Jacksonville on 02/23. didnt see anything about the Texans.
 
David's Busted Carr said:
Recently his stock has seemed to have jumped due to a solid performance at the Senior Bowl (I guess). Now alot of mock drafts have us taking him at #8.

Is this guy a LEGIT BONAFIDE STUD left tackle that will anchor our line for the next 10 years? Or is he just the "next best" after Joe Thomas?

I would hate to waste that high of a pick unless the guy would finally SOLVE our LT problem since there will be so much talent (especially defensively) sitting there at #8...


And to me all of this is awash if Adrian Peterson is available, but it looks more and more like Cleveland will take him and then wait to draft Troy Smith as their QB in round 2 or 3...

Thoughts?
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This guy has stardom written all over him. Still, I am loathed to take an OL in the 1st round. However, given our lack of attention to our OL in years past and the injury to Charles Spencer...we HAVE to take him at #8. He's that good.
 
I don't think I've seen a LT that fits the ZBS as well as Levi Brown does.

When we passed on D'brickshaw last year, I expected it was becuase we were looking for a guy that looked like Levi. But instead we got a guy who was actually bigger than D'brichshaw, and looked like D'brick.
 
thunderkyss said:
I don't think I've seen a LT that fits the ZBS as well as Levi Brown does.

When we passed on D'brickshaw last year, I expected it was becuase we were looking for a guy that looked like Levi. But instead we got a guy who was actually bigger than D'brichshaw, and looked like D'brick.
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I know this is a Levi Brown discussion thread, but when you mentioned the ZBS fit it immediately brought Kalil to mind. I know I shouldn't even think about it because he will almost certainly be gone before the Texans's 2nd Round pick, but I can't help but dream of an O-Line anchored by Brown and Kalil, with the additional possibilities of another O-Lineman drafted later as well and Spencer returning healthy. The O-Line could go from terrible to very good. Then the Texans could start shoving the ball down other teams's throats. :yes:
 
I am beginning to like him more and more.....i think we should focus on defense in fa and offense in the draft......get brown in the first and if kalil is there in the second then get him too... but he just did 34 reps so i doubt he is there in the second rd....
 
amazingandre said:
I am beginning to like him more and more.....i think we should focus on defense in fa and offense in the draft......get brown in the first and if kalil is there in the second then get him too... but he just did 34 reps so i doubt he is there in the second rd....
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Yup a Brown & Kalil draft would put a big smile on my face, but with how Kalil's combine is going and how he looks on film, he isn't dropping out of the first and IMO, might even get into the low 20s. He seems to have everything your looking for in a center, particularly for a ZB scheme.
 
i agree kalil wont be there in the second......there is a really tall guy not sure of his name though......they say he was a day two pick but now he is making himself into a 3rd or 2nd rd pick....anyone know of him or heard that.....id appreciate his name lol
 
amazingandre said:
i agree kalil wont be there in the second......there is a really tall guy not sure of his name though......they say he was a day two pick but now he is making himself into a 3rd or 2nd rd pick....anyone know of him or heard that.....id appreciate his name lol
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I know who you are talking about, he is the guy with the hair, has teeth, speaks those words........:tease:
 
What frustrates me this morning is Tony Ugohs number's compaired to his play at the senior bowl. Maybe it's just a function of playing for a running team. Maybe it's a function of coaching that you can correct in the six months you have with the guy before the season starts. He's a great athlete for sure.

So many o-line guys running near the five oh mark this is a very tallentent o-line group. It's not just the forty itself as Vermiel stated. It's the way they get off the line. It's the grace and movement they demonstrate as they run...I mean Joe thomas has the worst running track form I've ever seen and he stil broke 5.0 . Mix in the cone drills you've got a good idea of the guys that can keep up with the right DE's in the league and those who can't. As beerlover says the proof is in the film, but the guy dosen't have the first step, what you have is a right tackle og gaurd prospect, Not an OLT prospect. The guys around 5.0 have the best shot. There not a lock by any means , but they have the best chance to suceed at the next level. Shame Staley couldn't work out.
 
amazingandre said:
i agree kalil wont be there in the second......there is a really tall guy not sure of his name though......they say he was a day two pick but now he is making himself into a 3rd or 2nd rd pick....anyone know of him or heard that.....id appreciate his name lol
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Yep, that guy put an exlamation point on his body of work today. Going to make it very hard for people at the bottom of the first, top of the second to by pass the guy. I doubt he makes it to us now. Now that guy, not a babins guy...is worth a move up and sacrificing of picks.
 
anyone else listening to sports radio 610 w/John McClain? not a Levi Brown fan at all. says he is a late 1st rd. pick & maybe not even 2nd best tackle available. my question is why year after year when it gets closer to the draft the Texans/media beat down the tackle prospects even though it has been a clear #1 overall need year in & year out?

last year it was D'Brickashaw Ferguson & in 05 Jammal Brown. the Texans (David Carr) has never had a true LT, the duty falls into the lap of a tweener (LG, RT) see Pitts/Spencer, all the time McClain admits their #1 need is a LT. just doesnt make alot of sense to me.

in regards to Brown, his stock is down right now so go ahead & kick him when hes down, I'm sure all these games hes played the last few weeks are really taking their toll :sarcasm: just another football player who will dominate @ the next level but not good enough for :logo: or Mr. John McClain :pigfly:
 
beerlover said:
anyone else listening to sports radio 610 w/John McClain? not a Levi Brown fan at all. says he is a late 1st rd. pick & maybe not even 2nd best tackle available. my question is why year after year when it gets closer to the draft the Texans/media beat down the tackle prospects even though it has been a clear #1 overall need year in & year out?

last year it was D'Brickashaw Ferguson & in 05 Jammal Brown. the Texans (David Carr) has never had a true LT, the duty falls into the lap of a tweener (LG, RT) see Pitts/Spencer, all the time McClain admits their #1 need is a LT. just doesnt make alot of sense to me.

in regards to Brown, his stock is down right now so go ahead & kick him when hes down, I'm sure all these games hes played the last few weeks are really taking their toll :sarcasm: just another football player who will dominate @ the next level but not good enough for :logo: or Mr. John McClain :pigfly:
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Well his stock is falling b/c his forty time was slow. To be honest though that is an issue if your a Texan. Our Line guys really do need to be fast b/c when Carr fumbles the football you need someone fast enough to run them down and save the TD.

McClain I think sometimes gets caught up in the hype, he is drooling all over CJ and I am sure he would like to see us move up to draft Peterson. Brown is the boring pick. I am OK with boring.
 
beerlover said:
anyone else listening to sports radio 610 w/John McClain? not a Levi Brown fan at all. says he is a late 1st rd. pick & maybe not even 2nd best tackle available. my question is why year after year when it gets closer to the draft the Texans/media beat down the tackle prospects even though it has been a clear #1 overall need year in & year out?
last year it was D'Brickashaw Ferguson & in 05 Jammal Brown.
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I'm listening to 610 myself right now, but I don't pay much attention to McClain when it comes to evaluating players.
I don't know what to think of LB ? I'm really looking forward to Rick Gossenlin's
first mock to see where he has Brown, 'cause most of these mockers are about as knowledgeble as McClain and therefor not too reliable.
That got my attention whne they said that Kubiak personally attended Quinns workout in South Bend yesterday ?
Whoa ! What was that remark about Anna-Megan ? Was that McClain ?
 
Based on these evaluations - I would say he should be a good RT - but we need a LT - so I pass in him at #8. But, if we moved down to 11-14 range, then I would take him (as long as Landry was off the board).

From ESPN:

Levi Brown
OT | (6'5", 323, 5.3) | PENN STATE

Scouts Grade: 92

Flags: (D: DURABILITY) Player that can't stay healthy

Strengths: Possesses adequate-to-good height and very good bulk. He displays outstanding quickness and body control for such a big offensive lineman. He has long, thick arms and also has a wide base. He does a good job of coming out of his stance low as a run blocker and he is big enough to engulf most defenders at the point of attack once in position. Does a good job with his first step and consistently takes good angles as a run blocker. Works hard to finish and shows enough of a mean streak. Sets quickly and rarely will get beat by speed off the edge. He displays above average lateral mobility. Also shows awareness to pick up stunts and blitzes in pass pro.

Weaknesses: Still has room to improve in terms of his overall technique. He needs to become more effective with his hand-placement and avoid getting crossed over as much in pass pro. He falls off of blocks occasionally and needs to do a better job of locking on and sustaining. He absorbs defenders at times instead of being aggressive and attacking. He will flash a mean streak occasionally but he also will look mechanical at times, which leads to him losing leverage and balance. He was durable throughout most of his career but minor knee surgery as a senior still generates concern about his durability.

Overall: Brown practiced at defensive tackle in 2002, did not see any action, and was redshirted. He was converted to the offensive line before the 2003 season and became the starting left tackle for all 12 games that year. As a redshirt sophomore in 2004, Brown started 10 games (nine at LOT and one at ROT), missing one game (10/9 vs. Purdue) because of a sprained knee that he sustained vs. Minnesota. He started all 12 games at the left tackle position in 2005. Brown started all 11 of the games he played in as a senior, missing two (Northwestern and Minnesota) as a result of a surgery to repair a torn meniscus in his knee.
Brown is an experienced left tackle prospect that finished his career at Penn State as a four-year starter. He still has room to improve in terms of technique, especially in pass protection. His knee injury as a senior also proved to be a minor setback and could cause him to slip a bit in the upcoming draft. Despite those concerns, we still give Brown a mid-to-late first round grade because of his outstanding combination of size, agility and strength. Furthermore, he had been durable for the three seasons prior to his senior year and his footwork is correctable.


From Footballs Future:
Levi Brown OT 6'5 328 Penn St.
By: Robert Davis
After redshirting in 2002, Brown took over at left tackle for the Nittany Lions in 2003, and has not let the position go since. He started one game at right tackle in 2004, but that was because he was slowed with a knee injury. He returned the left side the following week. Last season as a junior, Brown was named 1st team All Big 10, and landed on a few All American teams. He became a two time All American as a senior, landing on various AA lists after the season.

Levi Brown looks like an excellent right tackle prospect. He has the strong frame, and plays with very good power in the running game. He can dominate at the point of attack, and move defenders off the line. Brown will also finish off run plays by driving his man into the ground. He also shows the ability to keep the defender in front of him in pass protection. Brown may bring quite a bit of versatility. He’s played left tackle in college, and may be able to play there in the NFL. His best spot looks like RT, and his ability as a run blocker could allow him to play inside at guard as well.

Judging him as the left tackle spot he has played in college, Brown may lack the athleticism and agility to be a top notch left tackle at the next level. He may be able to hold his own, but it is something he will have to prove once drafted. As a right tackle however, he appears to be what everyone looks for at the position.

Brown is one of the top senior lineman available for the draft. He may not project the best as the premium left tackle position, but as a right tackle, he may be the best available. He is a legitimate first round talent, and a solid senior season will only cement that position.
 
Any body see Arizona starting to become a trading partner for someone? i dont know who they've shown interest in...besides everybody saying thomas. I think Brown would be an awesome fit at right tackle for matt leinart....if they trade downt hey could get better value for him....maybe AP,BQ, or JR may be there at their spot and look for a partner..if its not too far down...washington is right behind them who needs more picks..so it could be a battle b/w the two.

Arizona Cardinals select RT Levi Brown!! lol
 
From ESPN:

Levi Brown
OT | (6'5", 323, 5.3) | PENN STATE

Scouts Grade: 92

Flags: (D: DURABILITY) Player that can't stay healthy
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then they go on to say-

He was durable throughout most of his career but minor knee surgery as a senior still generates concern about his durability.
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So he missed three games his carrer @ Penn State & they ding him a D for lack of durability? give me a freaking break.

Overall: Brown practiced at defensive tackle in 2002, did not see any action, and was redshirted. He was converted to the offensive line before the 2003 season and became the starting left tackle for all 12 games that year. As a redshirt sophomore in 2004, Brown started 10 games (nine at LOT and one at ROT), missing one game (10/9 vs. Purdue) because of a sprained knee that he sustained vs. Minnesota. He started all 12 games at the left tackle position in 2005. Brown started all 11 of the games he played in as a senior, missing two (Northwestern and Minnesota) as a result of a surgery to repair a torn meniscus in his knee.
Brown is an experienced left tackle prospect that finished his career at Penn State as a four-year starter. He still has room to improve in terms of technique, especially in pass protection. His knee injury as a senior also proved to be a minor setback and could cause him to slip a bit in the upcoming draft. Despite those concerns, we still give Brown a mid-to-late first round grade because of his outstanding combination of size, agility and strength. Furthermore, he had been durable for the three seasons prior to his senior year and his footwork is correctable.
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Is that you John McClain?


From Footballs Future:
Levi Brown OT 6'5 328 Penn St.
By: Robert Davis
After redshirting in 2002, Brown took over at left tackle for the Nittany Lions in 2003, and has not let the position go since.
Click to expand...
 
threetoedpete said:
What frustrates me this morning is Tony Ugohs number's compaired to his play at the senior bowl. Maybe it's just a function of playing for a running team. Maybe it's a function of coaching that you can correct in the six months you have with the guy before the season starts. He's a great athlete for sure.

So many o-line guys running near the five oh mark this is a very tallentent o-line group. It's not just the forty itself as Vermiel stated. It's the way they get off the line. It's the grace and movement they demonstrate as they run...I mean Joe thomas has the worst running track form I've ever seen and he stil broke 5.0 . Mix in the cone drills you've got a good idea of the guys that can keep up with the right DE's in the league and those who can't. As beerlover says the proof is in the film, but the guy dosen't have the first step, what you have is a right tackle og gaurd prospect, Not an OLT prospect. The guys around 5.0 have the best shot. There not a lock by any means , but they have the best chance to suceed at the next level. Shame Staley couldn't work out.
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Does anybody know what Spencer & Winston did at the combine??
 
The Dolphins reportedly "do not think highly" of Penn State left tackle Levi Brown.

Miami are desperate for a left tackle, but not enough to reach for Brown in the top ten. Look for them to address the position in April because their weak in-house options include Vernon Carey, L.J. Shelton, and Anthony Alabi. The Dolphins will meet with former Falcons G Matt Lehr next week.
 
Levi Brown is not worth a top 15 pick.

Only in draft weak at that position does he get pushed up like he is.
 
thunderkyss said:
Wow, that's a great site..... I'd love to be able to save that.

But I see Spencer's 40 time(5.25) & being projected as a guard didn't sway Kubiak in projecting him as a LT... And most of our fans seemed to be happy with him at LT.
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That forty stuff by itself is bogus...

Actually looking at any one aspect by itself is bogus...


If they had drills where they timed a linemans first step for different blocks that would be a hell-uv-a drill. First step is the one that matters to lineman.

Having Quickness out of your stance is probably one of THE most important things.
 
Did you see how you can click on the players name and read up on their history ?
 
thunderkyss said:
Wow, that's a great site..... I'd love to be able to save that.

But I see Spencer's 40 time(5.25) & being projected as a guard didn't sway Kubiak in projecting him as a LT... And most of our fans seemed to be happy with him at LT.
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since when did a tackle have to sprint 40 yards to set up and protect a QB? 40 times are totally overrated. Quick feet, balance and some junk in the trunk is more important than a 40 time.
 
Ole Miss Texan said:
awesome sight....that just reiterates how much Mario was above every other DE. His numbers were simply amazing...i'm in awe.
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Who cares about numbers... I want to see it on the field.

Look at DeMeco. His numbers weren't spectacular, but he's your DROY...

People sometimes get too caught up in numbers IMO...
 
David's Busted Carr said:
Who cares about numbers... I want to see it on the field.

Look at DeMeco. His numbers weren't spectacular, but he's your DROY...

People sometimes get too caught up in numbers IMO...
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over the years of watching people post on message boards I think that some of these guys don't watch as much football as they would like and have to rely on numbers to "evaluate" the players....it doesn't work, but it does create a ton of unintentional humor.
 
David's Busted Carr said:
Look at DeMeco. His numbers weren't spectacular, but he's your DROY...

People sometimes get too caught up in numbers IMO...
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Can't remember the analyst (Kirwan maybe), but one of them does a rating which combines a bunch of the drills. DeMeco may not have been top in any one drill but his combined rating (along with Mario's) was at the very top of the class from last year's draft.

Yes, the numbers can be over analyzed though.
 
Vinny said:
since when did a tackle have to sprint 40 yards to set up and protect a QB? 40 times are totally overrated. Quick feet, balance and some junk in the trunk is more important than a 40 time.
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I totally agree. I was basically saying that to the idea(brought up earlier in this thread) that a Tackle who can't run a sub 5.0 40 is best suited at RT or Guard.
 
Vinny said:
over the years of watching people post on message boards I think that some of these guys don't watch as much football as they would like and have to rely on numbers to "evaluate" the players....it doesn't work, but it does create a ton of unintentional humor.
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excuse me for being impressed by his numbers. He was replying to what i said so I'll take you're reply to him to be somewhat referencing me. He's just simply very strong and athletic.

IMO this is how you should look at combine numbers..or at least I do. They are sorta a bonus...they don't show his potential or leadership or anything on the football field. All it does is show how athletic, quick, and strong the athlete is. It's okay to be impressed with these numbers.

Looking at film is the best way to scout a player to see what he does in certain situations and how he reacts to those plays. I watch plenty of football don't hardly rely on numbers like some people. Stats can be just as disceptive as combine numbers...I think it's humorous when people simply look at stats...and not how the player got those 'stats'.
 
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