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Lets look at the Numbers!

F

Frank_The_Tank

Waterboy
First off, NFL.com has it written that Matt is said to not be running the 40, my guess is because he has 5.0 speed but should that mattter if his arm is extremely accurate and very strong shoot he had better stats his Senior Year than his Jnr Year when he won the hiesman. Regardless, the media wont attack him like they did Young when he was choosing to opt. out of running the 40.

Bush is working out as a reciever ??? I though he was a Running Back??? If Reggie comes out under 200 lbs people are going to have to get realistic about him being a NFL RB.

Truth about Sunday, if both of Reggie (gale sayers) Bush 40's are not below 4.4 I truly feel it is going to hurt his draft status. Ladaninon Tomlinson, the closest comparison to reggie Bush, ran a 4.38 at 5'10 221 lbs thats 20 lbs more than Reggie Bush. Check the facts yourself and while your there look at the recievers and inspect Chad (riverdance) Johnsons stats http://espn.go.com/melkiper/s/2001/0227/1113401.html
If you look at this web site you will also see LT's numbers and you will also see that Vince Young and WR Chad Johnson have something in common they both posted 4.58 40 yrd dash. I guess that should bring some perspective to people questioning Vince Young's 40 being a slow time unless you people think that Chad Johnson is slow. I hope Reggie runs under 4.4 because he has had more time to prepair than any other RB in this draft. If he is able to run 4.35 at 205 to 210 I say he is worthy of #1 pick, if he has to drop down to 190-195 to run 4.35 then he has no chance at RB but could be a good #2 reciever for some team.

T.J. Duckett is the closest comparison as a power back like Lyndale White, T.J. at 250 ran times of 4.45 in the 40 and had a v-jump of 37 with 25 reps at 225. I will set a standard of T.J.'s marks for White. Check my numbers http://www.nfl.com/draft/2002/individual_workouts.html
Oh while on this page check David Carrs number in the 40 4.79 plus evaluate that the year of of Carrs draft and you will see Carr was #1 QB out of probably the most terrible bunch of QB talent to ever come out of a NFL draft at QB! Just the facts!

I hope Reggie comes through, but if he flops, I think we should trade down.
 
Reggie has told the media that he feels its important to be an every down back, and will work on gaining weight. Look.

"He has made a conscious effort to add some bulk to his frame because he knows that is an area of concern for some NFL teams. He is determined to make it less of an issue."

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/9261805

I would expect him to be no less than 210 by August, otherwise yes, it may be a concern.
 
The Truth will come out Sunday! If he comes in under 205 there is going to be trouble. What the guy runs in the 40 at 195 and 205 will not be the same! Clinton Portis was a small back in Denver, and they traded his behind! I don't think Kubiak wants to take that route again. Bush has to be 205 or heaver and under 4.4. If he does, he earns that top pick, if he does not I say trade down!
 
Crazy4Texas said:
First off, NFL.com has it written that Matt is said to not be running the 40, my guess is because he has 5.0 speed but should that mattter if his arm is extremely accurate and very strong shoot he had better stats his Senior Year than his Jnr Year when he won the hiesman. Regardless, the media wont attack him like they did Young when he was choosing to opt. out of running the 40.

Bush is working out as a reciever ??? I though he was a Running Back??? If Reggie comes out under 200 lbs people are going to have to get realistic about him being a NFL RB.

Truth about Sunday, if both of Reggie (gale sayers) Bush 40's are not below 4.4 I truly feel it is going to hurt his draft status. Ladaninon Tomlinson, the closest comparison to reggie Bush, ran a 4.38 at 5'10 221 lbs thats 20 lbs more than Reggie Bush. Check the facts yourself and while your there look at the recievers and inspect Chad (riverdance) Johnsons stats http://espn.go.com/melkiper/s/2001/0227/1113401.html
If you look at this web site you will also see LT's numbers and you will also see that Vince Young and WR Chad Johnson have something in common they both posted 4.58 40 yrd dash. I guess that should bring some perspective to people questioning Vince Young's 40 being a slow time unless you people think that Chad Johnson is slow. I hope Reggie runs under 4.4 because he has had more time to prepair than any other RB in this draft. If he is able to run 4.35 at 205 to 210 I say he is worthy of #1 pick, if he has to drop down to 190-195 to run 4.35 then he has no chance at RB but could be a good #2 reciever for some team.

T.J. Duckett is the closest comparison as a power back like Lyndale White, T.J. at 250 ran times of 4.45 in the 40 and had a v-jump of 37 with 25 reps at 225. I will set a standard of T.J.'s marks for White. Check my numbers http://www.nfl.com/draft/2002/individual_workouts.html
Oh while on this page check David Carrs number in the 40 4.79 plus evaluate that the year of of Carrs draft and you will see Carr was #1 QB out of probably the most terrible bunch of QB talent to ever come out of a NFL draft at QB! Just the facts!

I hope Reggie comes through, but if he flops, I think we should trade down.
Click to expand...

There's a different reason for people being upset about VY not planning to run. If he is a running QB, people want to see how he runs. Leinart is not going to be running around. He's not Steve Young.

Bush is training as a WR to show his versatility. If the Moulds comes to the Texans, they could split Bush wide on some plays and that's a pretty solid WR corps. He won't be under 200 pounds.
 
Crazy4Texas said:
Bush is working out as a reciever ??? I though he was a Running Back??? If Reggie comes out under 200 lbs people are going to have to get realistic about him being a NFL RB.
Click to expand...


Bush is doing receiving and running back drills tomorrow.

I guess people have not told Warrick Dunn that he is too small to play in the NFL because he is well under 200 lbs and is one of the top running backs in the league.
 
gg no re said:
Warrick Dunn wasn't looking to earn the #1 draft pick.
Click to expand...
That's completely irrelevant. Dunn never won a Heisman or two National Championships either. Also irrelevant.

What is relevant is that running backs the size of Reggie Bush (not just Dunn, either) have succeeded very well in the NFL, and without the escapability and speed of Bush. How big was Walter Payton? Didn't he turn out pretty much okay? LaDainian Tomlinson is about Bush's size. Is LT too small to be effective?
 
bad said:
That's completely irrelevant. Dunn never won a Heisman or two National Championships either. Also irrelevant.

What is relevant is that running backs the size of Reggie Bush (not just Dunn, either) have succeeded very well in the NFL, and without the escapability and speed of Bush. How big was Walter Payton? Didn't he turn out pretty much okay? LaDainian Tomlinson is about Bush's size. Is LT too small to be effective?
Click to expand...
You missed the entire point of my post.

Do you need me to provide you with some Cliff notes to explain what message I was trying to communicate?
 
O.K. Warrick Dunn has had 4 seasons with 1000 + yards out of HMMM 9 years, sorry that is not TOP BACK numbers! He plays on a team where a majority of the focus is on the stopping the most electrifying QB in the game not the 5'7 180 Running Back. I am not nocking the guy, he is a good running back for ATL but people do not expect him to be (The Next Gale Sayers). The set up he has in ATL is night and day compared to the Texans. Portis was the one inch taller and weighed the same as Bush did at the combine and Kubiak and Co. traded his butt.
LT is alot like Reggie Bush except he has 20 LBS more muscle, which will play into it when people are selecting a #1 overall. I hope Reggie runs 4.35 and comes in close to 210. He should he has had plenty of time to bulk up and he has had more time to train for his first evaluation than any other player that is not from USC in this draft. I am just saying that if the guy was given this much time, he has had coaches and scouts tell him he needs to add weight and he comes out Sunday and weighs 190-195 or even 200 like he was at the combine, a Red Flag will come out and every one in this message board should be prepaired not to have their hearts brocken if the Texans choose to go another direction and trade down.
 
Shaun Alexander 5’11 235 6year starter 5 1000 yrd seasons
Clinton Portis 5’11 212 4 year starter 4 1000 yrd seasons
Larry Johnson 6’1 230 1 year starter 1 1000 yrd season
Edgerrin James 6’1 214 7 year starter 6 1000 yrd seasons
LaDainian Tomlinson 5’10 221 5 year starter 5 1000 yrd seasons
Reuben Droughs 5’11 215 2 year starter 2 1000 yrd seasons
Rudi Johnson 5’10 225 3 year starter 2 1000 yrd seasons one at 957
Willis McGahee 6’0 228 2 year starter 2 1000 yrd seasons
Domanick Davis 5’9 221 3 year starter 2 1000 yrd seasons one at 976
Jamal Lewis 5'11 240 5 year starter 4 1000 yrd seasons one at 905 (after prison)
Tiki Barber 5’10 200 9 year starter 5 1000 yrd seasons

NOTE Mike Vick is 6’0 215

Reggie bush 5’10 200 If he comes in at 5'10 210, 4.35 I will think he is worth the first pick, anything under 208 or above 4.40 in the 40 and we are waisting our time and money.
 
Barry Sanders 5’7 210.
Emmit Smith 5’9 215.
Walter Payton 5’10 205 and played when DT average size was 6’3 225-250 not 6’5 300 and moving at 4.9. Facts are facts.

Reggie Bush 5’10 200 If he is going to play like these guys he has the potential, to make it enough years to put up their numbers he needs to add 15 lbs of solid muscle. To make it out of pre-season he will have to gain 10. Do not kid yourself people, every light back that came out in the past two years have had injury problems and he will be no different. NFL lbs run 4.5 at 240-260 and they crush small backs. Warrick Dunn and Tiki Barber have been injury prone their whole careers and to kid yourself and think Bush is any different is just plain foolish. 10 years ago I say playing under 200 is not an issue, these days I say call the Doc. and have the stretcher ready. I sure hope he is at least 208 Sunday.
 
Portis got traded cause they knew he could be replaced but that they couldn't just get the best CB in the NFL that easliy, so they traded him not cause hes small or nething
 
Crazy4Texas said:
Barry Sanders 5’7 210.
Emmit Smith 5’9 215.
Walter Payton 5’10 205 and played when DT average size was 6’3 225-250 not 6’5 300 and moving at 4.9. Facts are facts.

Reggie Bush 5’10 200 If he is going to play like these guys he has the potential, to make it enough years to put up their numbers he needs to add 15 lbs of solid muscle. To make it out of pre-season he will have to gain 10. Do not kid yourself people, every light back that came out in the past two years have had injury problems and he will be no different. NFL lbs run 4.5 at 240-260 and they crush small backs. Warrick Dunn and Tiki Barber have been injury prone their whole careers and to kid yourself and think Bush is any different is just plain foolish. 10 years ago I say playing under 200 is not an issue, these days I say call the Doc. and have the stretcher ready. I sure hope he is at least 208 Sunday.
Click to expand...

Would you pass up the next Barry Sanders because of possible injuries? Never. It's a part of the game. He just needs to take it easy next year and watch DD, who has a lot of solid muscle in him. As I posted already, Bush is open to increasing his size because he knows it is important. He will never be able to push it up the middle, as far as im concerned. But DD is relatively young, and I don't see us giving him up anytime soon. With DD on 3rd and 3's, and Bush on 1st and 10's, we can move the chains with relative ease.
 
Heck no! do not take it easy! I want us another ROY of there year. then my teamsll b 3 for 4 in ROY of the last 4 years.
 
YodAa said:
Heck no! do not take it easy! I want us another ROY of there year. then my teamsll b 3 for 4 in ROY of the last 4 years.
Click to expand...

Haha. By "take it easy", of course, I only meant that he should limit the number of 76 yarders that he breaks in every game :cool:
 
Crazy4Texas said:
O.K. Warrick Dunn has had 4 seasons with 1000 + yards out of HMMM 9 years, sorry that is not TOP BACK numbers! He plays on a team where a majority of the focus is on the stopping the most electrifying QB in the game not the 5'7 180 Running Back. I am not nocking the guy, he is a good running back for ATL but people do not expect him to be (The Next Gale Sayers). The set up he has in ATL is night and day compared to the Texans. Portis was the one inch taller and weighed the same as Bush did at the combine and Kubiak and Co. traded his butt.
LT is alot like Reggie Bush except he has 20 LBS more muscle, which will play into it when people are selecting a #1 overall. I hope Reggie runs 4.35 and comes in close to 210. He should he has had plenty of time to bulk up and he has had more time to train for his first evaluation than any other player that is not from USC in this draft. I am just saying that if the guy was given this much time, he has had coaches and scouts tell him he needs to add weight and he comes out Sunday and weighs 190-195 or even 200 like he was at the combine, a Red Flag will come out and every one in this message board should be prepaired not to have their hearts brocken if the Texans choose to go another direction and trade down.
Click to expand...

What if? He weighed over 200lbs at combine. He will show his speed and agility at his pro day. The fact he wants to do drills at WR just shows his versatility. IMO, Bush will prove his worth. Even if he doesn't , I wouldn't mind Mario Williams.

I believe you're in the VY camp....putting down Bush and Carr....that's fine,we will have to agree to disagree.

Either way, Texans will come out winners; they will get an impact player in draft....thanks to very good FA season,Texans will be able to target contributors to their team.
 
Crazy4Texas said:
First off, NFL.com has it written that Matt is said to not be running the 40, my guess is because he has 5.0 speed but should that mattter if his arm is extremely accurate and very strong shoot he had better stats his Senior Year than his Jnr Year when he won the hiesman. Regardless, the media wont attack him like they did Young when he was choosing to opt. out of running the 40.

Bush is working out as a reciever ??? I though he was a Running Back??? If Reggie comes out under 200 lbs people are going to have to get realistic about him being a NFL RB.

Truth about Sunday, if both of Reggie (gale sayers) Bush 40's are not below 4.4 I truly feel it is going to hurt his draft status. Ladaninon Tomlinson, the closest comparison to reggie Bush, ran a 4.38 at 5'10 221 lbs thats 20 lbs more than Reggie Bush. Check the facts yourself and while your there look at the recievers and inspect Chad (riverdance) Johnsons stats http://espn.go.com/melkiper/s/2001/0227/1113401.html
If you look at this web site you will also see LT's numbers and you will also see that Vince Young and WR Chad Johnson have something in common they both posted 4.58 40 yrd dash. I guess that should bring some perspective to people questioning Vince Young's 40 being a slow time unless you people think that Chad Johnson is slow. I hope Reggie runs under 4.4 because he has had more time to prepair than any other RB in this draft. If he is able to run 4.35 at 205 to 210 I say he is worthy of #1 pick, if he has to drop down to 190-195 to run 4.35 then he has no chance at RB but could be a good #2 reciever for some team.

T.J. Duckett is the closest comparison as a power back like Lyndale White, T.J. at 250 ran times of 4.45 in the 40 and had a v-jump of 37 with 25 reps at 225. I will set a standard of T.J.'s marks for White. Check my numbers http://www.nfl.com/draft/2002/individual_workouts.html
Oh while on this page check David Carrs number in the 40 4.79 plus evaluate that the year of of Carrs draft and you will see Carr was #1 QB out of probably the most terrible bunch of QB talent to ever come out of a NFL draft at QB! Just the facts!

I hope Reggie comes through, but if he flops, I think we should trade down.
Click to expand...


Dude I agree with every point you made. Bush is a product of ESPN's hype machine. It's crazy to watch! First, they convinced the world that Reggie Bush is the second comin' of gale sayers, than they convinced us that he is the best player in college football. I'm not sure he's the best player on his own team. Did you see the Rose Bowl, Bush wasn't even the best player on that field. And when the game was on the line Bush was doing the same thing I was doing, standing on the sideline watching LW running into the UT defense...

Vince Young was clearly the best player in the Rose Bowl. And is clearly the best player in the draft. However, I must admit that I am impressed with the power of ESPN and others, who can convinced the public that what they saw at the Rose Bowl wasn't correct. I love reading all these clowns of this board and else where that try to sell to me that Matt L. is the best QB or the highest rated QB in college football when in fact he wasn't even the best QB on the field in the Rose Bowl. I don't care what the experts say. This is all so-real, I watched a game and clearly see one thing and than over next couple of months these experts try to convince me at what I saw wasn't real. That's crazy! Well now, I from Texas, and in Texas we've a saying, if it walks like a duck and it talks like a duck than by George, it must be a duck. In my own eyes I trust. Bush isn't the best player in draft. Bush maybe the best fit for the Texan, because I'm sure they feel that he could help them turn things around sooner, but don't try to convince me otherwise. The bottonline in the NFL is winning. I get that. It is a game. Your opponent sits opposite you. You play with a strategy and you observe your opponent's moves with as much calmness as you can muster: In the end, you try to out smart you opponent, you try to build the better mouse trap. You try to win the prize. The SuperBowl! Right? If that's the case I hope the Texan' FO do the right think and make the best pick.

I don't think it is a good idea to pass on the best QB prospect that I'd seemed to 25 years. I'm not saying that ML and RB aren't great players and wouldn't do well at the next level, I just wish the Texan take the best player in the draft, and VY is clearly that player.

More importantly, I wish the draft experts on this board would stop trying to convinced me that Bush is our savior (err the BPA) and that what I saw at the Rose Bowl was just was essentially case of unrational thinking.

:yahoo:
 
gg no re said:
You missed the entire point of my post.

Do you need me to provide you with some Cliff notes to explain what message I was trying to communicate?
Click to expand...
Your post consisted of one sentence. Eight words and a number.

It WAS a Cliff's Note.
 
My whole purpose of this thread is not to trash Reggie Bush, the kid is awsome at the collegent level, I was staiting the facts, if the kid has not put on 8 to 10 lbs since the combine, I say he is not worthy of the first pick. Young worked his butt off getting ready, training with three five and seven step dropps and rollouts. He performed like a champ, and had way less time to prep than Reggie Bush. He did not train for the 40 and posted a fast time, made great throws. Reggie has had time to work on his 40, lift and do agility drills. He came to the combine at 5'10 201, and coaches made complaints about his size. Every consistantly good RB in the NFL is at least 215 but on average around 223. If you people think that his size does not matter, its all about his speed look at Michael Bennet. He is to small 5'10 200, he is faster than Reggie Bush, he is super fast heck he qualified for the Olympics in the 100 meters, but his downfall is he is always geting hurt. Reggie will be the same way if he does not put on the muscle. My concern is how much slower will he be carrying that extra weight. If it slows him to a 4.45 to a 4.55 then he might be good in the NFL but worthy of a first choice pick to a team that has established running back and recievers, I say no way trade down! Dom Davis is a good NFL running back.
 
Tony Dorsett
Marshall Faulk
Barry Sanders
Gale Sayers
Walter Payton
Tiki Barber

Just to name a few.


Bottom line people. (read this closely, since so many people cant comprehend this). His size is not an issue. There have been plenty examples of running backs around his size succeeding in the NFL with NO problems. Whether or not Reggie will be as successful as those backs remains to be seen, but he is not handicapped because of his size. He is also NOT more prone to injury because of his size. Well, actually, im sure from a logical standpoint he is more prone to injury.. but there are plenty of backs around his size that do not get injured often. It has more to do with his personal durability, which he seems to have in spades.

You people really need to get off this whole size issue.
 
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