Let’s Talk Receivers

[rmartin65]

I am surprised this topic has not come up yet in the College Football/Draft part of the board.

If the injury to Walter has shown us anything, it is that the Texans are not as strong at receiver as we had hoped. AJ is a stud- no doubt. But the guys below him on the depth chart leave something to be desired. Let’s take a look:

1) AJ- All-pro, best WR in the league
2) Kevin Walter- Decent #2, good blocker, good hands. A great guy to have on the team, but is already 30, and has seen is stats decline since 08/09.
3) JJ- Arguably the most divisive player on the team among the fans, JJ has the talent, but has not yet proven himself to be a starting NFL receiver due to problems with fumbles and drops. Provides value on returns.
4) Bryant Johnson- Late FA pickup that is nothing but depth.
5) DA- He’s back, to both cheers and boos. Picks up first downs, but is nothing more than a 4th/5th receiver.

PS/IR
Jeff Maehl- UDFA that brings shades of a more athletic DA, Maehl has the body control and hands to possibly become a number 2 or 3 receiver, but it is far from a sure deal.
LeStar Jean- UDFA that impressed in training camp. In my opinion, he was placed on IR to protect him for the next TC. Looked great in TC, but 2 facts cannot be forgotten; 1) Went undrafted, and 2) did not make the team out of TC.

What do you all think? It is an impressive year for receiver, if you are GM of the Texans, do you grab a guy in the first 3 rounds? Or do you grab one later, and hope for a late diamond in the rough steps up and/or JJ, Jean, or Maehl take the next step?

Personally, I am looking to draft a receiver in the 2nd or 3rd round. Allow me to make the case for Oklahoma WR Ryan Broyles:

Career Stats:

2008: 46 rec, 687 yards (14.9 ypr), 6 TD, 77 long
2009: 89 rec, 1120 yards (12.6 ypr), 15 TD, 51 long
2010: 131 rec, 1622 yards (12.4 ypr), 14 TD, 81 long
Close to 1000 career PR yards and 2 scores

While Broyles stands just 5'11" 190 lbs, he exhibits great body control, and the most important quality a WR must posses: hands. I cannot remember seeing him drop a pass (although I am sure it has happened). His agility and route running ability allow him to get open on any route, and allows him to extend plays after the catch. The best part about Broyles, is that he can play in the slot and outside, as well as the fact that he will be available near the bottom of the first due to the bevy of talented receivers, and the aforementioned size coupled with solid, but not outstanding, speed (estimated 4.50-4.55 40 time).

 

[Ole Miss Texan]

I think we'll be picking late 1st round and look right now for a STUD NT, ILB or WR. If we go WR, I really like Jeff Fuller out of Texas A&M. Perfect compliment to Andre Johnson - big, tough, physical receiver.

Nice "analysis" clip showing some positives and negatives against Oklahoma, Texas and LSU (not a highlight video). Looks to me like he beat Patrick Peterson (#7) the majority of the time!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RPvwk8Wu7Y

 

[kiwitexansfan]

I think we'd want to go defense early and often.

DT, ILB, S.... I would love a genuine shut down cb too

I'd even put G ahead of WR to be honest.

 

[Dutchrudder]

I think we'd want to go defense early and often.

DT, ILB, S.... I would love a genuine shut down cb too

I'd even put G ahead of WR to be honest.

I would really like to see a Center over a Guard, but they are somewhat interchangeable. As for the OP's request about WR's, Michael Floyd out of ND looks great and he may be there at 32... Fuller would be my favorite as I am an Aggie. Justin Blackmon would be my absolute number 1 WR, but I doubt he falls out of the top 10. Alshon Jeffery out of SC is supposedly a top 10 pick, but I'm not sure if he warrants it.

 

[kiwitexansfan]

Myers is actually really highly regarded, most have forgotten him getting abused by Jenkins.

Our G situation is much more troublesome, with no real quality there.

 

[Wolf6151]

I can see the need for improved depth at WR but like Kiwi I think we have to many defensive holes and/or depth needs that have been ignored for far to long and need to be addressed. I also think it takes more than one draft/offseason to make the total change to a 3-4 defense. I see needs at NT, CB, FS/SS depth, OLB depth, ILB depth, DE depth, OG/C depth, and then WR depth. I also think that since AJ and JJ just got new contracts, and KW and OD got new/extended deals last year that we have alot of money tied up in pass catchers and can see this being a money issue. The Texans probably wouldn't want to tie up 1st round money on a WR who won't play because others making more money will play, unless we trade KW and/or OD and I don't see that happening. I think at least our first 2 picks should go to defense but could see a 3rd round pick being used on a WR. I can actually see the Texans being in a BPA situation next year depending on the play or injury of several key positions like CB, ILB, and NT. If we were to take a 3rd round WR, I prefer the tall athletic type. Examples: Juron Criner-Arizona, Dwight Jones-NC, or Marvin McNutt-Iowa.

What happened to Terrance Toliver-WR, I had high hopes for him?

 

[Dutchrudder]

Myers is actually really highly regarded, most have forgotten him getting abused by Jenkins.

Our G situation is much more troublesome, with no real quality there.

Yeah, but we don't even have a backup center on the roster, just guards that can play center too. If Meyers goes down, we may be in trouble.

 

[Section516]

Would love a WR, handle the situation like GB did with Donald Driver/Greg Jennings.

 

[XI CMURDER IX]

Any good tight ends this year?

 

[Mr teX]

I think we'll be picking late 1st round and look right now for a STUD NT, ILB or WR. If we go WR, I really like Jeff Fuller out of Texas A&M. Perfect compliment to Andre Johnson - big, tough, physical receiver.

Nice "analysis" clip showing some positives and negatives against Oklahoma, Texas and LSU (not a highlight video). Looks to me like he beat Patrick Peterson (#7) the majority of the time!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RPvwk8Wu7Y

bingo. fuller is my guy if we go WR in the 1st. I like Broyles, but dude is always nicked up.

 

[rmartin65]

bingo. fuller is my guy if we go WR in the 1st. I like Broyles, but dude is always nicked up.

Interesting, since, if my internet research is correct, Broyles has never missed a came at Oklahoma, while Fuller missed 4 games last year. To the best of my knowledge, Broyles does not have an injury history.

 

[Dutchrudder]

Interesting, since, if my internet research is correct, Broyles has never missed a came at Oklahoma, while Fuller missed 4 games last year. To the best of my knowledge, Broyles does not have an injury history.

Yeah, Fuller has had some injuries. He has a hamstring issue right now, similar to what Arian Foster is going through, but for some reason they continue to play Fuller. I was really pissed off that Fuller was still getting catches in the 4th quarter of the SMU game. Absolutely ridiculous to have him out there when you're up by 4 TD's. I hope the extra week of rest helps him recoup.

 

[rmartin65]

Yeah, Fuller has had some injuries. He has a hamstring issue right now, similar to what Arian Foster is going through, but for some reason they continue to play Fuller. I was really pissed off that Fuller was still getting catches in the 4th quarter of the SMU game. Absolutely ridiculous to have him out there when you're up by 4 TD's. I hope the extra week of rest helps him recoup.

Yeah, that was a dumb move. I really like Fuller, and would not be angry if he is the pick. I simply prefer Broyles because I think he brings better value in the 2nd than Fuller in the 1st. A draft of Ta'amu/Broyles or Burfict/Broyles would make me scream like a little girl.

 

[Mr teX]

Interesting, since, if my internet research is correct, Broyles has never missed a came at Oklahoma, while Fuller missed 4 games last year. To the best of my knowledge, Broyles does not have an injury history.

being nicked up doesnt necessarily mean he's been missing games. nevertheless, i know a few years back he fractured his shoulder or arm or something b/c he was wearing this "robo-arm" sling thing all year & it seems like every time i watch them, his little ass (5'9, 180 lbs) is always battling through a strained ankle or wrist or something; maybe it just seems that way to me.

in any event, i doubt the texans look at him in the 1st b/c of his stature..u know kubes needs his wr's to be able to block for the running game...all our wr's are behemoths compared to broyles. Fuller fits that mold to a tee & has the potential to blossom into a 1b type option behind AJ.

 

[rmartin65]

being nicked up doesnt necessarily mean he's been missing games. nevertheless, i know a few years back he fractured his shoulder or arm or something b/c he was wearing this "robo-arm" sling thing all year & it seems like every time i watch them, his little ass (5'9, 180 lbs) is always battling through a strained ankle or wrist or something; maybe it just seems that way to me.

in any event, i doubt the texans look at him in the 1st b/c of his stature..u know kubes needs his wr's to be able to block for the running game...

I had forgotten about the sling. But the fact remains, he played and produced with it.

I never said to take Broyles in the first; I said he is an ideal candidate for the second round.

 

[Mr teX]

I had forgotten about the sling. But the fact remains, he played and produced with it.

I never said to take Broyles in the first; I said he is an ideal candidate for the second round.

yeah he did, but the hits will only get harder in the nfl & i wouldn't feel comfortable with the texans taking him that early simply b/c he's not really special in any way as WR. he's not a speedster & he's not a physical freak & i dont see a ton of potential for him to become a star. The first & second rounds are reserved for those type guys.

 

[rmartin65]

yeah he did, but the hits will only get harder in the nfl & i wouldn't feel comfortable with the texans taking him that early simply b/c he's not really special in any way as WR. he's not a speedster & he's not a physical freak & i dont see a ton of potential for him to become a star. The first & second rounds are reserved for those type guys.

I see what you are saying, but I have to disagree on a couple points.

1) Predicting injuries is nigh impossible. Sure, you dock prospects for stuff like ligament tears and concussions, but Broyles has no history of that. Injuries happen to players, big and small. Take Bennie Joppru for example. Perfect size for a TE, and no history of injuries in college. However, he never played a down in the NFL. Injuries happen, and you cant be paralyzed over-analyzing potential injury risk.

2) You are right in that is rather average height and weight for a receiver, as well as the fact that Broyles possesses very average speed for the position. However, speed is not everything. He exhibits an above average step off the snap, and has excellent body control. I really think that those two aspects are equal to, if not more important than, speed. They allow Broyles to get open on virtually any route on the tree.

3) And again, I agree that Broyles will not become a star, meaning I dont see him being a number 1 receiver in the pros. I do see him being a number 2 receiver that can operate on the outside or in the slot, that any team in the league would love to have. And that IS worth a second round pick. In my mind, the first round is where you shoot for a star, or a top 5 player at his position. In the second and third rounds you look for potential starters at positions of need. And in the 4-7th you are looking for players that can stick on the roster and contribute in the coming years. Anything extra is gravy. Of course there are exemptions, such as project players, but that is how I evaluate prospects and the draft.

 

[aussie_texan]

Michael Floyd all the way. His just as talented as blackmon but has had the off-field troubles. His started so well this year ... man on a mission i think!

Its hard to tell what are our needs so early in the season but WR should definitely be addressed at least in the first 3rounds.

ATM we have issues at DT, ILB depth, DE depth and S depth.

Maybe its the Koolaid but i don't think we will need any more picks at CB.

 

[bah007]

Blackmon and Jeffery are both top 20 picks so I wouldn't even begin to get excited about them. I don't see us picking that high (hopefully). I think Floyd sneaks into the first round, but I don't know if I want to use a first on a WR.

In round 2, I like Jeff Fuller and Juron Criner. I have Broyles in the second round as well, but I don't like him that much for us. He'll be a good NFL player, but somewhere else.

In round 3, I'm looking at Greg Childs from Arkansas.

In round 4, I like Damarlo Belcher from Indiana.

There are other guys I like, but those are my favorites.

 

[kiwitexansfan]

Yeah, but we don't even have a backup center on the roster, just guards that can play center too. If Meyers goes down, we may be in trouble.

Wasn't Caldwell a fulltime C in college?

I think he is getting time at G here because Myers is much better than Briesel or Smith.

Oh, sorry, WR blah blah blah. Not meaning to side track the thread.

 

[rmartin65]

Blackmon and Jeffery are both top 20 picks so I wouldn't even begin to get excited about them. I don't see us picking that high (hopefully). I think Floyd sneaks into the first round, but I don't know if I want to use a first on a WR.

In round 2, I like Jeff Fuller and Juron Criner. I have Broyles in the second round as well, but I don't like him that much for us. He'll be a good NFL player, but somewhere else.

In round 3, I'm looking at Greg Childs from Arkansas.

In round 4, I like Damarlo Belcher from Indiana.

There are other guys I like, but those are my favorites.

Agreed on Blackmon, Jeffery and Floyd.

However, do you think Fuller will be available at the bottom of the second? Or are you thinking a trade up? I dont really know enough about Criner; he is one of those players I really want to watch this season. I do know that he has nice size and attacks the ball in the air well, but that is about it. He has a history of injuries though right? What kind of injuries were they?

I will say that I dislike Childs. He has never reached 1000 yards receiving or gotten over 7 TDs in a season, even though he played the last 2 years with one of the best QBs in the NCAA. He has good size and speed, but I just dont see him as anything more than a 3rd receiver/red zone kind of guy.

 

[bah007]

Agreed on Blackmon, Jeffery and Floyd.

However, do you think Fuller will be available at the bottom of the second? Or are you thinking a trade up? I dont really know enough about Criner; he is one of those players I really want to watch this season. I do know that he has nice size and attacks the ball in the air well, but that is about it. He has a history of injuries though right? What kind of injuries were they?

I will say that I dislike Childs. He has never reached 1000 yards receiving or gotten over 7 TDs in a season, even though he played the last 2 years with one of the best QBs in the NCAA. He has good size and speed, but I just dont see him as anything more than a 3rd receiver/red zone kind of guy.

Fuller would have to be in a trade up. I'm pretty certain that he is going in the top 40-50 picks.

Criner has never missed a game up until this season. There were rumors about cancer or something in the offseason, but I've never discovered the real story. He ended up playing in the opener, but then missed the Oklahoma St game because he had his appendix removed. I'm not sure what kind of impact that makes on his future.

I see your point on Childs. The WR talent in this draft really drops off after the second round, so I think anybody you take is going to have some sort of issue. I like Childs' size and athleticism, and that he has played in an offense that runs a pro style route tree. His low numbers could be attributed to the fact that Arkansas has so many other talented WRs, but a NFL talent should still be able to produce in that offense. I'll be watching him more as the season goes on.

 

[beerlover]

If Texans covet Broyles they would need to select him early. I would love to see them trade down a little, begin stock-piling picks ala Belichick, & make sound draft selections leveraging value, which if taken end of 1st/early 2nd Broyles would be an excellent catch. I think he is also a decent blocker with sound fundamentals, he would be someone Kubiak would demand & fight for in the war room.

 

[rmartin65]

Fuller would have to be in a trade up. I'm pretty certain that he is going in the top 40-50 picks.

Criner has never missed a game up until this season. There were rumors about cancer or something in the offseason, but I've never discovered the real story. He ended up playing in the opener, but then missed the Oklahoma St game because he had his appendix removed. I'm not sure what kind of impact that makes on his future.

I see your point on Childs. The WR talent in this draft really drops off after the second round, so I think anybody you take is going to have some sort of issue. I like Childs' size and athleticism, and that he has played in an offense that runs a pro style route tree. His low numbers could be attributed to the fact that Arkansas has so many other talented WRs, but a NFL talent should still be able to produce in that offense. I'll be watching him more as the season goes on.

Ah, gotcha. I agree with your placement of Fuller. Any other year I would have him ranked higher, but I just cant see 4 receivers going in the first.

You are right on Criner as well, I just looked it up. If it is just soreness after getting his appendix removed, that should not impact his draft positioning. That is a one time deal. He is definitely one I want to watch.

If Texans covet Broyles they would need to select him early. I would love to see them trade down a little, begin stock-piling picks ala Belichick, & make sound draft selections leveraging value, which if taken end of 1st/early 2nd Broyles would be an excellent catch. I think he is also a decent blocker with sound fundamentals, he would be someone Kubiak would demand & fight for in the war room.

Do you see Broyles going before the Texans pick in the second? I have him ranked 5th (after Blackmon, Jeffery, Floyd and Fuller), but a couple other guys may interest teams before Broyles. Guys like the aforementioned Criner and Childs, Toons from Wisconsin, Kearse from Washington, and Jones from UNC. Those 5 guys are more of the "prototypical" size being 6'2" plus and having equal speed to Broyles.

 

[badboy]

WR vs NT is my conundrum this year and I hope JJ steps up and relieves me. I still go Jeff Fuller who is bigger 6'3 (or 4") and similar to AJ imo. Stats very similar to Broyles who I like as a 2nd. 40 speed 4.42 http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=82682&draftyear=2012&genpos=WR


http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/_/id/378013/jeff-fuller


Here is my thought for today: Fuller could be a #1 WR and therefore opposite AJ would be best #2 in NFL (ok maybe not but you get my point).

Problem is we are going to need a Nose and there are ain't but one again imo and there are more than adequate #2 WR choices later in draft as 65 points out.

I ain't using a first round pick on a back up linebacker. I'll use a later round for that.

 

[beerlover]

Ah, gotcha. I agree with your placement of Fuller. Any other year I would have him ranked higher, but I just cant see 4 receivers going in the first.

You are right on Criner as well, I just looked it up. If it is just soreness after getting his appendix removed, that should not impact his draft positioning. That is a one time deal. He is definitely one I want to watch.



Do you see Broyles going before the Texans pick in the second? I have him ranked 5th (after Blackmon, Jeffery, Floyd and Fuller), but a couple other guys may interest teams before Broyles. Guys like the aforementioned Criner and Childs, Toons from Wisconsin, Kearse from Washington, and Jones from UNC. Those 5 guys are more of the "prototypical" size being 6'2" plus and having equal speed to Broyles.

Heck yeah I do, kid is the complete #2 package & would fit Kubiaks system to a tee. In fact I see some redundancy with Fuller whereas Broyles would be like Wes Welker or Hines Ward complementing Andre, creating new windows for Schaub to target utilizing explosiveness & disciplined routes. I usually say early 2nd but you know just as well, these things can creep up higher than you think (depending on need which you made a solid case already for) doesn't hurt either that OU has one heck of a team to showcase his talents in national market.

 

[c10x]

Still too early in the season for me to know who I want.

Here's what I know about the 2012 draft so far.

(1) Please please please do not let Andrew Luck end up in our division. Put him in the NFC please. Anywhere.

(2) The Texans do not have any obvious holes. NT, ILB, S, interior OL, WR. Those are the spots right now that look the thinnest/weakest, but it's still week 1.

(3) If we end up addressing WR in rounds 1 or 2, I'd like it to be with a size guy. Floyd or Fuller, or someone yet to break out. We are a ball control, run the rock type offense, and frankly we don't need a big play guy. We need a box out the cb, get the 1st down or get the jump ball in the end zone guy. I think that is what Kubiak wants out of his offense, so the Philips defense can be as well rested throughout the game as possible.

 

[badboy]

Heck yeah I do, kid is the complete #2 package & would fit Kubiaks system to a tee. In fact I see some redundancy with Fuller whereas Broyles would be like Wes Welker or Hines Ward complementing Andre, creating new windows for Schaub to target utilizing explosiveness & disciplined routes. I usually say early 2nd but you know just as well, these things can creep up higher than you think (depending on need which you made a solid case already for) doesn't hurt either that OU has one heck of a team to showcase his talents in national market.[/QUOTE No offense intended but I will take redundancy of AJ anytime I can get it. i do not understand your thought here.

 

[beerlover]

I suppose anybody would be a #2 compared to Andre but that wasn't my point. Fuller is a long, big body built for deep routes & red zone targets which is great but my thinking was more towards quick hitches & underneath routes to open up those deeper routes for Andre. Texans still lack a playmaker with explosive short space speed & reliable hands. I might have used the wrong comparison but I didn't want to compare him to a DeSean Jackson because he doesn't seem to have that type of speed. Still he is smart, finds the seams, blocks & doesn't make mistakes or turn the ball over which cannot be over valued too much.

 

[badboy]

I suppose anybody would be a #2 compared to Andre but that wasn't my point. Fuller is a long, big body built for deep routes & red zone targets which is great but my thinking was more towards quick hitches & underneath routes to open up those deeper routes for Andre. Texans still lack a playmaker with explosive short space speed & reliable hands. I might have used the wrong comparison but I didn't want to compare him to a DeSean Jackson because he doesn't seem to have that type of speed. Still he is smart, finds the seams, blocks & doesn't make mistakes or turn the ball over which cannot be over valued too much.

I understand your point but AJ does quite well with short passes and them making something happen after the catch. No reason Fuller could not do same. I would rather see TEs and RBs occupying the short yardage stuff and utilysizing Slaton more as a receiver in the flats and some screens.

 

[beerlover]

I understand your point but AJ does quite well with short passes and them making something happen after the catch. No reason Fuller could not do same. I would rather see TEs and RBs occupying the short yardage stuff and utilysizing Slaton more as a receiver in the flats and some screens.

AJ is not best utilized in short yardage situations. Sure he can do it by why not relieve him of that task if someone else is capable? I'm looking towards Andre for big plays, let someone else move the chains

 

[Ole Miss Texan]

AJ is not best utilized in short yardage situations. Sure he can do it by why not relieve him of that task if someone else is capable? I'm looking towards Andre for big plays, let someone else move the chains

I'm still on the Fuller bandwagon. And you're 100% correct, he does remind me of AJ a lot - from the type of WR he is and size. Normally I love complimentary players - ones that fit a role on this team ala Walter... or even David Anderson (don't hate!).

But I like Fuller for us because I think he can be a great #2 and god hope it never comes to this, but grow into the #1 if AJ misses time... AJ will be entering his 10th season. The way we keep our core players (AJ, Owen, Demeco, etc etc) I'd assume Fuller would fit that mold as well, assuming he's actually good. AJ grooming Fuller to eventually take over would be incredible.

Because after AJ and Fuller we'd have Jacoby and Walter who fit distinctly seperate roles and that I think are needed. As far as the short routes... I'm still holding out hope that Jeff Maehl puts serious work in on the PS and makes the team. Andre, Fuller, Walter, Jacoby, Maehl would be a sick WR grouping. Got legit #1 and #2 guys. Got a sneaky quick playmaker and punt returner in Jacoby. Got a great blocker and guy that just finds a way to get open- Walter. And Maehl who could be a great short yardage playmaker that could take it to the house.

 

[Dutchrudder]

Anyone else want to go OT in the 1st next year after the Miami game?

 

[kiwitexansfan]

Anyone else want to go OT in the 1st next year after the Miami game?

I'm not sure about OT but I really think WR is not a priority.

 

[Wolf6151]

If one of the elite OT's fell to us I'd give it serious consideration. I'd move Winston to RG and either the rookie at RT or Brown moves to RT and the rookie at LT. I think our biggest needs are still on defense, NT, but I'd have a hard time not upgrading our O-line with some elite talent and moving Winston, thus improving several positions with one pick. Of course drafting a great NT would also improve several defensive positions with one pick as well. I still agree with Kiwi, WR's not our biggest priority.

 

[badboy]

If one of the elite OT's fell to us I'd give it serious consideration. I'd move Winston to RG and either the rookie at RT or Brown moves to RT and the rookie at LT. I think our biggest needs are still on defense, NT, but I'd have a hard time not upgrading our O-line with some elite talent and moving Winston, thus improving several positions with one pick. Of course drafting a great NT would also improve several defensive positions with one pick as well. I still agree with Kiwi, WR's not our biggest priority.

An impact left tackle would allow us to strengthen 3 spots + our bench.

 

[Wolf6151]

An impact left tackle would allow us to strengthen 3 spots + our bench.

You are correct. I didn't even think about what the addition of an elite LT would do for our bench. Moving Winston to RG drops Briesel and Caldwell to elite level backups instead of the journeymen we've been relying on. Rashad Butler is already an elite level backup OT. The addition of one LT would do wonders for our O-line starters and depth and when you improve the O-line you keep Schaub healthy, improve the running game, and just make the offense as a whole better. If I start thinking about it to much I'll start to drool, NT should still be our highest priority in the 2012 draft for now.

 

[badboy]

IMO there are no NT in draft unless Ta'amu gets much better RMartin65 watched him last Sat & he did not do well. Barring a trade for someone like Ron Brace, we better hope our current guys perform well. I also doubt an elite Left drops to where I expect we pick.