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Leave David Carr alone

ShinobiMusashi

Waterboy
There was another thread that was partially derailed with David Carr/Charlie Casserly talk that I found very interesting. I personally have a ton of nostalgia for the early years of the Texans and I have to confess I actually liked David Carr and think he's bashed a bit too hard by Texans fans. Sure he had major issues and I'm not going to sit here and say he was great but I seem to still have fond memories, the first touchdowns in the very first game against Dallas, some gutsy performances in some 2003-2004 games as well, remember the overtime shootout against Minnesota in 04? Man that was so good. 2004 seemed to be his peak, there was a run there when we were like 4-2 where he was playing really well, the win over KC, then he kinda fell apart with the rest of the team from there. Remember that time he was suplexed onto his head against Green Bay and then played like **** the rest of the game? Good times.

I thought he was going to be the next Steve Young, sure I was wrong but I seen flashes of real potential at times in his first 3 years. I was honestly actually kinda disappointed when they cut him for Schaub, at the time I thought that was a lateral move, those first 2 years it really kinda was, Schaub stayed hurt most of the time and wasn't that great until his third year. Maybe Kubiak should've given Carr another year in 2007?

Anyways yeah random old school thoughts on my mind tonight.
 

infantrycak

Admin & Mod
...some gutsy performances in some 2003-2004 games as well, remember the overtime shootout against Minnesota in 04? Man that was so good. 2004 seemed to be his peak, there was a run there when we were like 4-2 where he was playing really well,
Palmer supposedly reworked the offense for 2004. Carr was throwing for a lot of yards with a peak game (not OT) loss against Minnesota with 372 yds, 3 TDs, 0 INTs. Then 4 games later he threw 0 TDs, 3 INTs against Indy and Capers yanked the new offense. Carr was lucky to see 200 yds after that. So no, it wasn't ALL his fault. But a lot was.

And yes there were great memories in there.
 

bigmck

Rookie
There was another thread that was partially derailed with David Carr/Charlie Casserly talk that I found very interesting. I personally have a ton of nostalgia for the early years of the Texans and I have to confess I actually liked David Carr and think he's bashed a bit too hard by Texans fans. Sure he had major issues and I'm not going to sit here and say he was great but I seem to still have fond memories, the first touchdowns in the very first game against Dallas, some gutsy performances in some 2003-2004 games as well, remember the overtime shootout against Minnesota in 04? Man that was so good. 2004 seemed to be his peak, there was a run there when we were like 4-2 where he was playing really well, the win over KC, then he kinda fell apart with the rest of the team from there. Remember that time he was suplexed onto his head against Green Bay and then played like **** the rest of the game? Good times.

I thought he was going to be the next Steve Young, sure I was wrong but I seen flashes of real potential at times in his first 3 years. I was honestly actually kinda disappointed when they cut him for Schaub, at the time I thought that was a lateral move, those first 2 years it really kinda was, Schaub stayed hurt most of the time and wasn't that great until his third year. Maybe Kubiak should've given Carr another year in 2007?

Anyways yeah random old school thoughts on my mind tonight.
David, I wasn't aware you were a member of the Forum. :)
 

ShinobiMusashi

Waterboy
Palmer supposedly reworked the offense for 2004. Carr was throwing for a lot of yards with a peak game (not OT) loss against Minnesota with 372 yds, 3 TDs, 0 INTs. Then 4 games later he threw 0 TDs, 3 INTs against Indy and Capers yanked the new offense. Carr was lucky to see 200 yds after that. So no, it wasn't ALL his fault. But a lot was.

And yes there were great memories in there.
Interesting. I didn't know that. Was looking at his game logs for 2004 and he definitely peaked during that first half of the season. From week 2 to week 7 of that year he had a 64.67% completion percentage with 1,688 yards 9 touchdowns and 3 interceptions for a rating of 103.7 during that stretch. It was during that stretch that we had our very first winning record and our very first 2 game win streak(remember Carr's hair haha! good times), also Carr brought us our very first win over the sell out Tennessee Oilers during that stretch.

We went 4-2 during that 6 game stretch(4-3 overall) at one point during that stretch we won 4 out of 5 games with the only loss being that epic shootout loss to Minnesota where we came back from 21-0 deficit. So there was talent there.

The rest of that season we went 3-6, during those last 9 games Carr fell apart with only 7 tds 9 interceptions and a 70. rating.
 

ShinobiMusashi

Waterboy
Also another interesting little stat that I like, Carr set a NFL record for most times sacked in that 2002 expansion year, he took a beating every week but he was 1 of only 3 or 4 quarterbacks to start all 16 games in the NFL that year. It was a different era back then much more brutal and physical for QB's than now. I always liked that the kid was that tough and he just seemed to have a fire in his belly those first few years. Its crazy how that just got beat right out of him by 2005.

Also I read in a book a while back that Carr had bad relationships with team mates and coaching staff and that his dad was always around him micro managing his life and career, supposedly this impacted his status in the locker room and he was never taken seriously as a leader, for example instead of going out with the boys after practice he was always being taken away by daddy who was always right there over his shoulder. Has anybody else ever heard anything about that before?
 

infantrycak

Admin & Mod
Yes the dad stuff was noticed. Carr's Christian/family 1st priorities kept him from mingling with the team. It's common for QBs to take their OL out to dinner. Carr didn't do it. Lots of players hang out late at the facility to watch film (and coaches will stay if asked). Carr took dvds home. Who knows how much he watched. You could see he was basically alone on the sideline. That was all on him.

When Derek came into the league he talked about doing things differently.
 

ShinobiMusashi

Waterboy
And I always love a good "what if", what if we drafted Peppers and Carr started his career somewhere else? Where would he have most likely have landed in that 2002 draft if we didn't take him? Detroit? Washington? and would he have been better or worse? Same? The thought of him going to Washington at that time is very intriguing, they had a great o-line during the Joe Gibbs 2.0 run with a few good weapons in Portis, Moss, and Cooley, I mean surely Carr was better than Jason Campbell and Patrick Ramsey right?

Also I know Schaub was on another level but I still can't help but remember Carr more fondly I don't know why. I just don't think Carr was this big joke bust that he's made out to be by Texans fans we had some good times. He's still my boy ftw!
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
You've got to seriously wonder about these men that simply can't let go of David Carr nostalgia and continually try to push this "drunk fan" agenda that David Carr was some HOFer that the Texans destroyed like he was some sort of terminator that Sarah Connors needed to destroy to save man kind.

He was a bust who didn't put enough time into studying defenses and understanding the league. He also went to a shitty organization. Get over it. There was no Pro Bowler waiting to be unleashed.
 

Honoring Earl 34

Something Witty !
Yes the dad stuff was noticed. Carr's Christian/family 1st priorities kept him from mingling with the team. It's common for QBs to take their OL out to dinner. Carr didn't do it. Lots of players hang out late at the facility to watch film (and coaches will stay if asked). Carr took dvds home. Who knows how much he watched. You could see he was basically alone on the sideline. That was all on him.

When Derek came into the league he talked about doing things differently.
I remember them being terribly naive and immature . Carr bought his OL paintball guns after one season , paintball guns . I've heard of a QB buying Rolexes before but not paintball guns . I knew a guy who was a hole behind them on the golf course and had to wait on them because they were like sophomores in high school and that's without drinking . Then there was Ole Roger not going to cut his hair crap . That's why Carr stunk and when he went to Carolina and wore white gloves , they deemed him Mr. Mittens because he sucked there too .
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Has Watson exceeded Carr's being sacked record yet?

:coffee:

Found it: Texans quarterback David Carr's NFL-record 76 sacks in 2002 and 68 in 2005.

Deshaun Watson sacked NFL-high 62 times this season.

So we are making progress in protecting our QB. :sarcasm:
How the OL coach still has a job is beyond me.

Thx for pointing out Texans history was repeating itself, just like I predicted before last season even started and no, I didn't want to be right but it was so plain to see what was going to happen that even a blind man could see what was coming.
 

Marcus

Ruthless pragmatist
I had to do a double take when I saw the title of this thread. Like, you got to be kidding me. But, I guess that’s the reaction of anyone who has been here since day one. 2004? Holy sh!t, that’s freakin 15 years ago.

But if anything else, the fact that he continued to suck ass after he got cut here, speaks volumes. Ususally, most people here that got drafted, improved when they went to other teams.

HWSNBN. Let’s keep it that way.
 

Hervoyel

BUENO!
And I always love a good "what if", what if we drafted Peppers and Carr started his career somewhere else? Where would he have most likely have landed in that 2002 draft if we didn't take him? Detroit? Washington? and would he have been better or worse? Same? The thought of him going to Washington at that time is very intriguing, they had a great o-line during the Joe Gibbs 2.0 run with a few good weapons in Portis, Moss, and Cooley, I mean surely Carr was better than Jason Campbell and Patrick Ramsey right?

Also I know Schaub was on another level but I still can't help but remember Carr more fondly I don't know why. I just don't think Carr was this big joke bust that he's made out to be by Texans fans we had some good times. He's still my boy ftw!
Peppers was the clear choice. The safe choice. Not going with Peppers and picking Carr put us behind the 8-ball from day one. It's also interesting to look at where later drafts might have shaken out had we not gone QB with our very first draft pick.

In 2002-2003 the Texans offense was a shaky, fragile mess with Carr and every single time that Tony Banks set foot on that field things got better. Not "HERE WE GO!!!! SUPER BOWL!!!!" better but the entire OL settled down and played at a somewhat higher level. With Banks you lost all the sacks given up to running out of bounds behind the line of scrimmage. You got a player who at least had an internal clock that ran on NFL time. There was no reason to go with David Carr as the starter from day one other than Bob's man-crush on him.

You pick Peppers in 2002 and you probably don't win any more games than we did. What, maybe 1 game? 2? that was a tough year for the OL with all those injuries and inexperience. No question about it. Do you think Chester Pitt's improvement from 2002 to 2003 would be helped by Tony Banks under center? I do. He played well in 2003 and probably wouldn't have sucked as much in 2002 if he hadn't had an inexperienced ready-to-rabbit-at-the-snap-of-the-ball rookie to protect.

I don't think the 2003 draft goes much different than it did in reality. If you win 4 games like we did in 2002 (hell we barely won some of those) and draft at the same spot then the Texans are probably taking Andre Johnson again because the need for a real #1 WR is still there and he's Andre friggin Johnson. Remember, Casserly wasn't stupid. He just wasn't as smart as he thought he was. Only a blind man or Matt Millen would pass on Andre Johnson.

Things get interesting in 2004 though. Again just hypothetically say you find yourself drafting at or near the same spot that we did in reality you are a team that's probably ready to add a better QB. The Texans might very well have found themselves looking at Roethlisberger.

It's nuts how one pick can affect future picks.
 
I believe that David Carr could have been a very good QB, in the right situation. However, the way the Texans put together the roster in the first year wasn't very smart. Starting a rookie QB for a new franchise proved to be unadvisable. We are still trying to recover and get it right.

Do you remember our first pick of the 2002 expansion draft? Tony Boselli. He was a pro bowl OT but was past his prime and never played a down for the Texans. Our track record of drafting OL to protect the QB started out bad and hasn't improved. Dwayne Brown is by far our best O-lineman the Texans ever drafted and we are still trying to duplicate that success.

It's a shame that Carr didn't have an OL to help him. I just don't want to be on this message board in 10 years talking the same way about Watson.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Wasn’t too keen on the David Carr pick from day 1, but not b/c I wanted peppers but b/c I’d looked at a little tape on DC & didn’t really like what I saw.

I actually wanted Harrington. I just thought he looked better as a qb and thought he would hold up better for what I knew was coming to anyone who wound up under center for us. But b/c I’m a big proponent of sitting guys for a year, I figured we’d do the journeyman qb 1st and turn the keys over to our prized franchise guy in the 2nd year.

In hindsight, i don’t think it would’ve matter who or what way we chose to play it, the person lining up under center for us was going to get mollywhopped for at least 2 years.
 

Lucky

Moderator
Staff member
Remember, Casserly wasn't stupid. He just wasn't as smart as he thought he was.
I have a story about Casserly and Tom Brady that would have completely changed the perception about old Charley. I may have told it before. Maybe on the old HPF site. It comes around to the Carr pick, eventually. I'll get back to it after I finish work. I hate it when people make me work.
 
I have a story about Casserly and Tom Brady that would have completely changed the perception about old Charley. I may have told it before. Maybe on the old HPF site. It comes around to the Carr pick, eventually. I'll get back to it after I finish work. I hate it when people make me work.
Well that makes you a bit of a tease doesn't it. :kitten:
 

Lucky

Moderator
Staff member
I have a story about Casserly and Tom Brady that would have completely changed the perception about old Charley. I may have told it before. Maybe on the old HPF site. It comes around to the Carr pick, eventually. I'll get back to it after I finish work. I hate it when people make me work.
So in early 2002, I am living in the metro Boston area, doing contract work for a government contractor. Setting up semiconductor packaging equipment and training employees. I was an avid sports fan even back then, listening to the Boston sports radio station WEEI whenever I was in the car. During Super Bowl week, WEEI brings on Charley Casserly for an interview. Casserly, a Worchester native, was a frequent guest on the station.. I'm pumped for it, because I've been a Texan fan since before they came up with the name. I was moving back to Houston in the spring, and a buddy and I were planning on getting season tickets for the Texans.

During the interview, Casserly said that the team had scouted Tom Brady extensively in the preseason. They had a plan to offer the Patriots the 1st pick in the 2nd round for Brady. Casserly felt that the Patriots would jump at the offer. Drew Bledsoe had just signed a $100 million contract as was ensconced as New England's franchise QB. The 1st pick in the 2nd round was very valuable then, as rookie contracts dropped substantially from the 1st to 2nd rounds.

Needless to say, a Bledsoe injury in Week 2 dashed the Texans plans. Brady took over and led a 5-11 team to an 11-5 record, and an AFC title. By the time the Super Bowl rolled around, everyone in football knew Belichick was sticking with Tom Terrific and Bledsoe would be on the trading block.

This was prior to the Texans drafting Carr. There was still a debate as to which QB to take #1, Carr or Harrington. Peppers was dismissed as the #1 overall, as he was deemed a "bad fit" for Capers' 34 defense. And David Carr became the 1st pick of the 2002 NFL draft. But for Bledsoe being a dumbass and not running out of bounds, the Texans did not get Tom Brady.

Drew Bledsoe, you suck. I think Charley Casserly would agree.
 

Honoring Earl 34

Something Witty !
My View of Carr is the same as I had with VY in they had bad throwing mechanics . I would not draft a QB that high with bad mechanics . When Carr went to Carolina he said now I don't have to worry about throwing over ladders throwing Palmer under the bus . The 2002 Senior Bowl game was all you needed to know about Carr . He played three series and they ended with a batted down ball , a sack , and an int . Then Rohan Davey and Patrick Ramsey came in and the scored forty something points .
 

powda

You forgot the briefcase!
How in the holy h-e-l-l did this shyt get started?
My fault.

I made the comparison between Carr and his line with Watson and our current scrap heap. It was a few days into free agency (in the free agency thread) and we hadn't done anything.

I was disappointed. I didn't know it would turn into this. I'm sorry. I'll say one hail Mary for every sack in carr's career.
 
My fault.

I made the comparison between Carr and his line with Watson and our current scrap heap. It was a few days into free agency (in the free agency thread) and we hadn't done anything.

I was disappointed. I didn't know it would turn into this. I'm sorry. I'll say one hail Mary for every sack in carr's career.
To the corner of shame with you! :bag:
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
There's not enough here to measure our dicks for a thousand pages we have to bring David Carr back to the forefront?

Anybody for some Vince/Reggie rehash?
 

Texazan

Our HOF 34
So in early 2002, I am living in the metro Boston area, doing contract work for a government contractor. Setting up semiconductor packaging equipment and training employees. I was an avid sports fan even back then, listening to the Boston sports radio station WEEI whenever I was in the car. During Super Bowl week, WEEI brings on Charley Casserly for an interview. Casserly, a Worchester native, was a frequent guest on the station.. I'm pumped for it, because I've been a Texan fan since before they came up with the name. I was moving back to Houston in the spring, and a buddy and I were planning on getting season tickets for the Texans.

During the interview, Casserly said that the team had scouted Tom Brady extensively in the preseason. They had a plan to offer the Patriots the 1st pick in the 2nd round for Brady. Casserly felt that the Patriots would jump at the offer. Drew Bledsoe had just signed a $100 million contract as was ensconced as New England's franchise QB. The 1st pick in the 2nd round was very valuable then, as rookie contracts dropped substantially from the 1st to 2nd rounds.

Needless to say, a Bledsoe injury in Week 2 dashed the Texans plans. Brady took over and led a 5-11 team to an 11-5 record, and an AFC title. By the time the Super Bowl rolled around, everyone in football knew Belichick was sticking with Tom Terrific and Bledsoe would be on the trading block.

This was prior to the Texans drafting Carr. There was still a debate as to which QB to take #1, Carr or Harrington. Peppers was dismissed as the #1 overall, as he was deemed a "bad fit" for Capers' 34 defense. And David Carr became the 1st pick of the 2002 NFL draft. But for Bledsoe being a dumbass and not running out of bounds, the Texans did not get Tom Brady.

Drew Bledsoe, you suck. I think Charley Casserly would agree.

Wow, wish I would've never read that but thanks for adding it to the absolute shyt luck we've had as a sporty city!




Eh, we would've gotten Brady killed anyway....
 

chicagotexan2

Fire Fat Travolta
Aside from the joy and elation of getting the NFL back in Houston, the era of inception for the Texans was a failure. Bad HC, bad GM, bad first pick. I don’t think Carr did enough to become a better player but I also doubt any QB could have succeeded here in the first 4 seasons with that shitty regime.
 


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