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Lance Zierlein Mock Draft 2.0

76Texan said:
Like I said, there are only so many balls to throw around.
With OD and Graham on the team and the way we like to get the ball to AJ and Foster (or any RB that can catch the ball, including Tate), another TE is not going to add much value to the outcome of the game.

Don't forget that I was the one who touted Eifert as the number one TE to watch since last year.

I really want the Texans to trade away the first round for a future first and something like a second or a third this year.

There will be some great player at the top half of the first next year that we'll have to trade up if we want them; real game changers.

Trading out of the first, you can still get some added value with that second or third rounder this year.

The team that get our first could package two first rounders to move up to the top to get the guy they want to win now, so it's not out of the equation, really.

Do it Rick!
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Disagree about the TE's but 1000000 X agree with the trade down. I have been banging the table for that since I started looking into this draft months ago. A first next year and another top 120 pick this year would be an incredible win.

Don't see it happening but there could be no better scenario for this draft.
 
Rey said:
Ummmmm....I had Irvin in the first last year...

I doubt Patterson falls out of the first round, but regardless I wouldn't want to pass him up for a TE.
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Define TE. What is the difference between TE and WR to you? This isn't the 80's. TE's Like these guys are blown up WR's. They aren't guys that are limited to lining up next to OT's and just run short routes over the middle.
 
mussop said:
Define TE. What is the difference between TE and WR to you? This isn't the 80's. TE's Like these guys are blown up WR's. They aren't guys that are limited to lining up next to OT's and just run short routes over the middle.
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This is not groundbreaking news that te's sometimes split out.

That's really not relevant though because your assertion that they are blown up wr's is incorrect. They are te's. They might be more versatile than some end of the line strictly te's but no TE can replace what a true wr brings, otherwise they wouldn't be te's they'd be wr's.

A true wr with speed and play making ability has run after the catch ability, field stretching ability....and....speed...

If we wanted a wr/TE type player we could have just kept Walter. But he doesn't do the things that we need from a second WR. Catch short routes and turn them into big gains...take the top of the defense...


No one is saying te's like Gronk and Hernandez aren't valuable and don't cause tons of problems for defenses, but considering this teams specific problems te's are much further down the list in comparison to more skill and playmaking at the wr position.

Also, let's not forget that dre hasn't been the healthiest guy. And he's another year older. Right now he's the only guy that can even be counted on to do anything at the wr position.

If we didn't have two capable te's already...sure. But that isn't the case and not often do you have this many high ability we'd projected to be around this late in the draft whereas te's rarely go very high. We can get another versatile TE later in this draft or next year pretty easily.
 
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Dang, I was looking forward to watch the guys from Washington - Seferian-Jenkins (6'6 a 260 something) play next year, but he just got suspended indefinitely for DUI with his car in the ditch.

Just a sophomore, and he had over 100 catches already.
What a waste!
 
badboy said:
$3.5 million in bonus against $ 8.5 m salary.
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I like Rick Smith as a GM, but this was a bad contract for the Texans. Folks wonder why we don't have any money in FA this year, contracts like this one are the reason why... I like OD, but from a financial standpoint a 1st round TE would make sense even though we have other much bigger team needs.
 
Wolf6151 said:
I like Rick Smith as a GM, but this was a bad contract for the Texans. Folks wonder why we don't have any money in FA this year, contracts like this one are the reason why... I like OD, but from a financial standpoint a 1st round TE would make sense even though we have other much bigger team needs.
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It's not as bad as his post made it look (Noc clue where $8.5 Million came from).

His 2013 salary is an even $4 Million, and with $1.75 of amortized bonus, it's a $5.75 Million cap hit. Not cheap by any means, but not quite as bad as the post you quoted indicated.

Edit: okay - he was including both remining years of his contract - not just 2013.
 
Rey said:
This is not groundbreaking news that te's sometimes split out.

That's really not relevant though because your assertion that they are blown up wr's is incorrect. They are te's. They might be more versatile than some end of the line strictly te's but no TE can replace what a true wr brings, otherwise they wouldn't be te's they'd be wr's.

A true wr with speed and play making ability has run after the catch ability, field stretching ability....and....speed...

If we wanted a wr/TE type player we could have just kept Walter. But he doesn't do the things that we need from a second WR. Catch short routes and turn them into big gains...take the top of the defense...


No one is saying te's like Gronk and Hernandez aren't valuable and don't cause tons of problems for defenses, but considering this teams specific problems te's are much further down the list in comparison to more skill and playmaking at the wr position.

Also, let's not forget that dre hasn't been the healthiest guy. And he's another year older. Right now he's the only guy that can even be counted on to do anything at the wr position.

If we didn't have two capable te's already...sure. But that isn't the case and not often do you have this many high ability we'd projected to be around this late in the draft whereas te's rarely go very high. We can get another versatile TE later in this draft or next year pretty easily.
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Disagree on what (certain)TE's bring to offenses. Do agree I would rather get one later. I really like Kelce and there are several solid project types that could be had later.
 
Rey last year mus and I had a knock down drag out over Colby Fleener. He likes te's. I'm not oposed to it if he's clearly the best player but we have a multitude of needs and I dont think te is one of them. If effert were a top 10 pick whom fell to 27 great
He's not. I said it last year and i'll say it this year...i'll be pissed if we pick a te in the first round.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
He actually mentions Patterson at one point, so... it was a conscious decision on his part to have him fall.
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League source who has given me incredibly accurate info that has appeared in this blog for 5 years told me Patterson could very well fall out of the first round. When he says something like that, I listen. He was the one telling me to put Bruce Irvin in the 1st round when nobody else had that last year.
http://blog.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2013/04/mock-draft-2-0-texans-get-a-weapon/
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OK, so that's LZs own explanation in his Mock for claiming that WR Patterson drops all the way out of the first round. Well I ain't buying it, and I'm more convinced than ever that the Texans take him should he make it to the 27th pick.
 
Patterson is Heyward Bey to me and overrated . Tyler Eifert is the best TE in the draft and in case nobody's noticed , the league is going more to the big athletic TEs . Dutch made the same case I would make and that is Schaub needs a vertical as in tall target in the red zone more than a vertical target to stretch the field .

Tyler Eifert may not be my preference but he is the best TE and Wrs and NT are deep in this draft .
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
Patterson is Heyward Bey to me and overrated . Tyler Eifert is the best TE in the draft and in case nobody's noticed , the league is going more to the big athletic TEs . Dutch made the same case I would make and that is Schaub needs a vertical as in tall target in the red zone more than a vertical target to stretch the field .

Tyler Eifert may not be my preference but he is the best TE and Wrs and NT are deep in this draft .
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If this is what you want, then Patterson in the 1st and Kelce in the 4th or Fauria in the 5th would represent better value. IMHO
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
I think a guy like Woods or Hopkins will be better than Patterson . Hunter had a better year last year than Patterson IIRC . Besides I don't think Vol Wrs light it up in the NFL .

http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/stats/_/id/2633/tennessee-volunteers
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Former Vols WR Rodgers will. IMHO

Patterson did very well last yr considering it was his 1st yr of college ball.

Hunter has unreal ability but his injury history scares me.

Vols WR's have history of being successful Guys like Stallworth/Alivin Harper/Anthony Miller/Stanley Morgan all had long and successful to moderately successful careers.
 
steelbtexan said:
Former Vols WR Rodgers will. IMHO

Patterson did very well last yr considering it was his 1st yr of college ball.

Hunter has unreal ability but his injury history scares me.

Vols WR's have history of being successful Guys like Stallworth/Alivin Harper/Anthony Miller/Stanley Morgan all had long and successful to moderately successful careers.
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Add Meachem and Gault and what you have is guys who run fast down the field with no left or right turns .

I look and see what Hunter and Patterson did vs the SEC big boys .
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
Patterson

9/29 @Georgia L 51-44 2 31 15.5 1
10/13 @Mississippi St L 41-31 2 25 12.5 0
10/20 Alabama L 44-13 1 25 25.0 0
10/27 @South Carolina L 38-35 3 26 0
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Don't worry about numbers.
The Vols have had a balance offense the last few years.

The one inconsistency is with the QB; otherwise, Tyler Bray would have been talked about as the number one QB in the draft.

If he only had minimized his inconsistency to the level of Andrew Luck (Luck was inconsistent in his Junior year), Bray would still have been regarded as a bona-fide first rounder.
 
One thing you need to keep in mind, Earl, is that against the big guns like Florida, Alabama, and Georgia, the Vols still amassed more yardage than those defenses normally allowed.

Bray never had a good game against the top teams in the SEC, thus the inconsistency I was talking about.

He got rattled and made poor decision that led to turnovers or he would take too many dump-offs unecessarily, or he would get all happy-feet.
 
76Texan said:
One thing you need to keep in mind, Earl, is that against the big guns like Florida, Alabama, and Georgia, the Vols still amassed more yardage than those defenses normally allowed.

Bray never had a good game against the top teams in the SEC, thus the inconsistency I was talking about.

He got rattled and made poor decision that led to turnovers or he would take too many dump-offs unecessarily, or he would get all happy-feet.
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Hunter had 17 catches to Patterson's 8 in that 4 game span . Receiving is as much an art as it is about 40 yd dashes . Patterson is a great raw athlete but is he a polished WR and can he ever be ?

You are much better off taking a WR in the 2nd than in the 1st in this draft .

For the record , Hopkins had 26 catches in two games vs Auburn and LSU .
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
Hunter had 17 catches to Patterson's 8 in that 4 game span . Receiving is as much an art as it is about 40 yd dashes . Patterson is a great raw athlete but is he a polished WR and can he ever be ?

You are much better off taking a WR in the 2nd than in the 1st in this draft .
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Earl, I had watched at least 15 Vols games the least two years, and not merely watching.

They have had a good runnig game (considering the defense they played against.). When they can run the ball, they would, to take the pressure off their QBs, whoever play that game.
In 2011, Hunter and Rodgers took turn stretching the field.
When the QB was not pressured, they would look at the X and Z receivers; if the first read is double- teamed, they went to the second read.
In 2012, it was Patterson and Hunter.

The second read was often another receiver, the TE, or the RB out of the backfield.

That's why all eleven guys on offense, plus the third receiver (Zac Rogers), all we given draftable grades by CBS Sports either this year or next.
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
Hunter had 17 catches to Patterson's 8 in that 4 game span . Receiving is as much an art as it is about 40 yd dashes . Patterson is a great raw athlete but is he a polished WR and can he ever be ?

You are much better off taking a WR in the 2nd than in the 1st in this draft .
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Earl, I had watched at least 15 Vols games the last two years, and not merely watching.

They have had a good runnig game (considering the defense they played against.). When they can run the ball, they would, to take the pressure off their QBs, whoever play that game.
In 2011, Hunter and Rodgers took turn stretching the field.
When the QB was not pressured, they would look at the X and Z receivers; if the first read is double- teamed, they went to the second read.
In 2012, it was Patterson and Hunter.

The second read was often another receiver, the TE, or the RB out of the backfield.

That's why all eleven guys on offense, plus the third receiver (Zac Rogers), all we given draftable grades by CBS Sports either this year or next.
 
76Texan said:
Earl, I had watched at least 15 Vols games the least two years, and not merely watching.

They have had a good runnig game (considering the defense they played against.). When they can run the ball, they would, to take the pressure off their QBs, whoever play that game.
In 2011, Hunter and Rodgers took turn stretching the field.
When the QB was not pressured, they would look at the X and Z receivers; if the first read is double- teamed, they went to the second read.
In 2012, it was Patterson and Hunter.

The second read was often another receiver, the TE, or the RB out of the backfield.

That's why all eleven guys on offense, plus the third receiver (Zac Rogers), all we given draftable grades by CBS Sports either this year or next.
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Being drafted and being drafted high in the 1st are two different things . It usually takes two or three years for a wideout to hit his stride ... why ... cause the CB are just as fast , disguise their coverage , and you have to think / read faster and be smart enough to be in check with the QB .

I think most WRs fail because for every Jerry Rice , AJ , Reggie Wayne , and Calvin Johnson , there's a big fast guy who doesn't understand what it takes to be an NFL receiver .
 
76Texan said:
Patterson's stock is similar to Tavon Austin, as both were used not only as pure receiver, but also to run reverses, and also as return men.
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I would think Austin will be better than Patterson and Austin would help Schaub more if Kubiak would play to Austin's strengths .
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
I would think Austin will be better than Patterson and Austin would help Schaub more if Kubiak would play to Austin's strengths .
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They both produced in college; Patterson against better competition.

Patterson is still raw in his route running, and he was able to achieve results despite an inconsistent QB (Bray vs Geno Smith.)

The guy with the better upside is Patterson, his size notwithstanding.
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
I think a guy like Woods or Hopkins will be better than Patterson . Hunter had a better year last year than Patterson IIRC . Besides I don't think Vol Wrs light it up in the NFL .

http://espn.go.com/college-football/team/stats/_/id/2633/tennessee-volunteers
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Some concerns about Patterson are coming to light as far as his mental grasp of the game, but I think that is going to be something each team will gauge for themselves. It would be tough to pass on him, but I do believe Hopkins & even Hunter are good players & possibly worthy of being the Texans pick. Hopkins seems to be the safest pick imo.

It's ironic that you knock Vols WR's by saying they don't light it up in the NFL, but earlier mentioned Woods saying you liked him better & considering he is from USC I think it is safe to say that USC has had its fair share of WR's who have come out w/ lofty expectations & then fizzled & disappeared in the NFL. I think they are 2 of the same kind to be honest & I'm not a big fan of USC WR's because of the more hype then production from its recent WR's whom have entered the NFL going back to Keyshawn Johnson....the ultimate hype machine.
 
76Texan said:
They both produced in college; Patterson against better competition.

Patterson is still raw in his route running, and he was able to achieve results despite an inconsistent QB (Bray vs Geno Smith.)

The guy with the better upside is Patterson, his size notwithstanding.
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tru80texan said:
Some concerns about Patterson are coming to light as far as his mental grasp of the game, but I think that is going to be something each team will gauge for themselves. It would be tough to pass on him, but I do believe Hopkins & even Hunter are good players & possibly worthy of being the Texans pick. Hopkins seems to be the safest pick imo.

It's ironic that you knock Vols WR's by saying they don't light it up in the NFL, but earlier mentioned Woods saying you liked him better & considering he is from USC I think it is safe to say that USC has had its fair share of WR's who have come out w/ lofty expectations & then fizzled & disappeared in the NFL. I think they are 2 of the same kind to be honest & I'm not a big fan of USC WR's because of the more hype then production from its recent WR's whom have entered the NFL going back to Keyshawn Johnson....the ultimate hype machine.
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The thing I don't see with Patterson is YAC . Even on kickoffs he doesn't seem to break tackles .

Here is rankings of WRs since 1999 . Just scroll through and see how many highly drafted Wrs pan out .

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/players.php?genpos=WR&draftyear=1999&sortorder=tsxpos&order=ASC
 
steelbtexan said:
Former Vols WR Rodgers will. IMHO

Patterson did very well last yr considering it was his 1st yr of college ball.

Hunter has unreal ability but his injury history scares me.

Vols WR's have history of being successful Guys like Stallworth/Alivin Harper/Anthony Miller/Stanley Morgan all had long and successful to moderately successful careers.
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Rodgers does seem to play w/ some emotion & intensity to go along w/ his good physical skills. Those are some good attributes if he can keep his head on straight off the field & emotions in check on the field so that he doesn't hurt the team. I kinda compare him to Dez Bryant, whom most just watch & wait to see when he will screw up next.
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
The thing I don't see with Patterson is YAC . Even on kickoffs he doesn't seem to break tackles .

Here is rankings of WRs since 1999 . Just scroll through and see how many highly drafted Wrs pan out .

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/players.php?genpos=WR&draftyear=1999&sortorder=tsxpos&order=ASC
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I'm not disagreeing w/ you that Vol's WR's have not done much over the years, but neither have USC WR's & Woods falls in that catagory. I realize a players talent doesnt diminish because of the school they played at, but I do believe their development could be hampered or they are a product of more hype then production based on the school they attended. Your feelings about Vol WR's reflect my feelings about USC WR's, that's all I'm saying & it seems they are like in kind imo.

No biggie, I was just noting it because some on here could not handle my opinion concerning USC WR's which is just like yours concerning VOL WR's.
 
tru80texan said:
I'm not disagreeing w/ you that Vol's WR's have not done much over the years, but neither have USC WR's & Woods falls in that catagory. I realize a players talent doesnt diminish because of the school they played at, but I do believe their development could be hampered or they are a product of more hype then production based on the school they attended. Your feelings about Vol WR's reflect my feelings about USC WR's, that's all I'm saying & it seems they are like in kind imo.

No biggie, I was just noting it because some on here could not handle my opinion concerning USC WR's which is just like yours concerning VOL WR's.
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I think WRs from a pro style offense are safer picks .
 
tru80texan said:
I'm not disagreeing w/ you that Vol's WR's have not done much over the years, but neither have USC WR's & Woods falls in that catagory. I realize a players talent doesnt diminish because of the school they played at, but I do believe their development could be hampered or they are a product of more hype then production based on the school they attended. Your feelings about Vol WR's reflect my feelings about USC WR's, that's all I'm saying & it seems they are like in kind imo.

No biggie, I was just noting it because some on here could not handle my opinion concerning USC WR's which is just like yours concerning VOL WR's.
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A receiver that doesn't pan out in the pro due to injury or by running amock outside the football field has nothing to do with a college program being able to develop their skills.

You're a very stubborn person who doesn't take the time to do research before coming to a conclusion.
 
76Texan said:
A receiver that doesn't pan out in the pro due to injury or by running amock outside the football field has nothing to do with a college program being able to develop their skills.

You're a very stubborn person who doesn't take the time to do research before coming to a conclusion.
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I rest my case on the perfect example of a know it all who can't handle someone else's opinion & foolishly assumes he is the only one who does "research". Talk about stubborn. :rolleyes:

Jarrett, Mike Williams, & Johnson to go along w/ many others from USC were not all effected by injury that effected their play in the NFL. Being a knucklehead is not something that can't be overcome & even when some of those players did get an opportunity to play in the NFL, Mike Williams, their so-called talent that was much hyped coming out of USC still never carried over to the NFL.

As I said earlier, his lack of respect for Vol WR's is exactly the same way I feel about USC WR's. That position from those 2 schools simply haven't had much success as of late & not having much hope that it will is based on their past.

In the end, it's my opinion & it seems someone else has the same opinion about the Vol's WR's based on the same lack of production from its past drafted players. It's an opinion & just because you feel it was made w/out research doesn't mean that is true or accurate or that you are correct. Get over it because its your stubbornness that keeps you from accepting the fact that your opinion is not that of others nor is going to be simply because you harp on the issue. Once again, we can easily agree to disagree. :smile:
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
Look at the 50 sec mark and unless I'm mistaken , he's scared to get popped . He's Ted Ginn .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZ_qeWcDVvM
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A 6'3 220 Lb Ted Ginn who played some RB.

I doubt Patterson would be playing RB if he was afraid of contact. Although we are talking about Dooley being the HC.

Even if Patterson is afraid of contact, he made the most big plays on the Vols offense.

Against Alabama Millner was opposite Patterson most of the game with help from Sunseri over the top.

Georgia also used help over the with Cummings as the main guy covering Patterson.
 
76 and I view Bray differently. He sees his flaws in Bray that I attribute to poor coaching.

Bray helped keep the Vols in most games, the Vols defense was atrocious. Despite having some pro prospects like McCullers/Johnson/Wagner ect... (Terrible coaching)
 
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steelbtexan said:
A 6'3 220 Lb Ted Ginn who played some RB.

I doubt Patterson would be playing RB if he was afraid of contact. Although we are talking about Dooley being the HC.

Even if Patterson is afraid of contact, he made the most big plays on the Vols offense.

Against Alabama Millner was opposite Patterson most of the game with help from Sunseri over the top.

Georgia also used help over the with Cummings as the main guy covering Patterson.
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And you know what is going to happen if he gets that kind of attention for us? Number 80 is going to have a field day!

Like Erving said in his video, he needs to go where the offense can scheme him open. He's not a guy that early on is going to be able to read defenses and make adjustments on the fly.

Get the ball to him on bubble screens, we do that!
Get the ball to him on reverses, we do that!
Get the ball to him off play action fakes, we do that!
Get him the ball on kickoff and punt returns, we need that!

He is everything we ever wanted Jacoby Jones to be and more right now. His impact on this team could be just what this team has needed for years. A guy that is a threat to score anytime he touches the ball. We have two TE's, a bad ass number one WR and a great RB as the core of this offense. Throw in a wild card like Patterson, find ways to get him the ball and watch his presence open things up for everyone else.
 
Only one little piece of research needed regarding the USC receivers that were perceived as lacking in the pros: The people in charge of running that program during that time span have been gone for quite awhile.

They have nothing to do with Robert Woods.
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
Yea he killed himself getting to that ball at 1:46 and I'm not sure he didn't have gator arms at 50 secs .

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-netwo...152403/Michael-Irvin-on-Cordarrelle-Patterson
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This comes back to route running, Earl.
And we've already know that he's lacking in that department.
He needs to understand how to run that route against cover two with the CB playing underneath. He should have ran that route toward the inside so that he can use his body to shield away the safety.
Bray's throw should have been to the outside to begin with.
He can't let the safety have a play on the ball.
Still, Patterson has got to learn to understand the concept of the offense and how to adjust his route depending upon the defense he sees.
 
76Texan said:
Only one little piece of research needed regarding the USC receivers that were perceived as lacking in the pros: The people in charge of running that program during that time span have been gone for quite awhile.

They have nothing to do with Robert Woods.
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LOL! One little addition to your lack of research concerning the people in charge being gone for quite a while at USC. Lane Kiffen has been associated w/ USC in some aspect since 2001 minus the 2007-2009 seasons due to his short stints w/ the Raiders & Vols & has coached offensive positions such as TE & WR as well as been the OC & now the HC. The only player that I mentioned that did not have anything to do w/ Kiffen & his offense or direct coaching was K. Johnson. All the other failures in te NFL in some aspect were coached by Kiffen. So your incorrect statement that those people in charge are long gone seems to be far from the truth because Kiffen was directly involved w/ most of the failed USC WR's. I think its safe to say Kiffen has had some dealings w/ Woods as well considering he is the HC. Kiffen being a major factor w/ all those WR's hardly says that all those people are long gone. A little research does help if you practice what you preach.

Try focusing on the subject matter instead of the person posting & maybe your stance might hold some water because as you continue to debate w/ me about my opinion you continue to overlook another member who basically said the same about Vol WR's as a group not doing well in the NFL. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, unless of course you just insist on focusing on individuals as opposed to the opinion on the subject. Moving on now, I hope you can do the same.
 
tru80texan said:
LOL! One little addition to your lack of research concerning the people in charge being gone for quite a while at USC. Lane Kiffen has been associated w/ USC in some aspect since 2001 minus the 2007-2009 seasons due to his short stints w/ the Raiders & Vols & has coached offensive positions such as TE & WR as well as been the OC & now the HC. The only player that I mentioned that did not have anything to do w/ Kiffen & his offense or direct coaching was K. Johnson. All the other failures in te NFL in some aspect were coached by Kiffen. So your incorrect statement that those people in charge are long gone seems to be far from the truth because Kiffen was directly involved w/ most of the failed USC WR's. I think its safe to say Kiffen has had some dealings w/ Woods as well considering he is the HC. Kiffen being a major factor w/ all those WR's hardly says that all those people are long gone. A little research does help if you practice what you preach.

Try focusing on the subject matter instead of the person posting & maybe your stance might hold some water because as you continue to debate w/ me about my opinion you continue to overlook another member who basically said the same about Vol WR's as a group not doing well in the NFL. What's good for the goose is good for the gander, unless of course you just insist on focusing on individuals as opposed to the opinion on the subject. Moving on now, I hope you can do the same.
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USC produced Frank Gifford ... nuff said . :gamer:
 
My bad; I did know about Kiffin when I looked things up some time ago; just slip my mind today.

I'll have some time tomorrow and we can revisit this.

Two things I know is that:
Jarrett and Williams, one guy had multiple DUI arrests and was cut, the other let his weight ballooned up to 270 lbs at one time.
 
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