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Lamar Miller Expectations

badboy

Hall of Fame
You can't invest a lot of money into a RB when you still have a broken Oline. I want nothing to do with signing Bell.
How does signing Bell have anything to do with Oline as no decent FA will be there and you can draft OLINE in all rounds if you want. Don't understand your comment? Second sentence cool but not the first.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
ReaDing comprehension is your friend. TOUCHES...not carries buddy. He caught the ball a ton in those years too.
300 carries for a RB is high... 300 touches.. is that really that much? I mean in Houston sure, our RBs would be over worked with a dozen catches a season.

But league wide, that's about what the top backs do huh?
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Bell is one of the smartest runners out there, patient he absorbs hits well, knows when to go down. I think its really reaching to say that he's on some kind of decline especially being anecdotal. No signs on the field point to that conclusion. I understand the workload argument, but if you look at what Adrian Peterson is doing the really good guys find ways to stay productive, PLUS what are we looking at 4-5 years? His contract ends when its time to back up the trucks for Watson? A[art from an MCL tear he had a few years ago most of his wear and tear is minor:

https://sportsinjurypredictor.com/player/leveon-bell/6666

I think Bill OBriens running philosophy and Bells running style are a match made in heaven. Bell understands the chaos, he knows linemen will get beat, he waits for that and then makes his decision. Add to that WR type hands. Last week instead of Joe freakin' Webb in the slot you could have put Bell in there and then brought in your backup RB. Add to that Bell is significantly better in pass pro, some wierd tidbit that I cant seem to substantiate is that he's never given up a sack. That PITT when Bell is not in on pass downs has DOUBLE the sack % then when he's in there. Miller has gotten 'better' at pass protection, but by no means is he good at it. Bell is GREAT at it.

"but bell has carried the ball too much he's going to get hurt" ..... paralysis by analysis.
You made a great case for Bell.

Conner has done basically the same thing Bell does this yr.

The $$$$ would be spent elsewhere. IMHO

How about using that $$$$ to fix the CB position and add Ingram/draft a RB or both. Miller is doing an acceptable job this yr, wouldn't you agree?
 

infantrycak

Admin & Mod
ReaDing comprehension is your friend. TOUCHES...not carries buddy. He caught the ball a ton in those years too.
Not all touches are created equal.

When did 300 touches get to be a heavy load? Emmitt Smith had over 300 carries 8 times. Walter Payton had over 300 carries 10 times. Barry Sanders had over 300 carries 7 times. LT had over 300 carries 7 times.

If Bell wants to be paid like a big dog he can play like one.
 

TheRealJoker

Hall of Fame
You made a great case for Bell.

Conner has done basically the same thing Bell does this yr.

The $$$$ would be spent elsewhere. IMHO

How about using that $$$$ to fix the CB position and add Ingram/draft a RB or both. Miller is doing an acceptable job this yr, wouldn't you agree?
Correct. RBs can be found relatively cheap as we're reminded year after year. Allocate resources ($$/draft picks) to positions that don't grow on trees (OL/CB).
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
300 carries for a RB is high... 300 touches.. is that really that much? I mean in Houston sure, our RBs would be over worked with a dozen catches a season.

But league wide, that's about what the top backs do huh?
I haven’t looked at the numbers so I couldn’t tell u about league avgs.....but Arian at his peak had a season or 2 with high volumes of carries and receptions like that at around the same age and he was broke down within 2 years..
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Not all touches are created equal.

When did 300 touches get to be a heavy load? Emmitt Smith had over 300 carries 8 times. Walter Payton had over 300 carries 10 times. Barry Sanders had over 300 carries 7 times. LT had over 300 carries 7 times.

If Bell wants to be paid like a big dog he can play like one.
I don’t disagree...but the game was different for most of the guys u named above.

These days, HC’s shy away from letting their main guys tote the rock 300 plus times...
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Not all touches are created equal.

When did 300 touches get to be a heavy load? Emmitt Smith had over 300 carries 8 times. Walter Payton had over 300 carries 10 times. Barry Sanders had over 300 carries 7 times. LT had over 300 carries 7 times.

If Bell wants to be paid like a big dog he can play like one.
You dont spend that kind of $$$$ unless you're fetting a Payton/Smith etc....

I dont see Bell as a HOF'er, do you?
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
You made a great case for Bell.

Conner has done basically the same thing Bell does this yr.

The $$$$ would be spent elsewhere. IMHO

How about using that $$$$ to fix the CB position and add Ingram/draft a RB or both. Miller is doing an acceptable job this yr, wouldn't you agree?
yeah I'd like to get Bell and a starting corner also. Chris Olsen needs to work his magic again and with our own young FAs like Covington and Fairburn.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
You made a great case for Bell.

Conner has done basically the same thing Bell does this yr.

The $$$$ would be spent elsewhere. IMHO

How about using that $$$$ to fix the CB position and add Ingram/draft a RB or both. Miller is doing an acceptable job this yr, wouldn't you agree?
The career arc that running back Le’Veon Bell is on is truly impressive. If he plays 10 seasons he will finish with over 15,000 yards from scrimmage which would put him in the Top 20 all-time in the NFL. There’s nothing to say he will play that long, and if he does decide to cut things short his odds take a big hit. There have only been a handful of backs that have been able to impact the run and pass game the way Bell can.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/steelerswire.usatoday.com/2017/06/30/ranking-the-hall-of-fame-prospects-on-the-current-steelers-roster/amp/

Holding out a full year doesn't help his HOF odds, but you can line him up statswise with plenty of HOFs through 6 years.

I think Miller has done an admiral job of running a hardheaded philosophy and style that didn't fit his strengths and I'll attribute that to the good job the offensive line has done whether you'd choose to believe it or not.

I see moments where Bell would flourish and Miller goes down on first contact. Are you saying KJAX can't play corner? I think JJo has another year .. sure we could use depth. We could also draft a RB.

Bell isn't a necessity obviously, but he led the league in rushing before his hold out. He is in his prime and I think he will prove his worth vs an injury/decline argument due to carries. All the great RBs tote the rock a ton, you want your best players touching the ball as much as possible.

If Gaine is as clever as some think he could find a way to front load with early termination if it didn't work out.

But yea we could always sign FA JAGs to fill out depth and hope they contribute, worked out with Fulton, not so much with Colvin.

Let's stop thinking about 5 years from now and go for it.
 

infantrycak

Admin & Mod
Bell isn't a necessity obviously, but he led the league in rushing before his hold out.
He led the league in carries and touches in 2017. He did not lead the league in yards (the traditional measure of leading the league) or ypc. In fact 2017 carries/touches is the only thing he's ever led.

Not sure what HoF backs you think he compares well to thru 6 seasons. Certainly not even close to any of the guys I mentioned.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
https://www.google.com/amp/s/steelerswire.usatoday.com/2017/06/30/ranking-the-hall-of-fame-prospects-on-the-current-steelers-roster/amp/

Holding out a full year doesn't help his HOF odds, but you can line him up statswise with plenty of HOFs through 6 years.

I think Miller has done an admiral job of running a hardheaded philosophy and style that didn't fit his strengths and I'll attribute that to the good job the offensive line has done whether you'd choose to believe it or not.

I see moments where Bell would flourish and Miller goes down on first contact. Are you saying KJAX can't play corner? I think JJo has another year .. sure we could use depth. We could also draft a RB.

Bell isn't a necessity obviously, but he led the league in rushing before his hold out. He is in his prime and I think he will prove his worth vs an injury/decline argument due to carries. All the great RBs tote the rock a ton, you want your best players touching the ball as much as possible.

If Gaine is as clever as some think he could find a way to front load with early termination if it didn't work out.

But yea we could always sign FA JAGs to fill out depth and hope they contribute, worked out with Fulton, not so much with Colvin.
I dont consider Ingram/Coleman to be run of the mill RB's.
 

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
He led the league in carries and touches in 2017. He did not lead the league in yards (the traditional measure of leading the league) or ypc. In fact 2017 carries/touches is the only thing he's ever led.

Not sure what HoF backs you think he compares well to thru 6 seasons. Certainly not even close to any of the guys I mentioned.
I'm on mobile so can't give this the attention that it deserves, but comparison wise Bell lines up more with a Marshall Faulkner than Emmit Smith or the guys you mention, but I'm not making a case for best RB ever. Just that he can be in the conversation

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&player_id1_hint=LaDainian+Tomlinson&player_id1_select=LaDainian+Tomlinson&fromyear_1=2001&toyear_1=2005&player_id1=TomlLa00&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Le'Veon+Bell&player_id2_select=Le'Veon+Bell&fromyear_2=2013&toyear_2=2017&player_id2=BellLe00&idx=players&player_id3_hint=Marshall+Faulk&player_id3_select=Marshall+Faulk&fromyear_3=1994&toyear_3=1998&player_id3=FaulMa00&idx=players&player_id4_hint=Emmitt+Smith&player_id4_select=Emmitt+Smith&fromyear_4=1990&toyear_4=1994&player_id4=SmitEm00&idx=players&player_id5_hint=Walter+Payton&player_id5_select=Walter+Payton&fromyear_5=1975&toyear_5=1979&player_id5=PaytWa00&idx=players&player_id6_hint=Barry+Sanders&player_id6_select=Barry+Sanders&fromyear_6=1989&toyear_6=1993&player_id6=SandBa00&idx=players

Hope the link works just comparing your guys with a couple of newer inductees.

I'm fairly sure with time I could find various examples of comparable HOF RB through 5 years.

Edit: this is what I found on rushing leaders for 2017 . . Is it wrong?

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2017/rushing.htm

Edit 2: I'm buzzing on Shiner duh .. 3rd in yards . Got it .

Edit 3: he did have like 700 yards receiving for what that's worth.
 
Last edited:

Uncle Rico

Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
I dont consider Ingram/Coleman to be run of the mill RB's.
I'd prefer Jay Ajayi or Blunt for this system. Coleman is smallish. I like Ingram alot. None of them are as dynamic as Bell.

Edit: I'd wonder if Jordan Howard was available.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I'd prefer Jay Ajayi or Blunt for this system. Coleman is smallish. I like Ingram alot. None of them are as dynamic as Bell.

Edit: I'd wonder if Jordan Howard was available.
Coleman is very dynamic. He's also a very good short yardage runner, he's not the big back you're describing.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I'd prefer Jay Ajayi or Blunt for this system. Coleman is smallish. I like Ingram alot. None of them are as dynamic as Bell.

Edit: I'd wonder if Jordan Howard was available.
Coleman is very dynamic. He's also a very good short yardage runner, he's not the big back you're describing.
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
I'm on mobile so can't give this the attention that it deserves, but comparison wise Bell lines up more with a Marshall Faulkner than Emmit Smith or the guys you mention, but I'm not making a case for best RB ever. Just that he can be in the conversation

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&player_id1_hint=LaDainian+Tomlinson&player_id1_select=LaDainian+Tomlinson&fromyear_1=2001&toyear_1=2005&player_id1=TomlLa00&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Le'Veon+Bell&player_id2_select=Le'Veon+Bell&fromyear_2=2013&toyear_2=2017&player_id2=BellLe00&idx=players&player_id3_hint=Marshall+Faulk&player_id3_select=Marshall+Faulk&fromyear_3=1994&toyear_3=1998&player_id3=FaulMa00&idx=players&player_id4_hint=Emmitt+Smith&player_id4_select=Emmitt+Smith&fromyear_4=1990&toyear_4=1994&player_id4=SmitEm00&idx=players&player_id5_hint=Walter+Payton&player_id5_select=Walter+Payton&fromyear_5=1975&toyear_5=1979&player_id5=PaytWa00&idx=players&player_id6_hint=Barry+Sanders&player_id6_select=Barry+Sanders&fromyear_6=1989&toyear_6=1993&player_id6=SandBa00&idx=players

Hope the link works just comparing your guys with a couple of newer inductees.

I'm fairly sure with time I could find various examples of comparable HOF RB through 5 years.

Edit: this is what I found on rushing leaders for 2017 . . Is it wrong?

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2017/rushing.htm

Edit 2: I'm buzzing on Shiner duh .. 3rd in yards . Got it .

Edit 3: he did have like 700 yards receiving for what that's worth.
Getting your game face on?
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Correct. RBs can be found relatively cheap as we're reminded year after year. Allocate resources ($$/draft picks) to positions that don't grow on trees (OL/CB).
This is like how easy it is to find a QB.

Everybody else seems to be able to find RBs falling out of trees... but we can't draft one in the 2nd round.

Whatever the team decides to do, I'm on board. You know that. But signing Bell with a threat like Watson under center will fix your OL.

Drafting a 2nd round guy at the bottom of the 1st, might.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Watt and Hopkins were considered very good deals..
Brown & KJax's current deal were pretty good too... & Ryan Mallett practically paid us his 2nd season. Didn't work our for us, but cost us practically nothing.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I would like to know behind scenes negotiations on Mathieu coming here for $ 7 million. Decent money but was there convincing to get him to come here; his signing was huge surprise my most.
 

DocBar

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
The offense has improved throughout the year. The O-Line is getting more cohesive as a unit; we have that 2nd receiver that opens it up a bit (more 7 man fronts); and Deshaun is healthier than he's been all season (linebacker have to spy him).

There's way more holes for Miller (and Blue) to run through, and they are taking advantage of it.
What football team are you watching?
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
How does signing Bell have anything to do with Oline as no decent FA will be there and you can draft OLINE in all rounds if you want. Don't understand your comment? Second sentence cool but not the first.
I guess you're just incapable then, because its pretty much as close to common sense as it gets. A RB with a ton of miles that could likely have injury problems in his future and you can't understand why I wouldn't want to invest in him at the high price he likely demands? And again, we have a terrible Oline, so only an idiot GM wouldn't understand why investing a lot in a RB would likely be a foolish position to invest in. You don't spend a ton of cap money on RB's any way. Worst position to have high investment in especially when so many teams have proven to have strong running games with a good Line and multiple skillset backs that cost a lot less.
 

eriadoc

Texan-American
What a joke, Lamar Miller is going to the probowl after Phillip Lindsay dropped out. Link
Meh, he has decent production, just not overall numbers. And frankly, I don't think any other AFC RB would have done much better with this OL. I don't view him as a Pro Bowl RB, of course, but no RBs in the AFC really stood out head and shoulders above the rest. Should have probably taken Chubb, but it's not the worst snub by a long shot.

Also, these guys being named Pro Bowlers because someone else drops out is really lame, IMO. VY was no Pro Bowler, sorry.
 

powda

You forgot the briefcase!
This wasn't a pro bowl season. Had a nice 2-3 game stretch - that's all.

Happy for him nonetheless.
 

Texansphan

All Pro
I think the running game missed jay porch ..I wonder why they canned him ..???
I don't think Prosch was all that else they wouldn't have released him. He is still a FA btw.
Texans have three TE's to do his job and a good Guard will also open holes for the running back - iow, Texans needed his roster spot.
 

infantrycak

Admin & Mod
I don't think Prosch was all that else they wouldn't have released him. He is still a FA btw.
Texans have three TE's to do his job and a good Guard will also open holes for the running back - iow, Texans needed his roster spot.
For what, a 6th WR they never use?

TEs and FBs don't perform the same role. Maybe not Prosch, but they should have had a FB.
 

infantrycak

Admin & Mod
Maybe another CB, so Philly doesn't happen again.

Or another LB for ST's
Doesn't address carrying unused WRs. And FBs are often good on STs. Joe Webb, Sammie Coates? You can pick guys just as good any week during the season if needed.

By the way, how come we use pick plays so little? BB uses them a ton. And maybe our D sucks at dealing with with them because they don't practice against them.
 
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JB

Old Curmudgeon
Doesn't address carrying unused WRs. And FBs are often good on STs. Joe Webb, Sammie Coates? You can pick guys just as good any week during the season if needed.

By the way, how come we use pick plays so little? BB uses them a ton. And maybe our D sucks at dealing with with them because they don't practice against them.
they sure run multiple receivers in the same area a lot to not be utilizing picks
 

steelbtexan

Hall of Fame
Doesn't address carrying unused WRs. And FBs are often good on STs. Joe Webb, Sammie Coates? You can pick guys just as good any week during the season if needed.

By the way, how come we use pick plays so little? BB uses them a ton. And maybe our D sucks at dealing with with them because they don't practice against them.
Maybe the 6th WR can help out more on ST's than Prosch did.
 

Texansphan

All Pro
For what, a 6th WR they never use?

TEs and FBs don't perform the same role. Maybe not Prosch, but they should have had a FB.
If you can get a good one like a Vonte Leach who you can use to pound the rock for those short yardage situations yeah, by all means.
I still think they valued his roster spot more than him.
Put it this way, if Prosch had better hands, they likely keep him.
 

infantrycak

Admin & Mod
Maybe the 6th WR can help out more on ST's than Prosch did.
Don't get stuck on Prosch. I'm talking generally about carrying a FB. But I'm sure Sammie Coates' 1 tackle and 3 assists were irreplaceable. Vonta and other FBs have contributed more. Dirt cheap (5th round originally, $2 mil now) probowl FB Anthony Sherman got 12+ tackles on ST. Hell Jameel Cook had 5 with 2 forced fumbles in 2006.

If you can get a good one like a Vonte Leach who you can use to pound the rock for those short yardage situations yeah, by all means.
I still think they valued his roster spot more than him.
Put it this way, if Prosch had better hands, they likely keep him.
Then get a good one.
 
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