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Kubiaks take on Carr
- Thread starter NFLforher
- Start date
vtech9
All Pro
Is Morrency worthless? How about Wells? If you take Reggie Bush, one if not both of them are gone. I didn't want Bush before watching the Rose Bowl, and definately don't want him now. If a college LB can cover him one on one, don't you think an NFL LB can? Bush proved that against equal talent, he isn't that good. He reminds me of a RB that we already have. Tony Hollings is also a fast RB that always tries to bounce to the outside. If Hollings had not been hurt in college, he probably would have had similar numbers to Bush. Is Hollings a great NFL RB now? I see Bush the same way. I'd pas on Bush if Young comes out or not.LikeABoss said:With Bush you would have the change of pace, take it the distance type running back. With Davis you would still have that power run between the tackles type running back. It would be a two-headed monster that teams would have to respect, which should open up the passing game so AJ can see less double teams. Domanick also wouldn't have to carry the load all the time, so that should keep him healthy.
Jus mytho.
run-david-run
All Pro
Yeah, i am pretty sure if he thought he had a better chance at winning as HC of the Texans with VY or Leinart, he would say that. It's not like we have to give anything up to get rid of Carr. Both Carr or the top pick would get simmillar money, obviously Kubiak feels Carr is the better option, i trust his opinions over yours...Kaiser Toro said:
tulexan
Hall of Fame
Kaiser Toro said:
I don't believe that is necessarily an accurate statement. For Kubiak, yes you could argue that we have watched them more than him. But he also sees a lot more than we do when he watches them and also has experience with the team during those three days when the Broncos were at our camp. Dungy has watched a lot of Texans film because twice a season he and the rest of the staff studies Texans film for probably 12 hours a day several days. Dan Reeves has been studying Texans film and watching practices constantly for a few weeks now as well. And the Texans org has watched every single game, watched every single practice, and has studied film to see where they are going wrong.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Runner said:
I do not doubt they know football more than anyone here. I would argue we have more of a finger on the pulse of what is needed for the Texans as a collective market.
pv1999
Waterboy
vtech9 said:
At best Bush could be another LT(Waco University High product), Marshall Faulk. I don't think he will be in the NFL long enough to get to Thurman Thomas (Willowridge product), Emmitt, Barry status. (notice the size simularities) He is not a NFL franchise back until he proves he can do it on this level. And by that definition, the Texans have no franchise backs.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
pv1999 said:
And we are not paying anyone franchise back money.
Kaiser Toro said:
I know what you mean. I just wonder if it so clear cut, why doesn't everyone on this board agree? Or is it just the "non finger on the pulse members" who disagree?
I personally haven't made up my mind on what I would do with the first pick. I see the downside of the 3 major options (Young, Bush, trade) and can't decide which is riskier. They all do, hard as it is to believe, have downside.
I'd just like to see more people keep an open mind. It seems battle lines are drawn, and no evidence of any sort can make anyone change their position. (Although it will change in an instant with hindsight). Most people here seem to like Kubiak, but when he says "Carr can be pretty good" or whatever, the response is he's in McNair's pocket. So which is it? Is Kubiak a good coach or a McNair yesman? It seems pretty inconsistent. I'd rather see a little glimmer in the vein of "Well, Kubiak might know what is talking about....", even if we don't agree in the end.
Caveat: I think Carr had great potential coming out of college and he may have been ruined beyond recovery since. I can see the sense in cutting him outright rather than risk signing him and hoping to trade him later. It would be great, IMO, if Kubiak was right, Dave succeeds, and that is a hole we didn't have to fill.
This isn't directed personnaly at you K.T. , Vinny, or other long time posters on this thread or any others who are down on Carr. Most of you guys have a history of having reasoning behind your positions and have been known to change given sufficient evidence. The board is just crazy right now.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
Runner said:
It is crazy and its is still early in the game with the first quarter finishing on 1/15 with college players having to declare and with our HC horefully in place on 1/16.
There is no doubt that it will continue to be crazy until Tagliabue actually sasys the words, "with the the first pick the....."
vtech9
All Pro
I think Carr still has a lot of potential, but after 4 years of the same, when do you draw the line? Some people never realize their potential.Runner said:I know what you mean. I just wonder if it so clear cut, why doesn't everyone on this board agree? Or is it just the "non finger on the pulse members" who disagree?
I personally haven't made up my mind on what I would do with the first pick. I see the downside of the 3 major options (Young, Bush, trade) and can't decide which is riskier. They all do, hard as it is to believe, have downside.
I'd just like to see more people keep an open mind. It seems battle lines are drawn, and no evidence of any sort can make anyone change their position. (Although it will change in an instant with hindsight). Most people here seem to like Kubiak, but when he says "Carr can be pretty good" or whatever, the response is he's in McNair's pocket. So which is it? Is Kubiak a good coach or a McNair yesman? It seems pretty inconsistent. I'd rather see a little glimmer in the vein of "Well, Kubiak might know what is talking about....", even if we don't agree in the end.
Caveat: I think Carr had great potential coming out of college and he may have been ruined beyond recovery since. I can see the sense in cutting him outright rather than risk signing him and hoping to trade him later. It would be great, IMO, if Kubiak was right, Dave succeeds, and that is a hole we didn't have to fill.
This isn't directed personnaly at you K.T. , Vinny, or other long time posters on this thread or any others who are down on Carr. Most of you guys have a history of having reasoning behind your positions and have been known to change given sufficient evidence. The board is just crazy right now.
I think Kubiak's comments about Carr are basically the same as every other coaching candidate's comments. They are giving the safe answer without saying one way or the other if Carr would be their guy. If I was interviewing for the HC job, I would say basically the same thing. Carr has alot of unrealized potential and needs a lot of work to meet that potential. Is that saying that Carr is the guy? Is it saying that Carr isn't? You don't know. You are all reading what you want out of a standard comment by an assistant coach that wants to be a head coach.
LikeABoss
Rookie
vtech9 said:
Morency? Morency is not half the player Bush is... Wells probably won't even be on the roster when a new coach comes in. USC definitely made a horrible coaching decision by not playing Bush down the stretch in that game. After he just scored that 26 yard rushing touchdown against Texas (that was USC's longest run by the way, Carrol just completely stopped using him. After he just scored the longest FRICKEN rushing TD for USC he just completely stopped using him.
The coaching decision not to use Bush as any kind of weapon after that TD just completely blew me away, and I just didn't understand it. I mean the dude just scored a fricken TD. He didn't even use Bush as a WR until Vince scored that game winning TD and USC was trying to mount a comeback with no time outs left because it was stupidly blown on that 2 pt conversion.
And if you call 13 carrries for 82 yards @ 6.3 yards per carry 1 TD with 6 catches for 95 yards @ 15.8 yards per catch being covered, then you must be one delusional person. Reggie Bush had more recieving yards than the Texas wide recievers. As for Hollings, he is not even relevant to this kind of talent, so you shouldn't even have mentioned him. I can care less how fast Hollings is, he clearly didn't get it done in college the way Bush has injuries or no injuries.
For three years Bush has proven himself and has gotten better every year. And I think that all this talk since the Rose Bowl about Reggie Bush not being good, is over hyped, and will be a bust because he can't run up the middle crap is gonna motivate him to do well and prove alot of people wrong. He will quiet alot of his critics when he wrecks havoc in the NFL you just wait and see.
jerek said:
Well said. Couldn't agree more. I also wonder if the VY love affair would so extreme on, and around, here if he was from somewhere other than this fine state. We saw it with DJ last year. Geeez, if you are from Texas and star at UT than you are simply the second coming. Gets tiresome.
J-Man
Waterboy
Jerek...
That's one of the most logical and objective posts I've seen in the last week. I've been around for bit here on the boards (in between sandy vactions courtesy of Uncle Sam) and I am almost amazed at the craziness over this offseason (draft, coaches, everything).
For the record I actually think we pick Bush (homerun ball carrier and instantly the 2nd best receiver) or drop down a couple slots and snag some quality O-line or dare I say AJ Hawk (best defensive player in draft). I think no matter how athletically gifted VY is he will have a very tough transition to the pro's primarily due to the type of offense he's ran for the last 3yrs. No matter where he goes VY will need a top flight QB mentor to help his transition.
That's one of the most logical and objective posts I've seen in the last week. I've been around for bit here on the boards (in between sandy vactions courtesy of Uncle Sam) and I am almost amazed at the craziness over this offseason (draft, coaches, everything).
For the record I actually think we pick Bush (homerun ball carrier and instantly the 2nd best receiver) or drop down a couple slots and snag some quality O-line or dare I say AJ Hawk (best defensive player in draft). I think no matter how athletically gifted VY is he will have a very tough transition to the pro's primarily due to the type of offense he's ran for the last 3yrs. No matter where he goes VY will need a top flight QB mentor to help his transition.
Goldeagle
Veteran
Anyone with any football knowledge, even a tad knows Carr has not gotten the protection he has needed from year one. Thank Casserly for saying it takes 3 years to develop a lineman and never drafting but using that excuse every year.
Even Tony Dungy said Peyton Manning could not do any better than Carr behind our O-line. Everyone except Pitts is a loser from another team, why do you think they let them go??
In any case, Carr is probably shell shocked, ruined by now because of Casserly, Palmer, and Capers. Trade Carr and Draft Young and get some excitement. Everyone knows Carr has talent, but can he be rebuilt?
Even Tony Dungy said Peyton Manning could not do any better than Carr behind our O-line. Everyone except Pitts is a loser from another team, why do you think they let them go??
In any case, Carr is probably shell shocked, ruined by now because of Casserly, Palmer, and Capers. Trade Carr and Draft Young and get some excitement. Everyone knows Carr has talent, but can he be rebuilt?
I watched the Rose Bowl for a second time tonight on ESPN Classic. Although Vince Young looked invincible, there is no way he would be able to do what he does in the NFL where players are faster than any he has ever played against. I was not as impressed with Bush either as being the next great back. Maybe a trade to get the lineman from VA. is the right thing to do.
Nighthawk
Rookie
HardKnockTexan said:
And the idea that Kubiak "coached" Elway and Young, while technically true, is probably an overstatement of Kubiak's role, don't you imagine? He was a QB who himself could not make it in the NFL and thus spent a great deal of time with a notebook on the sidelines. THereafter he made a swift transition into coaching at an early age.
I'm not saying he's not good, nor that he doesn't know anything about playing QB in the league, and he may be (probably is) a MUCH BETTER coach than he ever was a player, but you don't cite a couple of his approximate contemporaries who were HOF players as beneficiaries of Kubiak's coaching prowess. At that point he was more like holding their water bottles.
J-Man
Waterboy
Nighthawk said:
You have got to be kidding, right? As a former athlete that competed at the college and pro level and has done some coaching I might not be able to run a 4.3 40yrd dash...but I can sure build a training plan and guide another more physically talented guy to run that fast.
Most guys who compete at the level of Elway and Young in their prime have to have a talented and dedicated support and coaching staff, it's just that simple.
tulexan
Hall of Fame
Sounds like he is the kind of coach who really stresses hard work and preparation. Something this team really needs.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/artic...ports/s133451S26.DTL&hw=Kubiak&sn=001&sc=1000
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/artic...ports/s133451S26.DTL&hw=Kubiak&sn=001&sc=1000
Hervoyel
BUENO!
Hey "Likeaboss" i just wondered something. Well, two things actually.
1. You have the wrong name on your Vince Young avatar. Just thought I'd let you know that.
2. On your signature "Saints 4 Leinart in '06!" is that a final score? Did you really lose to Matt Leinhart 6-4 last season?
1. You have the wrong name on your Vince Young avatar. Just thought I'd let you know that.
2. On your signature "Saints 4 Leinart in '06!" is that a final score? Did you really lose to Matt Leinhart 6-4 last season?
edo783
Hall of Fame
tulexan said:
Good read. So far, I like everything about the guy. I live in the Denver area and it's been reported that the Broncos expect him to go and that he will take the O-line coach with him and one other, I think the WR coach. I like the idea of getting Denvers Oline coach in the deal.
eriadoc
Texan-American
Steve Young had his best year ever under Kubiak's tutelage. Elway put up two of his best statistical years and won two Super Bowls in Kubiak's offense (which also had plenty of other high points as well). After Elway, Brian Griese resembled a good QB under Kubiak's tutelage and did make the Pro Bowl. Plummer had a great year in all regards last year (4000+ yards, 27 TDs) except INTs. This season he finished with 7 interceptions against 18 TDs and a 90.2 passer rating on the season. Plummer's best season with arizona was a 79.6 passer rating. His worst rating with the Broncos is 84.5.
I think it's safe to say that Kubiak has gotten the best from his QBs during his coaching tenure.
I think it's safe to say that Kubiak has gotten the best from his QBs during his coaching tenure.
eriadoc
Texan-American
Nighthawk said:
Yeah, Young and Elway were really good on their own. But when Kubiak came in, those two players, who at that point were NOT Hall of Fame locks (maaayybe Elway, with 3 SB losses and marginal TD-INT ratio), had their best seasons EVEr under his coaching. Furthermore, his offenses have proven to be very prolific year after year after year, with even Griese or Plummer at the helm. With Olandis Gary and Mike anderson at the helm. Yeah, Kubiak's had some great players, but he's also turned some less-than-premium talent into premium performers. You have to give credit where it's due.
As to his status as a player ... honestly it has nothing whatsoever to do with his coaching ability. Some players have coaching skills and some do not. The best coaches in the NFL were not exceptional players in their own days. In actuality, Kubiak was a pretty decent QB that probably could have made a better run at it than some of the modern-day guys if there were such a thing as free agency back then, because he wasn't supplanting Elway - no one was.
J-Man
Waterboy
If playing ability had any direct correlation to coaching ability then probably about half of the HCs in the NFL wouldn't have ever gotten hired (see Bill Cowher, Jeff Fisher, and Herm Edwards).
Also...how about guys like Charley Wiess...he never played a down or college football.
Kubes potential as a coach is not tied to the fact that he was a career back-up. In fact if you survive 8yrs in the league period that shows that you have something on the ball as a player anyway.
Also...how about guys like Charley Wiess...he never played a down or college football.
Kubes potential as a coach is not tied to the fact that he was a career back-up. In fact if you survive 8yrs in the league period that shows that you have something on the ball as a player anyway.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
eriadoc said:
I think this is more of a case of someone referencing Young and Elway and implying that Kubiak had something to do with the development of these two established all-pro players, which was not the case. If Plummer and Griese were inserted instead, this would have been a moot point.
I think you will find few who do not want Kubiak, but there are many that want truth in advertising.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
J-Man said:
I agree. The guys that practice everyday and taste the drills, but who sit on the sidelines during the games and see the execution or lack thereof get a much better gauge of the game. You develop cereberally rather than emotionally.
eriadoc
Texan-American
Kaiser Toro said:
I agree to a point, but I also believe that Kubiak did have something to do with their development. He helped Young and Elway go from "Pro Bowl, All-World" QB to "Hall of Fame, Super Bowl-winning, finally took that next step" QBs. As I pointed out previously, those QBs were damn good on their own, but there's no questioning the fact that they each had their best years under Kubiak's tutelage. Kubiak's work with Griese and Plummer just confirms, to me, that those years weren't aberrations. He helped all four QBs take that next step - it's just that the next step for Young and Elway was further along than the other two.
MorKnolle
All Pro
Kubiak likes Carr, and I think Kubiak is going to be our next coach, and I think as a former QB and a good offensive coordinator that Kubiak will help Carr progress to where he should be and will run an doffense that Carr can put up some great numbers in. Another interesting question though, Kubiak and Denver have never taken a RB in the 1st round, and with three capable RBs already on our team, would bringing Kubiak in mean that we'd be more likely to trade down from the top pick (which I'm a fan of anyways)? Here's a look at Denver's draft picks with Shanahan/Kubiak running the team:
2005
Darrent Williams (CB, 2nd, 56)
Karl Paymah (CB, 3rd, 76)
Domonique Foxworth (CB, 3rd, 97)
Maurice Clarett (RB, 3rd, 101)
Chris Myers (OG, 6th, 200)
Paul Ernester (P, 7th, 239)
2004
D.J. Williams (LB, 1st, 17)
Tatum Bell (RB, 2nd, 41)
Darius Watts (WR, 2nd, 54)
Jeremy LeSueur (DB, 3rd, 85)
Jeff Shoate (CB, 5th, 152)
Triandos Luke (WR, 6th 171)
Josh Sewell (C, 5th 190)
Matt Mauck (QB, 7th, 225)
Brandon Miree (RB, 7th, 247)
Bradlee Van Pelt (QB 7th, 250)
2003
George Foster (OT, 1st, 20)
Terry Pierce (LB, 2nd, 51)
Quentin Griffin (RB, 4th, 108)
Nick Eason (DT, 4th, 114)
Bryant McNeal (DE, 4th, 128)
Ben Claxton (C, 5th, 157)
Adrian Madise (WR, 5th, 158)
Aaron Hunt (DE, 6th, 194)
Clint Mitchell (DE, 7th, 227)
Ahmaad Galloway (RB, 7th, 235)
2002
Ashley Lelie (WR, 1st, 19)
Clinton Portis (RB, 2nd, 51)
Dorsett Davis (DT, 3rd, 96)
Sam Brandon (FS, 4th, 131)
Herb Haygood (WR, 5th, 144)
Jeb Putzier (TE, 6th, 191)
Chris Young (SS, 7th, 228)
Monsanto Pope (DT, 7th, 231)
2001
Willie Middlebrooks (CB, 1st, 24)
Paul Toviessi (DE, 2nd, 51)
Reggie Hayward (DE, 3rd, 87)
Ben Hamilton (OG, 4th, 113)
Nick Harris (P, 4th, 120)
Kevin Kasper (WR, 6th, 190)
2000
Deltha O'Neal (CB, 1st, 15)
Ian Gold (LB, 2nd, 40)
Kenoy Kennedy (SS, 2nd, 45)
Chris Cole (WR, 3rd, 70)
Jerry Johnson (DT, 4th, 101)
Cooper Carlisle (OG, 4th, 112)
Muneer Moore (WR, 5th, 154)
Mike Anderson (FB/RB, 5th, 189)
Jarious Jackson (QB, 7th, 214)
Leroy Fields (WR, 7th, 246)
1999
Al Wilson (LB, 1st, 31)
Montae Reagor (DT, 2nd, 58)
Lennie Friedman (OC, 2nd, 61)
Chris Watson (CB, 3rd, 67)
Travis McGriff (WR, 3rd, 93)
Olandis Gary (RB, 4th, 127)
David Bowens (DE, 5th, 158)
Darwin Brown (CB, 5th, 167)
Desmond Clark (TE, 6th, 179)
Chad Plummer (WR, 6th, 204)
Billy Miller (TE, 7th, 218)
Justin Swift (TE, 7th, 238)
1998
Marcus Nash (WR, 1st, 30)
Eric Brown (SS, 2nd, 61)
Brian Griese (QB, 3rd, 91)
Curtis Alexander (RB, 4th, 122)
Chris Howard (RB, 5th, 153)
Trey Teague (OC, 7th, 200)
Nate Wayne (LB, 7th, 219)
1997
Trevor Pryce (DE, 1st, 28)
Dan Neil (OG, 3rd, 67)
Cory Gilliard (S, 4th, 124)
1996
John Mobley (LB, 1st, 15)
Tory James (CB, 2nd, 44)
Detron Smith (FB, 3rd, 65)
Mark Campbell (DT, 3rd, 78)
Jeff Lewis (QB, 4th, 100)
Darrius Johnson (DB, 4th, 122)
Patrick Jeffers (WR, 5th, 159)
Tony Veland (DB, 6th, 181)
Leslie Ratliffe (OT, 7th, 213)
Chris Banks (OG, 7th, 226)
L.T. Levine (RB, 7th, 235)
Brian Gragert (P, 7th, 236)
1995
Jamie Brown (OT, 4th, 121)
Ken Brown (LB, 4th, 124)
Phil Yeboah-Kodie (LB, 5th, 146)
Fritz Fequiere (OG, 6th, 182)
Terrell Davis (RB, 6th, 196)
Steve Russ (LB, 7th, 218)
Byron Chamberlain (TE, 7th, 222)
A couple patterns that I noticed (granted Shanahan was in control of the team, but Kubiak is his protege):
1st round picks 2 WR, 1 OT, 1 DE, 3 LB, 2 CB - No QBs (granted they had Elway for the first couple years) or RBs in the 1st round.
2nd round picks: 2 RB, 1 WR, 1 OC, 1 DE, 2 LB, 2 CB, 2 S
3rd round picks: 1 QB, 1 RB, 1 FB, 1 WR, 1 OG, 1 DE, 1 DT, 3 CB,
Denver has a habit of making many trades, several including draft picks. They also generally are very good at finding talent in later rounds of the draft, and with their zone blocking they've been able to make 1000 yard rushers out of almost anyone, so Kubiak coming here may swing the team more towards trading down from the #1 pick to look for capable OLinemen for his offensive system and defensive players. I think Domanick Davis could be like Terrell Davis that they had great success with (decent speed but not great, good vision, pretty powerful runner), Jonathan Wells could be like Mike Anderson (big, bruising RB), and Vernand Morency could be like Olandis Gary (little faster than Davis, kind of a mixture of RBs), not to mention they traded Clinton Portis (who some could compare Reggie Bush to) for the best CB in the league because they knew they could run the ball effectively with several other RBs. Another note, Dan Neil was successful in Denver for many years and is still a free agent, so if he can prove that he is healthy Kubiak might bring him with him.
2005
Darrent Williams (CB, 2nd, 56)
Karl Paymah (CB, 3rd, 76)
Domonique Foxworth (CB, 3rd, 97)
Maurice Clarett (RB, 3rd, 101)
Chris Myers (OG, 6th, 200)
Paul Ernester (P, 7th, 239)
2004
D.J. Williams (LB, 1st, 17)
Tatum Bell (RB, 2nd, 41)
Darius Watts (WR, 2nd, 54)
Jeremy LeSueur (DB, 3rd, 85)
Jeff Shoate (CB, 5th, 152)
Triandos Luke (WR, 6th 171)
Josh Sewell (C, 5th 190)
Matt Mauck (QB, 7th, 225)
Brandon Miree (RB, 7th, 247)
Bradlee Van Pelt (QB 7th, 250)
2003
George Foster (OT, 1st, 20)
Terry Pierce (LB, 2nd, 51)
Quentin Griffin (RB, 4th, 108)
Nick Eason (DT, 4th, 114)
Bryant McNeal (DE, 4th, 128)
Ben Claxton (C, 5th, 157)
Adrian Madise (WR, 5th, 158)
Aaron Hunt (DE, 6th, 194)
Clint Mitchell (DE, 7th, 227)
Ahmaad Galloway (RB, 7th, 235)
2002
Ashley Lelie (WR, 1st, 19)
Clinton Portis (RB, 2nd, 51)
Dorsett Davis (DT, 3rd, 96)
Sam Brandon (FS, 4th, 131)
Herb Haygood (WR, 5th, 144)
Jeb Putzier (TE, 6th, 191)
Chris Young (SS, 7th, 228)
Monsanto Pope (DT, 7th, 231)
2001
Willie Middlebrooks (CB, 1st, 24)
Paul Toviessi (DE, 2nd, 51)
Reggie Hayward (DE, 3rd, 87)
Ben Hamilton (OG, 4th, 113)
Nick Harris (P, 4th, 120)
Kevin Kasper (WR, 6th, 190)
2000
Deltha O'Neal (CB, 1st, 15)
Ian Gold (LB, 2nd, 40)
Kenoy Kennedy (SS, 2nd, 45)
Chris Cole (WR, 3rd, 70)
Jerry Johnson (DT, 4th, 101)
Cooper Carlisle (OG, 4th, 112)
Muneer Moore (WR, 5th, 154)
Mike Anderson (FB/RB, 5th, 189)
Jarious Jackson (QB, 7th, 214)
Leroy Fields (WR, 7th, 246)
1999
Al Wilson (LB, 1st, 31)
Montae Reagor (DT, 2nd, 58)
Lennie Friedman (OC, 2nd, 61)
Chris Watson (CB, 3rd, 67)
Travis McGriff (WR, 3rd, 93)
Olandis Gary (RB, 4th, 127)
David Bowens (DE, 5th, 158)
Darwin Brown (CB, 5th, 167)
Desmond Clark (TE, 6th, 179)
Chad Plummer (WR, 6th, 204)
Billy Miller (TE, 7th, 218)
Justin Swift (TE, 7th, 238)
1998
Marcus Nash (WR, 1st, 30)
Eric Brown (SS, 2nd, 61)
Brian Griese (QB, 3rd, 91)
Curtis Alexander (RB, 4th, 122)
Chris Howard (RB, 5th, 153)
Trey Teague (OC, 7th, 200)
Nate Wayne (LB, 7th, 219)
1997
Trevor Pryce (DE, 1st, 28)
Dan Neil (OG, 3rd, 67)
Cory Gilliard (S, 4th, 124)
1996
John Mobley (LB, 1st, 15)
Tory James (CB, 2nd, 44)
Detron Smith (FB, 3rd, 65)
Mark Campbell (DT, 3rd, 78)
Jeff Lewis (QB, 4th, 100)
Darrius Johnson (DB, 4th, 122)
Patrick Jeffers (WR, 5th, 159)
Tony Veland (DB, 6th, 181)
Leslie Ratliffe (OT, 7th, 213)
Chris Banks (OG, 7th, 226)
L.T. Levine (RB, 7th, 235)
Brian Gragert (P, 7th, 236)
1995
Jamie Brown (OT, 4th, 121)
Ken Brown (LB, 4th, 124)
Phil Yeboah-Kodie (LB, 5th, 146)
Fritz Fequiere (OG, 6th, 182)
Terrell Davis (RB, 6th, 196)
Steve Russ (LB, 7th, 218)
Byron Chamberlain (TE, 7th, 222)
A couple patterns that I noticed (granted Shanahan was in control of the team, but Kubiak is his protege):
1st round picks 2 WR, 1 OT, 1 DE, 3 LB, 2 CB - No QBs (granted they had Elway for the first couple years) or RBs in the 1st round.
2nd round picks: 2 RB, 1 WR, 1 OC, 1 DE, 2 LB, 2 CB, 2 S
3rd round picks: 1 QB, 1 RB, 1 FB, 1 WR, 1 OG, 1 DE, 1 DT, 3 CB,
Denver has a habit of making many trades, several including draft picks. They also generally are very good at finding talent in later rounds of the draft, and with their zone blocking they've been able to make 1000 yard rushers out of almost anyone, so Kubiak coming here may swing the team more towards trading down from the #1 pick to look for capable OLinemen for his offensive system and defensive players. I think Domanick Davis could be like Terrell Davis that they had great success with (decent speed but not great, good vision, pretty powerful runner), Jonathan Wells could be like Mike Anderson (big, bruising RB), and Vernand Morency could be like Olandis Gary (little faster than Davis, kind of a mixture of RBs), not to mention they traded Clinton Portis (who some could compare Reggie Bush to) for the best CB in the league because they knew they could run the ball effectively with several other RBs. Another note, Dan Neil was successful in Denver for many years and is still a free agent, so if he can prove that he is healthy Kubiak might bring him with him.
McNair cannot afford to lose with Bush. Houstonians will lose interest just like they did this season. The empty seats hurt the bottom line. He has absolutely nothing to lose finaincially if he takes VY. He will increase his fanbase in Texas exponentially. If he takes Bush, this franchise will never compete with the Cowboys for new fans.
groutfulone
Practice Squad
Wordem said:
Yep.
With Bush, Carr and Kubiak they may make the playoffs. With Young, they will eventually win a Super Bowl. If Kubiak can turn a pretty good QB into a pro-bowler, imagine what he could do with a sick freak of nature like Young: turn him into an unbelievable legend of Jordan and Tiger stature?
Bush will not make the Texans into a better team than Young would and why would you pass on a player who may potentially dominate the NFL; who is from Houston and who excites players, fans and opponents. Bush is just a utility back.
TEXANRED
Texan-American
The impressions that I was getting before the Rose Bowl, NFL scouts were looking at Vince as more of a wide receiver than a QB in the NFL. (The little bit that I have read here and there so if anyone has anything to add to that, and I am sure there will be, I would be greatfull)So then he goes out and has a good game against a horribly called Vic Fangio style defense all of a sudden he is a Tiger Woods, an MJ. Really?
I must admit, I am a huge Carr supporter. I have over these last few years battled and argued the case of Carr not only at home, at work, and on this very board. Listening to the people who with great conviction evaluate his talent level and write him off as a bust. Now these very same people are just as passionate about Young as they are against Carr. I must admitt I am awed by some of what is said. Some on this board, at home, at work would like nothing more than to roll Young under the bus and hear his head skip across the ground much like Carr has for the last four years.
Carr is finaly going to get (if kubiack comes to houston)a real coach who knows how to teach a QB to play the position. Look at his coachs for the last four years, Palmer who ruined Couch's career, Pendry, and Capers. Could anyone have a success under those three?
Carr is much like Plummer. Kubiack was able to turn things around for him and I belive he can do the same for Carr. Not to mention the guy who made zone blocking in the NFL famous would be the same guy who would be coaching this team. With the zone block ran correctly there would be plenty of space for Reggie to run around in. Reggie can only run in space seems to be the only thing any Young supporter can say positive about him, well there ya go, he will have space.
I must admit, I am a huge Carr supporter. I have over these last few years battled and argued the case of Carr not only at home, at work, and on this very board. Listening to the people who with great conviction evaluate his talent level and write him off as a bust. Now these very same people are just as passionate about Young as they are against Carr. I must admitt I am awed by some of what is said. Some on this board, at home, at work would like nothing more than to roll Young under the bus and hear his head skip across the ground much like Carr has for the last four years.
Carr is finaly going to get (if kubiack comes to houston)a real coach who knows how to teach a QB to play the position. Look at his coachs for the last four years, Palmer who ruined Couch's career, Pendry, and Capers. Could anyone have a success under those three?
Carr is much like Plummer. Kubiack was able to turn things around for him and I belive he can do the same for Carr. Not to mention the guy who made zone blocking in the NFL famous would be the same guy who would be coaching this team. With the zone block ran correctly there would be plenty of space for Reggie to run around in. Reggie can only run in space seems to be the only thing any Young supporter can say positive about him, well there ya go, he will have space.
bayshorebevo
Waterboy
david is a great guy and i assumed we were taking bush because vince was going back to school. the one thing that vince is, all talent issues aside, is a bonafide winner that carried the horns on his back every big game following the mizzou game last yr (except for a&m game this yr, they almost beat us). i really like david, but i've seen every houston texan as well as every horn play for years and i haven't seen david carry us on his back once. vince has the intangible, the never-say-die attitude that hardly anybody else has.