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Kubiak's Next Destination

JB said:
My theory is that they just choked from trying to shine too much
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How do you choke for an entire game or an entire half though? One thing I loved about watching the Texans this season was watching a team that always looked inspired and ready to go to me. This team won most of the games I expected them to win, and lost the games I felt they should lose on paper. Give or take a game or two. Every game but one or two was very close that they lost, and they were a boring, yet loving team to me. I can walk away proud of this Texans team. With Gary's teams it was always extreme disappointment and disgust after every season of what I would witness and see throughout the season. I'd see so many wasted opportunities and games where the team lacked aggression. I'd see that crap where they'd play great for one half all of the time, and hated the fact that Kubiak hated to make adjustments based on who they'd play and who he had to utilize. He just didn't like to deviate away from his comfort zone, and I don't ever want to root for a football team that has a coach like that.
 
infantrycak said:
Link
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WTF is up with Woody Paige's hair? :lol:

And did they pull Dreessen out of Keenum's deer blind for this?

Note that Dreessen became relevant as a TE with Gary. Drafted by Jets. But no doubt there were guys who loved Gary. He's a good guy. He didn't work his guys as hard or as much as some other teams.

But how did Elway let it go so long if Fox was that bad? And why did he get a third gig?

Always said Gary was a Top 5 OC, but every so often that offense could get out-coached and he wouldn't have a counter. He just lost the script here with Schaub. Gary I think will shine in Denver with a strong GM and that stretch ZBS at altitude. If they don't hire him so that Peyton can compile one more year of impressive numbers they're wrong, imo.
 
Texecutioner said:
How do you choke for an entire game or an entire half though? One thing I loved about watching the Texans this season was watching a team that always looked inspired and ready to go to me. This team won most of the games I expected them to win, and lost the games I felt they should lose on paper. Give or take a game or two. Every game but one or two was very close that they lost, and they were a boring, yet loving team to me. I can walk away proud of this Texans team. With Gary's teams it was always extreme disappointment and disgust after every season of what I would witness and see throughout the season. I'd see so many wasted opportunities and games where the team lacked aggression. I'd see that crap where they'd play great for one half all of the time, and hated the fact that Kubiak hated to make adjustments based on who they'd play and who he had to utilize. He just didn't like to deviate away from his comfort zone, and I don't ever want to root for a football team that has a coach like that.
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I can agree with most all of this. I think one of Gary's weaknesses was the belief that if only it could be executed properly then his system was just fine and his game plans would work. No adjustments necessary or wanted. It's what was the doom of the team when Schaub lost it...
 
As far as how they could choke the entire game or half away? Same reason the Oilers had the loss to Buffalo in the second half. Players quit trusting their teammates to do their job and started trying to do more than theirs, or trying make a big play every play (the Hopkins syndrome).
 
steelbtexan said:
All of this makes me wonder why Gary's teams failed when the bright lights came on. They froze up on national TV games. That much isn't debatable.
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I think because Kubiak stressed doing their job because it's their job. To the other team, it was always more than just a game.

One thing I do like about OB is that he gives them reasons to play well. Playing for the fans, I never felt like Kubiak thought it was important to "win" for the fans. That Ben Tate comment about fans being wishy-washy, I don't think OB would have let him say that.

Fitzpatrick's speech... about how that game meant something to him... I don't think Kubiak encouraged the players to internalize that much.

With OBrien, this game is important because of that. That game is important because of this.... Kubiak, it's just another game. Division game, yeah they're important, but it's just one of sixteen.

I think OB will have these guys playing for something bigger than themselves soon enough.
 
JB said:
As far as how they could choke the entire game or half away? Same reason the Oilers had the loss to Buffalo in the second half. Players quit trusting their teammates to do their job and started trying to do more than theirs, or trying make a big play every play (the Hopkins syndrome).
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Or the Dj syndrome...

Like remember when Dj saw no one covering a RB out wide & he kept trying to get the LB lined up over him? He was right, but OB came out & said... it didn't matter. What's important was that someone needed to get out there & cover that guy.

Teams like the Oilers, or Gary's team, they'd continue to focus on trying to find another mistake or on their alignment & lose focus on defending the field, or catching the ball, or backside contain.
 
JB said:
As far as how they could choke the entire game or half away? Same reason the Oilers had the loss to Buffalo in the second half. Players quit trusting their teammates to do their job and started trying to do more than theirs, or trying make a big play every play (the Hopkins syndrome).
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Interesting you bring up the Oilers in this, and I think it is to far removed from the history as an example, but then again maybe it isn't. Jack Pardee was the HC at that time, and Pardee was exactly like Kubiak in my eyes. SAME TYPE OF GUY. I hated Pardee as a kid. Even at that age I could tell that he was soft and not a strong enough leader. His body language showed that, and the illustrious Oilers had that one season that had problems all over it that wouldn't stop under his leadership. The Buddy Ryan punch and then his endless comments that wouldn't stop against Gilbride, the baby gate problem with that Olineman, the car accident with the death, the beat down that Tillman took from Lamar Lathan. That team had so much talent and still won despite those odds, but Pardee couldn't keep that team and that staff under control. When you look back on that now, it isn't surprising at all that Pardee couldn't get that team to a SB. He lacked that intensity to make people follow his lead and his direction. His approach was to passive, and there are to many guys on a football team with two many assignments at all times to have a guy in charge that the majority of that team doesn't want to die for.
 
thunderkyss said:
Or the Dj syndrome...

Like remember when Dj saw no one covering a RB out wide & he kept trying to get the LB lined up over him? He was right, but OB came out & said... it didn't matter. What's important was that someone needed to get out there & cover that guy.

Teams like the Oilers, or Gary's team, they'd continue to focus on trying to find another mistake or on their alignment & lose focus on defending the field, or catching the ball, or backside contain.
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yeah I meant Swearinger... my bad
 
Texecutioner said:
Interesting you bring up the Oilers in this, and I think it is to far removed from the history as an example, but then again maybe it isn't. Jack Pardee was the HC at that time, and Pardee was exactly like Kubiak in my eyes. SAME TYPE OF GUY. I hated Pardee as a kid. Even at that age I could tell that he was soft and not a strong enough leader. His body language showed that, and the illustrious Oilers had that one season that had problems all over it that wouldn't stop under his leadership. The Buddy Ryan punch and then his endless comments that wouldn't stop against Gilbride, the baby gate problem with that Olineman, the car accident with the death, the beat down that Tillman took from Lamar Lathan. That team had so much talent and still won despite those odds, but Pardee couldn't keep that team and that staff under control. When you look back on that now, it isn't surprising at all that Pardee couldn't get that team to a SB. He lacked that intensity to make people follow his lead and his direction. His approach was to passive, and there are to many guys on a football team with two many assignments at all times to have a guy in charge that the majority of that team doesn't want to die for.
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What do Kubiak/Pardee have in common?

It's a mindset
 
infantrycak said:
In public. In the locker room when players have talked (as opposed to fan speculation) Kubiak has been described as a detail oriented hard ass. But that doesn't fit the plot...
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Yeah that's my understanding..
 
Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter
Ravens OC Gary Kubiak plans to take Broncos HC job if it is offered to him, per sources.

Kubiak is believed to be Denver's No. 1 head-coaching candidate, so now it will be up to both sides, Kubiak and the Broncos, to share their football philosophies and reach an agreement when they meet today in Houston, where Kubiak lives.

However, no announcement of any deal Is expected until Tuesday, after today's conference championship games and after Monday's Martin Luther King holiday. But all signs now point to Kubiak being named Broncos head coach Tuesday.
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Talk of Vance Joseph as DC, which would show to me mean Gary having more influence. If I were Elway, I'd be looking at Jim Schwartz for Peyton's last SB run. I do think Joseph has a chance to be good, but might have some growing pains.

Congrats to Gary. Have fun with the forehead.
 
Playoffs said:
Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter


Talk of Vance Joseph as DC, which would show to me mean Gary having more influence. If I were Elway, I'd be looking at Jim Schwartz for Peyton's last SB run. I do think Joseph has a chance to be good, but might have some growing pains.

Congrats to Gary. Have fun with the forehead.
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Yeah, I think that would work better. Not sure if Schwartz would be that guy, but a defensive minded guy that could put in a decent OC to help Manning out some especially if Mannning breaks down at the end of the year. Problem with that scenario is that the Broncos just had that situation with the guy they just let go, and it still didn't work. I'm sorry, but the losses from the Broncos in the last two playoffs weren't due mainly to the HC's defense. The offense in both of those losses failed pretty badly. A lot of it was Manning. Denver's coach should not have been fired. He has done a fantastic job since he has been there. He even got that Tebow led Broncos team in the playoffs and they won a freaking game if I remember correctly. The guy has been to two SB's with two different teams now and barely came up short to Brady in one of them where Brady had the ball last to get the last score to win the game. Denver was foolish to fire their coach to me.
 
Playoffs said:
Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter


Talk of Vance Joseph as DC, which would show to me mean Gary having more influence. If I were Elway, I'd be looking at Jim Schwartz for Peyton's last SB run. I do think Joseph has a chance to be good, but might have some growing pains.

Congrats to Gary. Have fun with the forehead.
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Texecutioner said:
Yeah, I think that would work better. Not sure if Schwartz would be that guy, but a defensive minded guy that could put in a decent OC to help Manning out some especially if Mannning breaks down at the end of the year. Problem with that scenario is that the Broncos just had that situation with the guy they just let go, and it still didn't work. I'm sorry, but the losses from the Broncos in the last two playoffs weren't due mainly to the HC's defense. The offense in both of those losses failed pretty badly. A lot of it was Manning. Denver's coach should not have been fired. He has done a fantastic job since he has been there. He even got that Tebow led Broncos team in the playoffs and they won a freaking game if I remember correctly. The guy has been to two SB's with two different teams now and barely came up short to Brady in one of them where Brady had the ball last to get the last score to win the game. Denver was foolish to fire their coach to me.
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I believe he's talking about Schwartz as DC, not HC
 
Playoffs said:
Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter


Talk of Vance Joseph as DC, which would show to me mean Gary having more influence. If I were Elway, I'd be looking at Jim Schwartz for Peyton's last SB run. I do think Joseph has a chance to be good, but might have some growing pains.

Congrats to Gary. Have fun with the forehead.
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Not disputing your point on influence just spinning off - before the last game Elway made an unusually clear statement on personnel, IIRC "I have control of who joins the roster and I have control of the final 53."

I'd be surprised if he doesn't have some strong opinions on the coordinators. But Joseph has been talked about for years now as a guy ready to make the jump.
 
I don't understand the dichotomy of Kubiak.

A guy like Joel Dressen has he would run through a wall for Kubiak, but the Texans would come out slow, look unprepared, and the worst, play with very little toughness. How does a guy that engenders loyalty like Kubiak produce such a soft team?

Then, we talk about how predictable and vanilla his offense could be, with little to no adjustments when his plan wasn't working. Yet he's hailed around the league as a great OC.

Can someone step me through all of this? Are my perceptions wrong?
 
infantrycak said:
Not disputing your point on influence just spinning off - before the last game Elway made an unusually clear statement on personnel, IIRC "I have control of who joins the roster and I have control of the final 53."

I'd be surprised if he doesn't have some strong opinions on the coordinators. But Joseph has been talked about for years now as a guy ready to make the jump.
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I wish somebody on the Texans would come out and say something like Elway did.

This is going to be a big mistake by Elway. A team with SB aspirations with a rookie DC, what could go wrong. Looking at you Frank Bush/Richard Smith.
 
IlliniJen said:
Then, we talk about how predictable and vanilla his offense could be, with little to no adjustments when his plan wasn't working. Yet he's hailed around the league as a great OC.

Can someone step me through all of this? Are my perceptions wrong?
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When teams lose it is almost universal to hear fans start talking about how the offense is predictable and no adjustments are made. It's like clockwork. You can almost write the script of generic fan criticisms for any team with those and - undisciplined, not prepared, outcoached, soft, lost the team, etc.

The reaction of the league is a good check on those comments. Are the coaches like Joe Pendry or Frank Bush who go home to the couch or demoted to never be considered again like Richard Smith or are they sought after for the position again like Kubiak.

That's not to say the teams letting the latter coaches go are making mistakes. Just that fan comments are often inaccurate or at odds with the opinions of the folks who get paid the big bucks to make these evaluations.
 
infantrycak said:
When teams lose it is almost universal to hear fans start talking about how the offense is predictable and no adjustments are made. It's like clockwork. You can almost write the script of generic fan criticisms for any team with those and - undisciplined, not prepared, outcoached, soft, lost the team, etc.

The reaction of the league is a good check on those comments. Are the coaches like Joe Pendry or Frank Bush who go home to the couch or demoted to never be considered again like Richard Smith or are they sought after for the position again like Kubiak.
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Gary's offense wasn't the problem. IMHO When Schaub predictably fell off a cliff Gary was done in Houston.

My problem with Gary was his inability to make in game adjustments and his propensity to sit on leads. Also a team will never win a SB simply by playing the odds. Sometimes you have to put on your big boy pants and take chances
 
I don't understand this hire if this is what the Broncos decide to do. They fired Fox because he couldn't get the team over the hump and hire a guy who couldn't get a talented Houston team over the hump. In fact, he couldn't do anything in Houston before Manning left and after Luck arrived. What's the upside here?

They have a rebuild coming soon. They would be better off going after a younger guy with upside than another retread who's never been able to win anything of substance.
 
I agree about Schaub. Also on sitting on leads although that's a catch 22 for coaches because if they get aggressive and end up letting a team back in like say the Oilers, then the coach is the dumbest SOB ever for not running out the clock.

In game adjustments I think are another largely generic criticism which is more code for **** didn't work. I saw lots of games where one drive or quarter would be almost all run and then another would be all passing and then another they would go muddle huddle. And two comments frequently made don't go together - no adjustments and the Texans would only play a half of football. If you look at those halves they frequently were played different than the other half.

The other team only played one good half of football as well. It's not that there were no adjustments, it's the final result on whose were better. Last year it wasn't us. Prior years it had been most games with notable failings against the best teams. Clearly something Kubiak needs to work on.
 
Texecutioner said:
Denver's coach should not have been fired. He has done a fantastic job since he has been there. He even got that Tebow led Broncos team in the playoffs and they won a freaking game if I remember correctly.
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I'm pretty sure that was Josh McDaniel's that won a play off game with Tebow.
 
infantrycak said:
First season with Fox. They won the division at 8-8. McDaniels never made the playoffs.
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Gotcha... I thought shipping off Tebow was the first thing Elway did there. Hard to believe that was the 2011 season, seems like such a long time ago.
 
thunderkyss said:
Gotcha... I thought shipping off Tebow was the first thing Elway did there. Hard to believe that was the 2011 season, seems like such a long time ago.
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It was Elway's first year as top man, I think they got rid of him after the post season
 
Playoffs said:
Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter


Talk of Vance Joseph as DC, which would show to me mean Gary having more influence. If I were Elway, I'd be looking at Jim Schwartz for Peyton's last SB run. I do think Joseph has a chance to be good, but might have some growing pains.

Congrats to Gary. Have fun with the forehead.
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Has Dick Lebeau been hired by anyone yet? If not, I'd go with him.
 
WolverineFan said:
I don't understand this hire if this is what the Broncos decide to do. They fired Fox because he couldn't get the team over the hump and hire a guy who couldn't get a talented Houston team over the hump. In fact, he couldn't do anything in Houston before Manning left and after Luck arrived. What's the upside here?

They have a rebuild coming soon. They would be better off going after a younger guy with upside than another retread who's never been able to win anything of substance.
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two things
1. I don't think this was a "can't get over the hump" decision by Elway. From what I've heard it was a Fox isn't enough of a motivator for Elway's taste. Reference the fact that somewhere along the game 8, 9, or 10, Elway felt HE had to give the team a "get fired up" speech because Fox wasn't doing it. Now Elway's known Kubiak since forever. If Kubiak, was as mamby-pamby as he's been painted at times on this board, Elway would have no use for him.

2. If, as you say, Denver has a rebuild coming then who better to perform that rebuild, among the available HC-ing prospects, than a guy who cut his head coaching teeth rebuilding the Texans into "Denver-south"?

and don't forget "retreads" sometimes do better the second time around
It's easy to forget that future Hall of Famer Bill Belichick was a failure as a first-time coach in Cleveland before he was fired after the 1995 season. Since arriving in New England in 2000, Belichick has coached in five Super Bowls, winning three, and the Pats can win another AFC title Sunday by beating Indianapolis.

Seattle coach Pete Carroll, hoping to hoist a second consecutive Vince Lombardi Trophy in two weeks, was fired by the Jets and Patriots before flourishing in the Pacific Northwest.

The Raiders fired Mike Shanahan, only to see him win two Super Bowls as coach of the AFC West rival Broncos in back-to-back seasons.

Since Tom Coughlin was sent packing by the Jags after the 2002 season, he has led the Giants to a pair of Super Bowl wins, upsetting Belichick's Patriots each time.

The do-over formula is far from perfect, however.

Ex-Bucs assistant Herm Edwards made the playoffs three times in five years with the Jets, but when Edwards moved on to Kansas City, the Chiefs went 6-26 in his final two seasons there.

Eric Mangini, fired by the Jets after the 2008 season, fizzled in Cleveland, going 10-22 before being asked to turn in his security card.
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Then there's Dungy who got his ring in his second chance with the Colts and Gruden who got his ring with his second chance with the Dungy-built Buccs.

Like draft picks no HC hire is guaranteed to yield a super bowl or three. But hiring retreads has worked before. We'll have to hide and watch.
 
Gary Kubiak must be a big deal because the Broncos are going to him.

Joe Ellis and John Elway are leading a Broncos contingent that will interview Kubiak Sunday in Houston, where Kubiak lives, according to an NFL source. Ellis, the Broncos' chief executive officer and president, and Elway, the team's director of football operations and general manager, clearly have decided Kubiak is their top candidate to replace John Fox as head coach.
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http:http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/c...t.com/broncos/ci_27344956/broncos-gary-kubiak
 
When you think about the fact that Denver is not going to get more than 2 years out of Manning and they already have their heir apparent, it makes perfect sense for Elway to want Kubiak working with Osweiler for as long as Manning stays. At least from Elway's perspective of thinking Kubiak is a great QB mentor.
 
infantrycak said:
When you think about the fact that Denver is not going to get more than 2 years out of Manning and they already have their heir apparent...
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Do they? Osweiler has never been under fire and is an UFA after next season. Very similar to the Mallett situation.
 
I'm glad Kubiak is no longer the HC of the Houston Texans. I was disappointed in the timing though. I'm not a Kubiak lover, I'm not a hater. I don't want him to get the job in Denver, don't care if he stays in Baltimore, wouldn't be scared if he got a job in the AFC South.

I do believe this team... this organization is in a much better place than what it was when he got here. In his time here we've gone from failed expansion team to division champ, once considered the favored team in the AFC, back to no less than second in the division.

I think it will be interesting to see Kubiak handed a Super Bowl contending team. I honestly can't imagine what he brings to a team with Peyton Manning on offense. But it'll be interesting to see.
 
Lucky said:
Do they? Osweiler has never been under fire and is an UFA after next season. Very similar to the Mallett situation.
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It would make more sense to me to dump Fox now & bring in Kubiak if they're going to usher in the Osweiller (sp) era now. Say goodbye to Peyton.

But they sound like they want Peyton back, which is why I don't understand the firing of Fox, especially after Kubiak said he was staying in Baltimore.
 
Lucky said:
Do they? Osweiler has never been under fire and is an UFA after next season. Very similar to the Mallett situation.
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I think he's their plan. The big difference is there is a light at the end of the tunnel for Osweiler. Brady may very well play out Garropolo's contract.
 
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Texecutioner said:
Darn, I've wanted to see Kubiak go somewhere else as a HC. It would be interesting here as there are many folks who still adore the guy. For some strange reason he resinates with some people in here as Bum Phillips seemed to from back in the day. They are still rooting for him and wanting him to prove some sort of point. Then there are those of us that are so glad that he is gone, and would love to see him HC again, so I can see his coaching style get exposed over and over again when people invest faith in him. Either way, it was likely going to be an interesting thing to unfold. I'm surprised that Gary isn't taking as many interviews as possible right now. He has enough interest to likely get a good deal again, and had better cash in while he still can.

I do think he seems to have settled in well with Baltimore. Maybe he doesn't feel fit to coach another team again as the head guy.
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I love kubes and wish he was never fired from here cus former Patriots Cordnaiters never have success ....so yeah I hope im wrong tho
 
JCTexan said:
Peyton doesn't even know if he's playing next year.
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Elway said Manning would be involved in the coach search so presumably he signed off on Kubiak.

Talk about walking into a dream job. Rarer than hell for a guy to get a 4 year in a row playoff team. $64k question is if they can keep both Thomases. I suspect Welker is gone.
 
Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter
Gary Kubiak has agreed to become the head coach of the Denver Broncos
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Congrats to Gary.


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"So shines a good deed in a weary world."
 
I lived in Denver before coming to Houston, and the Broncos are one of my secondary teams.

Shame on John Elway for hiring Gary Kubiak. He fired John Fox saying he wants a tough, no-nonsense team, and hires a coach that brings the exact opposite.

Wow.
 
Kyle shananhan has got tobe a good fit for Balt now (unless his daddy gets hired) just to continue the system in place that worked well last year
 
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