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Kubiak's Next Destination
- Thread starter 2slik4u
- Start date
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
Exactly. That describes Kubes perfectly.
I think if kubiak can strictly focus on offense and not the big picture kind of stuff he can excel. Kubiak was not a good head coach. But I do believe he knows offense. I think part of the problem with his offense here was that he was trying to call plays and be the head coach and he just wasn't capable of doing all that. So he was stressed in too many directions and it affected his play calling....at times. Plus personnel issues...yada, yada, yada....I could go on for days...
But bottom line is I think if he can just do offense he'll be one of the better OC's out there. He won't be a good head coach unless he learned something and changes a lot. IMO.
But bottom line is I think if he can just do offense he'll be one of the better OC's out there. He won't be a good head coach unless he learned something and changes a lot. IMO.
Lol with Caldwell being hired by Detriot...
handswarmer
Rookie
Damn, already been there....
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Yeah handswarmer, probably a good idea to take the opinions of fans of a 2-14 team with a grain of salt. When the result is bad everything associated with it is bad. The interest Kubiak has received for both HC and OC belies NFL front offices sharing the predictable/game has passed him and the WCO by sentiments you will see here. Bottom line, with Kubiak at the helm and a non-elite QB the Texans were consistently top 10 in scoring and yards until this season when the wheels fell off the QB bus.
deucetx
Rookie
I think he's easily an upgrade over Caldwell. He does have some negatives as he can be predictible at times. The playing it safe or 'not to win' isn't something I would think on as much. He seemed to change that a bit this season even before the losing streak so I think with the Ravens personnel it could be different. Plus the final call will be the headcoach and the game plan where as that was Kubes choice wholly here.
Truth is, I think he'd be a pretty good coordinator. The amount of directions you must go as a head coach can divert your attention to say the least. But with him solely having to focus on the offense and with the likes of Flacco and Rice I think he could make things happen. A man in his position with the Texans had to know the limitations of his team and some of those don't exist with the Ravens (i.e. quarterback ability) so I really can't see a reason to not be at least slightly positive of bringing him on board. Flacco should give him some more flexibility than he had here.
So yeah, I could see it as a positive for the Ravens.
Exascor
Veteran
To be fair, Kubiak took risks early on but he seemed to get "once bitten twice shy" after a half back pass failed.
Also something happened in the last 2 years that seemed to change his style to...bad. Personally, I think he was trying to break tendencies from previous years and ended up creating easier to read tendencies. He used to call plays early in games that slowed the defense down. Screens, reverses... Then a well timed play action pass. 2013 was terrible. Everything was predictable.
He looked worn out mentally and physically. He needs a fresh start. He also needs a good HC/GM to keep personnel decisions straight. I think he'd be a really good OC I just wish he'd take a year off to recharge.
Great post
I wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole. No way, no how.
He needs to go to an NFC team, put them consistently in the top 10 offenses in the league..... top 5 even, in yards & scoring.
You don't want none of that.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Top 5 OC in the league, IMO. Will benefit from reduced responsibilities focusing only on the offense and game plan. Problem is 1) system does not hold up well with sometimes just one underperforming piece, and 2) his very heavy reliance on ZBS will necessitate changes. Not sure I'd want to go from Caldwell to Kubiak with already good O personnel.
Also doubt Ravens would want to make their DWTS superstar Jacoby Jones unhappy -- no likey Coashh Kubes.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
He could possibly work for you guys. I don't pay much attention to the Ravens o-line, but if I had to guess, I would think you don't currently have the personnel to implement his zone blocking scheme. He's a big fan of that, and I don't know if he's flexible enough to change that. You need to have some athletic guards that can pull and get to the next level quickly. You may have to get some guys that can run this system, or maybe you prefer guys with experience. I'm sure the Texans would be happy to help you on your way by trading you Derek Newton for some clam chowda.
I'm not sure how Ray Rice would do in this system. He doesn't seem to be able to hit the hole with consistency any more. Maybe that was just this season, but the positive thing is that the Texans were able to find RBs that worked in our system without spending a lot on them. You could probably find a capable one for a 4th round pick or so. Just a one cut runner who has above average vision should be enough to keep the defense honest and open up the passing game.
I think the best thing you would get out of a Kubiak offense is the play-action deep ball threat. You guys won a Super Bowl thanks to Caldwell letting Flacco air it out. There's no question that is a huge piece to a successful Flacco, and with Kubiak's scheming you could possibly improve in this area. You already have a few WRs that can go long every other play, and you have a QB with a really strong arm and a great deep ball, something we never had in Houston with Kubes. Kubiak absolutely loves to call the play-action pass, where the QB boots out to the side, scans the field, and throws the long ball 50 yards to a WR that beat his man. Jacoby or Torrey Smith would be just fine at running those routes.
The Ravens have some decent TEs already in Pitta and Dickson. Both seem capable of blocking and catching, which is a crucial component of the Kubiak offense. He loves him some TEs. You may need to upgrade this position though, unless you think one of them could be a probowl TE in the future. They need to be able to run some intermediate routes across the middle and outs to the sideline to fit in the Kubiak system. Here Owen Daniels was our QB safety blanket for years, and he was a good pass catcher when healthy. If you have that already, then Kubiak might be a great fit.
The big question mark is how will the Ravens do running the ball in the red zone. Cause in Houston, we don't really throw the ball in the RZ. It's just not the way to do things, Kubiak loves to run it. Once we got Arian Foster, our RZ TD % went up quite a bit. Foster was great at finding space in the blocking and shooting through the holes. He was even better when we had Vonta Leach to follow as well. So if you have a great FB that can fit that role, and a RB who's not functionally retarded, you should be good to go.
That's just my 2 cents.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
There is word JJ may be cut loose in Baltimore. Not enough production as a WR to justify his cap hit. Sounds familiar.
Mr. White
Retired OLine Coach
I think he'll do a pretty good job with what you guys have over there. The transition to WCO took a long time to be implement over here, but I wouldn't think that would be necessary over there.
Seems like the offensive system is pretty damn good with a healthy Ray Rice.
handswarmer
Rookie
Thank you all for the feedback- I really do appreciate it.
Too many to quote so let me do this:
- Ravens hired Juan Castillo as Offensive Line coach - he was here last year after getting fired in Philly and established the Zone Blocking Scheme and installed some Stretch running plays. Ravens Oline is in flux- LT Eugene Monroe will be re-signed, LG Osemele might go to RT when he returns from injury so they will look for one in the draft, C will be in open competition as Gradkowski was a bust last year, RG Yanda will return and RT will be open as Oher will be let go (he's a bust- at both LT and RT)
- WR's: Ravens have plenty of burners: Smith is fine, Marlon Brown is coming on, Deonte Thompson couldn't see the field because of jacoby. Now JJ is interesting; awesome KR and PR. Was okay as a WR, his hands got a lot better but his route running is still poor- he rounds off a lot of routes but his cut and run style leaves the DB's in the dust. BUT, his price tag is going to be too much to afford for us. We have other possession types (Doss, etc) that can also return punts and kicks.
-TE's- Dickson (3rd rd) and Pitta (4th rd) are both FA's this year- Dickson was supposed to be the pass catcher but can't hold onto the ball; Pitta emerged last year as Flacco's go to guy as you saw in the playoffs. Matt Furstenburg spent the year on the practice squad and is ready ( in college here at Maryland, the called him "Matt FirstandTen") so Dickson is most likely gone. Fast guy but suspect hands, avg blocker.
-the Play action game is when Flacco is at his best but with no run game this year due to injury and poor Oline play kept it a minimum
- running the Air Coryell offense the last 6 years left little imagination in the play calling; 2 Wr's, 2 RB's and TE....or 1 WR, 2RB, 2 TE sets...no bunch formations on 1st down, only in desperation mode....so I wonder if the WCO would be better or would Kubiak be able to run the Coryell offense?
Too many to quote so let me do this:
- Ravens hired Juan Castillo as Offensive Line coach - he was here last year after getting fired in Philly and established the Zone Blocking Scheme and installed some Stretch running plays. Ravens Oline is in flux- LT Eugene Monroe will be re-signed, LG Osemele might go to RT when he returns from injury so they will look for one in the draft, C will be in open competition as Gradkowski was a bust last year, RG Yanda will return and RT will be open as Oher will be let go (he's a bust- at both LT and RT)
- WR's: Ravens have plenty of burners: Smith is fine, Marlon Brown is coming on, Deonte Thompson couldn't see the field because of jacoby. Now JJ is interesting; awesome KR and PR. Was okay as a WR, his hands got a lot better but his route running is still poor- he rounds off a lot of routes but his cut and run style leaves the DB's in the dust. BUT, his price tag is going to be too much to afford for us. We have other possession types (Doss, etc) that can also return punts and kicks.
-TE's- Dickson (3rd rd) and Pitta (4th rd) are both FA's this year- Dickson was supposed to be the pass catcher but can't hold onto the ball; Pitta emerged last year as Flacco's go to guy as you saw in the playoffs. Matt Furstenburg spent the year on the practice squad and is ready ( in college here at Maryland, the called him "Matt FirstandTen") so Dickson is most likely gone. Fast guy but suspect hands, avg blocker.
-the Play action game is when Flacco is at his best but with no run game this year due to injury and poor Oline play kept it a minimum
- running the Air Coryell offense the last 6 years left little imagination in the play calling; 2 Wr's, 2 RB's and TE....or 1 WR, 2RB, 2 TE sets...no bunch formations on 1st down, only in desperation mode....so I wonder if the WCO would be better or would Kubiak be able to run the Coryell offense?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I thought I had heard that. With zone already in the works that is a big plus.
Kubiak doesn't need freakish athletes as TE's. They need to feel zones well and have good hands. He schemes to get them stupid open.
If Flacco has a good fake, then you'd do well with Kubiak. He managed to have the Texans lead the league off play action even with the 30th rushing attack. Aren't you expecting a bounce back from Rice?
handswarmer
Rookie
Just can't pay a guy that kind of money to return kicks and punts and not get more production at WR position
Now he did miss a bunch of games this year also.
Extrapolating his game stats over 16 games he would have been 49 catches for 606 yds 3TD's...
He is a free agent as of march 1st
handswarmer
Rookie
Yes- and before Castillo got here they would run the stretch plays, but that was a different type of Olineman back then...they are getting more athletic and less "mauler" types...
Pitta and Flacco are BFF's on and off the field- Pitta was drafted as a blocker/Dickson was supposed to be the playmaker- they have switched roles... Only way Dickson comes back is if its at league min...Pitta is at his best finding the soft spot in a zone or running the seam routes and working the middle of the field.
Flacco has a great fake; Rice had a quad and the hip this year besides a ****ty oline so yes I expect a huge season from him. I think he had SB hangover...
houstonspartan
All Pro
Top 5 OC in the league, IMO. Will benefit from reduced responsibilities focusing only on the offense and game plan. Problem is 1) system does not hold up well with sometimes just one underperforming piece, and 2) his very heavy reliance on ZBS will necessitate changes. Not sure I'd want to go from Caldwell to Kubiak with already good O personnel.
Also doubt Ravens would want to make their DWTS superstar Jacoby Jones unhappy -- no likey Coashh Kubes.
Jacoby doesn't like Kubiak? Since when? Kubiak coddled and babied him the entire time he was here.
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The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Kubiak's approach is to throw early/run late. He wants to get out to an early lead and then choke the hell out of the opponent with a time-consuming run game with a dink and dunk clock-burning passing game.
He wants to run even if the defense is loading the box. He wants to show the defense the same thing over and over again but do different things off of it. He likes lots of 2 TE stuff and if possible, he'll run 3 TEs.
Any formation will be either run or pass. Although he is mostly a ZBS guy, he's incorporated a lot of other things into it. So you'll see a lot more pulling linemen and TEs going into motion and leading the RB into the hole. He does well with a blocking and receiving FB.
He believes in YAC so he will dial up plays that are short of the 1st down marker on 3rd down and ask the receiver to run for the first.
I think he's one of the better OCs in the league and I'd prefer he go to the NFC. There are a lot of people here who think his offense is old and outdated but it still works great as long as the QB is making good decisions. (Which Schaub stopped doing.) His offense isn't an "audible" based offense. The QB can't come to the line, survey the defense alignment, and then totally change the play; however, based on what he reads, the QB usually has a wide variety of options and he can shift the play from one variation to another and the play is supposed to be designed to handle all variations. So it's up to the QB to make the right determination.
I heard someone say that the QB can't shift the protections in this offense to take care of blitzes, but I think that's incorrect. I think the problem there was that our QBs weren't making the right reads and calls this year.
But unlike the best coaches who can take a collection of players and design an offense to make the best use of them, Kubiak is a system guy who gets the right players for his system and sticks them in. BUT. He can frequently get those guys in the later rounds or as UDFAs.
He wants to run even if the defense is loading the box. He wants to show the defense the same thing over and over again but do different things off of it. He likes lots of 2 TE stuff and if possible, he'll run 3 TEs.
Any formation will be either run or pass. Although he is mostly a ZBS guy, he's incorporated a lot of other things into it. So you'll see a lot more pulling linemen and TEs going into motion and leading the RB into the hole. He does well with a blocking and receiving FB.
He believes in YAC so he will dial up plays that are short of the 1st down marker on 3rd down and ask the receiver to run for the first.
I think he's one of the better OCs in the league and I'd prefer he go to the NFC. There are a lot of people here who think his offense is old and outdated but it still works great as long as the QB is making good decisions. (Which Schaub stopped doing.) His offense isn't an "audible" based offense. The QB can't come to the line, survey the defense alignment, and then totally change the play; however, based on what he reads, the QB usually has a wide variety of options and he can shift the play from one variation to another and the play is supposed to be designed to handle all variations. So it's up to the QB to make the right determination.
I heard someone say that the QB can't shift the protections in this offense to take care of blitzes, but I think that's incorrect. I think the problem there was that our QBs weren't making the right reads and calls this year.
But unlike the best coaches who can take a collection of players and design an offense to make the best use of them, Kubiak is a system guy who gets the right players for his system and sticks them in. BUT. He can frequently get those guys in the later rounds or as UDFAs.
handswarmer
Rookie
We have two TE's (Pitta and Furstenburg) and Vontae Leach as FB and Kyle Justyck as FB/H-back so it would work with grinding out the clock
Flacco had two plays everytime he came to the line -run and pass. that was it.
Matt Schaub had three 4,000+ passing yard seasons with Kubiak's offense (one was a game away from breaking 5,000 yards).
I think Kubiak could set up Flacco for some great things, especially with a solid run game that really greases the wheels of his heavy play-action schemes.
And with a solid-to-great Ravens defense that can protect leads, I think the Ravens could really find some success with Kubiak as OC.
I know a lot of folks believe it was getting predictable in Houston, and I understand the perspective. But, as a coordinator, he will not have the final say. He might be calling plays, but he will be doing it within the framework of having a head coach that has ultimate say in game plans. Harbaugh has already shown that he's a great HC, so Kubiak would be a great assistant for him. I'd wish him luck, but not as a Raven.
I think Kubiak could set up Flacco for some great things, especially with a solid run game that really greases the wheels of his heavy play-action schemes.
And with a solid-to-great Ravens defense that can protect leads, I think the Ravens could really find some success with Kubiak as OC.
I know a lot of folks believe it was getting predictable in Houston, and I understand the perspective. But, as a coordinator, he will not have the final say. He might be calling plays, but he will be doing it within the framework of having a head coach that has ultimate say in game plans. Harbaugh has already shown that he's a great HC, so Kubiak would be a great assistant for him. I'd wish him luck, but not as a Raven.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Like I said, I do not want him in the AFC. I think he'd do a really good job with your team.
BUT...
It all comes down to Flacco's decision making. Pitta and Smith could be All-Pro in Kubiak's offense.
He'll make Flacco look elite in the regular season.
handswarmer
Rookie
Harbaugh doesn't have any input into play calling; he lets the OC call the game. He might radio in "Lets run the ball here" or "Take a shot downfield" but not actually calling plays.
handswarmer
Rookie
And in the postseason.....?
Flacco's got that under control.
That's Harbaugh's job.
I wouldn't worry too much about what Kubes will do. You still have Harbaugh running the show, so Kubiak will be able to concentrate more on making the offense more efficient.
He was able to score points on almost any defense, even against the Patriots.
That's pretty much what I was saying. It sometimes felt like Kubiak would out-think himself, especially in the red zone. But as an OC, he had a good track record. He might be a coordinator that can make great calls 95% of the time, but needs someone over him that sees a bigger picture for the crucial decisions.
Hopefully, Kubiak gets rid of that play that throws an 8 yard pass when you need 9 yards.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
Somewhat off topic, but do you have any concerns that Vontae's skills may be diminishing?
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
handswarmer
Rookie
That's pretty much what I was saying. It sometimes felt like Kubiak would out-think himself, especially in the red zone. But as an OC, he had a good track record. He might be a coordinator that can make great calls 95% of the time, but needs someone over him that sees a bigger picture for the crucial decisions.
Hopefully, Kubiak gets rid of that play that throws an 8 yard pass when you need 9 yards.
Id take that over the 4 yd pass when you need 11yds....
handswarmer
Rookie
alot of offenses don't have a true FB any more...Rice has always had one since he got here...
Vontae still hits the hole hard...the problem this year was that the Oline was so poor, Rb's were getting hit in the backfield alot....
He might be a cap casualty this year- they let him go and there was little interest in him last year....then he re-signed....
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Hopefully, Kubiak gets rid of that play that throws an 8 yard pass when you need 9 yards.
Id take that over the 4 yd pass when you need 11yds....
I don't understand why completely but that's league wide nowadays.
It used to drive Landry f'n insane if receivers didn't run their routes past the sticks.
handswarmer
Rookie
i guess the thought is that the athleticism will allow them to get the additional yardgage but thats rare....unless they are playing us and we desperately need a stop to win the game and go to the playofffs for the 6th straight year....doh!
drives me nuts also...especially when I watch teams like the Packers, Texans, Chargers, etc run routes in the 10-20yd range that move the ball downfield and get 1st downs....
kinda sick of the Bronco's and Patriots with their little 5 yd Dink and Dunk crap...
can't wait to hear "Omaha" about 40 bazillion times this weekend- last year it was "hurry hurry"
handswarmer
Rookie
I am very disappointed that Harbaugh didn't seriously consider Kubes....Harbaugh's loyalty gene is going to get him fired.....
Goatcheese
Texan
Coach hirings are more complicated than most fans realize. They have to consider how the coach fits the current players, how long it will take him to implement his offense and acquire talent to run it, etc. I imagine the Ravens are looking for somebody who will run something similar to their current system instead of bringing in a coach with his own complicated offense. They feel like they're ready to win now and taking a year or two to get the offense into the top 5 you would expect from Kubiak isn't in their plans.
htownfan32
Hall of Fame
Guess that shows what NFL personnel thought of our coaching situation.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
I think he simply means that Tate is a good fit (one cut and go) in the system Kubiak would run.
I don't really view the idea of Tate and Kubiak together as that big a stretch. Kubiak and Mike Lombardi seems a bigger one to me. Although Lombardi doesn't really seem to do anything up there, so I guess he probably has zero input on OC decisions.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
You guys were saved. Lol!
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
Supposedly, the Browns have been chubbed up over Tate for a few years now.
And you're right, I don't think there'd be any way Kubiak would bring him with.