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Kubiak prefers Carr.
- Thread starter Nighthawk
- Start date
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
Here is a random question on this. I was harping on Carr last week because I had heard all the rumors that he didn't like staying after practice to work with coaches and teammates and he decided to do his film work at home. I wrote 610 and they confirmed it and Zerlein even alluded to it in his article about our three draft options. People have always blamed our coaches for not coaching him right, thus making the same mistakes 4 years in. Well what if he was just unwilling to put in the work and they DID try to help him?That would be something that Kubiak would have to look at. Is Carr willing to let go of his old habits and stay later, watch film with Kubes, etc?Carr said in the past that family was #1 on his time so that is why he went home. McClain even alluded to this in an article last week. Just something to think about.
Jack Bauer
Rookie
Hookem Horns said:Carr is also cool with losing just as long as he "plays well".
http://www.nflplayers.com/players/player.aspx?id=32977§ion=journal
Talk about taking things out of context. Read the journal again (and put some thought behind the reading) and tell me you think what he said is NOT okay with you. He is not accepting playing well over winning. He is saying that if you don't win, as long as you gave everything you have, you have nothing to be ashamed of. Sounds well-grounded to me.
Another point. Nowhere in the journal did it say anything about "me". He talks about the team playing well. Also, would you rather he spend the time writing how his OL sucks and how pathetic the defense is? If he did that, we would all be screaming how bad a leader he is that he should know to keep that stuff "in-house".
I continue to chuckle at the sensitive emotions from people on the Bush-Young debate. I am reminded of Republicans and Democrats bickering during Presidential campaigns.
If a Republican is elected to office, a great majority of Democrats hope the Repubilcan President will be terrible and run the country into the ground so they can enjoy the satisfaction of telling everyone, "I told you so."
Conversely and every bit as equally, if a Democrat becomes President, a great majority of Republicans hope and pray the Democratic President screws up and runs the country in the ground so they can boast and say, "I told you so."
If a Republican is elected to office, a great majority of Democrats hope the Repubilcan President will be terrible and run the country into the ground so they can enjoy the satisfaction of telling everyone, "I told you so."
Conversely and every bit as equally, if a Democrat becomes President, a great majority of Republicans hope and pray the Democratic President screws up and runs the country in the ground so they can boast and say, "I told you so."
Glacier
Waterboy
LCOOL said:
he could shock everyone and move down to take the top TE in the draft. Denver has always had solid production at the TE position.
He could also try to find a good complimentary WR, though, this would likely happen in the 2nd or 3rd round.
He is an Offensive coach. I don't see the Texans investing too much in defense to start, though, I could be wrong.
Besides, this year will likely be a year of talent evaluation, much like Parcells when he came into Dallas. There weren't a lot of roster changes because he wanted to see what he had.
Mr. White
Retired OLine Coach
Nighthawk said:
The stoy's the same, but the sources keep changing. Everytime Bob McNair refutes their reports, another "source" with another team pops up and gives Mort the "big scoop."
Kubiak is coming off a pretty big upset. I think the playoffs are where his head has been. The source using Kubiak's "philosophy" sounds like more speculation disguised as news.
jerek
Pro Hobbyist
hof13026 said:
Let's see:
Sack, we keep the ball.
Interception, we give it to the other team.
Find me a head coach in this league that would rather have an INT than a sack.
Welcome to the board. Try to provide something that indicates you have a clue of what you are talking about next time.
JDizzle
I'm a dude
Glacier said:
Well, of course, that's a no brainer but Carr's comment was a response to the 2 options of taking a sack or throwing a pick.
Jack Bauer said:
I was about to post the same thing, Bauer (24 rules, btw). Here's the journal entire journal entry :
That was taken way out of context. I don't see anything in there where he says he's "okay with losing."
JDizzle
I'm a dude
Grid said:
That's what I gathered from it.
I have my own reservations about Carr, but some of you are reaching up and beyond reasonnig and bringing down some things that are complete garbage in reference to David Carr's attitude and personality, 2 things most of you don't know anything about.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
Simply put I just can't wait until something is definitive on this or any of the other possibilities. Just as an example lets say that this is true and that this was the last word on this subject. It's all hypothetical of course but for arguments sake lets go with it.
For a start you would have every single one of the Vince Young crybabies in here doing what you already see a handful of posters on this thread doing. They'll be crying and making threats. It's very important that I make you all understand that I'm not calling you a crybaby just because you think VY is the way to go. There are some good posters who want us to draft VY and I respect those guys. They're also not the ones you're going to catch in here crying about the Texans not seeing the light or talking about giving their seats (if they even have seats) away now that Vince isn't going to be here. Those posters will all descend on the board like they did right after the Rose Bowl only this time they'll be venting. I for one will be enjoying every single minute of it.
Then following a few days of general disorder on the board they'll start to go away. A week after the Texans go with Bush and pass on VY I'll be able to talk to all of the posters who actually have a clue in a relatively calm environment. Sure the odd malcontent will still pop up every once in a while but that's normal. The mob will be gone. That's all I care about now.
For a start you would have every single one of the Vince Young crybabies in here doing what you already see a handful of posters on this thread doing. They'll be crying and making threats. It's very important that I make you all understand that I'm not calling you a crybaby just because you think VY is the way to go. There are some good posters who want us to draft VY and I respect those guys. They're also not the ones you're going to catch in here crying about the Texans not seeing the light or talking about giving their seats (if they even have seats) away now that Vince isn't going to be here. Those posters will all descend on the board like they did right after the Rose Bowl only this time they'll be venting. I for one will be enjoying every single minute of it.
Then following a few days of general disorder on the board they'll start to go away. A week after the Texans go with Bush and pass on VY I'll be able to talk to all of the posters who actually have a clue in a relatively calm environment. Sure the odd malcontent will still pop up every once in a while but that's normal. The mob will be gone. That's all I care about now.
jerek
Pro Hobbyist
Hervoyel said:
... Next year we win or experience a solid turnaround, while [insert name of untouchable god-incarnate superhero we pass on] languishes on a bad team or, ironically, suffers an injury and sits out; while [player he was supposed to replace here] flourishes under new coach and revamped offense.
Emergence of "I knew it all alongs" on the board who suddenly can't get off [player he was supposed to replace here]'s nuts.
Life goes on.
We are sitting at 0-3 and the guy says "I don’t think this week is necessarily a must win, but it is a must play well". I am sorry, you're freaking 0-3, the next week IS a must win unless you are OK with going 0-4. How many 0-4 teams make the playoffs? BTW, that was not taken out of context. I'm sorry but that is a defeatest attitude. What kind of message does that comment send the rest of the team or the fans? I knew the season was doomed when I read that especially because this guy is supposed to be the leader of the team.
What about his comment after the Bengals game? "I felt like we were playing to our potential today,"... The dude had just taken 7 sacks (I say taken because many were his own fault) and they lost the game. Even if you know your team sucks and barely losing is the best it is going to get, you keep that stuff to yourself and you darn sure don't tell the media that.
chuckm said:
Between the ones where he just falls down at the first sight of pressure, or the ones where he gets happy feet at the first sight of pressure and either runs into a defender or runs out of bounds behind the line, probably most of them or at least half.
Speaking of this I was watching some of the QB's in the playoffs like Roethlisberger and kept thinking to myself, "Carr would have went down there", where Ben would just take a step to the right or left and make a guy miss, or would have a guy draped all over him as he delivered a strike. At the first sight of a defender Carr would either take off running (either out of bounds or into another defender), or simply go into the fetal position and take the sack. I was saying all year that our O-line was getting a bad rap for many of those sacks. I can't remember which one but one lineman even pointed out this same thing during the season in defense of themselves.
chuckm
Veteran
Hookem Horns said:
Ok so let's take a conservative number to represent "most" ... let's take 5 .... that's 5 of 7 on Carr and 2 of 7 on the pass protection ... that's 71% rounded down .... so in 4 years Carr has been sacked 208 times, can I assume that according to you if another quarterback, let's say Roethlisberger, had of been in Carr's shoes that he would've only been sacked 59 times?
chuckm said:
Who's to say? Different players react differently to situations. That being said, I would say that I believe Carr has become "shellshocked" and gotten happy feet over the years as a result of poor protection in the past, especially during the first season. I do think it is in large part the Texans fault that he has gotten like this. I am obviously concerned that his psyche is permanently damaged. This is why I think it might be best for both parties to have a change of scenery.
chuckm
Veteran
Hookem Horns said:
ok so now we're finding common ground .... I completely agree that Carr's "shellshocked" ... however where I believe we diverge, is whether or not Carr can be "rehabilitated" .... In my opinion, time with someone that actually played the postion, and isn't an old man, will do wonders for Carr ... IF AND ONLY IF the pass protection issues are corrected ... if they're not corrected then it doesn't matter whether we have Carr, Young or the resurrection of Johnny Unitas ... we might as well start running the single wing ...
chuckm said:
Good thought, I hope you're right if they decide to go with Bush.
edo783
Hall of Fame
Hookem Horns said:Carr is also cool with losing just as long as he "plays well".
http://www.nflplayers.com/players/player.aspx?id=32977§ion=journal
Now Hooken, you have been spreading that crap for a couple of weeks. It is a quote out of context. At a point when it seemed our season was heading south (~ game 4 I think) he was asked if the game was a must win to save the season and the reply was no, it's not a must win, but we have to play well. What that means is, no our season isn't over if we don't win, but it's important that we play well in order to get our season back on track. Naturally you don't say it's a must win game that early in the season. What do you do if ya loss? It was a MUST win, so what quit? No, but it is important to play well and gain confidence so that the REST of the season the team can improve. I understand your promoting your GOD Vince, but it is no reason to take something out of context in order to smear someone you don't like. You are intentionaly promoting a falshood.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
edo783 said:
Some of it has some validity, but not on the playing field. Carr has not been the spokesman that I would have liked to see, but some guys just do not have it in them. This appears to be a weakness of Carr that really has no negative value unless he opens his mouth. This behavior is not a falsehood in my opinion, but it is an easily corrected behavior.
Texans_Chick
Utopian Dreamer
gwallaia said:
I am not sure how many folks are really "I told you so" people, but I will say that it is my belief that with a team with so few years in existence, combined with a poor record, the probability is that this sort of team is not going to set the world on fire the next year. It is quite possible that no matter who we draft, as a rookie, they will struggle surrounded by a new system and not much quality depth.
Personally, I'd rather be wrong like nobodies business and win, then have my worst case scenarios in my brain happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hof13026
Well, then I guess Kubiak is going to be as inept as Capers. I heard Carr's philosophy on the radio last month. He stated he'd rather "take a sack than throw an interception". Yeah, that saves his stats and he can blame the Line for the sack.Texans will go nowhere with a self-serving qb. Vince is the pick. If they don't take it - I might give them back my seats for next year.
Quote:
Originally posted by Profan
Well, you should prepare to give up your seats. Based on your illogical reasoning you should give back your seats. Most qb's would prefer a sack over an int. I would prefer a sack over a int. This is the first time i ever have heard of someone prefering an int over a sack for the offense. Are you the one making all the noise when the offense has the ball? Are you the one starting the wave when the offense has the ball? Got to be.
I actually had to read it two times to be sure that he said it. Int over a Sack!
Are you crazy?
You can Quote me on that.
Originally Posted by hof13026
Well, then I guess Kubiak is going to be as inept as Capers. I heard Carr's philosophy on the radio last month. He stated he'd rather "take a sack than throw an interception". Yeah, that saves his stats and he can blame the Line for the sack.Texans will go nowhere with a self-serving qb. Vince is the pick. If they don't take it - I might give them back my seats for next year.
Quote:
Originally posted by Profan
Well, you should prepare to give up your seats. Based on your illogical reasoning you should give back your seats. Most qb's would prefer a sack over an int. I would prefer a sack over a int. This is the first time i ever have heard of someone prefering an int over a sack for the offense. Are you the one making all the noise when the offense has the ball? Are you the one starting the wave when the offense has the ball? Got to be.
I actually had to read it two times to be sure that he said it. Int over a Sack!
Are you crazy?
You can Quote me on that.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
Hookem Horns said:
You know what man, I watched those first three games too and I honestly cannot fault the man for saying that. Up until that point the offense hadn't even so much as played well so hey, maybe you found that to be the defining moment of the 2005 season or something but I thought our teams QB was simply saying "We better show a pulse pretty soon or this season is going to get out of hand real fast".
We didn't and it did. Who were we going to be beating? We were no threat to beat anybody at that point. Hookem you sound like a broken record or something with this "must play well" kick you've been on.
jerek
Pro Hobbyist
Hervoyel said:
I am going to piggyback here because I don't want to take the time to type it all out.
Was Carr a defeatist, or a realist?
I know. Vince Young never loses, at anything. When he takes a dump, it smells like roses and the place is better than when he found it. People bag it up and sell it on eBay because certain members of the Vince Young fandom just can't get enough.
I am not going to say that what Carr said was the best thing he could have said, or the best way he could have put it. But that is not the same thing as saying the guy likes to lose, or doesn't want to win.
Are we done yet?
edo783 said:
Actually, we have been discussing that quote for months, ever since he said it. Someone else posted it on the other board and most had the same reaction I did. A true leader doesn't make comments like that, I don't care how you try to slant it. So where is the falsehood? I am only quoting him word for word. For the record what you see in that NFL Players Journal is a summary of the Q&A. They omitted the questions. I was trying to find the link because the entire interview was posted on another site. The reporter asked him something like "At 0-3, how important is it to avoid an 0-4 start?" That's when he made that comment.
As far as Carr's defeatest attitude goes, it has nothing to do with VY. People were seriously questioning him long before VY was on the radar screen. Just scroll back and see how many Carr threads there were during the season.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
jerek said:
Jerek I am with you if this is framed in a Carr vs Young debate. But if it is a Carr discussion there have been many instances where this has shown itself in his career with the Texans. No biggie, but comments by opposing players are posted in the locker room and comments by a team mate such as these are indeed discussed in the whirl pool or at the training table.
To me, very similar QB's. Neither are going to win games for you and, most of the time, neither of them are going singlehandedly to lose games for you.
That being said, both have the ability to implode at any given time, particularly in big games.
Both have pretty good physical skills. Both mediocre at best at reading defenses and looking off of coverages.
If you think Kubiak is going to transform Carr into the next Joe Montana, think again.
If you think you can live with a QB that can basically run the system and hope that his 3-4 bonehead plays per game don't hurt you, then Carr is your guy.
That being said, both have the ability to implode at any given time, particularly in big games.
Both have pretty good physical skills. Both mediocre at best at reading defenses and looking off of coverages.
If you think Kubiak is going to transform Carr into the next Joe Montana, think again.
If you think you can live with a QB that can basically run the system and hope that his 3-4 bonehead plays per game don't hurt you, then Carr is your guy.
edo783
Hall of Fame
Hookem Horns said:
The falshood comes from intentionaly not putting the context. The question was "At 0-3 is this a MUST win game". The reply was "No, it's not a must win game". A logical and correct statement, because the otherside of that is that if it is a must win and you don't then the seasons over because you lost the must win. He then followed on with "But we must play well". Again that is a resonable statement, because if your ever going to get it going, it starts with playing well one game at a time and building on the good things and gaining confidence. One of the major items that happend last year IMO, was that the TEAM lost confidence in their ability to win. By playing well in a game that builds that confidence and that then breeds wins. I attribute that lack of confidence to the players recognising that Larry, Moe and Curly had no idea what to do from a coaching standpoint to have a good game plan/scheme and for the most part just mailed in the season after about the 4-5th game, because they saw it was a lost cause with them directing what was going on.
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
edo783 said:
Just to play Devil's Advocate here, I don't think this is necessarily true. It WAS a must game if they were going to have a chance. It doesn't mean the season is tanked, it just means that in order to reach goals it is a pressure game they needed to win. "Must win" gets thrown around alot but it really just means, " a game to get to where we need to be as to our goals." During the Astros/Cards series people said Game 5 was a "must win" because we hadn't played well in St. Louis. Well we lost in heartbreaking fashion and still won the series. I think when a team hits 0-3 and your goal was to make the playoffs, then the next game is a Must Win. Just another opinion. But I don't think it defines the guy.
S
SESupergenius
Guest
Boy, you talk about overanalyzing. It's as clear as day that Carr said that thinking that he needed to lead this team by not panicking and overreacting, a trait that implodes a team faster than you can say Terrell Owens. A defeatist attitude would have been, "man we just suck today and we have no chance in playing next week", THAT is telling everyone that you've already been defeated and are giving up. I thought Carr did a very good job in trying to keep things positive, he could have easily turned on his teammates for lack of execution and fired off at the coaching staff, especially after laying one right in the hands of Bradford. If I had thrown that ball into Bradford's hands and he missed it like that and I go to the sideline and the coach is yelling at ME instead of Bradford, I'd of been one p'o'd customer.Hookem Horns said:
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
SESupergenius said:
Totally agree--this debate is silly. All it gives me is a vision of Crash Davis saying, "I'm just here for my team and to give 110%" and having someone else walk up and say what a loser mentality, don't you know it is, "I'm just here for my team and to give 120%."
GP
Go Texans!
Even though I don't agree with his point of view, Hook Em Horns is not taking it out of context.
Carr is the worst at public speaking since Mike Tyson. I've got a few Carr'isms of my own that leave me scratching my head. I really think the guy means one thing and it comes out another. When I finally understood that speaking is not his greatest gift, I was able to repress a lot of the anger that Hook Em Horns is still not able to repress (so it seems). I just happened to have gotten over it by now.
The fact of the matter is that this entire team took on an alter ego after the last game of the 2004 season. I really am a big proponent of the idea that the team individually, but yet collectively, figured out they had not an ice cube's chance in Tahiti under the Capers way of playing football. We're talking about a team that took the Patriots to the limit, beat Carolina at home, and was generally in almost each ballgame they played in 2004. To just suddenly reverse that is not the mistake of one man (David Carr).
Carr is here. It's done. Dream all you want, if that's your gig, but Kubiak is known for at least slowing the rate of blood loss with his QBs.
And with Casserly getting neutered, for all practical purposes, we'll have a great shot at rebounding with better draft talent than we've ever been able to get our hands on in one draft.
Cheer up. Happy times are here again. At least until opening day
Carr is the worst at public speaking since Mike Tyson. I've got a few Carr'isms of my own that leave me scratching my head. I really think the guy means one thing and it comes out another. When I finally understood that speaking is not his greatest gift, I was able to repress a lot of the anger that Hook Em Horns is still not able to repress (so it seems). I just happened to have gotten over it by now.
The fact of the matter is that this entire team took on an alter ego after the last game of the 2004 season. I really am a big proponent of the idea that the team individually, but yet collectively, figured out they had not an ice cube's chance in Tahiti under the Capers way of playing football. We're talking about a team that took the Patriots to the limit, beat Carolina at home, and was generally in almost each ballgame they played in 2004. To just suddenly reverse that is not the mistake of one man (David Carr).
Carr is here. It's done. Dream all you want, if that's your gig, but Kubiak is known for at least slowing the rate of blood loss with his QBs.
And with Casserly getting neutered, for all practical purposes, we'll have a great shot at rebounding with better draft talent than we've ever been able to get our hands on in one draft.
Cheer up. Happy times are here again. At least until opening day
Erratic Assassin
Rookie
hof13026 said:
Anyone in his right mind would prefer our QB to take a sack instead of throwing an interception. An interception can easily translate into points for the other team.
How in the world can David Carr's willingness to take a beating for the good of the team be considered "selfishness" on his part? Force = Mass time Acceleration. Being hit repeatedly by big guys running 4.3's = a world of pain.
David Carr has taken over 200 sacks in his short career. Would you prefer 200 sacks or 200 interceptions?
Ofcourse KubiAg is going to keep Carr rather than drafting VY. Heck, who wants leadership and freakish athletic ability when you can have a Calvin Klein model?
Anyone care to wager on an over/under for the number of UT players the Texans draft with KubiAg as the coach? I'll go with zero.
Anyone care to wager on an over/under for the number of UT players the Texans draft with KubiAg as the coach? I'll go with zero.
Napa Auto Parts said:
At 6'0" and 200 lbs, he's not a paper doll. Everything I've read about him compares him to Ladainian Tomlinson.
I don't know which is the right choice for the Texans between Young and Bush.
I think given the right opportunity Carr could turn into a pro-bowl QB. We also have a pretty good RB in Davis. So either way, we'll be getting redundency at whichever position unless we trade our current player.
As for trading down? I don't trust Casserly with extra draft picks at the expense of the #1 pick.
Texans86
Rookie
Caesar said:
You have got to be kidding right? So he doesn't go for Vince. Ok. Huff is taken. Fine. Scott is available in the second round, but so is Eric Winston, or maybe a stud TE like Pope. Too many factors go into the drafting decision than where a kid went to college. There are only a few players coming out of UT compared to how many slots there are in the entire draft. There is very little reason to suppose that Kubiak will decide on one player or another because of where someone went to college. That's childish and he didn't get the respect he has by doing things like that.
The man hasn't even signed on the dotted line and we already have FANS? dissing him because he is an Aggie!! Give me a break!!
Jack Bauer
Rookie
SESupergenius said:
Great job, SES.
Jack Bauer
Rookie
Caesar said:
Face the facts, Texas A&M still produces more NFL-ready players than UT. UT has 26 players in the NFL and TAMU has 42. UT tries to up this number on their website by still listing Jerry Gray and Kyle Shanahan as "active" in the NFL. I don't care who you are, that's funny right there!
My point is that IF Kubiak's Texans do not draft a Longhorn, it won't be because of some bias.
I am not anti-Longhorn, just looking at the facts.
BTW, If David Thomas lasts until the first pick of the fourth round, he may be Kubiak's first UT draft choice.
Jack Bauer said:Face the facts, Texas A&M still produces more NFL-ready players than UT. UT has 26 players in the NFL and TAMU has 42. UT tries to up this number on their website by still listing Jerry Gray and Kyle Shanahan as "active" in the NFL. I don't care who you are, that's funny right there!
Where did you get this info? I was interested to see the numbers other schools like Ohio State have in the NFL just for general information.
Jack Bauer
Rookie
Runner said:
On the school website. Texas has a link on their football site that says: "NFL Longhorns" and A&M has a link called "Aggies in the NFL".
Here is a link to other links about Ohio State:
Buckeyes in the NFL