Kubes on the hotseat????

[Dapper]

It's funny to my how many armchair coaches there are out there who probably have never even coached a youth soccer team.
if you think that making "game time decisions" is easy, you are either an idot or just plain ignorant.

There is no other way to get that "training" than under fire and on the job. I can gaurantee that there is not a coach alive or dead that has not made mistakes in the heat of battle. I'm talking about game deciding calls. Now I'm not saying that Kubes is the greatest coach out there but he is young and is gaining experience every week. Just like a young qb who needs experience for the game to ""slow down" for his skills to be displayed, the coaching staff has those same needs. If it was that easy, anyone could do it. Does any of you old timers remember Jeff Fischer's first year? He was not without flaws and has coached the longest with same team, i think. If my memory is correct, he made a boneheaded move last year against our Texans too.

If you doubt what i'm saying, just give coaching a try and count your mistakes for the first week. You might just bite your tounge a little the next time a pro coach makes a bad decision.
That being said, I doubt very seriously that Kubes or Smith or on the hot seat. They are going to be around a while like it or not.

 

[GP]

I think it would be stupid for us to fire Kubes unless if we have a record worse then 8-8 with a healthy team. Remnds me of the Chargers firing Marty who I'm sure they wouldv'e loved to keep instead of Turner.

Yet Marty's name is consistently mentioned as a possible choice for the Texans. He's done nothing but get teams to the playoffs only to lose once there.

This is just a product of our own expectations.

I was once a dark little cloud, myself, back before we began our win streak and pulled off 8-8. I know what it's like to demand Kubiak to "do this, or else." Well, he pulled off 8-8 when we probably could have just as easily have been 4-12.

I thought our opening games were a joke from the moment the schedule was released last off-season, and who really thought we stood a chance in the first half of the season? The Colts slowly regressed over the course of last season, and the Titans have lost their main man on defense who commanded double teams on every play. The Jags, IMO, finally bit the dust last season. Boy, that Jags team looks eerily like the 2-14 Texans: Some leftovers on defense, and a QB who can't do anything but tuck it and run OR dump off to the short routes. And a HC who stands there watching it all fall apart in front of his eyes.

We're going to win the AFC South, or at the very least have a W-L tie with either the Titans or the Colts with tie-breakers determining the outcome. And even if we don't win the South, in case the Titans or Colts regain their footing and win the division, we still are a viable Wild Card team.

Kubiak would have to do some amazingly stupid things, over the course of the whole season, in order to ruin this. Which, knowing human nature, is a possibility I guess.

 

[Polo]

I'm of the opinion that if we don't at least show improvement every year, then the coach should be on the hotseat.

You're right...

Belichick should have totally been on the hotseat after failing to live up to 16-0 again...

I mean...Dude won a whole 5 games less AND missed the play-offs...Screw a hot seat...fire his ass...

 

[Second Honeymoon]

You're right...

Belichick should have totally been on the hotseat after failing to live up to 16-0 again...

I mean...Dude won a whole 5 games less AND missed the play-offs...Screw a hot seat...fire his ass...

he didn't say playoffs, he said improvement. you are right in saying that improving doesn't necessarily mean playoffs, but that wasn't his point.

The team has to have a 9-7 record next year for Kubiak to be worthy of re-signing to a new contract. If the Texans finish 8-8 or worse, why should Kubiak be rewarded with a new contract? At the end of the season if Kubiak doesn't get to 9-7 he will have a losing record over 4 seasons without one season of being a winning football team. Why not see if someone out there could be an upgrade over Kubiak. Cowher, Schottenheimer, Holmgren, Pete Carroll, and even Herm Edwards would all be potential replacements. I am ommitting Shanahan because there is no way he takes Gary's job. No way.

All I am saying is if they fail to become a winner, we need to see if we can improve the team and one of the easiest ways to improve a team's performance is to improve the coaching. It will take a high salary but we can get one of the top coaches to come here. We have to stop being such a carebear organization and get committed to winning over everything else.

 

[Ole Miss Texan]

You're right...

Belichick should have totally been on the hotseat after failing to live up to 16-0 again...

I mean...Dude won a whole 5 games less AND missed the play-offs...Screw a hot seat...fire his ass...

Pretty interesting comparison there, Polo.

Bill Belichick's first three years as a Head Coach produced records of 6-10, 7-9, 7-9. His 4th year he made the playoffs (lost in 1st round) with an 11-5 record and then his 5th and final year in CLE had a 5-11 record.

 

[Polo]

he didn't say playoffs, he said improvement. you are right in saying that improving doesn't necessarily mean playoffs, but that wasn't his point.

No, I think you missed my point...

Record is a nice gauge for the fans as far as where the team is headed.

Yes the team went 8-8 last year, but IMHO, we still fielded an improved product.

 

[Polo]

I think your evaluation is fair

I don't...


Lots of coaches make "poor strategic decisions"....I can't think of a single coach that I've ever watched and not question some things they did...

Considering that Kubes was a first time head coach trying to pull a team up off its ass after a 2-14 total collapse of a season and has steadily built this team up to the point where we are considered a legit contender is a helluva accomplishment...For him to take us to the superbowl would be storybook...

Lets also not forget that early on and recently Kubes has been doing most of the play calling and he himsef acknowledged that him being so involved in play calling left him a little bit over extended...

Hopefully this year he'll losen up the reins on Shanny and get to actually coaching the game.

 

[GP]

he didn't say playoffs, he said improvement. you are right in saying that improving doesn't necessarily mean playoffs, but that wasn't his point.

The team has to have a 9-7 record next year for Kubiak to be worthy of re-signing to a new contract. If the Texans finish 8-8 or worse, why should Kubiak be rewarded with a new contract? At the end of the season if Kubiak doesn't get to 9-7 he will have a losing record over 4 seasons without one season of being a winning football team. Why not see if someone out there could be an upgrade over Kubiak. Cowher, Schottenheimer, Holmgren, Pete Carroll, and even Herm Edwards would all be potential replacements. I am ommitting Shanahan because there is no way he takes Gary's job. No way.

All I am saying is if they fail to become a winner, we need to see if we can improve the team and one of the easiest ways to improve a team's performance is to improve the coaching. It will take a high salary but we can get one of the top coaches to come here. We have to stop being such a carebear organization and get committed to winning over everything else.

I think Rick Smith isn't running a carebear organization. He hasn't thrown out some lame contracts to unworthy players. Weaver might be the last person to have benefitted from the previous regime's carebear attitude.

I used to like the idea of grabbing a big-name head coach, especially a guy like Cowher if he's available and willing. But I've seen enough of those guys. It's sort of like a merry-go-round, if you ask me. Holmgren is done. Schotty is done. Cowher, as much as I like him, just is not going to go about things with the same attitude he did with the Steelers. It's the Jimmy Johnson effect, if you will. You're never as good the second time around as you were in the build-up to your run of excellence. I mean, you've hit the top...you spent every ounce of sweat and blood...and sacrificed family time with your wife and kids along the way...and the grind of the job, upon your return, is too much. You eventually stop and recognize there's no more to prove here. You've done it all. Why do it again?

Shanahan, IMO, is the only one who is wired the right way to attempt a comeback of any kind. That guy is crazy consumed with the game if you ask me. I mean, I wouldn't doubt if the guy's skin has those little bumps on it like a football has.

Something I have realized over the past year or two: What I want and what I get are usually not the same thing. And as soon as I start obsessing with what I want (a playoff team, a Super Bowl, or a dynasty) I begin looking at this thing called "being a fan" way too seriously. The Patriots did what until the past 6 or 7 years? Not a dadgum thing. This thing is always cyclical. We've only been in existence for a few years...what pain does a Lions fan hold in their many years of suffering?

That's why I don't throw stones at those fans. They are die-hard, and we should be thankful for every year of "at least .500 football" that we can get. And if we get over the top some day? That's icing on the cake.

No team remains dominant, or even as a legitimate contender, for long stretches of time. Look at the Colts and Jags for proof of that. It always begins at some point, and ends at another point. And the time in-between is usually a fairly long wait. The Steelers have won how many Super Bowls and yet they have been in the league for how long? Statistically-speaking, shouldn't they have had twice as many titles to their credit by now? I won't crunch the numbers, but my gut (and it's a big one) tells me that even winning 1 or 2 or 3 titles over a period of a few decades is pretty good in the NFL.

I want Kubiak to pull out all the stops this year. I want aggressiveness from top to bottom, a refusal to leave anything on the field. No "protectionist" attitude. Go for it on 4th down when a punt would only put the ball a few more yards down the field. Risk a little, in the right spots. Be smart with challenges because time outs in the NFL are like an oasis in the desert.

Kubiak should have this team so ready on opening day, that we destroy the opponent's natural love for the game. We are, according to the tea leaves, ready to dominate our divisional foes...even at Lucas Oil Stadium. Texas invented oil, so we should beat a team that plays at a field named after it.

But if a few players go rogue on us, at the wrong time, and blow things at all the wrong moments in pivotal games--I'm talking stupid penalties and such--then I can't assess that loss on a head coach if he coached his ass off in that game. Yes, the head coach holds that player responsible, but there is a certain degree of a loss of control once the ball is kicked off each game.

Look, we all want the best. I just don't want this to turn into a "fan, not a real fan" debate. Everybody expects the playoffs, though we might disagree on the course of action if we don't make the playoffs.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

I'm sorry but I can't buy into this threshold of 9-7. If we go 9-7 this year, how have we improved at all? It is pretty well-established that most here and in the press are admitting that the rest of our division is expected to be significantly weaker than last year. How does winning 1 more game this year than last year demonstrate that WE have improved one iota as opposed to OUR COMPETITION being markedly lessened? More accurately, it could easily be argued that 9-7 is not only NOT an improvement, but an unacceptable move backward.

 

[dalemurphy]

he didn't say playoffs, he said improvement. you are right in saying that improving doesn't necessarily mean playoffs, but that wasn't his point.

The team has to have a 9-7 record next year for Kubiak to be worthy of re-signing to a new contract. If the Texans finish 8-8 or worse, why should Kubiak be rewarded with a new contract? At the end of the season if Kubiak doesn't get to 9-7 he will have a losing record over 4 seasons without one season of being a winning football team. Why not see if someone out there could be an upgrade over Kubiak. Cowher, Schottenheimer, Holmgren, Pete Carroll, and even Herm Edwards would all be potential replacements. I am ommitting Shanahan because there is no way he takes Gary's job. No way.

All I am saying is if they fail to become a winner, we need to see if we can improve the team and one of the easiest ways to improve a team's performance is to improve the coaching. It will take a high salary but we can get one of the top coaches to come here. We have to stop being such a carebear organization and get committed to winning over everything else.

I just threw up in my mouth!

 

[RipTraxx]

Taking a basically HS team to the 3rd best offense in the league in 3 YEARS?

He's got tenure in my book.

 

[GP]

Taking a basically HS team to the 3rd best offense in the league in 3 YEARS?

He's got tenure in my book.

And I think it's obvious that the guy spent those three years focusing only on the offense, and the defense was neglected--It was left to rot. Maybe letting it rot was the best thing to do at the time.

Which on one hand, a fan can be angry about that. But on the other hand, it's actually the only way to do things. I mean...seriously, there is no way a man can change everything all at once. And Kubiak, IMO, did what he does best: Offense.

Now he's shifting his focus to the defense. He got rid of the dead wood: Richard Smith, Weaver, Cochran. He and Rick Smith are not allowing Dunta to complicate things. They eased DeMeco back into the fold, which was the right person to be focusing on (out of the two players). He has gone defense in Round 1 with Mario, Okoye, and Cushing. DeMeco was a 2nd rounder. Barwin was a second rounder. And he's allowed Bush to bring in an ex-Cardinal (Antonio Smith) because Bush tihnks he will fit that style of aggressiveness and gap-shooting.

Throw in the FACT that Smithiak is not giving one inch to Justice, and only a smidge of crumbs to McClain, and I like what we got going on so far.

I'm still of the opinion that Rosencopter is what snapped everything into place. THAT was the day our team realized that they could compete and WIN if they just focused and played a full game. Capers' teams would have cried and hung their heads. By the end of the season, we beat the Packers at Lambeau in a picture-perfect manner in terms of the weather and playing that team in their house, we beat the Titans who think we always roll over for them, let our guard down vs. Oak, but then we wore out the Bears when they needed to beat us, and demoralized the Jags to the point of their defense just letting Slaton walk into the end zone at the end of the game.

In the past, we did good just to win the last game. And we thought it meant something for the the next season. Last season, we went a streak that I think got us over that obstacle that had always stood in the path of the Texans. Consistent wins.

I still don't know what has happened between our last regular season game, and now, that has made so many people so distraught and gloomy. Maybe it's reverse psychology? If we trash out the coach, and throw out threats, he'll magically get the job done? I did that crap back in the middle part of the season, continuing through the Cincy and Detroit games (go look at my posts back then) and almost every freaking person on this board was telling me that I was a doom-n-gloomer, depressing to listen to, that I was just so negative about the prospects of beating the teams we would face after the Bengals and Lions. My rep points dropped, people left messages telling me I needed to shut up and just enjoy the wins over those two teams. I guess it's en vogue to be a rain cloud right now. I have the worst timing, I guess. LOL.

So after my rants on why Kubiak can't do anything right, and that Schaub was never going to be anything more than a bench warmer with injury problems, I'll be darned if those guys didn't go out there and string together all those wins, to salvage practically the entire second half of the season. Not just a single game at the end of the year. Almost half the season. I took the advice of those people who criticized my behavior, and so I'm dispensing a little of that medicine right now.

Keep your chins up (for those who have double-chins).

 

[drewmar74]

I just threw up in my mouth!

QFT.

I'm so not down with any of the names on that list. I'd just assume have Gary, thanks.

 

[Mr. White]

Playoffs or bust.

The only exception should be if we win 10-12 games and miss the playoffs by some odd circumstance.

I'm of the opinion that if we don't at least show improvement every year, then the coach should be on the hotseat. And a 2nd straight 8-8 season wasn't an improvement.

You're right...

Belichick should have totally been on the hotseat after failing to live up to 16-0 again...

I mean...Dude won a whole 5 games less AND missed the play-offs...Screw a hot seat...fire his ass...

One sentence (the bolded one) taken out of context sure makes for a good strawman argument.

If you would have quoted the rest of the post, then you would have been agreeing with it. Belichick qualifies as the exception.

 

[Specnatz]

And I think it's obvious that the guy spent those three years focusing only on the offense, and the defense was neglected--It was left to rot. Maybe letting it rot was the best thing to do at the time.

Which on one hand, a fan can be angry about that. But on the other hand, it's actually the only way to do things. I mean...seriously, there is no way a man can change everything all at once. And Kubiak, IMO, did what he does best: Offense.

Every since Gary became the head coach he has drafted Defense in the first round. So maybe I am not understand how obvious it is that he left the defense to rot or how he is just now shifting his attention to that side of the ball. Maybe you could explain that to me so I am in the obvious crowd.

 

[Thorn]

Unless for no apparent reason whatsoever, the Texans take a horrible turn for the worse this year, I don't think Kubes is on the hot seat this year. Next year might be different though. Except for Rosencopter we might well have been 9-7 last year. Baring the unforseen, I don't think expecting 10-6 this year is unreasonable. Even so, I think Kubiac is safe for this season and starting the next one.

The Texans are a much better team under Kubiac, I just don't see where anyone can argue that particular fact.

 

[Ole Miss Texan]

Every since Gary became the head coach he has drafted Defense in the first round. So maybe I am not understand how obvious it is that he left the defense to rot or how he is just now shifting his attention to that side of the ball. Maybe you could explain that to me so I am in the obvious crowd.

My view is that Kubiak focused on what he does best and that's offense. Like you said, since he was here 3 of our 4 1st round picks has gone defense and 2 2nd rounders have gone to the defense and the other 2 were traded for a franchise-capable quarterback. So I think he spent a lot of the early picks on Defense b/c they were (a) rated higher than other players (b) they were considered needs and (c) the earlier 'D' players are typically better than those drafted later.

This suposedly allowed Kubiak to focus his attention on the Offense, teaching them, getting no names like Rosenfels, Walter, Brisiel, etc. and working on that. Early draft capital and some "big" free agent signings went to the D to "tide" over some of the gap in talent... and allow those coaches on that side more resources to make the D work... that didn't transpire. I don't think I explained my thoughts too well so you'll have to read my mind for the rest. Maybe Kubiak wanted to throw the 'D' some bones so he could spend most of his time on offense?

 

[TimeKiller]

Well, if you can make a potent offense out of mid rounders why not spend your big time upgrade on defense defense defense?

 

[danger6]

I don't think I explained my thoughts too well so you'll have to read my mind for the rest.

Got chicken on the mind? Thanks for the free lunch . . . I just found your post on the Inside The Loop section. (No Sports Talk Allowed) rep.

 

[Second Honeymoon]

I just threw up in my mouth!

herm edwards has done more in his career than Kubiak, but that doesnt matter because its all about being mr.homer and acting like Kubiak is some golden god who is beyond reproach. hell, why not build a statue of the guy outside the stadium. after all 8-8 is the litmus test for the Sunshine Crowd.

whatever, the Houston fanbase is embarassing at times. the most myopic clueless, carebear, bandwagonning fans in existence....building statues of losers and running winners out of town....same as it ever was

dale, why dont you go read some of the posts you wrote making excuse after bleeping excuse for YKW. if you do that you will realize that your ability to be objective about your own team is seriously lacking...but call us charlatans for being realistic and demanding results. God forbid we field a winning team.

 

[Joe Texan]

jshabang

Dude Kubes seat is cooler than yours

 

[thunderkyss]

I think we've kinda got off track here.

I doubt there are any fans here, that aren't expecting a play-off appearance. I'm not surprised to hear that McNair expects play-offs, and I'd be very disappointed, if Gary Kubiak, and the team he fields aren't expecting a SuperBowl win.

So for all the guys disappointed with the mediocre expectations of some of us fans..... I think you're way off base.

Now, to say that Kubiak should be fired, if we don't make the play-offs, or if we don't finish better than 8-8...... doesn't make a lot of sense. We should be looking at our team, and determining if we are improving, or not. & Wins & Losses are not always a good guage to go by.

For example, the New Orleans Saints. In 2006, they went to the NFC Championship game. But they aren't a better team today, than they were then. Streaky Offense, and blah defense.

I think we are.

We win games at home... period. We move the ball. We are zone blocking. We've got an offensive system. We've got three bona-fide pro-bowlers from the 2006 draft.

those are things we can look at, and guage if we are better/worse than we were in 2006.

Someone mentioned we were 2-10 against the Colts & Titans in the last 3 years. That's an area we need to improve. Someone else mentioned that we need to win on the road. We need to improve our redzone performance on both sides of the ball. We need to cut down on turn-overs.

I want to win the SuperBowl. I think this team is capable of doing it. But if we don't, I would be happy with this team, if we were able to do all those other things. There are a thousand things that could happen, that would throw us off course..... a hurricane can ruin Reliant, and we'll have to play all our home games in Oklahoma.

who knows.

Now, someone else mentioned Kubiak and his gaffes....... I think IlliniJen is pretty vocal about them. To me, all that shows is that Kubiak wasn't ready to be a head coach in 2006. & there's nothing wrong with that. We should've known. He was the OC, and that's apparent, because of what has done here in Houston. But Shanahan managed the games in Denver, down to calling the plays and what not.

Those are the things that Kubiak needs to work on. Just like Belichick. We could fire him, and let him move on to a division rival (Tennessee perhaps) and let him utilize what he learned against us. I think it is totally possible for a Sean Peyton, or Mike Smith to take this team, and win right away. But they couldn't have done that 3 years ago.......

 

[TEXANRED]

Unless for no apparent reason whatsoever, the Texans take a horrible turn for the worse this year, I don't think Kubes is on the hot seat this year. Next year might be different though. Except for Rosencopter we might well have been 9-7 last year. Baring the unforseen, I don't think expecting 10-6 this year is unreasonable. Even so, I think Kubiac is safe for this season and starting the next one.

The Texans are a much better team under Kubiac, I just don't see where anyone can argue that particular fact.

I wouldn't say stuff like that seeing how this is practically the same schedule that we went 2-14 on when expecting to go to the playoffs. (trade out the AFC North for the AFC East)

And would you look at that, another over achieving run first throw second QB will be coming out in the draft.

 

[PhilpW]

He's not on the hotseat now, but .500 or less going into December he'll feel the heat. There are no excuses this year, we have a potent offense, (must improve in the red zone), and an aggressive defensive coordinator. The players are there, it's up to the coaches to get them in position to win and that's the head coaches responsibility. I don't want to see a coaching carousel, but the time has come to succeed.

 

[Specnatz]

herm edwards has done more in his career than Kubiak, but that doesnt matter because its all about being mr.homer and acting like Kubiak is some golden god who is beyond reproach. hell, why not build a statue of the guy outside the stadium. after all 8-8 is the litmus test for the Sunshine Crowd.

whatever, the Houston fanbase is embarassing at times. the most myopic clueless, carebear, bandwagonning fans in existence....building statues of losers and running winners out of town....same as it ever was

dale, why dont you go read some of the posts you wrote making excuse after bleeping excuse for YKW. if you do that you will realize that your ability to be objective about your own team is seriously lacking...but call us charlatans for being realistic and demanding results. God forbid we field a winning team.

Coming from a person who at the beginning of last season was still blowing vy's horn and saying you would still take him over Mario and midway through Kubiaks second season you wanted him run out on a rail after being tar and feathered i will take Dale's view over hate any day.

As far as Herm goes he got worse at both stops he was at not better. Just because a guy has a winning season does not mean he is a great coach. Barry Switzer won a Super Bowl.

SH you saying anyone can not be objective is Oh and bringing up YKW is well, flat out pathetic. A lot of people were wrong about that, just because you got it right is no reason to keep bring it up. Just remember you were more wrong about Mario versus vy than most.

Football is not black&white in terms of improving versus wins and losses. I would rather take things in the context of how they happened versus saying if we do not make playoffs fire everyone.

 

[GP]

Every since Gary became the head coach he has drafted Defense in the first round. So maybe I am not understand how obvious it is that he left the defense to rot or how he is just now shifting his attention to that side of the ball. Maybe you could explain that to me so I am in the obvious crowd.

I meant that Kubiak didn't micro-manage the defense. He let Richard Smith have the run of the place, let him do his thang.

I don't think Kubiak was blind to the poor play of our defense--which some are saying should be one of the reasons why Kubiak is a dunce. I think he put his own personal energy and time and focus upon getting the offense rocking and rolling. And he was waiting for better timing to get the defense on the same level as the offense.

The draft picks used on defense was Gary's way of doing what he could, to stack up some ammo, for this very moment--The moment when he could move in the d-coord that he had wanted (or had at least liked a lot) all along.

 

[Specnatz]

I meant that Kubiak didn't micro-manage the defense. He let Richard Smith have the run of the place, let him do his thang.

I don't think Kubiak was blind to the poor play of our defense--which some are saying should be one of the reasons why Kubiak is a dunce. I think he put his own personal energy and time and focus upon getting the offense rocking and rolling. And he was waiting for better timing to get the defense on the same level as the offense.

The draft picks used on defense was Gary's way of doing what he could, to stack up some ammo, for this very moment--The moment when he could move in the d-coord that he had wanted (or had at least liked a lot) all along.

Of course he is not going to micro manage the defense, it is not his thing. The only coach I know of that was brought up on one side of the ball who can micro manage both is Bill Belichick. This year they, New England, does not even have an Offensive Coordinator. Belichick was brought on the defensive side of the ball and when the defense has struggled he has gotten involved. No other coach I can think of has done this. Hopefully Coach Kubiak lets Jr take over more of the play calling this year so he can be more of a team manager than trying to do that and call plays. which i know a lot of folks on here has been very critical of, and I think it would help the team. Just from me recall of coaches in the past who have said they became better HC when they let the OC do their job and they could pay attention to the whole team.

As far as Kubiak being blind to the poor play of the defense, of course not. But I think at first he thought it was because of the poor play of the players C&C had brought in versus coaching. As he got more and more of his own players in and the defense still sucks he realize that not only was it the players but the coaching as well. Hence the limiting of Richards ability to call certain plays at the end of last season. Then during the offseason he got rid of DC, DL, and second coaches and with the jettisoning of Greenwood, Green, and Weaver with a total of $9 million in dead money. I think it is more about learning as a HC about defenses, than waiting or ignoring the defense.

 

[Battle Red Flash]

http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/101533-texans-owner-puts-kubiak-on-hot-seat
Even a classy owner like mcnair has a breakin point.......and I love it...hold him accountable........kubes is toast if the texans come out with another brain fart start like last season....

While I do think Kubes is on a warm seat if they don't make the playoffs, the team could go 10-6, and not make it. Don't think they'd fire him then.

-- Also, I don't like making excuses for anyone, BUT..... if any coach has an excuse for a bad start last year, it's Kubes. I do not agree it was a brain fart. Playing very good teams, and mentally fighting the hurricane would sap any team.

 

[TEXANRED]

I want Kubiak to be a winner here in Houston. I really do. I think it makes a great hometown boy does good story. A man in the shadow of the Luv Ya Blu era comes back home and transforms a last place team into a champion. Thats what I want. Badly.

But the reality is we are going into year 4. In his first 3 years he has gone from 6-10 to two consecutive 8-8 seasons. He has mantained a losing record in the AFC South going 2-10 against the Colts and Titans. He has also proven that he was no better in year 3 than he was in year 1 with clock management, challenges, or decision making.

This is the most talent that this team has ever had. He has assembled a star studded cast of coachs with Ray Rhodes, Alex Gibbs, and now Bruce Matthews.

I wrote in another thread that this is the year of no excusses b/c there are none. To steal a line from Rick Flair, If you wanna be the man then you gotta beat the man.

Its playoffs or bust.

 

[TheRealJoker]

Everyone expects playoffs. Kubes wont necessarily be on the hot seat if we dont make the playoffs as long as its a situation where we win 10 or 11 games and dont get in. I think the point is that just being competitive isn't gonna cut it anymore. We've gotta be winners, if we aren't winners then we've gotta find someone who will make us winners.

Right now Frank Bush is gonna decide whether Kubes gets fired or gets an extension. We had the opportunity to make a run at some solid DC candidates but Kubes chose "his guy". The ability to make that decision means Mcnair has confidence in Kubes, now its up to Kubes to make sure that confidence wasn't misplaced.

 

[Second Honeymoon]

Everyone expects playoffs. Kubes wont necessarily be on the hot seat if we dont make the playoffs as long as its a situation where we win 10 or 11 games and dont get in. I think the point is that just being competitive isn't gonna cut it anymore. We've gotta be winners, if we aren't winners then we've gotta find someone who will make us winners.

Right now Frank Bush is gonna decide whether Kubes gets fired or gets an extension. We had the opportunity to make a run at some solid DC candidates but Kubes chose "his guy". The ability to make that decision means Mcnair has confidence in Kubes, now its up to Kubes to make sure that confidence wasn't misplaced.

TRJ, great post. The emboldened text couldn't be more accurate. If Bush pretty much sucks like RS did, then Kubiak must be held accountable for not looking outside his circle of friends/Denver network at someone with more credential, experience, and established scheme.

As for the record, I personally think 9-7 is good enough all things considered. Not great, but probably enough to merit another year, playoffs or no playoffs. Now if they are 8-8 or worse, we have to seriously look at other HC situations or we reward losing with a new contract OR have a lame duck coach in 2010. Both scenarios would be pretty bad for the club. With the amount of proven HC talent out there currently without a job, the timing would be pretty good. The thing is that most of the top HC talent would necessitate firing Kubiak and Rick Smith because they would want to bring in their own guy or be the GM themselves.

I like Kubiak. He is a bit too much of a flatliner for my tastes, but he has done adequate during his time here and unlike the previous regime, we have seen players improve with coaching. His failures have been tied to keeping people around that suck (greenwood, carr, richard smith and pretty much every defensive coach, weaver)

 

[Texecutioner]

I f the Texans don't make the playoffs and Kubiak is fired then I'll be totally fine with that. There have been plenty of teams that were in the cellar when we got Kubiak and that have been in the cellar even after that and rebounded very quickly and made it to the post season. I don't have a problem with any team firing a coach if he has been there for 4 seasons and not had one post season appearance.

Now if the Texans go 10-6 and don't get it, then I won't have a problem with Kubes getting ONE more season to make it to the post season since 10-6 is a good enough record to get you in the post season in plenty of seasons, but I wouldn't grant him any more than a one year extension off of that and in that next season it's playoffs or bust.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

There's really a wide range of possibilities here.

If we finish between 0-16 to 6-10, then I think Kubiak is gone.

If we finish 7-9, I think Kubiak is probably gone but if we really had a lot of injuries to star players, he might get another year.

If we finish 8-8, I think it's possible for Kubiak to be gone. But the team has to look like it hasn't made any progress and/or there was no rash of major injuries to major players. If we finish 8-8 and we make the playoffs, then Kubiak stays.

If we finish 9-7, I expect Kubiak to stay unless the team looks really bad down the stretch. If we make the playoffs, Kubiak stays.

If we finish 10-6, Kubiak stays unless possibly if we started 10-0 and then lost the final 6 in spectacularly horrible fashion. The playoffs don't matter. If we make it in or not is irrelevant if we win 10+ games.

At least, that's the way I see it. I think there's a very good chance that Kubiak stays.

 

[Polo]

There's really a wide range of possibilities here.

If we finish between 0-16 to 6-10, then I think Kubiak is gone.

If we finish 7-9, I think Kubiak is probably gone but if we really had a lot of injuries to star players, he might get another year.

If we finish 8-8, I think it's possible for Kubiak to be gone. But the team has to look like it hasn't made any progress and/or there was no rash of major injuries to major players. If we finish 8-8 and we make the playoffs, then Kubiak stays.

If we finish 9-7, I expect Kubiak to stay unless the team looks really bad down the stretch. If we make the playoffs, Kubiak stays.

If we finish 10-6, Kubiak stays unless possibly if we started 10-0 and then lost the final 6 in spectacularly horrible fashion. The playoffs don't matter. If we make it in or not is irrelevant if we win 10+ games.

At least, that's the way I see it. I think there's a very good chance that Kubiak stays.

Basically it depends on how the team plays.

 

[Polo]

One sentence (the bolded one) taken out of context sure makes for a good strawman argument.

If you would have quoted the rest of the post, then you would have been agreeing with it. Belichick qualifies as the exception.

You are the one speaking in generalities. And Belichick is no exception and I'm not even sure how you can logically say that...

All coaches will eventually have a season where they win less games than the year before.

My point was that the record should have less to do with it than the way the team played. There are more variables than just the record. You say that the second str8 8-8 season wasn't an improvement and I disagree...I think that the way we played was improved even though the record didn't reflect it.

 

[El Tejano]

Kubes is on the hot seat but now it's cooling down.

 

[Specnatz]

TRJ, great post. The emboldened text couldn't be more accurate. If Bush pretty much sucks like RS did, then Kubiak must be held accountable for not looking outside his circle of friends/Denver network at someone with more credential, experience, and established scheme.

As for the record, I personally think 9-7 is good enough all things considered. Not great, but probably enough to merit another year, playoffs or no playoffs. Now if they are 8-8 or worse, we have to seriously look at other HC situations or we reward losing with a new contract OR have a lame duck coach in 2010. Both scenarios would be pretty bad for the club. With the amount of proven HC talent out there currently without a job, the timing would be pretty good. The thing is that most of the top HC talent would necessitate firing Kubiak and Rick Smith because they would want to bring in their own guy or be the GM themselves.

I like Kubiak. He is a bit too much of a flatliner for my tastes, but he has done adequate during his time here and unlike the previous regime, we have seen players improve with coaching. His failures have been tied to keeping people around that suck (greenwood, carr, richard smith and pretty much every defensive coach, weaver)

This is the first I can recall you say you like Kubiak. I know you preferr firery guys versus even keel guys.

As far as keeping certain players like Weaver and Greenwood, it is not like he had much of a choice. Cutting the players prior to this year would have caused a lot of cap issues. Blame C&C for Greenwood and I will also blame Weaver's high contract on Casserly and RS since Kubiak got a guy both said would help the defense. Yes Kubiak is the HC so it falls to him but a GM is supposed to know what the market value is for a player. Geen is squarely on Kubiak and Sherman, Kubiak is the HC so he takes the blame for that deal.

Kubiak on offense has been leaps and bounds above anything we had previous, now he needs to let Jr call the plays so he can concentrate on game management. While he has improved in each of his 3 years he still needs to get far better.

 

[GP]

So it all comes down to a "he's gotta' do this," or "he's gotta' do that."

I've seen a lot of variations on what Gary Kubiak has to do in order to remain the HC of the Texans.

I will once again say that you guys are projecting your own anxiousness upon the future of Gary Kubiak. We're supposed to make the playoffs, and so if we don't...then his ass needs to get fired.

I just think that's silliness. I mean, let's all step away from our pet point of view for a second, re-scan this thread, and try to hold a straight face as we re-read all the different criteria that's been proposed. IMO, some of you have stated what you WANT or EXPECT and you're hell-bent on backing it up against the criticisms of others until the cows come home (such is life on a message board, I suppose).

I think McNair is a Pat Bowlen type of owner. He wants the club to remain profitable, keep a level of dignity with its players and coaches, be a good face to the city it plays in, and maintain a level of sanity that isn't found on other teams.

He wants to create a family, a long-term tenure for a guy he feels isn't screwing things up too badly. There have been some other coaches who have higher profiles than Kubiak, and they have royally sucked and screwed things up in a hurry. There's a sense of wisdom in saying "I'm not going to fire my head coach for not making the playoffs when I like the direction he has taken this team."

The only solid theory I have seen is Vinny's theory. McNair will trust, and will trust sometimes beyond the normal limits (see HWMNBN for an example).

I think Gary Kubiak, like his QB (Schaub), finds a way to get over the top this year. I think it's going to be an even better year than we could even imagine. Just a hunch.

 

[thunderkyss]

The draft picks used on defense was Gary's way of doing what he could, to stack up some ammo, for this very moment--The moment when he could move in the d-coord that he had wanted (or had at least liked a lot) all along.

I think that was pretty much saying Richard, we've given you the talent, you can't use that excuse anymore.

 

[thunderkyss]

There have been plenty of teams that were in the cellar when we got Kubiak and that have been in the cellar even after that and rebounded very quickly and made it to the post season.

Who?

 

[mattieuk]

I don't think this is, or should be a make or break season for Kubiak.

He came into a poor football team, and has changed us. We have one of the most potent passing games in the NFL. Our ZBS has become effective, big play creating and and great weapon to have. Our drafting has been pretty darned good, and we've picked up some steals in the later rounds.

All we need is Gary to get us a defense and we're rocking and rolling. Playoff or no playoffs.

 

[TEXANRED]

So it all comes down to a "he's gotta' do this," or "he's gotta' do that."

I've seen a lot of variations on what Gary Kubiak has to do in order to remain the HC of the Texans.

I will once again say that you guys are projecting your own anxiousness upon the future of Gary Kubiak. We're supposed to make the playoffs, and so if we don't...then his ass needs to get fired.

I just think that's silliness. I mean, let's all step away from our pet point of view for a second, re-scan this thread, and try to hold a straight face as we re-read all the different criteria that's been proposed. IMO, some of you have stated what you WANT or EXPECT and you're hell-bent on backing it up against the criticisms of others until the cows come home (such is life on a message board, I suppose).

I think McNair is a Pat Bowlen type of owner. He wants the club to remain profitable, keep a level of dignity with its players and coaches, be a good face to the city it plays in, and maintain a level of sanity that isn't found on other teams.

He wants to create a family, a long-term tenure for a guy he feels isn't screwing things up too badly. There have been some other coaches who have higher profiles than Kubiak, and they have royally sucked and screwed things up in a hurry. There's a sense of wisdom in saying "I'm not going to fire my head coach for not making the playoffs when I like the direction he has taken this team."

The only solid theory I have seen is Vinny's theory. McNair will trust, and will trust sometimes beyond the normal limits (see HWMNBN for an example).

I think Gary Kubiak, like his QB (Schaub), finds a way to get over the top this year. I think it's going to be an even better year than we could even imagine. Just a hunch.

OK, so here is a fair question. If it were left up to you, how long would you give him and under what circumstances would you give him the boot?

 

[TheRealJoker]

I don't think this is, or should be a make or break season for Kubiak.

He came into a poor football team, and has changed us. We have one of the most potent passing games in the NFL. Our ZBS has become effective, big play creating and and great weapon to have. Our drafting has been pretty darned good, and we've picked up some steals in the later rounds.

All we need is Gary to get us a defense and we're rocking and rolling. Playoff or no playoffs.

That's why Frank Bush is the key. We could've had a guy like Sean Mcdermott or maybe even Greg Williams. One guy is projected to be a good DC with his Jim Johnson lineage while the other had a track record of success.

But Kubiak chose HIS guy and he's gonna take credit for that decision whether its good or bad in the form of receiving his contract extension or pink slip.

 

[TEXANRED]

I don't think this is, or should be a make or break season for Kubiak.

He came into a poor football team, and has changed us. We have one of the most potent passing games in the NFL. Our ZBS has become effective, big play creating and and great weapon to have. Our drafting has been pretty darned good, and we've picked up some steals in the later rounds.

All we need is Gary to get us a defense and we're rocking and rolling. Playoff or no playoffs.

Gary Kubiak is fantastic at scouting and evaluation. I think he would make a damn good GM.

His coaching however............eh.

 

[Lucky]

There have been plenty of teams that were in the cellar when we got Kubiak and that have been in the cellar even after that and rebounded very quickly and made it to the post season.

Who?

The 7 other "reigning" division cellar dwellers when Kubiak took the job were:

AFC East: Jets
AFC North: Ravens
AFC West: Raiders
NFC East: Eagles
NFC North: Packers
NFC South: Saints
NFC West: Cardinals

The only 2005 cellar dwellers not to make the playoffs over the past 3 seasons are the Raiders and the Texans.

 

[Runner]

The 7 other "reigning" division cellar dwellers when Kubiak took the job were:

AFC East: Jets
AFC North: Ravens
AFC West: Raiders
NFC East: Eagles
NFC North: Packers
NFC South: Saints
NFC West: Cardinals

The only 2005 cellar dwellers not to make the playoffs over the past 3 seasons are the Raiders and the Texans.

Beyond that there are teams like Atlanta and Miami that made great turnarounds in less time. In the case of these two in just the last year.

 

[Specnatz]

The 7 other "reigning" division cellar dwellers when Kubiak took the job were:

AFC East: Jets
AFC North: Ravens
AFC West: Raiders
NFC East: Eagles
NFC North: Packers
NFC South: Saints
NFC West: Cardinals

The only 2005 cellar dwellers not to make the playoffs over the past 3 seasons are the Raiders and the Texans.

Beyond that there are teams like Atlanta and Miami that made great turnarounds in less time. In the case of these two in just the last year.

Then you have the saints and Packers who went up and then went back down and in the case of the saints they are not looking at recovering (IMO) one year wonders.

Oh and of the teams listed who were in the playoffs with-in the previous two years before Kubiak took over?

 

[Lucky]

I knew better than braking the Sunshine Club's 5th Commandment. My bad.

 

[ChampionTexan]

The 7 other "reigning" division cellar dwellers when Kubiak took the job were:

AFC East: Jets
AFC North: Ravens
AFC West: Raiders
NFC East: Eagles
NFC North: Packers
NFC South: Saints
NFC West: Cardinals

The only 2005 cellar dwellers not to make the playoffs over the past 3 seasons are the Raiders and the Texans.

Actually, in '05 the 49ers finished a game behind the Cardinals (4-12 for them vs. 5-11 for the Cards), and the Browns were tied for last with the Ravens at 6-10. So there's two more "Cellar dwellers" not to make the playoffs, and the Cards don't qualify for that title anymore. Additionally, the Pack and the Jets were only one year removed from playoff appearances with the Jets going 10-6 in 2004 to gain a wildcard, and the Pack doing the same to win the NFC North.

This stuff is kind of interesting, but it doesn't tell you much. Anything can be skewed to make a point.

 

[NitroGSXR]

The 7 other "reigning" division cellar dwellers when Kubiak took the job were:

AFC East: Jets
AFC North: Ravens
AFC West: Raiders
NFC East: Eagles
NFC North: Packers
NFC South: Saints
NFC West: Cardinals

The only 2005 cellar dwellers not to make the playoffs over the past 3 seasons are the Raiders and the Texans.

Wow.

Information is power and you just gave me a lot of information right here. I privately scoffed at every post/paper/link saying it's do-or-die time for Kubiak until this post.

I think I need to think about Kubiak's measureables that matter some more. Maybe there's some merit to this thread after all. This thread has taken a life of its own unsupported by the article in the first post.