Kevin Walter can go sit on the bench..

[GP]

I just have a hard time giving Gary "props" on going after WRs this draft. It's just like the lack of production for years at safety that was killing this defense. He doesn't make a change until it is glaringly evident something has to be done to shore up the position(s). Difference is AJ (at least when healthy) has covered for the lack of anything beyond the spot and the offense has been varied enough to cover up for the lack of production at the position.

Posey is starting to look like JJ 2.0; another project who we all have to hope will work out and will have a fairly high round draft pick investment to keep him around.

However, as I criticize, I do have to give Kubiak/Smith credit for Martin and picking Jean as an UDFA. Both looks like gamers in PS at least.

I think Posey is dealing with making the jump into NFL-caliber ball. Brandon Brooks, IMO, is having that same sort of issue. To me, those two guys look (or by the reports I have heard thus far) as if they're still that college ball player who is sort of not progressing into NFL readiness as fast as Keshawn Martin has.

Two guys that I think embody the not-so-ready-for-the-NFL are: Kareem Jackson and Trindon Holliday. Both of them have taken a couple of years to grow into an NFL-readiness that we can see developing, finally, in the preseason thus far. Attitude, a sense of belonging, confidence, it's taken awhile for those two guys to really sync with what this team requires of them.

I mean, as much as people in the media want to gush about how NFL-ready Andrew Luck is at this point....those same people need to watch tape of K-Mart and how Schaub has been connecting with K-Mart as if they've played together for years already. It's spooky crazy how good K-Mart is playing. He just appears into the windows he needs to and BAM! quick strike catch and crazy YAC. Even the end-around play two games ago was really nice looking, much more productive and technically-sound than Jacoby's ever was.

For this, I grant Kubiak some grace...because he picked up Posey and Martin in the draft and he has immediately hit on K-Mart and jury is definitely out on Posey. I think Posey is a guy who comes back next year and everything just clicks. Some guys just develop into NFL-readiness slower than others, IMO.

But when you're the HC and you've got AJ at WR1, you probably don't tend to think it's a big deal if you don't nail the WR picks or even the FA acquisitions. I'd wager to say that AJ's prolonged absence last year has driven Kubiak to take it more seriously, though, from here onward. K-Mart is going to be HUGE.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

Calling Devier JJ 2.0 at this stage is WAY too early. He's already shown a much better work ethic than JJ, I think. It took JJ a few years to become a hard worker from what I remember. And at this point, JJ was frankly tearing it up on special teams.

Drafting WRs is a hit-or-miss proposition at best and they did take a risk with Posey. He could bomb out.

BUT... if they hit with Martin, then Posey is irrelevant. If Jean develops, then Posey is just gravy.

If Posey does develop (and at this stage, he might still end up being the best of the bunch) and those other guys turn out to be good, too, then we're going to have one of the best receiving corps in the league.

But there are a lot of ifs there and we've only played 2 preseason games. We've got a long way to go before we know about Posey.

 

[Goldensilence]

Way too early for all of that...u don't draft a guy in the 3rd round and "expect" him to come in and take #2/#3 reps off the bat in preseason...

Looks like they did very well on Martin, though...love it... Hope that holds up...

I didn't get a good feeling on draft day nabbing a guy who had a lower draft grade and missed 10 games last year due to suspension whether I agreed with it or not.

I guess I just don't think that this team, which wasn't able to really address a lot of spots via FA and had to lean heavily on this draft for improvement to take a project like this in the third. Not to mention coming into this season there was going to be at least 3 spots at WR up for grab as they turn around the position.

Thankfully, it's looking like Jean and Martin are picking up the slack.

 

[GP]

Calling Devier JJ 2.0 at this stage is WAY too early. He's already shown a much better work ethic than JJ, I think. It took JJ a few years to become a hard worker from what I remember. And at this point, JJ was frankly tearing it up on special teams.

Drafting WRs is a hit-or-miss proposition at best and they did take a risk with Posey. He could bomb out.

BUT... if they hit with Martin, then Posey is irrelevant. If Jean develops, then Posey is just gravy.

If Posey does develop (and at this stage, he might still end up being the best of the bunch) and those other guys turn out to be good, too, then we're going to have one of the best receiving corps in the league.

But there are a lot of ifs there and we've only played 2 preseason games. We've got a long way to go before we know about Posey.

I think your post dove-tails nicely with mine.

K-Mart has consumed all of the oxygen in the room so far. How the hell does a guy like Posey, who missed most of the NCAA season last year (probably dealing with the residue off of that, IMO), look at what K-Mart has been doing--how quickly K-Mart has exploded out of the starting block--and try to compete with that?!? LOL, he can't. K-Mart is dominating. K-Mart, and I know this is still very early, but still...the dude is phenomenal from what I have seen and he hasn't even been playing full snaps and ****. It's really, really promising for K-Mart.

I think Posey needs a year. He needs to sit and soak up the Texans system. But I bet once he clicks, the day when he jumps up and decides it's time for him to pour it on...he's going to do well. I think K-Mart and Jean and Posey will slowly become this team's WR crew. And maybe a new guy here and there, also.

 

[GP]

I was really hard on the Posey pick back when the draft happened.

The guy is going to need a year, I'm really sure of it. He seems like he's that Kareem Jackson or Trindon Holliday type of player who has the skills, has the heart, etc., but for many reasons just gonna' develop a bit slower than others. I have been a KJ hater, too, and his play in the preseason right now (which I think started in the playoff game vs. baltimore last season!) shows me that some guys just need t-i-m-e. I didn't think KJ had it in him. I thought he was a busted pick.

But because of KJ's slower development, it gives me hope for Posey.

How many rookies really, truly, shift into overdrive right from the start? You can have 5th round rookies who look like 1st rounders and 1st rounders who look like 5th rounders when camp and preseason begins...this is why I love football so much--The inability to always know what ya' got until what ya' got gets into camp and hits the field in preseason. And we'd heard K-Mart was doing well in practices, but man oh man sometimes you think a guy might just be a workout warrior. From the games I have seen, K-Mart is a machine.

 

[HOU-TEX]

Jacoby used to be a pre-season warrior too.

Like Vinny said, Walter will slowly be phased out as long as the newbs continue to prove their worth throughout the season.

That said, I'm really diggin this K-Mart kid. He seems to have great hands and apparently has a similar personality to that of AJ. AJ's mini-me

 

[GP]

Jacoby used to be a pre-season warrior too.

Like Vinny said, Walter will slowly be phased out as long as the newbs continue to prove their worth throughout the season.

That said, I'm really diggin this K-Mart kid. He seems to have great hands and apparently has a similar personality to that of AJ. AJ's mini-me

See, I don't think he's a mini-AJ. OK, maybe in substance, but not in style.

I struggle to know how to describe K-Mart. I want to say Derrick Mason in his prime...but yet it's not a fully reasonable comparison, right?

K-Mart appears to be a lot like Steve Smith (Panthers) to me...the guy who catches or weaves through traffic and once he touches the ball his athleticism is too much for defenses to handle. Jacoby was supposed to be that, but ya' know...well, anyways...

AJ, to me, is that large-framed guy who has deceptive stride...he's past the defenders and leaping for grabs that only he can make (climbing the ladder or going into traffic) and K-Mart is a knifing, slashing kind of guy. He's not really a true slot receiver and yet he's not really a wide out either. He's sort of like a mixture of both. A hybrid slot/wide out who, if anything, represents the flexibility of a guy like Owen Daniels...you can't begin to find him AND cover all the routes that he can perform.

 

[The Medic01]

See, I don't think he's a mini-AJ. OK, maybe in substance, but not in style.

I struggle to know how to describe K-Mart. I want to say Derrick Mason in his prime...but yet it's not a fully reasonable comparison, right?

K-Mart appears to be a lot like Steve Smith (Panthers) to me...the guy who catches or weaves through traffic and once he touches the ball his athleticism is too much for defenses to handle. Jacoby was supposed to be that, but ya' know...well, anyways...

AJ, to me, is that large-framed guy who has deceptive stride...he's past the defenders and leaping for grabs that only he can make (climbing the ladder or going into traffic) and K-Mart is a knifing, slashing kind of guy. He's not really a true slot receiver and yet he's not really a wide out either. He's sort of like a mixture of both. A hybrid slot/wide out who, if anything, represents the flexibility of a guy like Owen Daniels...you can't begin to find him AND cover all the routes that he can perform.

I most look forward to watching him take a 10 yard route to the house. YAC is not AJs strong suit.

 

[Rey]

CB, please re-read my posts carefully.

What I really like for you to do is to go to profootball reference and check out those 3 years from 1998 to 2000.

See how many attempts the Broncos QBs had in those years.
Check to see how many passes their #3 and #4 caught, how many their major threats out of the backfield caught.

Then you will see that the make-up of the Broncos teams in those years were very different from that of the Texans of late.

Their #3' best season in those years were like 4 catches;
their RB' best season was like 23 catches.

With more pass attempts (than the Texans had last year) and very little contriubution from those other positions, you can be sure that more passes were thrown McCaffrey's way.

And like I said, you can only look at what Walter does up to 2011 (when he was 30) and compare it to McCaffrey up to the same age (1998).

You realize that Schaub is usually at the top of the league in pass attempts per/gm....

KW is not anywhere near the receiver that McCaffrey was. It's not even close.

 

[eriadoc]

K-Mart appears to be a lot like Steve Smith (Panthers) to me...the guy who catches or weaves through traffic and once he touches the ball his athleticism is too much for defenses to handle.

Steve Smith is the guy I thought about, but he's going to have to show a mean streak to get compared to Steve Smith. FWIW though, Smith didn't get on the field outside of STs much his first couple years.

 

[Double Barrel]

If Arian Foster takes a 50% paycut next year, then yeah I'll speculate on his perceived value to the team. You just don't see this happen much in the NFL, which is why I'm bringing it up. It's abnormal, and if Kevin Walter is worth 3 million a year to other teams, then I would expect him to get cut and go elsewhere. He nearly signed with Baltimore the last time he hit UFA.

Instead, I think what happened is that Rick called him into his office and explained the situation to him. We are cap-strapped, and his 3.5 million is not guaranteed this year, so Rick probably said they were planning on cutting him unless they can work out some arrangement instead. Kevin's agent negotiates a bit and they land on the 2 million number, saving the team 1.5. Why Kevin did that, I don't know, but it happened, and it's more than I can say they did for Eric Winston's situation.

I don't disagree with you. I think Walter understands that his #2 status is based upon how they utilize him, which is somewhat unique and he would probably not have the opportunity with most other teams.

I also think he's a team player and likes Houston, so all these things combined presented a situation that he knew that he'd have to take a cut to stay on the team and playing hard ball about his salary could end his time as a Texan.

Will people stop the "Madden and fantasy football" crap. It has nothing to do with my opinion.

My mention of FF and Madden was not a direct knock on you. I have just noticed over the years an over-reliance on stats to evaluate players when many times the value to a team is not necessarily recorded as a stat. FF has many fans so absorbed with stat sheets that they are unable to be objective. Same with Madden and unrealistic trade scenarios and talent level of individual players.

It's just an observation, and no need to get upset about it any more than I would get upset that your opinion is for benching Walter.

I think we'll see Walter lose snaps over the course of the year and will be Billy Miller'd after this season if the others progress like it looks like they might.

I agree. I think most positions improve when they have someone in the wings competing for playing time.

Walter has been a solid player for us, but I am not attached to anyone so much that I want loyalty over talent. Even AJ will eventually be replaced, but most likely not with someone nearly as awesome.

 

[rush2112mn]

I think the #2 wide reciever spot is up for grabs myself. I have seen some real good things out of Jean and Martin. I don't think Walters has got that spot locked up myself.

 

[Thorn]

I think the #2 wide reciever spot is up for grabs myself. I have seen some real good things out of Jean and Martin. I don't think Walters has got that spot locked up myself.

For the start of the season, I think Walter has it locked up. But as the season progresses, that may change if Jean and Martin show their stuff in real games.

 

[The Medic01]

My take is this. Kubiak wants a playmaking WR downfield. He does know however that Martin and Jean have performed well in preseason only up to this point. I think he starts Walter simply because he has game experience. If by week 10 or so Jean is still performing better than Walter he will take Walters spot. Just my take.


Note: If only Martin plays better he still will not supplant Walter because he is not suited for playing outside.

 

[ObsiWan]

My take is this. Kubiak wants a playmaking WR downfield. He does know however that Martin and Jean have performed well in preseason only up to this point. I think he starts Walter simply because he has game experience. If by week 10 or so Jean is still performing better than Walter he will take Walters spot. Just my take.


Note: If only Martin plays better he still will not supplant Walter because he is not suited for playing outside.

It may not take until week ten.

 

[steelbtexan]

My take is this. Kubiak wants a playmaking WR downfield. He does know however that Martin and Jean have performed well in preseason only up to this point. I think he starts Walter simply because he has game experience. If by week 10 or so Jean is still performing better than Walter he will take Walters spot. Just my take.


Note: If only Martin plays better he still will not supplant Walter because he is not suited for playing outside.

I agree with your take.

However you underestimate Martin. IMHO

What happened to Posey, he seems to be like a fish out of water.

 

[Vinny]

Steve Smith is the guy I thought about, but he's going to have to show a mean streak to get compared to Steve Smith. FWIW though, Smith didn't get on the field outside of STs much his first couple years.

Martin kind of gives me more of a Drew Hill (RIP) vibe. Sudden, creates separation, has good hands and is all business on the field. He should be great in the slot.

 

[michaelm]

Martin kind of gives me more of a Drew Hill (RIP) vibe. Sudden, creates separation, has good hands and is all business on the field. He should be great in the slot.

Funny, I was talking to AJ (Alan Burge) at the game Saturday, and he compared him to Ernest Givens.

 

[eriadoc]

Martin kind of gives me more of a Drew Hill (RIP) vibe. Sudden, creates separation, has good hands and is all business on the field. He should be great in the slot.

I like that. That is a much better comparison.

 

[76Texan]

You realize that Schaub is usually at the top of the league in pass attempts per/gm....

KW is not anywhere near the receiver that McCaffrey was. It's not even close.

According to Profootball reference, McCaffrey came into the league in 1991, at the age of 23
He played 3 years for the Giants and 1 year for the Niner before heading to the Broncos.
In those 4 years, he totaled 103 catches.

He joined the Broncos in 1995.
In his first 4 years with the Broncos (between the age of 27-30) he totaled 196 catches in 61 games played
(39, 48, 45, 64).
In those 4 years, the Broncos had 2,134 pass attempts.

196 catches / 2,134 attempts = 9.18 per cent

...

In the 4 years when Walter was between 23-26, he caught 109 balls (6 more than McCaffrey during the same age period).

In the next 4 years (all with the Texans) Walter caught 203 balls (60, 53, 51, 39) - 7 more than McCaffrey.
(My previous addition was incorrect, showing that Walter had a few less than McCaffrey).

He also played in 61 games, the same as McCaffrey.

The Texans had 2,189 pass attempts in those 4 years.
203 catches / 2,189 attempts = 9.27 per cent.

Walter's production is actually better than McCaffrey in both periods of time.

 

[eriadoc]

If the math doesn't fit, you must acquit!

 

[76Texan]

If the math doesn't fit, you must acquit!

msr

 

[Carr Bombed]

If the math doesn't fit, you must acquit!

Problem is the numbers don't fit.. it's simply someone over analyizing stats, bending them to try to create some argument, and ignoring the actual on the field production... which is what 76 always does. Throws out a bunch a stats, but ignores the production.

Walter has never had the type of production that Mccaffery had during the Broncos glory years and he doesn't come close to being that type of receiver.. sorry.

 

[Carr Bombed]

Double post

 

[aussie_texan]

My take is this. Kubiak wants a playmaking WR downfield. He does know however that Martin and Jean have performed well in preseason only up to this point. I think he starts Walter simply because he has game experience. If by week 10 or so Jean is still performing better than Walter he will take Walters spot. Just my take.


Note: If only Martin plays better he still will not supplant Walter because he is not suited for playing outside.

im not sure where this is coming from. just because his under 6ft doesn't mean he can't play outside. he as all the talent and ability too and we have even seen him line up outside on numerous plays during the pre-season.

 

[thunderkyss]

Problem is the numbers don't fit.. it's simply someone over analyizing stats, bending them to try to create some argument, and ignoring the actual on the field production... which is what 76 always does. Throws out a bunch a stats, but ignores the production.

Walter has never had the type of production that Mccaffery had during the Broncos glory years and he doesn't come close to being that type of receiver.. sorry.

No, the problem is that our memory doesn't serve us well in this case. I thought more of Mccaffery than what the numbers show. I guess, same as Matt, when the games don't matter the production seems a lot less. Mccaffery was always making clutch plays to keep his team in contention, a situation Walter has only recently found himself in, & Schaub never has.

Winning changes everything.

 

[eriadoc]

Problem is the numbers don't fit.. it's simply someone over analyizing stats, bending them to try to create some argument, and ignoring the actual on the field production... which is what 76 always does. Throws out a bunch a stats, but ignores the production.

Walter has never had the type of production that Mccaffery had during the Broncos glory years and he doesn't come close to being that type of receiver.. sorry.

First off, the little catch phrase was a joke, hence the smilie. Second, since you're the guy that flat out said you're not changing your opinion no matter what facts come to bear, I'll just disregard your opinion altogether. Nothing personal, but you've admitted you're not interested in actually discussing or discovering in this thread.

For anyone who is curious about those stats like I was, here are the first four years McCaffrey was a Bronco. Personally, I don't think they're really fair to compare anyway, because McCaffrey was more developed when he first went to the Broncos, had an all-time great throwing him the ball and a HOF TE to go alongside Rod Smith, who is a borderline HOFer himself. Nonetheless, 76Texan already gave you the percentage of offense, so here are the raw numbers:

McCaffrey:

1995 - 39 rec, 477 yds, 12.2 YPC
1996 - 48 rec, 553 yds, 11.5 YPC
1997 - 45 rec, 590 yds, 13.1 YPC
1998 - 64 rec, 1053 yds, 16.5 YPC

Walter:

2006 - 17 rec, 160 yds, 9.4
2007 - 65 rec, 800 yds, 12.3
2008 - 60 rec, 899 yds, 15.0
2009 - 53 rec, 611 yds, 11.5

I don't think I've read anyone saying Walter is as good as McCaffrey was, but rather they had similar roles, which I don't think is outlandish. Now, part of what made McCaffrey great is the fact that he produced for a long time. Within this comparable sample size, Walter holds up well to that comparison, but it ignores what happened from that point forward, which is much more relevant to the current discussion. McCaffrey went on to post seasons of 1018, 1317, and 903 yards, with a season missed due to injury in there as well. Walter's numbers have gone the other way. I think it's fair to say that we've likely seen what we're going to see from Walter. I suppose we could have a Super Bowl year where the offense goes nuts and Walter's stats leap accordingly, but I don't think we're going to see 4000+ receiving yards from Walter in any given four year span.

So given that, I want to see the guy that I think absolutely has the potential to do that put in the #2 WR spot - Lestar Jean. I also think Martin in the slot will help the entire receiving corps in a way that Walter never benefited from during his tenure so far. As I posted before, I don't know what criteria Kubiak is using to judge the #2 WR, but it's very clear that it's not statistical production. Like it or not, to this point it would have been easier to make the team from the position that backed up AJ, since that guy is the one that got the targets. Whatever that criteria is, I hope Star can get it and take over the spot, because he has big time playmaking ability, IMO.

 

[Texan_Bill]

Martin kind of gives me more of a Drew Hill (RIP) vibe. Sudden, creates separation, has good hands and is all business on the field. He should be great in the slot.

Dang Vinny. I had forgot that Drew Hill (RIP) passed away.

 

[76Texan]

No, the problem is that our memory doesn't serve us well in this case. I thought more of Mccaffery than what the numbers show. I guess, same as Matt, when the games don't matter the production seems a lot less. Mccaffery was always making clutch plays to keep his team in contention, a situation Walter has only recently found himself in, & Schaub never has.

Winning changes everything.

Repped for having an open mind.

As Eriadoc said, McCaffrey was quite a player; but let's not sell Walter short.

Watch these highlights:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjyAGArt8u0

We can see a combination of things:
- Some real highlitghts
- Some where he was wide-open due to one thing or another (on some passes we can't see how the route was ran; whether he beat his man or there was poor coverage.)
- Some where the QB laid a perfect pass.

I actually saw Walter made quite a few highlight reel plays as well.
If we're to compile it, there will be enough to show that he didn't trail McCaffrey by much.

Sure, McCaffrey had more TDs, but we really don't know how many of those were the result of the kind of play we talked about with Jean and Walter recently.

And let's not forget that McCaffrey went to the Broncos as a vet over a younger Rod Smith, but Smith leap-frogged him.

There was always a number one receiver to draw more attention in coverage for McCaffrey (they were healthy almost all the time).
On the other hand, AJ was down quite a bit, and Walter certainly did not benefit from that.

Also, the Broncos running game was in high gear in those 4 years (ranked 5, 1, 4, and 2), which should helped open up the passing game.
The running game was not as good the following year, but still very potent, falling out of the top ten only once - at #12.)

McCaffrey had a few more very productive years after the age of 30 (the age which Walter has not reached yet).

In those "future" years, the Broncos #3 receiver, like I said, caught like 4 passes in one year, and 3 passes in a couple other years.

And again, like I said, the Broncos didn't have a back that was as efficient out of the backfield as Foster, so they had to go the main two guys more.

That doesn't mean they were guaranteed to win though, as they went 6-10, 11-5, 8-8 and 9-7 those next 4 future years.

 

[Double Barrel]

I don't think I've read anyone saying Walter is as good as McCaffrey was, but rather they had similar roles, which I don't think is outlandish.

Thank you, saved me some typing. MSR for the overall post.

When Walter is retired or replaced, people will ***** about the next #2 WR because he will not be able to step into the #1 role. But Kubiak's offense is not designed that way, and it's not going to have #1a and #1b on both sides of the field.

 

[Vinny]

I don't think I've read anyone saying Walter is as good as McCaffrey was, but rather they had similar roles, which I don't think is outlandish.

I agree with this. They played similar roles and the production wasn't wildly different. Flip the script and Rod Smith isn't up to the caliber of Andre Johnson and Matt Schaub isn't John Elway either...but they played similar roles.

 

[NBT]

I think KW has had it. A good blocker is only good on 1st & 2nd down. He is more of a liability as a receiver now that he is 31 years old. Ancient in the game of football. He was never that fleet of foot and now he doesn't have the agility needed to make the moves a good WR has to have. It is time to go to the new blood.

 

[Texans_Chick]

Thank you, saved me some typing. MSR for the overall post.

When Walter is retired or replaced, people will ***** about the next #2 WR because he will not be able to step into the #1 role. But Kubiak's offense is not designed that way, and it's not going to have #1a and #1b on both sides of the field.

This.

Let fantasy football types worry about individual WR production. Each of the WRs on the Texans team have their strengths and weaknesses and roles, and with the new guys it is going to be a discovery of what those are on the NFL level.

The Texans offense is just a bunch of targets. Andre Johnson gets extra targeting because he is a more advanced species than we are. But whoever catches the ball consistently and makes plays, will get the ball.

 

[HOU-TEX]

I think KW has had it. A good blocker is only good on 1st & 2nd down. He is more of a liability as a receiver now that he is 31 years old. Ancient in the game of football. He was never that fleet of foot and now he doesn't have the agility needed to make the moves a good WR has to have. It is time to go to the new blood.

Andre Johnson's 31 years old. Just thought I'd point that out

 

[Carr Bombed]

Did Kevin Walter even play last night?

 

[EllisUnit]

Did Kevin Walter even play last night?

haha yeah he was out there. Jean and Martin are beginning to make KW look not so valuable IMO.

 

[Corrosion]

Did Kevin Walter even play last night?

He was the outside reciever on Martin's TD catch .... pulled double coverage while Martin slid underneath uncovered. Nasty route combination had the defenders looking like circus clowns.

Maybe 76 or Dutch can post a gif of the play .....

 

[76Texan]

He was the outside reciever on Martin's TD catch .... pulled double coverage while Martin slid underneath uncovered. Nasty route combination had the defenders looking like circus clowns.

Maybe 76 or Dutch can post a gif of the play .....

Got to go now.

I can't do vid anyway.

Will look at Walter tonight if I can.

 

[BullNation4Life]

Did Kevin Walter even play last night?

Yes. Right after Martin fumbled for the second time....

This is why Walter will be starting over Martin. Kubiak hates, beyond anything, for a running back or WR to put the ball on the ground. Kubiak trust Walter more and should for now. If Martin keeps on doing this, you wont see him on the field no matter how talented he is...

If anything, Jean should be on the outside and Walter in the slot.

 

[Texn4life]

Does he just have the one catch from the first game this preseason?

 

[Carr Bombed]

Yes. Right after Martin fumbled for the second time....

This is why Walter will be starting over Martin. Kubiak hates, beyond anything, for a running back or WR to put the ball on the ground. Kubiak trust Walter more and should for now. If Martin keeps on doing this, you wont see him on the field no matter how talented he is...

If anything, Jean should be on the outside and Walter in the slot.

I highly doubt Kubiak is going to can Martin, just because of his mistakes last night.. He's a rookie and rookies make mistakes. I was upset when it happened, but after sleeping on it I'm glad it happened. It's a great learning experience and a great teaching opportunity for Kubes. It's better to fumble now during the preseason and make the necessary corrections than to go and have a mistake free preseason and put the ball on the ground during the regular season. One of Kubiak's complements of Martin was how after he makes a mistake they tell him what he did wrong and then he fixes it, so I'm eager to see how he responds.

Anyways I already think the phase out of Walter is underway. Martin and Jean sure have getting a lot of burn with the 1s and I don't think it really matters who starts, because I think both will be on the field plenty.

 

[BullNation4Life]

I highly doubt Kubiak is going to can Martin, just because of his mistakes last night.. He's a rookie and rookies make mistakes. I was upset when it happened, but after sleeping on it I'm glad it happened. It's a great learning experience and a great teaching opportunity for Kubes. It's better to fumble now during the preseason and make the necessary corrections than to go and have a mistake free preseason and put the ball on the ground during the regular season. When of Kubiak's complements of Martin was how after he makes a mistake they tell him what he did wrong and then he fixes it, so I'm eager to see how he responds.

Anyways I already think the phase out of Walter is underway. Martin and Jean sure have getting a lot of burn with the 1s and I don't think it really matters who starts, because I think both will be on the field plenty.

Not saying Kubiak will can Martin but if Martin has a problem holding onto the ball, Kubiak will not put him on the field. One of the biggest things for Kubes with his players is trust, he always talked about trusting his players to do what they needed to protect the football.

Remember the runningback a few years ago, think it was Chris Taylor, an how he was suppose to be this next great back in Kubiak system. Everybody wanted to know why he was playing Dayne over Taylor and the main reason was Taylor kept putting the ball on the ground and Kubiak didn't trust him.

Martin better than Walter, clearly, but I think Kubiak will trust Walter more when they play for real, we will see soon enough...

 

[Carr Bombed]

Not saying Kubiak will can Martin but if Martin has a problem holding onto the ball, Kubiak will not put him on the field. One of the biggest things for Kubes with his players is trust, he always talked about trusting his players to do what they needed to protect the football.

Remember the runningback a few years ago, think it was Chris Taylor, an how he was suppose to be this next great back in Kubiak system. Everybody wanted to know why he was playing Dayne over Taylor and the main reason was Taylor kept putting the ball on the ground and Kubiak didn't trust him.

Martin better than Walter, clearly, but I think Kubiak will trust Walter more when they play for real, we will see soon enough...

Taylor only fumbled once during his time here and it was recovered by the Texans. I think he got hurt, but that was a long time ago... can't remember.

But yeah.. if this becomes a habit Martin will work his way into Kubiak's dog house, but he's not there yet. Kubiak has already proven with Jones that if you have talent he'll give you multiple chances to figure things out.

 

[eriadoc]

I've stated my position on the whole Walter thing, so take it FWIW. But go back and watch Walter on the very first offensive play of the game vs. the Saints and ask yourself if they're going to ask Jean or Martin to do that.

 

[Rey]

I've stated my position on the whole Walter thing, so take it FWIW. But go back and watch Walter on the very first offensive play of the game vs. the Saints and ask yourself if they're going to ask Jean or Martin to do that.

I don't have the game. What did he do?

 

[eriadoc]

I don't have the game. What did he do?

I don't have the game either, but I remember seeing it real time. He just did his typical motion to the right side of the line and then laid a devastating cut block at the snap.

 

[Texn4life]

I don't have the game either, but I remember seeing it real time. He just did his typical motion to the right side of the line and then laid a devastating cut block at the snap.

We use him a lot to do that off of play action. Bryant Johnson did it some too while Andre was out last year. I'm completely fine with KW being in the role he is now. He is not the number 2 receiver as far as receiving options go. I look for both Jean and Martin to get more looks in the passing game this year. As long as that's the case then we'll be fine. He can still play a big role for us, and we know he has the ability to make plays. Gary said today that he's going to rotate the 4 receivers regularly so its going to be important for all of them to come up big for us at certain points. It might be a different guy every game, but when their number is called they need to step up.

 

[eriadoc]

We use him a lot to do that off of play action.

Yep. Frankly, I don't want them using Jean or Martin to do that, which means they need a WR on the team who can do it, and he has to be out on the field often enough that it's not a dead giveaway what they're about to do.

 

[Rey]

I don't have the game either, but I remember seeing it real time. He just did his typical motion to the right side of the line and then laid a devastating cut block at the snap.

I figured that's what you were talking about but didn't want to speculate as I hadn't seen the play.

But if I'm understanding you right, the team did in fact ask Martin to do the same thing (motion to a wing position or to the te's hip pocket and cut the backside Olb or de). I specifically remember him doing that later in the game.

Was it as devastating a block as Walters? Probably not, but it was effective.

The wr I don't think they're going to ask to do that is Andre.

 

[steelbtexan]

I appreciate Walters' contributions.

However Jean should get more PT.

How many plays did Walter make last yr ? Excluding Cincy, a play which will forever live in my memory.