keep kubiak

[Double Barrel]

That's certainly a part of it. But Kubiak is there when the defense is installed. Through the OTCs, mini camps, and training camp. And he can't see that what's coached won't work? He watches film of the horrendous defensive performances, and has no input or advice on how to correct these mistakes that occur, game after game?

I've said this for 3 seasons now, and I guess I have to say it again. Gary Kubiak is not the Houston Texans head coach of the offense. He's the Houston Texans head coach. He's not made of teflon. Whatever happens on the field is a direct reflection of his ability to coach a NFL team. And after 5 years, Gary Kubiak has proven to be not good enough. It's as simple as that.

QFT Must spread rep yada yada yada...

I know there are a lot of people here, who know more about football than I do. But some of these arguments don't make sense.

#1. If you don't make the play-offs, you're a bad team? The Patriots went 12-4 one year, & didn't make the play-offs. That's not the norm, I understand that, but good teams miss out on the play-offs all the time. Last year's Steelers, won the Super Bowl the year before, they are basically the same team they are now.... but they missed the play-offs in 2009. Same coach, same team.

#2. I look at those records, the Phillips with the Cowboys, Childress with the Vikings, & to me it looks like Kubiak has done a heck of a coaching job, considering the teams those guys had, and the guys we had.

#3. The biggest difference between the Cowboys/Vikings & the Texans, is that their play has got progressively worse, ours has got better. The last 4 games have actually been the better from a football standpoint than the first 4, even though we won 3 of the first 4, and lost all of the last 4, we have been playing better lately.

& I'm not making crap up, or saying things to be controversial, or to get a rise out of certain posters. That's my honest opinion.

If you don't agree... fine. If you think ill of me... fine. If you think I'm off my rocker... whatever.

1. The Patriots were 11-5 when they missed the playoffs in 2008. A very rare occurrence in the NFL. I'm not sure where your examples apply to the Texans, though, as you are talking about established teams with winning traditions that have consistently made the playoffs to the hapless one-winning-season-in-franchise-history Texans. And you're talking about arguments that don't make sense???

2. The difference is that these coaches were more successful than Kubiak but were ultimately held accountable for recent failure. Gary has been mediocre - AT HIS BEST - and there appears to be no accountability in his future from what we can tell. Maybe the owner is keeping his cards close to to his chest, but the case can also be made that his M.O. is to give mediocre results the so-called "benefit of the doubt" by granting more and more chances. Differences in owners that demand and expect success versus one that seems to value other traits not based so much on success.

3. The Texans are on their annual four game losing streak, from a 4-2 record to a 4-6 record, and you think that they are getting better? See, you must quantify results by different standards than most other folks, and perhaps your mentality is akin to that of Bob McNair. As long as the kids play hard then success is subjective, while the rest of us have one standard to apply: scoreboard.

I don't think you're off your rocker, but I do think that you should be reported for bong abuse.

 

[thunderkyss]

My main thing is I look at teams that change coaches every 2-3 years and the same names come up always, Detroit, Buffalo, Washington, St Louis, KC, SF - thus I do believe stability has its merits. That said, 5 years of doign things "his way" is enough and something needs to change that's a certainty

I'll agree with this.

If Kubiak has to go, let's make sure we get the right guy next year.

 

[Lucky]

My main thing is I look at teams that change coaches every 2-3 years and the same names come up always, Detroit, Buffalo, Washington, St Louis, KC, SF - thus I do believe stability has its merits.

These teams would be more stable, had they better results. With many of these teams (Lions, Skins, Niners) the problems are/were at the top of the organizational chart. Matt Millen could hire any coach, but would still be saddled with Matt Millen the GM.

The Texans must have a "football guy" at the top. Whether that guy is the head coach as well, is up for debate. That he would keep Kubiak around just seems silly to me.

 

[Surreal McCoy]

These teams would be more stable, had they better results.

Chicken or egg argument. And the Lions have been cellar dwellers for longer than Matt Millen has been alive, much less as their GM.

The Texans must have a "football guy" at the top. Whether that guy is the head coach as well, is up for debate. That he would keep Kubiak around just seems silly to me.

Smith was meant to be that guy. Because he hasn't performed well doesn't mean he was without proper credentials.

 

[thunderkyss]

1....as you are talking about established teams with winning traditions that have consistently made the playoffs to the hapless one-winning-season-in-franchise-history Texans. And you're talking about arguments that don't make sense???

Would you have been happy if the Texans made the play-offs last season? That very well could have happened, & the team/Kubiak, wouldn't have done one thing different. What if the Ravens lost that week 12 OT game against the Steelers last year.... or the Colts wanted to win 16 games last year... or that Malaluga & Odom were able to play week 17 vs the Jets.

I don't know where you stand on it, but if the Texans would have made the play-offs because of any of those reasons, many posters on this board would be giving Kubiak credit for getting this team to the play-offs.

2. The difference is that these coaches were more successful than Kubiak but were ultimately held accountable for recent failure.

Both coaches were fired after being spanked by the Packers. 45-7 for the Cowboys, & 31-3 for the Vikings. Clear "proof" that those teams had given up on their coaches. Since that Cowboy firing, the Texans have lost:
29-23 to the Chargers
31-34 to the Jaguars &
30-27 to the Jets

On some goofy, never seen before crap..... The team is playing, & playing hard. We were in control of the Chargers game. We had the Jags game going to OT, with the momentum, & the Jets game was basically won.

Yes, everything that happens on the field is a reflection of Kubiak, but nothing (I don't believe) that happened in the last 4 weeks says, "Fire Kubiak right now."

He's got 6 games to pull a rabbit out of his arse...... let's see what happens.

3. The Texans are on their annual four game losing streak, from a 4-2 record to a 4-6 record, and you think that they are getting better?

If you don't think their play on the field has been better the last 4 weeks, I don't know what to tell you. Their record definitely hasn't gotten better, but I never said that it did.

 

[Lucky]

Smith was meant to be that guy.

Smith is a Friend of Kubiak. A lackey. He's a novice GM and not at all what I'm referring to when I say "football guy".

 

[wildroot]

LOL, you can't be serious. If McNair knew then what he knows now he'd be a pretty magical guy. Kubiak would be a moot point because he wouldn't have hired him in the first place. He'd a saw how terrible Capers/Casserly would be and any other candidate because "he knew then what he knows now" and would have selected a HC and GM that were great and we'd be perennial super bowl champions.

If what you mean is that McNair isn't happy we're a ".500 ballclub" then yes, you're absolutely correct.

No, I wasn't serious. I just think if McNair knew then what he knows now someone else would have gotten the job. Of course now he's stuck trying to be positive about the whole fiasco and say all the right things.

 

[Carr Bombed]

Yup. Good thing Cowher mentioned drafting Foster otherwise Smith and Kubiak probably would never have known, eh? Especially since they're both well known for using high draft picks on RBs, just like Denver. Thank God for small miracles!

Or good thing Arian Foster chose to come here or Kubiak and Smith would've never known what Foster would've became.

Foster chose us, because he felt he could beat out every back on our team (and this was after Slaton's stellar rookie season)....and he was right.


It's sad he didn't get his chance until our doors were blown off and the season was over. And I don't care about what stats he put up in his debut. He was the best back on the team the minute he started getting significant touches. He was the only back who could/can do crap in the red zone...which was the biggest weakness all last season. This is the reason why I'm curious to see who can be our "late season when everything has gone to **** and it's too late to salvage the season" break out player on defense this season.

Honestly Ryan Moats is not even a capable NFL RB on a good NFL team with depth and Chris Brown was washed up damaged goods who was living off of one decent year he had like 6 years before. It was obvious Steve Slaton was not the same back (Hell I made a thread about it during the preseason last year), yet Kubiak just continued to allow him to fumble our season away and continued to act like the other bums were far more superior to a UDFA rookie. (and please don't bring up pass protection, because Moats and Slaton were horrible also....and it's not like C. Brown was elite).

LOL sorry, but I don't see how anybody in their right mind can defend this coach as far as the running game goes. His decisions with regards to the running game have been down right horrible (Ahman Green anyone) and he just happened to luck into stumbling upon a beast known as Arian Foster.

What has Kubiak really accomplished here??? (Can somebody please list all of Kubiak's accomplishments that make him deserving of being our head coach next season)

In 5 years he's managed to build a roster that excels at playing patty cake football....nothing else. No divisional titles, no playoff seasons, nothing that really has any substance, just like his football team. (LMAO at celebrating 9-7...oh that still kills me)

Oh they can lead the league in passing/total offense for consecutive years...but at the same time be one of the worst red zone teams in the league while doing it. Where's the substance...there is none.

We can finally have a elite RB who leads the league in yards and TDs, but where is that translating into wins? Kubiak sometimes even pulls Foster our of the game when we're in the red zone or in crucial situations....Where's the substance, there is none.

And last but certainly not least.....the freaking defense. Statistically (there's that word again) they were one of the best defenses in the league over the last 13 games.. That means little now though, because Kubiak's "hand picked guy" and the man he wanted from day one of his tenure here is some how plausibly worse than his predecessor, who many felt was one of the worst D coordinators they've ever seen at the NFL level. (Yes Richard Smith was that bad). How can Kubiak make those type of mistakes?


I'm tired of hearing about stats and how GREAT Kubiak's offense is.......because it's not, it's overhyped. Kubiak is a soft coach, who coaches players to be soft, and he builds soft football teams. I'm done with it. The thing that'll really stick in my head about this season is the NY Jets Halftime Stats graphic they put up before the start of the 3rd quarter. Houston led in every freaking category, except the score on the scoreboard. That's sums up Kubiak's entire head coaching career. In the stats that REALLY matter, the stats that everyone really care about, he's one of the worst in the business. Wins and Losses.....wins and losses in November and wins and losses within the division. Those are the stats that separate the good contending teams from the perennial "up and comers".

 

[thunderkyss]

Oh they can lead the league in passing/total offense for consecutive years...but at the same time be one of the worst red zone teams in the league while doing it.

Have we ever seen any numbers on this? I know we were at the bottom of the league in 2008, but 2009 overall didn't seem so bad.

I've never seen the official numbers.

 

[Arky]

Have we ever seen any numbers on this? I know we were at the bottom of the league in 2008, but 2009 overall didn't seem so bad.

I've never seen the official numbers.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-pct

Texans are currently tied for 7th in red zone scoring percentage (60.61%).

In 2009, they finished 13th with 52.46%. (click on "2009" column to line it up).

I'm pretty sure the percentage is percentage of TD's - FG's don't count.

 

[thunderkyss]

Texans are currently tied for 7th in red zone scoring percentage (60.61%).

In 2009, they finished 13th with 52.46%. (click on "2009" column to line it up).

So what is CarrBombed talking about?

Oh they can lead the league in passing/total offense for consecutive years...but at the same time be one of the worst red zone teams in the league while doing it.

 

[Double Barrel]

Would you have been happy if the Texans made the play-offs last season? That very well could have happened, & the team/Kubiak, wouldn't have done one thing different. What if the Ravens lost that week 12 OT game against the Steelers last year.... or the Colts wanted to win 16 games last year... or that Malaluga & Odom were able to play week 17 vs the Jets.

I don't know where you stand on it, but if the Texans would have made the play-offs because of any of those reasons, many posters on this board would be giving Kubiak credit for getting this team to the play-offs.

We can play the 'If Game' all day long. If the Patriots had needed that last game for playoff position, the season would've been another 8-8 result.

Yada yada yada

We can sit here and play patty-cake-scenario-bake to come up with all kinds of circumstances, but the fact remains that head coaches are held to ONE standard in this league, and that standard begins and ends with winning.

I think Kubiak has done a good job in a few areas of the team. But overall, head coaching is not one of those areas.

Both coaches were fired after being spanked by the Packers. 45-7 for the Cowboys, & 31-3 for the Vikings. Clear "proof" that those teams had given up on their coaches. Since that Cowboy firing, the Texans have lost:
29-23 to the Chargers
31-34 to the Jaguars &
30-27 to the Jets

On some goofy, never seen before crap..... The team is playing, & playing hard. We were in control of the Chargers game. We had the Jags game going to OT, with the momentum, & the Jets game was basically won.

Yes, everything that happens on the field is a reflection of Kubiak, but nothing (I don't believe) that happened in the last 4 weeks says, "Fire Kubiak right now."

He's got 6 games to pull a rabbit out of his arse...... let's see what happens.

My intention was not to compare point-for-point resumes of each coach, but rather the big picture idea of ownership holding head coaches accountable for the results that represent their body of work.

The whole "team quit" angle is not something I tend to elaborate on because it is based upon speculation and perception. Without behind the scenes access to the inner workings of a franchise and deeper insight into player mentalities, it's really just opinion.

But, if I were to accept your premise at face value for the sake of this conversation, and let's say that the Texans have not quit on their head coach, then effort is obviously not the issue here. It then comes down to preparation, game planning, schemes, play calling, and roster development. And in each case, the line of responsibility can be traced directly back to the coaching staff, which - as a whole - is representative of the guy in charge, Kubiak.

So the kids don't quit, they are just the wrong kids given the wrong set of instructions.

I do agree with you, though, in that they have six games. It would be a modern day NFL miracle story for the Texans to run the table against the rest of the schedule, but hey, I'll be there watching (and hoping), so let's wait and see what happens.

If you don't think their play on the field has been better the last 4 weeks, I don't know what to tell you. Their record definitely hasn't gotten better, but I never said that it did.

In some regards I can see the case being made, but the consistently slow starts and inability to close games are deal breakers. They have not improved in any of those key areas.

 

[Lucky]

But, if I were to accept your premise at face value for the sake of this conversation, and let's say that the Texans have not quit on their head coach, then effort is obviously not the issue here. It then comes down to preparation, game planning, schemes, play calling, and roster development. And in each case, the line of responsibility can be traced directly back to the coaching staff, which - as a whole - is representative of the guy in charge, Kubiak.

I'm convinced.

Excellent argument, though I don't think the Keep Kubiak Club can be swayed. Whatever increment improvements we saw in the past have ceased. Just when it seemed that the Texans had learned to win the close games (Skins, Chiefs), they revert back to their finding-a-way-to-lose manner. It's not working and only the rationailzations have changed. "Lose Kubiak and there goes the elite offense." As if another coach couldn't put together a productive offense with Andre, Arian, and Matt. And the latest, "You can't make a change because of the lockout". When in the same breath, they admit that the defensive staff and scheme must be re-vamped. There's no winning with these guys.

Nice effort, though.

 

[JB]

I'm convinced.

Excellent argument, though I don't think the Keep Kubiak Club can be swayed. Whatever increment improvements we saw in the past have ceased. Just when it seemed that the Texans had learned to win the close games (Skins, Chiefs), they revert back to their finding-a-way-to-lose manner. It's not working and only the rationailzations have changed. "Lose Kubiak and there goes the elite offense." As if another coach couldn't put together a productive offense with Andre, Arian, and Matt. And the latest, "You can't make a change because of the lockout". When in the same breath, they admit that the defensive staff and scheme must be re-vamped. There's no winning with these guys.

Nice effort, though.

Some of us are saying lets see what happens in these last 6 games. If the Texans win out, or maybe go 5-1, perhaps just revamping the defensive staff would be enough to appease for a bit.

I don't see either happening. I think they will continue to struggle. If they lose this game, I think McNair is going to be so mad that wheels are put in motion.

I know I will be that mad.

 

[wagonhed]

Some of us are saying lets see what happens in these last 6 games. If the Texans win out, or maybe go 5-1, perhaps just revamping the defensive staff would be enough to appease for a bit.

I don't see either happening. I think they will continue to struggle. If they lose this game, I think McNair is going to be so mad that wheels are put in motion.

I know I will be that mad.

Well we can always say "let's just see what happens". You're always going to have to do that anyway. Doesn't mean you can't talk about things until after they have happened. If we just waited to see, there would be no talk about the draft until draft day, no talk about the season until week 1, and no talk about playoffs until January. Wouldn't make for a very interesting message board.

 

[Carr Bombed]

So what is CarrBombed talking about?

They were tops in the NFL at getting in the redzone and 13th in red zone scoring... They year before that even worse...the redzone production doesn't match their visits. This year has been better (mainly because of Foster), we just aren't getting down there as consistent as we did last season.

 

[steelbtexan]

Some of us are saying lets see what happens in these last 6 games. If the Texans win out, or maybe go 5-1, perhaps just revamping the defensive staff would be enough to appease for a bit.

I don't see either happening. I think they will continue to struggle. If they lose this game, I think McNair is going to be so mad that wheels are put in motion.

I know I will be that mad.

I'm all for letting the season play out.

But no playoffs = Smithiak gone, lockout or no. Uncle BoB wont see it this way.

Let me tell you there's no way Uncle BoB could've been as mad as I was after the Tack MNF game last yr. Funny how a yr changes ones perceptions. This yr I wont even care if they lose to the Tacks while starting their 3rd string QB. I will just LOL. The Texans organization would be in better shape if they got blown out Sunday and just put the Smithiak regime out of its misery. IMHO

But I will never root for the Texans to lose. It's just not in my DNA.

 

[houstonhurricane]

Some of us are saying lets see what happens in these last 6 games. If the Texans win out, or maybe go 5-1, perhaps just revamping the defensive staff would be enough to appease for a bit.

I don't see either happening. I think they will continue to struggle. If they lose this game, I think McNair is going to be so mad that wheels are put in motion.

I know I will be that mad.

If Kubiak loses this Sunday (I actually think we roll the Titans) my gues is that he is essentialy done with the Texans. We would be 4-7 and heading to Philly for a 4-8 record. At that point, we are almost assured of a 7-9 or worse record. Six wins only and I would almost guarantee a change.

At 8-8 I think McNair may keep him, but a losing record is going to be tough to support.

 

[Hervoyel]

"keep kubiak"

I think "keep kubiak from wasting another season" sounds better.

Seriously though, I'm resigned to the fact that he's not going anywhere. We'll finish 8-8 and hopefully get a new defensive coordinator and staff if we're lucky.

 

[newtexan]

The players must take some responsibility here, Kubiak has done enough to win games, million -dollar players must bail coaches out from time to time, The Texans players have not done enough

 

[TexCanada]

The players must take some responsibility here, Kubiak has done enough to win games, million -dollar players must bail coaches out from time to time, The Texans players have not done enough

We know, nobody has done enough. The question is how do we fix it? Are you suggesting we get rid of all the players?

 

[CretorFrigg]

We know, nobody has done enough. The question is how do we fix it? Are you suggesting we get rid of all the players?

I think we should start Malcom Sheppard.

By the way, please change your avatar.

 

[TheMatrix31]

We know, nobody has done enough. The question is how do we fix it? Are you suggesting we get rid of all the players?

Yeah, it sucks that Kubiak (or any coach who gets fired) ends up being the scapegoat just because we can't clear house with the players.

I just believe we're snakebit either way. We're so screwed. This stuff that has happened to us over the last 9 years, it just doesn't happen. It defies all logic.

What a mess. What an utter mess.

 

[HJam72]

What if we just found a really good DC and let them completely take over the D? I know Kubiak isn't perfect in all things, even when you take the D completely away from him, but it would sure solve a lot of problems. And, NO, Kubiak should NOT have any say in who is chosen as DC. That's if he even stays.

Actually, that's probably what will happen, because of the whole lock-out thing.

 

[wildroot]

What if we just found a really good DC and let them completely take over the D? I know Kubiak isn't perfect in all things, even when you take the D completely away from him, but it would sure solve a lot of problems. And, NO, Kubiak should NOT have any say in who is chosen as DC. That's if he even stays.

Actually, that's probably what will happen, because of the whole lock-out thing.

What does that say about your HC when he shouldn't have a say in the hiring of a DC? Pretty sad isn't it?

What's the point of even keeping the HC in that case? In a small way the same sort of situation Jim Zorn was in last year with the Redskins, perhaps not as bad but you get my point.

 

[Carr Bombed]

Yeah, it sucks that Kubiak (or any coach who gets fired) ends up being the scapegoat just because we can't clear house with the players.

I just believe we're snakebit either way. We're so screwed. This stuff that has happened to us over the last 9 years, it just doesn't happen. It defies all logic.

What a mess. What an utter mess.

It does happen......to losing franchises. The Saints and Bucs went through it for decades. There's no such thing as "being snake-bit". The problem is we have a loser running our team and then when they end up losing every year, we want to sit here and damn the bad luck....it's that whole definition of insanity thing. Good teams make the necessary moves and they make their own luck.

The Rockets are going through the same thing and people think they're snakebit......but they're not. Their problem is they keep anchoring their franchise to the bum foot of a broke down 7'6 china man and then wonder why their season goes nowhere when he goes down.

Games are not won or lost on one single play......We didn't lose to the Jags on that hail Mary pass and we didn't lose to the Jets on that last play. You give yourself better opportunities to win games through coaching and Kubiak has screwed the pooch big time with some of his coaching decisions (especially clock management). It also doesn't help when he sticks to the same failed scripted plays and doesn't get rolling on offense until after his team is in a hole.

If we fired Gary Kubiak we wouldn't be making him any kind of scapegoat....that's silly. This is a man who only has one winning (non playoff) season in 5 years of coaching. He won't be some sort of martyr when we let him go, he'll just be a nice guy who couldn't cut the mustard and a person who deserved to be fired. This is a results driven league and when you aren't producing any type of results, you get fired.

 

[Carr Bombed]

The players must take some responsibility here, Kubiak has done enough to win games, million -dollar players must bail coaches out from time to time, The Texans players have not done enough

Those are Kubiak's players..... He's the one who keeps putting them into position to fail. You get a new coach and he's going to bring in his own guys, so in the end we'll get a new coach and new players. win, win.

 

[Runner]

I find it interesting that on all the "Team <insert name>" threads, successful coaches are nitpicked to death as unsuitable to lead the Texans. At the same time, the model of mediocrity that is Team Kubiak is defended based on the team finally "getting it" and going on an unprecedented five or six game winning streak. Same song, different year.

Kubiak is rarely the best coach on the field on any given Sunday. Finding an upgrade isn't all that difficult.

 

[ChampionTexan]

They were tops in the NFL at getting in the redzone and 13th in red zone scoring... They year before that even worse...the redzone production doesn't match their visits. This year has been better (mainly because of Foster), we just aren't getting down there as consistent as we did last season.

Actually, this is off target for a couple of reasons.
1. From the same site, the Texans were listed as 6th (not tops) in Red Zone Opportunities, and 9th in Red Zone scoring for last year, so the discrepancy between Red Zone visits and Red Zone scoring last year wasn't nearly as large as the 1st & 13th rankings your post would have us believe.

2. The ranking of 13th from last year and 7th this year is based on percentage of visits that a TD was scored. Therefore, "getting in the redzone" isn't in any way shape or form a part of the stat. A team that had 10 Red Zone visits and 6 TD's would have the exact same ranking as a team with 50 visits and 30 TD's.

So yeah, we've improved, and yeah, we're not where anyone wants us to be, but by any measure, we were in the top half of the NFL last year, and the top 25% of the NFL this year when it comes to Red Zone Performance.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

Those are Kubiak's players..... He's the one who keeps putting them into position to fail. You get a new coach and he's going to bring in his own guys, so in the end we'll get a new coach and new players. win, win.

Kubiak from day one has always been a great game planner.

 

[utahmark]

just to put my thoughts on record. I would probably let Kubiak go at this point(if it was my choice). I probably won't be as upset if they keep him as most of you guys but I do think a change is probably best at this point.

 

[ATXtexanfan]

just to put my thoughts on record. I would probably let Kubiak go at this point(if it was my choice). I probably won't be as upset if they keep him as most of you guys but I do think a change is probably best at this point.

same here bro. kubiak's supporters are thinning out.