Keenum, is this another case of Chris Myers and KJax?

[DocBar]

Definitely won't know anything more about his potential if he's on the bench.



Kinda like Stafford, Ryan, Bradford, Newton, Flacco, Rivers.... everybody but Brady, Peyton, & obviously Luck? It's a team game, whether Case is starting or not.



See... I think "people" want Fitzpatrick to start because he is not a threat to our "future" QB. Whether we're winning or not, we're going to continue to look for a "future" QB.

If Case is winning, not so much. & regardless how well Case plays, that' just not good enough. If he sucks, fine, we'll toss him & move on. But if we're 10-6 and 1 & done in the play offs... we're going to pass on a first round QB. & some people are just not good with that.

It's like some people think we'd be better off as a franchise if we miss the play offs in 2014 & draft a QB than if Case Keenum (or Tj Yates for that matter) gets us to the AFC Championship game.

If CK is good enough to win the starting job, he won't be on the bench. If he isn't good enough to win it outright, why play him?

Of the QB's you mentioned, I see all of them but Flacco and Bradford as Franchise QB's. They've shown they can get the job done.

If the Texans are 10-6 and 1 and done in the playoffs, I get the impression from BO'B that, regardless of who's playing QB, the QB position will be evaluated just like all the other positions and if a franchise QB is available when the Texans drafted, that QB would be picked. Maybe the team wouldn't trade up significantly to get him, though.

I understand your line of thought, but I'm going to give this coaching staff the benefit of the doubt for now. I think BO'B is sincere in his statements about accountability and competition. My

 

[76Texan]

I know what I did say.
I wanted Wilson and Keenum (because of the position we were in.)

I'm good with JFF at 2.1 (a fair risk.)

I will be a hundred percent behind Mariota.

I will also be ecstatic with the guy that will follow Hogan at Stanford.

Whether the Texans will be in position to get them is a different matter.

I asked Mr Tex about solution, and his answer is very vague.
He wants a killer at QB, but he doesn't know who that is.
(Sorry, I don't mean to be critical. )

I had offered a solution (and I was not the only one); that is to trade away as many picks as you can for future spots.

You want a better shot at a real franchise QB, don't you?

 

[thunderkyss]

If CK is good enough to win the starting job, he won't be on the bench. If he isn't good enough to win it outright, why play him?

Agreed. If he or Tj does not beat out Fitzpatrick, they should both be gone & we should go with Fitz & Savage as the only two QBs on the roster. We can pick up Brett Smith to run the scout team.

Of the QB's you mentioned, I see all of them but Flacco and Bradford as Franchise QB's. They've shown they can get the job done.

All the QBs I mentioned needed (needs) help. Ryan, Newton, Rivers... we've all seen them look great on teams with good running games & defenses, and we've seen them look lacking on teams without good running games/defense.

If the Texans are 10-6 and 1 and done in the playoffs, I get the impression from BO'B that, regardless of who's playing QB, the QB position will be evaluated just like all the other positions and if a franchise QB is available when the Texans drafted, that QB would be picked. Maybe the team wouldn't trade up significantly to get him, though.

I get that same feeling. I hope so. But does he have the clout in the locker room to pull it off? I don't think Del Rio ever recovered from his QB shuffle when Garrard played well enough to get them to the play offs & he stuck Leftwhich back in the game, or Wade benching Flutie, or to a greater extent, Chucky letting Trent Dilfer go.

I understand your line of thought, but I'm going to give this coaching staff the benefit of the doubt for now. I think BO'B is sincere in his statements about accountability and competition. My

Your line of thought is no different than mine. May the best QB win.

However, I think they signed Fitzpatrick & not Vick to make it easier for Case/Yates to win the job.

 

[76Texan]

BTW, I also slotted Glennon in the third round.
For me, I stated that he looks a bit like Matt Schaub, but more mobile.
His footwork is better.
For me, this guy has better potential than Guys drafted ahead of him like Geno Smith or Emanuel.
He's just not sexy and kinda out of vogue at the time because the other guys can do more with their feet

 

[DocBar]

Agreed. If he or Tj does not beat out Fitzpatrick, they should both be gone & we should go with Fitz & Savage as the only two QBs on the roster. We can pick up Brett Smith to run the scout team.



All the QBs I mentioned needed (needs) help. Ryan, Newton, Rivers... we've all seen them look great on teams with good running games & defenses, and we've seen them look lacking on teams without good running games/defense.




I get that same feeling. I hope so. But does he have the clout in the locker room to pull it off? I don't think Del Rio ever recovered from his QB shuffle when Garrard played well enough to get them to the play offs & he stuck Leftwhich back in the game, or Wade benching Flutie, or to a greater extent, Chucky letting Trent Dilfer go.



Your line of thought is no different than mine. May the best QB win.

However, I think they signed Fitzpatrick & not Vick to make it easier for Case/Yates to win the job.

Good points. I'll have to think on some of them a bit. I'm not totally sold on the Ryan comment about needing help. Last season he had no chance. That OL was gawd-awful and the defense gave up a ton of points. The Falcons have a much easier road to the playoffs than the Texans. I see last season as an anomaly for them and they aren't starting from scratch with a new coaching staff.

As far as drafting a QB under the earlier scenario, that's not the apples to apples. That would apply more to Kubiak losing the locker room last season, waffling between Keenum and Schaub. Hell, who's to say players weren't supporting TJ more than the other two?

If BO'B drafts a QB and applies the same competition rules that apply to every other position, how can he lose the locker room? He can only lose the locker room by giving in to pressure to play the #1 draft pick. IMO, he has the stones to play the guy he thinks gives them the best chance to win. Granted, I'm giving a whole lot on the benefit of the doubt.

 

[DocBar]

BTW, I also slotted Glennon in the third round.
For me, I stated that he looks a bit like Matt Schaub, but more mobile.
His footwork is better.
For me, this guy has better potential than Guys drafted ahead of him like Geno Smith or Emanuel.
He's just not sexy and kinda out of vogue at the time because the other guys can do more with their feet

I agree. I have very little faith in Smith or Emanuel being above average QB's. I liked Glennon's play last season.

 

[thunderkyss]

I'll have to think on some of them a bit. I'm not totally sold on the Ryan comment about needing help. Last season he had no chance. That OL was gawd-awful and the defense gave up a ton of points.

That's pretty much my point. No run game/defense... he doesn't look much better than Case Keenum. Give him a run game/defense, he could win it all (I'm not saying Case can, we haven't seen him with a good run game/defense).

The Falcons have a much easier road to the playoffs than the Texans. I see last season as an anomaly for them and they aren't starting from scratch with a new coaching staff.

Uh... They've got to compete against the Saints & an up & coming Carolina just to get to the dance. Then they have to go through two of GreenBay, Seattle, San Francisco, maybe Chicago, Arizona, Philly.

All we've got to do is beat Luck out for the Division & avoid New England in the play offs.

Sometimes a new coach jump starts a team. They're going on year seven under Mike Smith & have two play off wins to show for it... sooner or later, guys stop buying in to what the HC is selling. I think that's where we were last season.

If BO'B drafts a QB and applies the same competition rules that apply to every other position, how can he lose the locker room? He can only lose the locker room by giving in to pressure to play the #1 draft pick. IMO, he has the stones to play the guy he thinks gives them the best chance to win. Granted, I'm giving a whole lot on the benefit of the doubt.

People are funny about their QB.

 

[thunderkyss]

I agree. I have very little faith in Smith or Emanuel being above average QB's. I liked Glennon's play last season.

I didn't watch any of these guys in college, but Ej Manuel looks like the real deal.

 

[DocBar]

That's pretty much my point. No run game/defense... he doesn't look much better than Case Keenum. Give him a run game/defense, he could win it all (I'm not saying Case can, we haven't seen him with a good run game/defense).



Uh... They've got to compete against the Saints & an up & coming Carolina just to get to the dance. Then they have to go through two of GreenBay, Seattle, San Francisco, maybe Chicago, Arizona, Philly.

All we've got to do is beat Luck out for the Division & avoid New England in the play offs.

Sometimes a new coach jump starts a team. They're going on year seven under Mike Smith & have two play off wins to show for it... sooner or later, guys stop buying in to what the HC is selling. I think that's where we were last season.


People are funny about their QB.

HAHAHA!!! Again, good points.

The Falcons only have to out win 2 of the teams you listed to get to the playoffs. They have a team that is closer to 13-3 than 3-13. I'll agree that the Texan's have the talent of a 12-4 team instead of a 4-12 team, but the new coaching staff is the clincher for me. I expect to see the Texan's struggle early in the season and make strides as the season progresses. I expect to see the Falcon's contend for their division championship. I expect to see the Texan's contend for the division championship in 2015.

Having said all of that, my printed out Texan's 2014 schedule has 10 wins highlighted on it. Much to the amusement of my sAint's buddy at work.

My glasses get foggy sometimes.

 

[thunderkyss]

I expect to see the Texan's struggle early in the season and make strides as the season progresses.

I'm not seeing that at all. I think the Texans are going to start the season with one of those hits that makes everyone in the stands say ouch. Jj Watt, Cushing, Nix or Clowney is going to put someone on their ass in a bad way... then they're going to try to one-up each other all year long.

Our average field position is going to be our 47 yard line. Our offense is only going to have to be half as good as it ever was & our defense is going to score 9 points a game.

Having said all of that, my printed out Texan's 2014 schedule has 10 wins highlighted on it. Much to the amusement of my sAint's buddy at work.

Tell him Katrina was nine years ago. It's time to go back home.

 

[DocBar]

I'm not seeing that at all. I think the Texans are going to start the season with one of those hits that makes everyone in the stands say ouch. Jj Watt, Cushing, Nix or Clowney is going to put someone on their ass in a bad way... then they're going to try to one-up each other all year long.

Our average field position is going to be our 47 yard line. Our offense is only going to have to be half as good as it ever was & our defense is going to score 9 points a game.



Tell him Katrina was nine years ago. It's time to go back home.

LOL. He knows. We were both in NO 2 weeks after Katrina. Had to evac for Rita. He currently resides in Sayre, Ok., so yeah...he might have a storm bunker, but not for hurricanes.

 

[sandman]

See... I think "people" want Fitzpatrick to start because he is not a threat to our "future" QB. Whether we're winning or not, we're going to continue to look for a "future" QB.

If Case is winning, not so much. & regardless how well Case plays, that' just not good enough. If he sucks, fine, we'll toss him & move on. But if we're 10-6 and 1 & done in the play offs... we're going to pass on a first round QB. & some people are just not good with that.

If this post were in the political forum, you would be called a Ron-bot. Case would be the GOAT if it weren't for everyone out to get him.

So what if Yates goes 10-6 this year with a 1 & done in the playoffs? What about Savage? Do we still look for a QB in the draft or is it off the board?

 

[thunderkyss]

If this post were in the political forum, you would be called a Ron-bot. Case would be the GOAT if it weren't for everyone out to get him.

So what if Yates goes 10-6 this year with a 1 & done in the playoffs? What about Savage? Do we still look for a QB in the draft or is it off the board?

I'm good with all of the above. Doesn't matter to me who starts.

I'll flat out tell you Case doesn't deserve squat. He got a shot last year & he didn't show me that he belongs. But it appears he's getting another shot regardless.

I believe the same "fear factor" holds true with Tj. If we go 10-6 with Yates as our starter, I think many here will be upset because we'll most likely pass on a first round QB.

Then again, I think we should pass on a first round QB even if we go 6-10, depending on who's there.

 

[sandman]

I'm good with all of the above. Doesn't matter to me who starts.

I'll flat out tell you Case doesn't deserve squat. He got a shot last year & he didn't show me that he belongs. But it appears he's getting another shot regardless.

I believe the same "fear factor" holds true with Tj. If we go 10-6 with Yates as our starter, I think many here will be upset because we'll most likely pass on a first round QB.

Then again, I think we should pass on a first round QB even if we go 6-10, depending on who's there.

Fair enough. Appreciate the perspective. I personally think that with fans in general and on this board specifically, CK is going to be a distraction. I have a feeling that BO'B could give a squat what us fans think.

 

[corytx8]

Fair enough. Appreciate the perspective. I personally think that with fans in general and on this board specifically, CK is going to be a distraction. I have a feeling that BO'B could give a squat what us fans think.

And OB not giving a squat what fans think is the way it should be!

 

[Mr teX]

So why even start him? He's a 31 year old back up. Unless we're expecting him to be the next Rich Gannon (which wouldn't be bad thing). But if we know he's not going to be anything special, I don't get why we want to put him out there. He is what he is & frankly that is not good enough. We know it's not good enough.

Fitzpatrick may not be a long term solution...but his numbers suggest that he's not that bad...it's when he asked to do too much is when he gets in trouble. & when you consider the trainwrecks franchises he played for....i could easily see him matching his 2010 campaign.

Well, like you said, the 31 year old is what he is. A back up. I like Tj, but the last game I saw him really play, he was tossing the ball up for Ed Reed to go get it. Last year's game against St. Louis, pretty much ended the same way. If OB can teach him to make better decisions, it would make more sense to me to start Tj.

Keenum, the only problem I've got with him is not knowing the situation & knowing when he can/should extend a play & when he can/should throw it away, or take a sack. I don't recall ever thinking, "Why did he throw that there?"

& we definitely won't know if Fitzpatrick is the starter. Personally, I don't care if it's Tj or Case.

I too don't care if its Fitz, TJ, Case, Savage..... or even VY...so long as whomever it is gives us the best chance to win in 2014. Where we're not agreeing is a few in here are indirectly saying that Keenum is our best option to start..When in reality experience, measureables and what these guys have accomplished as starters.....suggest otherwise.

Not a rebuild.

Ok, a "retooling" if that sounds better. Regardless, there's a new offense to learn. And seeing as Keenum's only known Kubiak's qb friendly offense, there is a learning curve he as a young player is gonna have to overcome which will set his progression as a viable NFL qb back.

Definitely won't know anything more about his potential if he's on the bench.

fair enough...but if he's on the bench, chances are it wasn't b/c BoB had a bias towards him ...it was b/c the other guy(s) beat him out & showed more.

Kinda like Stafford, Ryan, Bradford, Newton, Flacco, Rivers.... everybody but Brady, Peyton, & obviously Luck? It's a team game, whether Case is starting or not.

Lol, all these guys were 1st rounders with better physical tools than Keenum. All of them also won at least 2 games on the bad teams they were drafted to. All of that, (but mostly the 1st 2 reasons) are why those guys got the benefit of the doubt.

See... I think "people" want Fitzpatrick to start because he is not a threat to our "future" QB. Whether we're winning or not, we're going to continue to look for a "future" QB.

You simply can't know that at this point. For all we know, BoB might think the future is already here in Savage & he just wants to buy time to get a solid group of core players around him to start him. Keenum even playing mediocore has the potential to make that a difficult transition as fans would still be holding onto the "fix this around him" mentality & maybe even a few team members might cause a stir. Either way, every coach wants to go down with "their" guy and the reality of it is Keenum is a holdover from the previous regime as is TJ.

If Case is winning, not so much. & regardless how well Case plays, that' just not good enough. If he sucks, fine, we'll toss him & move on. But if we're 10-6 and 1 & done in the play offs... we're going to pass on a first round QB. & some people are just not good with that.

Would you be good with that? I certainly wouldn't be. I mean fine, if 10-6 and 1 and done in the playoffs is all were looking for, we could've kept Schaub around here for that....


It's like some people think we'd be better off as a franchise if we miss the play offs in 2014 & draft a QB than if Case Keenum (or Tj Yates for that matter) gets us to the AFC Championship game.

Because the qb position is so important, we very well could be better off. I'm sure folks in here would gladly trade 1 AFC championship game appearance in 2014 for a franchise qb for the next 10 years...a guy who has the potential to take us to multiple AFC championship games and beyond.

 

[Texans_Chick]

This is what I will say.

From my observations of OTAs etc so far, Case Keenum is getting more than a fair shot for someone who was once a UDFA and the previous coach's pet project.

O'Brien told me that they are trying to equalize reps right now until they get to the point they need to increase the reps for the person who needs to prepare to start.

That the competition is wide open. I'm unsure how wide open it really is in terms of talent/ability, but what I can tell is rep wise, Case Keenum is getting a ton of work. He is getting a very fair shot with the work he is getting.

It is in the coach's best interest to put the guy on the field who he thinks is best for the team. So lots of tire kicking is going on.

What happened in the past, or college or whatever, that is just a waste of typing.

New system. New requirements of what you need for quarterback. Lots of demands on the quarterback's ability to change plays.

If I were guessing right this second, I don't think CK will be the future of this offense because I don't think the pocket nature of the offense and the types of throws demanded is best suited for him, but he is getting a chance to prove himself.

 

[maddogmrb]

This is what I will say.

From my observations of OTAs etc so far, Case Keenum is getting more than a fair shot for someone who was once a UDFA and the previous coach's pet project.

O'Brien told me that they are trying to equalize reps right now until they get to the point they need to increase the reps for the person who needs to prepare to start.

That the competition is wide open. I'm unsure how wide open it really is in terms of talent/ability, but what I can tell is rep wise, Case Keenum is getting a ton of work. He is getting a very fair shot with the work he is getting.

It is in the coach's best interest to put the guy on the field who he thinks is best for the team. So lots of tire kicking is going on.

What happened in the past, or college or whatever, that is just a waste of typing.

New system. New requirements of what you need for quarterback. Lots of demands on the quarterback's ability to change plays.

If I were guessing right this second, I don't think CK will be the future of this offense because I don't think the pocket nature of the offense and the types of throws demanded is best suited for him, but he is getting a chance to prove himself.

That's all he can ask for ... I hope he makes it here ... if not, I believe he will make it somewhere else.

 

[DocBar]

This is what I will say.

From my observations of OTAs etc so far, Case Keenum is getting more than a fair shot for someone who was once a UDFA and the previous coach's pet project.

O'Brien told me that they are trying to equalize reps right now until they get to the point they need to increase the reps for the person who needs to prepare to start.

That the competition is wide open. I'm unsure how wide open it really is in terms of talent/ability, but what I can tell is rep wise, Case Keenum is getting a ton of work. He is getting a very fair shot with the work he is getting.

It is in the coach's best interest to put the guy on the field who he thinks is best for the team. So lots of tire kicking is going on.

What happened in the past, or college or whatever, that is just a waste of typing.

New system. New requirements of what you need for quarterback. Lots of demands on the quarterback's ability to change plays.

If I were guessing right this second, I don't think CK will be the future of this offense because I don't think the pocket nature of the offense and the types of throws demanded is best suited for him, but he is getting a chance to prove himself.

Good post, TC. Thanks!

I don't care who starts the season at QB. I'm pulling for the coaching staff to make the right decision on who starts, rather than pulling for a particular player.

 

[Mr teX]

This is what I will say.

From my observations of OTAs etc so far, Case Keenum is getting more than a fair shot for someone who was once a UDFA and the previous coach's pet project.

O'Brien told me that they are trying to equalize reps right now until they get to the point they need to increase the reps for the person who needs to prepare to start.

That the competition is wide open. I'm unsure how wide open it really is in terms of talent/ability, but what I can tell is rep wise, Case Keenum is getting a ton of work. He is getting a very fair shot with the work he is getting.

It is in the coach's best interest to put the guy on the field who he thinks is best for the team. So lots of tire kicking is going on.

What happened in the past, or college or whatever, that is just a waste of typing.

New system. New requirements of what you need for quarterback. Lots of demands on the quarterback's ability to change plays.

If I were guessing right this second, I don't think CK will be the future of this offense because I don't think the pocket nature of the offense and the types of throws demanded is best suited for him, but he is getting a chance to prove himself.

Good post as always TC..

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

This is what I will say.

From my observations of OTAs etc so far, Case Keenum is getting more than a fair shot for someone who was once a UDFA and the previous coach's pet project.

O'Brien told me that they are trying to equalize reps right now until they get to the point they need to increase the reps for the person who needs to prepare to start.

That the competition is wide open. I'm unsure how wide open it really is in terms of talent/ability, but what I can tell is rep wise, Case Keenum is getting a ton of work. He is getting a very fair shot with the work he is getting.

It is in the coach's best interest to put the guy on the field who he thinks is best for the team. So lots of tire kicking is going on.

What happened in the past, or college or whatever, that is just a waste of typing.

New system. New requirements of what you need for quarterback. Lots of demands on the quarterback's ability to change plays.

If I were guessing right this second, I don't think CK will be the future of this offense because I don't think the pocket nature of the offense and the types of throws demanded is best suited for him, but he is getting a chance to prove himself.

I know I'm just an echo here, but great post as always!

 

[Double Barrel]

This is what I will say.

From my observations of OTAs etc so far, Case Keenum is getting more than a fair shot for someone who was once a UDFA and the previous coach's pet project.

O'Brien told me that they are trying to equalize reps right now until they get to the point they need to increase the reps for the person who needs to prepare to start.

That the competition is wide open. I'm unsure how wide open it really is in terms of talent/ability, but what I can tell is rep wise, Case Keenum is getting a ton of work. He is getting a very fair shot with the work he is getting.

It is in the coach's best interest to put the guy on the field who he thinks is best for the team. So lots of tire kicking is going on.

What happened in the past, or college or whatever, that is just a waste of typing.

New system. New requirements of what you need for quarterback. Lots of demands on the quarterback's ability to change plays.

If I were guessing right this second, I don't think CK will be the future of this offense because I don't think the pocket nature of the offense and the types of throws demanded is best suited for him, but he is getting a chance to prove himself.

Now Texans Chick, what the heck are you doing posting such a well reasoned and objective take like this in such a reactionary thread?

Good stuff, as always! MSR

 

[76Texan]

Unless O'Brien changes drastically from his days in NE and Penn St., it will be a mix of shotguns and under center.

But that matters little if at all.
I remember at least 3 TDs Keenum threw to AJ from under center and one to Graham.

And Graham actually saw a few more balls with Keenum than with Schaub.

Keenum had a lot of freedom in college at the LOS to call and change plays and he's very used to running an offense at breakneck pace.

And how about that TD to AJ when Keenum faked like he wanted the guys to line up so he an spike the ball, but instead he threw the ball to AJ for a TD?

 

[Lord Bills]

This is what I will say.

From my observations of OTAs etc so far, Case Keenum is getting more than a fair shot for someone who was once a UDFA and the previous coach's pet project.

O'Brien told me that they are trying to equalize reps right now until they get to the point they need to increase the reps for the person who needs to prepare to start.

That the competition is wide open. I'm unsure how wide open it really is in terms of talent/ability, but what I can tell is rep wise, Case Keenum is getting a ton of work. He is getting a very fair shot with the work he is getting.

It is in the coach's best interest to put the guy on the field who he thinks is best for the team. So lots of tire kicking is going on.

What happened in the past, or college or whatever, that is just a waste of typing.

New system. New requirements of what you need for quarterback. Lots of demands on the quarterback's ability to change plays.

If I were guessing right this second, I don't think CK will be the future of this offense because I don't think the pocket nature of the offense and the types of throws demanded is best suited for him, but he is getting a chance to prove himself.

that's all anybody ever wanted.

if keenum makes the team and becomes starter,

then that would only make Gary Kubiak LOOK EVEN WORSE.

It will make his attachment and love for schaub all the more eerily sad, frightening, and downright creepy.

 

[76Texan]

Here's a look at the offensive lines pass-pro numbers.
http://mmqb.si.com/2013/12/19/robert-quinn-pressure-points/

This is up to the last game Keenum played.

Before he started, the Texans were ahead of 11 teams in pass pro.
By the end of the Colts second game, they were ahead of just 5 teams.

Also, note the number of pass plays.
Since the Texans had to rely on the passing game a lot more than the other five teams, the total number of sacks and QB disruptions allowed were the most in the league.

 

[humblegeo]

Extended Cut: Case Keenum. Guess they decided to go ahead a cut him after all. Might as well. We saw what he could do last year. No Me Gusta!

 

[drs23]

Good post, TC. Thanks!

I don't care who starts the season at QB. I'm pulling for the coaching staff to make the right decision on who starts, rather than pulling for a particular player.

BINGO!

& Ditto...

 

[infantrycak]

if keenum makes the team and becomes starter,

then that would only make Gary Kubiak LOOK EVEN WORSE.

It will make his attachment and love for schaub all the more eerily sad, frightening, and downright creepy.

How's that work? Keenum was Kubiak's hand spotted guy who he was leap frogging over Yates. Keenum starting wouldn't prove Kubiak did anything wrong last year.

 

[thunderkyss]

This is what I will say.

It is in the coach's best interest to put the guy on the field who he thinks is best for the team.

If I were guessing right this second, I don't think CK will be the future of this offense because I don't think the pocket nature of the offense and the types of throws demanded is best suited for him, but he is getting a chance to prove himself.

It wouldn't bother me if Case was not the right guy. However, just to get this out there. "We all" expect Romeo Crennel to adjust his defense to take advantage of the talent he has available. We speculated about how he'll have to adjust from his two gap scheme to accomodate Jj Watt. Then we speculated how he'll have to adjust his LB coverage responsibilities to accomodate JaDevean Clowney.

1st round picks & all that, but OB had a hand in the QB situation we are in now. That the four guys we have competing are the four guys we've got competing... he had a lot to do with this situation. If in fact Keenum does win the starting job & this system is not "suited" for his style of play, I'd expect OB to make adjustments to maximize what Keenum does bring to the table.

I don't think Keenum is particularly athletic, the only issue with being a straight pocket passer is that he's a couple inches shorter than ideal. Three to four inches shorter than ideal. To me that just means the tackles are going to have to keep their arcs wider allowing Case to move left to right to find passing lanes. Maybe work in plays where we move the pocket a little more frequently. But not a big deal.

 

[76Texan]

It wouldn't bother me if Case was not the right guy. However, just to get this out there. "We all" expect Romeo Crennel to adjust his defense to take advantage of the talent he has available. We speculated about how he'll have to adjust from his two gap scheme to accomodate Jj Watt. Then we speculated how he'll have to adjust his LB coverage responsibilities to accomodate JaDevean Clowney.

1st round picks & all that, but OB had a hand in the QB situation we are in now. That the four guys we have competing are the four guys we've got competing... he had a lot to do with this situation. If in fact Keenum does win the starting job & this system is not "suited" for his style of play, I'd expect OB to make adjustments to maximize what Keenum does bring to the table.

I don't think Keenum is particularly athletic, the only issue with being a straight pocket passer is that he's a couple inches shorter than ideal. Three to four inches shorter than ideal. To me that just means the tackles are going to have to keep their arcs wider allowing Case to move left to right to find passing lanes. Maybe work in plays where we move the pocket a little more frequently. But not a big deal.

Matt Mcgloin ran OB's offense in Penn St. Just fine.
He' 3/8 of an inch taller than Keenum.

Wilson ran the Seahawks offense just fine at 5'11.
Plenty from under center.

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2012/9/28...-offensive-scheme-philosophy-and-conservative

During his early years in college, Keenum played about 1/3 of his snaps from under center against stout defenses like Alabama and Oregon just fine.
He did very well, in fact, against those superior teams.

 

[Vance87]

Oakland Raiders QB Matt Schaub is excited to have more control of the offense in Oakland. "To come to an offense where the coach is looking to give you more freedom, and looking to give you more control of things," Schaub said. "I had that in some aspects in Houston, but there are things I'm being asked to do here that I didn't have control of in Houston. I would have loved to, but we just weren't in control of it. To now be in that position, and being the quarterback, that's such a great place to be because you can get everyone on the same page."

Knowing this, it makes you wonder how much control Keenum had at the LOS, to change plays in order to pick up blitzes, etc. If I am remembering right, he seemed to do fairly well in hurry-up mode.

 

[badboy]

When Keenum came into game the team seemed to pick up his "vibe". I hope to see that again.

 

[dalemurphy]

Here's a look at the offensive lines pass-pro numbers.
http://mmqb.si.com/2013/12/19/robert-quinn-pressure-points/

This is up to the last game Keenum played.

Before he started, the Texans were ahead of 11 teams in pass pro.
By the end of the Colts second game, they were ahead of just 5 teams.

Also, note the number of pass plays.
Since the Texans had to rely on the passing game a lot more than the other five teams, the total number of sacks and QB disruptions allowed were the most in the league.

Every QB can make plays at this level. Consistency is the issue. Keenum was fun to watch and did some good things last year. However, his body of work does not earn him this year's job... As Stephanie said, the good news is that he has an open opportunity to impress this staff and earn his spot on the roster and the depth chart. We will see... For me, I am excited that we have 4 guys competing for the job, instead of it being handed to someone. It makes things interesting.

 

[thunderkyss]

Matt Mcgloin ran OB's offense in Penn St. Just fine.
He' 3/8 of an inch taller than Keenum.

Is this because I said Case is short? Are you short? It's not meant as an insult. It's just an observation. Short QBs have been successful in the NFL. I don't deny that. Noodle armed QBs have been successful in the NFL. Dumb QBs have had success in the NFL.

It's just another thing the QB has to compensate for one way or another. FYI, because a short guy played in a particular offense in college doesn't mean a short guy can be successful in the pros. For all I know (& I'm sure you'll prove me wrong with the stats) the Nittany Lions OL is shorter than the Texans line.

Wilson ran the Seahawks offense just fine at 5'11.
Plenty from under center.

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2012/9/28...-offensive-scheme-philosophy-and-conservative

During his early years in college, Keenum played about 1/3 of his snaps from under center against stout defenses like Alabama and Oregon just fine.
He did very well, in fact, against those superior teams.

Doesn't matter. Not one bit. I saw Case play from under center last season. Lateral movement was necessary for him to find passing lanes.

Again, It's no insult to say a dead man is dead.

 

[badboy]

Is this because I said Case is short? Are you short? It's not meant as an insult. It's just an observation. Short QBs have been successful in the NFL. I don't deny that. Noodle armed QBs have been successful in the NFL. Dumb QBs have had success in the NFL.

It's just another thing the QB has to compensate for one way or another. FYI, because a short guy played in a particular offense in college doesn't mean a short guy can be successful in the pros. For all I know (& I'm sure you'll prove me wrong with the stats) the Nittany Lions OL is shorter than the Texans line.



Doesn't matter. Not one bit. I saw Case play from under center last season. Lateral movement was necessary for him to find passing lanes.

Again, It's no insult to say a dead man is dead.

Still could prove embarassing.. signed Lazarus

 

[thunderkyss]

Knowing this, it makes you wonder how much control Keenum had at the LOS, to change plays in order to pick up blitzes, etc. If I am remembering right, he seemed to do fairly well in hurry-up mode.

As far as I can tell, Schaub is talking about setting protections. That's pretty much the only "control" he didn't have that meant anything. Remember, it was just the year before last that we had a top ten offense in rushing, passing, & scoring.

 

[Vance87]

As far as I can tell, Schaub is talking about setting protections. That's pretty much the only "control" he didn't have that meant anything. Remember, it was just the year before last that we had a top ten offense in rushing, passing, & scoring.

Setting protections for a blitz...one of the things I was referring to

 

[leebigeztx]

Here's a look at the offensive lines pass-pro numbers.
http://mmqb.si.com/2013/12/19/robert-quinn-pressure-points/

This is up to the last game Keenum played.

Before he started, the Texans were ahead of 11 teams in pass pro.
By the end of the Colts second game, they were ahead of just 5 teams.

Also, note the number of pass plays.
Since the Texans had to rely on the passing game a lot more than the other five teams, the total number of sacks and QB disruptions allowed were the most in the league.

The problem with your assumption is the pass pro was bad,but it wasn't the decision maker. Pryor was sacked at david carr esque levels,but mcgloin was sacked at manning-esqu level. Does that mean the raiders blocked better for mcgloin than pryor? Nope. It means the guy tking the snaps makes the better,quicker decisions. Once teams had the game tape on keenum and figured his pressure points,they knew what they could do to him. CK couldn't adjust,ran backwards,got sacked for huge losses and didn't win a game.Could he do better? Hopefully,but to say its the line when we've seen guys play well with great or even good line play.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

The problem with your assumption is the pass pro was bad,but it wasn't the decision maker. Pryor was sacked at david carr esque levels,but mcgloin was sacked at manning-esqu level. Does that mean the raiders blocked better for mcgloin than pryor? Nope. It means the guy tking the snaps makes the better,quicker decisions. Once teams had the game tape on keenum and figured his pressure points,they knew what they could do to him. CK couldn't adjust,ran backwards,got sacked for huge losses and didn't win a game.Could he do better? Hopefully,but to say its the line when we've seen guys play well with great or even good line play.

You could definitely make the same case for teams having game tape on the rest of the team and figuring out how to attack their myriad of progressive deterioration.............a Wade Smith who had to be baby sat by Brown, a cripple at RT, a newbie at RG, a decimation of the the RB and TE corp, a #2 receiver that made enough rookie mistakes of his own and played injured most of the last couple of months of the season, a game plan on both sides of the ball that remained stale and predictable, and showed no significant attempts for adjustment to problems opposing teams presented, a punter that even I had to turn away from anytime he attempted a FG (no matter how short), and lastly a D that more resembled a cast from The Walking Dead. But besides that, there is no doubt in my mind it was on Case.

 

[thunderkyss]

You could definitely make the same case for teams having game tape on the rest of the team and figuring out how to attack their myriad of progressive deterioration.............

Except when Schaub & Tj was in the game, they were able to move that same team up & down the field between the 20s like it was nobodies business. Case couldn't even get into striking range in the 2nd half.

Schaub even came in the same game & moved the ball down field, with ease.

I thought we should give the ball to Schaub/Yates between the 20s, but put Case in the game in the red zone. or at least when we crossed the 30.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

Except when Schaub & Tj was in the game, they were able to move that same team up & down the field between the 20s like it was nobodies business. Case couldn't even get into striking range in the 2nd half.

Schaub even came in the same game & moved the ball down field, with ease.

I thought we should give the ball to Schaub/Yates between the 20s, but put Case in the game in the red zone. or at least when we crossed the 30.

The way I saw it was that TJ came in for week 5 and 6 when the O was pretty much intact ( and he still managed to throw 2 INTs with O TDs and went nowhere). And when Schaub came in for Keenum, the play-calling seemed to take a dramatic change..and still he managed 5 INTs, several sacks and a pathetic QB rating in those last 3 games.

 

[EllisUnit]

The way I saw it was that TJ came in for week 5 and 6 when the O was pretty much intact ( and he still managed to throw 2 INTs with O TDs and went nowhere). And when Schaub came in for Keenum, the play-calling seemed to take a dramatic change..and still he managed 5 INTs, several sacks and a pathetic QB rating in those last 3 games.

I agree with this, the play calling was not at all equal between the 3. So hard to compare really. When Schaub was in Gary opened the whole play book, when TJ and Case were in he had about 5 plays he would call it seemed.

 

[drs23]

You could definitely make the same case for teams having game tape on the rest of the team and figuring out how to attack their myriad of progressive deterioration.............a Wade Smith who had to be baby sat by Brown, a cripple at RT, a newbie at RG, a decimation of the the RB and TE corp, a #2 receiver that made enough rookie mistakes of his own and played injured most of the last couple of months of the season, a game plan on both sides of the ball that remained stale and predictable, and showed no significant attempts for adjustment to problems opposing teams presented, a punter that even I had to turn away from anytime he attempted a FG (no matter how short), and lastly a D that more resembled a cast from The Walking Dead. But besides that, there is no doubt in my mind it was on Case.

and spot on Doc. I can get on board with everything you said here except the "punter that even I had to turn away from anytime he attempted a FG" part. I actually think Lechler could have done just as well or better.

Joking aside, this is what I'd like to respond to :"a Wade Smith who had to be baby sat by Brown, a cripple at RT, a newbie at RG"

Especially the bolded. It was discussed time and again that Brown's play was compromised by his toe injury and I'm very sure that played a large part in his play declining last year but many times you could actually see him leaving his man early to pick up a rusher freed up by a whiff on Wade Smith's part. Smith was absolutely terrible last season. As to the bolded. Newton played hurt all season and never really got into 'game shape' I don't believe. What little has been said about him this season has ALL been POSITIVE as far as what I've read and heard from the coaching staff. He's healthy for the first time in a long time, he came into camp in great shape, lost fat and added muscle and is moving much better.

I'm more than likely all alone in this but I hope Newton can get his playbook down and show us what the last staff thought they saw in him. I know Q is right there waiting in the wings so the best man will get the job and it's exciting knowing it won't be just handed to Newt because his name is first on the depth chart.

I'm excited to see how everything works out.

 

[steelbtexan]

and spot on Doc. I can get on board with everything you said here except the "punter that even I had to turn away from anytime he attempted a FG" part. I actually think Lechler could have done just as well or better.

Joking aside, this is what I'd like to respond to :"a Wade Smith who had to be baby sat by Brown, a cripple at RT, a newbie at RG"

Especially the bolded. It was discussed time and again that Brown's play was compromised by his toe injury and I'm very sure that played a large part in his play declining last year but many times you could actually see him leaving his man early to pick up a rusher freed up by a whiff on Wade Smith's part. Smith was absolutely terrible last season. As to the bolded. Newton played hurt all season and never really got into 'game shape' I don't believe. What little has been said about him this season has ALL been POSITIVE as far as what I've read and heard from the coaching staff. He's healthy for the first time in a long time, he came into camp in great shape, lost fat and added muscle and is moving much better.

I'm more than likely all alone in this but I hope Newton can get his playbook down and show us what the last staff thought they saw in him. I know Q is right there waiting in the wings so the best man will get the job and it's exciting knowing it won't be just handed to Newt because his name is first on the depth chart.

I'm excited to see how everything works out.

Great Post.

I haven't given up on Newton either. Much like the QB position I hope the RT position is an open competition and may the best man win.

 

[drs23]

Great Post.

I haven't given up on Newton either. Much like the QB position I hope the RT position is an open competition and may the best man win.

Exactly and I believe that's what we'll see. I'm looking forward to seeing how this all plays out just like everyone else.

 

[thunderkyss]

The way I saw it was that TJ came in for week 5 and 6 when the O was pretty much intact ( and he still managed to throw 2 INTs with O TDs and went nowhere). And when Schaub came in for Keenum, the play-calling seemed to take a dramatic change..and still he managed 5 INTs, several sacks and a pathetic QB rating in those last 3 games.

No, that's pretty much the way it went, except that Case made his share of mistakes as well. Schaub made mistakes, but moved the ball. Tj made mistakes but moved the ball. Case made mistakes.

You're not going to get me to defend Tj & Matt like they deserve to start, they don't. But that's not the point.

Play calling dramatically changed, lol... yeah like they started to call plays where receivers got open in time & hot routes replaced the blitzer... no, same plays. One guy knew the plays like the back of his hand, the other guy didn't.

 

[Playoffs]

chron.com

 

[Playoffs]

James Palmer ‏@JPalmerCSN

Case Keenum said he's seen improvement in Tom Savage. But said calling plays is tough in the NFL. #Texans

Case Keenum said he might call Andre Johnson to get out and throw together during this 4 week break. Said Dre makes him a better player.

Dave Zangaro ‏@DZangaro

Keenum said he pinpointed his decision-making as something he needed to improve from last year. #Texans

Case Keenum said he'll call some guys to throw to in the next four weeks. Will he call Andre? "I might," he said smiling. #Texans

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

For those hoping for Hoyer to displace Keenum from the roster through a trade. Doesn't look like it's going to happen.

The Browns want to sign quarterback Brian Hoyer to an extension. Hoyer’s agent, Joe Linta, believes it’s too early to figure out Hoyer’s value.

So when will the time be right to work something out? Linta tells PFT via email that two future dates loom for assessing his value: November 1 and the end of the season.

Implied in that position is that Hoyer, who enters the final year of his current deal, won’t be inclined to agree to a new contract before November 1. Of course, that doesn’t stop the Browns from making a bird-in-the-hand offer that Hoyer will have a hard time rejecting, especially as he continues to recover from a torn ACL. Despite any reluctance to do a deal prematurely, there’s surely a number that would get Hoyer’s attention.

Ultimately, the question is whether the Browns view Hoyer as a potential starter or as the Kirk Cousins-style understudy to a young, mobile quarterback who may get injured sooner than later. The decision to trade from No. 26 to No. 22 to get Johnny Manziel strongly suggests that Manziel will be the starter at some point. So what will they pay for a guy who possibly will be the stop-gap starter to begin the season and the break-glass option in the event that Manziel breaks something once he gets the job?

Whatever the Browns envision, if they choose to put their best deal on the table now, Hoyer possibly will take it after weighing the pros and cons and realizing that the two in the bush may not be all that easy to catch.

If Hoyer ends up starting for the entire season and playing well enough to keep Manziel on the bench, it could be very difficult to keep Hoyer beyond 2014, since someone else in a quarterback-starved league will take notice of Hoyer’s performance and dangle the kind of money that suggests he’ll compete to be the starter in a new city.

link

 

[badboy]

For those hoping for Hoyer to displace Keenum from the roster through a trade. Doesn't look like it's going to happen.

link

Doc I am mentally exhausted but I read this as he should be traded now to get something for him UNLESS team thinks he will keep Manziel on bench. I just don't see him getting huge deal to remain in that town. Also don't see him wanting a first round, fan fav breathing down his neck.